Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #51 Posted February 20, 2013 Sure you do... It's all over your rebuttals in this back & forth thus far.... As far as not riding any locals at all; well that's easy to bring up when you know you can't ride express buses within boroughs like that, so that's a weak counter-argument in & of itself.... Don't front like you wouldn't take some express bus within boroughs if you could... Remember, "paying for business class and sitting in the economy section"..... ....and why are you bringing up folks that can't control themselves in public settings anyway? Better yet, resorting to telling me that those types exist everywhere - but also stating that there's fewer of them on expresses? You're making this too easy right now..... That, and the same masses of people that take subways are the same masses of ppl. that come off local buses, so that retort doesn't make any sense anyway.... I didn't notice that edit of his post, but thanks for calling that out..... He's trying to make this about me when it's clearly about him.... Really... So what do you call riding multiple local buses to avoid the subway or even walking??? Hell you said it yourself that you didn't feel like dealing with the subway... There's a word for that you know and it starts with an "h"... If I was truly trying to avoid certain types of people I would be driving and not using any local buses or express buses for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 20, 2013 Share #52 Posted February 20, 2013 Really... So what do you call riding multiple local buses to avoid the subway or even walking??? Hell you said it yourself that you didn't feel like dealing with the subway... There's a word for that you know and it starts with an "h"... If I was truly trying to avoid certain types of people I would be driving and not using any local buses or express buses for that matter. What do I call it? I call it avoiding crowding on the subway, not to avoid types of people that ride them..... There is no hypocrisy in that whatsoever.... Don't try to equate the two reasons as being one in the same.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 20, 2013 Share #53 Posted February 20, 2013 lol... Well there are some Bronxites in here who travel about the borough, so surely they can give some sort of feedback. I think the Bronx may be similar to Brooklyn with the lack of crosstown service. The question is if any sort of crosstown service improvements necessary or would my hypothetical three bus trip be an irregular one... Lets see... B1, 3, 6, 8, 9, 12, 14, 25, 26, 35, 38, 45, 52, 54, 57, 65, 82... Nah, I think we got out bases covered out here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 20, 2013 Share #54 Posted February 20, 2013 Never belittle Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted February 20, 2013 Share #55 Posted February 20, 2013 As mark1447 mentioned with his listing, the Bronx has sufficient crosstown bus coverage. The buses may be crowded and unreliable but that's not a problem sustained to Bronx crosstowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #56 Posted February 20, 2013 Lets see... B1, 3, 6, 8, 9, 12, 14, 25, 26, 35, 38, 45, 52, 54, 57, 65, 82... Nah, I think we got out bases covered out here... I wouldn't call all of those buses "crosstown buses", esp. not the B6 or B8. What do I call it? I call it avoiding crowding on the subway, not to avoid types of people that ride them..... There is no hypocrisy in that whatsoever.... Don't try to equate the two reasons as being one in the same.... lol... Oh so that's why you take 3 or more buses... Just because of the crowding... Yeah right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #57 Posted February 20, 2013 Basically, for those who don't know, and are actually interested, it comes down to geography and the general layout of The Bronx. You have the Bronx River and Bronx Park seperating the eastern part of the borough from the western part. Basically, every street that crosses those points has a bus route over it (East 180th has the Q44, which doesn't really count, but it's a few blocks from Tremont Avenue) So now what are you supposed to do? Combine routes (for instance, the Bx11 & Bx5)? But then you're making the route too long for no reason. (That combo would be about 80-90 minutes long, which isn't the worst, but the ridership base is different, so there's no point). You could try routing a few more routes through those major east-west streets, but what routes is it really possible to do it with? Maybe the Bx10 could be extended across Bedford Park Blvd to White Plains Road, but then once again, you hit the issue of the route becoming too long (and with a route like the Bx10, it's infrequent, so it can't take a further hit to its reliability) If you look within the different subsections of The Bronx, though, it's relatively easy to go crosstown. I mean, in the South Bronx, you have crosstown routes on 138th, 149th, 161st, 167th, 170th, and so on. Of course, they meander a bit because of the hills (because as much as VG8 doesn't like it, Riverdale isn't the only Bronx neighborhood with hills. Most of the West Bronx is pretty hilly), but it's relatively easy. I mean, here in SI, it's a similar situation. We have a bunch of hills stretching from St. George down to around Great Kills or so (Grymes Hill, Emerson Hill, Todt Hill, Lighthouse Hill, etc), and combined with the Greenbelt, that effectively divides island into the East & West Shore. To get from say, Dongan Hills to Castleton Corners is pretty hard. So what do people do? They make do with the existing services that cross that "boundary" for lack of a better term. That's partially why the S53 is so well-used. Not only does it go to Brooklyn, but it's a way to get from the routes east of the hills and Greenbelt to those west of the hills and Greenbelt. For the rest, they try to avoid crossing that boundary where possible. For instance, if I have a choice to visit some kind of office in New Dorp or West Brighton, well, it's a lot easier to go to West Brighton office than the New Dorp location, because I don't have to cross that boundary. And so when you have boundaries that are that permenant (In The Bronx, it's a park and a river. In SI, it's hills and undeveloped land), people adjust. So that sort of trip, from Riverdale to Morris Park probably isn't that common, because for the transit-using people anyway, people up in Riverdale are going to try to go to places near their neighborhood, and the same for Morris Park. A senior in Riverdale would probably go to Montefiore Hospital, instead of one of those hospitals by Eastchester Road (I forget the name). Of course, if you pick any two neighborhoods, you're always going to find somebody making