Difference in HVAC w/local and express buses

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There seems to be differences in the HVAC system between local and express buses... For example, no matter how cold it is outside, express buses generally don't have heat on them while local buses do and I'm wondering what are the reasons for this? I heard years ago that the MCIs have a switch or something that only allows for hot air or cold air and I'm wondering how true this is considering how advanced these buses should be and how expensive they are....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There seems to be differences in the HVAC system between local and express buses... For example, no matter how cold it is outside, express buses generally don't have heat on them while local buses do and I'm wondering what are the reasons for this? I heard years ago that the MCIs have a switch or something that only allows for hot air or cold air and I'm wondering how true this is considering how advanced these buses should be and how expensive they are....

[Turbo19]

Alright, let's keep this thread open.

 

For most newer local transit buses, the HVAC is activated by a preset climate control which is generally kept in range around the lower 70ºF's. For the older transit buses, the HVAC is operator controlled. The options are heating, cooling, and ventilation with the settings at high or low. For the motorcoaches it works similar as the HVAC system is operator controlled with roughly the same settings.

 

If you tend to notice a difference of interior temprature between transit buses and motorcoaches, it could also be they way the interior is set up. On transit buses, the hot or cool air tends to distribute evenly among the vehicle as the vents are among the open bulkhead, thus consistantly providing an even coverage.

 

On the motorcoaches, the hot or cold air isn't as easily distributed due to the luggage racks being at the very top of the bulkhead. That as well as the heat or air from a seat row's personal vents being contained within that seat row rather than covering the entire bus.

 

I hope that provided a better understanding in regard to vehicle and system specifics.

[error46146]

Perhaps because the coach buses are more insulated than the regular buses and the windows don't open on them.. if you had the heat on blast it would get too hot..

 

When I was travelling by bus coming home from Toronto, the first bus we got had weak a/c (before it completely broke down).. people were complaining non stop and that bus didn't smell too good either.. good thing I was sitting right next to the a/c vent

 

Honestly I'd rather ride in a cold bus and keep my coat on than in a hot smelly bus..

[Quill Depot]

You posted 2 threads...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Perhaps because the coach buses are more insulated than the regular buses and the windows don't open on them.. if you had the heat on blast it would get too hot..

 

When I was travelling by bus coming home from Toronto, the first bus we got had weak a/c (before it completely broke down).. people were complaining non stop and that bus didn't smell too good either.. good thing I was sitting right next to the a/c vent

 

Honestly I'd rather ride in a cold bus and keep my coat on than in a hot smelly bus..

lol.... This is true... I'm wondering because some express buses I get on seem to actually have both (some form of heat and air circulating like this morning), but sometimes it's just cold air blasting. I've also noticed on some buses that the front of express bus has heat, but the back just has cold air coming out.  It's pretty strange nevertheless.  The local buses generally have the heat pumping when it's cold though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You posted 2 threads...

I don't know how that happened because I specifically recall posting in one thread (bus section)... Very strange...  Hopefully a mod can merge the two threads... 

 

Alright, let's keep this thread open.

 

For most newer local transit buses, the HVAC is activated by a preset climate control which is generally kept in range around the lower 70ºF's. For the older transit buses, the HVAC is operator controlled. The options are heating, cooling, and ventilation with the settings at high or low. For the motorcoaches it works similar as the HVAC system is operator controlled with roughly the same settings.

 

If you tend to notice a difference of interior temprature between transit buses and motorcoaches, it could also be they way the interior is set up. On transit buses, the hot or cool air tends to distribute evenly among the vehicle as the vents are among the open bulkhead, thus consistantly providing an even coverage.

 

On the motorcoaches, the hot or cold air isn't as easily distributed due to the luggage racks being at the very top of the bulkhead. That as well as the heat or air from a seat row's personal vents being contained within that seat row rather than covering the entire bus.

 

I hope that provided a better understanding in regard to vehicle and system specifics.

So in other words if the overhead racks weren't there then the heating distribution could/would be different??

[Turbo19]

Well who was the smart one that clearly neglected the thread with the reply? And who was the smart one that posted two threads to begin with?

 

Now I won't name anyone but still, come on it's not that difficult.

[IronboundNJT]

There seems to be differences in the HVAC system between local and express buses... For example, no matter how cold it is outside, express buses generally don't have heat on them while local buses do and I'm wondering what are the reasons for this? I heard years ago that the MCIs have a switch or something that only allows for hot air or cold air and I'm wondering how true this is considering how advanced these buses should be and how expensive they are....

Driving the nj transit mic there is the typical on/off switch then behind our left foot is a handle pull up for heat push down for a/c and then the temp knob I've had that knob to the point where the bus should've felt like a sauna and it was still cold in there minus driver heat so I believe it's safe to say mcis come in warm and cold during summer and cold and freezing during winter

 

I've written all those buses up but seeing I don't get them back who knows if they get fixed

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Driving the nj transit mic there is the typical on/off switch then behind our left foot is a handle pull up for heat push down for a/c and then the temp knob I've had that knob to the point where the bus should've felt like a sauna and it was still cold in there minus driver heat so I believe it's safe to say mcis come in warm and cold during summer and cold and freezing during winter

I've noticed this as well... They're supposed to be pre-set but like you said a lot of them come freezing during the wintertime.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well who was the smart one that clearly neglected the thread with the reply? And who was the smart one that posted two threads to begin with?

 

Now I won't name anyone but still, come on it's not that difficult.

Seriously, I still don't know how that happened... I only posted this once in the bus thread and it came up once last night and now it shows up TWICE...   I think it's an error with the forum.  It has to be because both threads are posted at the exact same time in the exact same bus thread.

[Blitz]

Alright, let's keep this thread open.

 

For most newer local transit buses, the HVAC is activated by a preset climate control which is generally kept in range around the lower 70ºF's. For the older transit buses, the HVAC is operator controlled. The options are heating, cooling, and ventilation with the settings at high or low. For the motorcoaches it works similar as the HVAC system is operator controlled with roughly the same settings.

 

If you tend to notice a difference of interior temprature between transit buses and motorcoaches, it could also be they way the interior is set up. On transit buses, the hot or cool air tends to distribute evenly among the vehicle as the vents are among the open bulkhead, thus consistantly providing an even coverage.

 

On the motorcoaches, the hot or cold air isn't as easily distributed due to the luggage racks being at the very top of the bulkhead. That as well as the heat or air from a seat row's personal vents being contained within that seat row rather than covering the entire bus.

 

I hope that provided a better understanding in regard to vehicle and system specifics.

I cant speak for museum buses, but all revenue service transit buses, old or new, have preset climate control on/off switches. They are suppose to be on at all times, and they are suppose to regulate the temperature without driver interaction. The hot, cold, and ventilation switches you might see when you peek into the drivers compartment are to control the drivers compartment temperature and the windshield defroster/defogger. Now, as far as the difference between local and express bus HVAC, I believe the blowers (hot and cold) are turned to a higher level to compensate for the 2 doors that are constantly being opened and closed. Not sure if this is done on express buses as well (I've only worked on express bus engines).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I cant speak for museum buses, but all revenue service transit buses, old or new, have preset climate control on/off switches. They are suppose to be on at all times, and they are suppose to regulate the temperature without driver interaction. The hot, cold, and ventilation switches you might see when you peek into the drivers compartment are to control the drivers compartment temperature and the windshield defroster/defogger. Now, as far as the difference between local and express bus HVAC, I believe the blowers (hot and cold) are turned to a higher level to compensate for the 2 doors that are constantly being opened and closed. Not sure if this is done on express buses as well (I've only worked on express bus engines).

But how would you explain the front of the express bus being warm and the back being freezing?

[Blitz]

 

But how would you explain the front of the express bus being warm and the back being freezing?

Once again, I don't really work on express buses, but from a logical standpoint that is confusing. Usually, on local buses, it's the other way around. Maybe the heater cores are placed in different positions in express buses.

[Turbo19]

So in other words if the overhead racks weren't there then the heating distribution could/would be different??

Damn, I neglected to answer your question.

 

Well I would believe so as there is a much clearer space within the interior.

 

 

 

I cant speak for museum buses, but all revenue service transit buses, old or new, have preset climate control on/off switches. They are suppose to be on at all times, and they are suppose to regulate the temperature without driver interaction. The hot, cold, and ventilation switches you might see when you peek into the drivers compartment are to control the drivers compartment temperature and the windshield defroster/defogger. Now, as far as the difference between local and express bus HVAC, I believe the blowers (hot and cold) are turned to a higher level to compensate for the 2 doors that are constantly being opened and closed. Not sure if this is done on express buses as well (I've only worked on express bus engines).

Thanks as I was under the impression that a different sysem was used.

[QM1to6Ave]

I can't say that I've ever noticed such temperature differences on MCIs in the winter. In the summer, there are occasionally buses where the only air is what comes out of the personal vents, and that is basically room temperature. In winter, I have seen the personal vents blow fairly cold air while the vents next to the window throw out hot air. But overall, I'm pretty much always comfortable on MCIs

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I can't say that I've ever noticed such temperature differences on MCIs in the winter. In the summer, there are occasionally buses where the only air is what comes out of the personal vents, and that is basically room temperature. In winter, I have seen the personal vents blow fairly cold air while the vents next to the window throw out hot air. But overall, I'm pretty much always comfortable on MCIs

lol... Staten Island express buses back in the old days were something... I've experienced buses where were literally cooking inside on how summer days due to no A/C (luckily those days seem to be gone now with the newer MCIs and the Prevosts) to freezing and I mean literally freezing to the point of needing gloves and your coat on because the AC was cranked up so high that the B/O just had to shut it off in order to get an normal temperature...

[QM1to6Ave]

lol... Staten Island express buses back in the old days were something... I've experienced buses where were literally cooking inside on how summer days due to no A/C (luckily those days seem to be gone now with the newer MCIs and the Prevosts) to freezing and I mean literally freezing to the point of needing gloves and your coat on because the AC was cranked up so high that the B/O just had to shut it off in order to get an normal temperature...

 

That reminds me, I've got to try out those Prevosts one day to see how they compare to the MCI's. I have no need to go to SI, so I never take them. Maybe over my vacation week in the summer I'll find an excuse to head out there. 

[CDTA]

Every MCI/Van Hool that's not a J4500 that iv'e been on has really crappy A/C. Those J4500's are something else though. Iv'e noticed generally the Prevost's are too cold most of the time. (Or too hot, can't remember)

[BZGuy]

lol.... This is true... I'm wondering because some express buses I get on seem to actually have both (some form of heat and air circulating like this morning), but sometimes it's just cold air blasting. I've also noticed on some buses that the front of express bus has heat, but the back just has cold air coming out.  It's pretty strange nevertheless.  The local buses generally have the heat pumping when it's cold though.

 

The MCIs have different HVAC controls for the drivers area and passenger area.

 

The drivers area has two "T" handles, one controls the amount of heat or A/C you want and the other is to open/close the fresh air vent which blows fresh air though the defroster vents.

 

The passenger area is controlled by a switch. On some MCIs you can control the actual temperature but the TA didn't go for that option so the mechanics set the temp and that's what it's suppose to stay at. That's one of the big reasons why the drivers at NJT Howell garage dislike driving the ex-TA cruisers because they have no control over the temp.

 

The MCIs can be drafty depending on a bunch of factors. Misaligned service doors, windows not sealed right and the insulation taken out of the front end is the biggest 3 causes. There are other things....like if the driver has the drivers blower/defroster on and the shades up the air will hit those 1st 4 rows. Another thing is the lack of an "Aux Heater" in the transit spec D4500s. The older Ds are notorious for taking 1+ hours to fully warm up and kick out heat......added to the fact that some of the buses are parked outside overnight and are cold soaked doesn't help. Also one thing I've learned that if a bus is low on coolant you will get little or no heat whatsoever.

 

I doubt the TA teaches the drivers what to look for and troubleshoot the HVAC system...sometimes just a simple reboot by turning off the batteries will suffice. They want drones who have to call in everything, so that's why you folks are riding around in cold or super hot buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

The MCIs have different HVAC controls for the drivers area and passenger area.

 

The drivers area has two "T" handles, one controls the amount of heat or A/C you want and the other is to open/close the fresh air vent which blows fresh air though the defroster vents.

 

The passenger area is controlled by a switch. On some MCIs you can control the actual temperature but the TA didn't go for that option so the mechanics set the temp and that's what it's suppose to stay at. That's one of the big reasons why the drivers at NJT Howell garage dislike driving the ex-TA cruisers because they have no control over the temp.

 

The MCIs can be drafty depending on a bunch of factors. Misaligned service doors, windows not sealed right and the insulation taken out of the front end is the biggest 3 causes. There are other things....like if the driver has the drivers blower/defroster on and the shades up the air will hit those 1st 4 rows. Another thing is the lack of an "Aux Heater" in the transit spec D4500s. The older Ds are notorious for taking 1+ hours to fully warm up and kick out heat......added to the fact that some of the buses are parked outside overnight and are cold soaked doesn't help. Also one thing I've learned that if a bus is low on coolant you will get little or no heat whatsoever.

 

I doubt the TA teaches the drivers what to look for and troubleshoot the HVAC system...sometimes just a simple reboot by turning off the batteries will suffice. They want drones who have to call in everything, so that's why you folks are riding around in cold or super hot buses.

Yeah, I've experienced some of the things that you've mentioned in the past and I had also heard of just that switch for controlling the HVAC for the passenger area and the separate one for the B/Os.  Now what I have noticed is that the temperature climate was a huge issue on the older MCIs, but now that Staten Island has newer MCIs and I use the newer MCIs on the Riverdale lines or the BM or QM buses, I pretty much get the usual climate control, which is mainly air blowing out, but usually no heat, no matter how cold it is outside, which is fine by me since I hate being on really hot stuff buses with no air.  I just throw my coat over myself and go to sleep.  The one thing I'm always puzzled by is sometimes I'll close all of the overhead vents if the bus is cool enough and there is air coming from the side vents, but then I will feel air still blowing from above somewhere which puzzles me.  I know for sure that those vents near the floor blow out air on occasion but I can't figure out where the air above comes from if the overhead vents are closed??  Those big ventilation machines I see in the overhead racks near the middle of the bus seem to produce some sort of air as well...

[BZGuy]

Air will still come out of the parcel rack blowers even if you close the overheard vents.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Air will still come out of the parcel rack blowers even if you close the overheard vents.

That much I figured since I've felt the air from them coming by but I'm surprised at how much cold air they give off...

[User]

I've never ridden an express bus, so I can't say much for them. But for local buses, the climate control air is usually blasting because it usually all goes out the back door. On an express bus, its different, but you should still be able to feel the air.

 

You posted 2 threads...

I merged them.

[Amtrak7]

Most buses (local) that I've ridden, both MTA and NICE, are uncomfortably hot in the winter.