a trip between the two. But you can't serve every little trip, because then it wouldn't be mass transit. So those people are going to have to continue to make a couple of transfers, or just drive to whereever they're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 20, 2013 Share #58 Posted February 20, 2013 Oh so that's why you take 3 or more buses... Just because of the crowding... Yeah right... Yup, Just like you take express buses to get away from local bus riders - specifically those ghetto folks that take them. If it's "yeah right", then state my supposed reason then..... Stop speaking in absolutes & hiding behind smilies. You don't have a leg to stand on whatsoever in this back & forth, and the more you keep replying trying to make me look like some supposed hypocrite, the foolish you're making yourself look.... I'm not avoiding taking the subway for anything other than crowding during the rush hour... It's not my problem if you don't want to take local buses & take expresses instead because of the reasons you've stated in this thread, and others in the past..... "As for giving a sh*t about Bronx local buses, well of course I don't." Exactly.... That's the point.... So what are you going on & on about this for.... How is it that you're sitting up here feeling some type of way about someone calling you out on something... you later admit to. Why are you really asking about Bronx's lack of crosstowns & asking if there's really a need for more crosstown buses for, if you don't give a shit about them anyway & defiantly state that you will be using the express? It all goes back to that, as much as you wanna try to divert attention away from it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #59 Posted February 20, 2013 Yup, Just like you take express buses to get away from local bus riders - specifically those ghetto folks that take them. If it's "yeah right", then state my supposed reason then..... Stop speaking in absolutes & hiding behind smilies. You don't have a leg to stand on whatsoever in this back & forth, and the more you keep replying trying to make me look like some supposed hypocrite, the foolish you're making yourself look.... I'm not avoiding taking the subway for anything other than crowding during the rush hour... It's not my problem if you don't want to take local buses & take expresses instead because of the reasons you've stated in this thread, and others in the past..... "As for giving a sh*t about Bronx local buses, well of course I don't." Exactly.... That's the point.... So what are you going on & on about this for.... How is it that you're sitting up here feeling some type of way about someone calling you out on something... you later admit to. Why are you really asking about Bronx's lack of crosstowns & asking if there's really a need for more crosstown buses for, if you don't give a shit about them anyway & defiantly state that you will be using the express? It all goes back to that, as much as you wanna try to divert attention away from it..... Well I don't recall all of this about crowding before, but you can use that excuse now if it makes you feel better. To answer your question, why do I fight for any local bus routes when I don't use them primarily as I have in the past? Maybe because I support transportation for EVERYONE including the ghetto folks that I supposedly loathe so much?? Now I went and spoke about the providing an S53 limited stop bus even though I primarily used car service, so the idea of me being this elitist is total BS. I've fought for service restorations for several LOCAL bus routes and have went to several transportation hearings. I don't think you can say the same thing. If I was really this elitist I wouldn't have done any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 20, 2013 Share #60 Posted February 20, 2013 Well I don't recall all of this about crowding before, but you can use that excuse now if it makes you feel better. To answer your question, why do I fight for any local bus routes when I don't use them primarily as I have in the past? Maybe because I support transportation for EVERYONE?? Now I went and spoke about the providing an S53 limited stop bus even though I primarily used car service, so the idea of me being this elitist is total BS. I've fought for service restorations for several LOCAL bus routes and have went to several transportation hearings. I don't think you can say the same thing. Just like I thought, you don't have an answer.... Aint about feeling better because I never lied or portrayed otherwise on here to begin with... I don't care what you don't recall - You were simply talking out of your ass trying to convey there being some other ulterior motive or reasoning as to why I decided to take the express more.... Going to several transportation meetings? No I can't say the same thing, and I don't have a desire to either.... I don't have to have my voice heard by some suits for further validation of my interest & care about public transportation... I'd rather not get involved in the politics behind it all.... Hell, I'd question your motive for going to those things too; you care more about the areas certain bus routes travel through than the bus routes themselves.... Like you'd give a damn about the B4 if it didn't run in Sheepshead...... As far as you being "this elitist".... Seriously, Wake up... too many of your posts on here reek of elitism.... The fact that you continually refer to Riverdale as not being in the Bronx is a classic example of that - You aint above anyone else that lives in the Bx because you live in Riverdale... and I'm not referring to geography either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 20, 2013 Share #61 Posted February 20, 2013 Basically, for those who don't know, and are actually interested, it comes down to geography and the general layout of The Bronx. You have the Bronx River and Bronx Park seperating the eastern part of the borough from the western part. Basically, every street that crosses those points has a bus route over it (East 180th has the Q44, which doesn't really count, but it's a few blocks from Tremont Avenue) So now what are you supposed to do? Combine routes (for instance, the Bx11 & Bx5)? But then you're making the route too long for no reason. (That combo would be about 80-90 minutes long, which isn't the worst, but the ridership base is different, so there's no point). You could try routing a few more routes through those major east-west streets, but what routes is it really possible to do it with? Maybe the Bx10 could be extended across Bedford Park Blvd to White Plains Road, but then once again, you hit the issue of the route becoming too long (and with a route like the Bx10, it's infrequent, so it can't take a further hit to its reliability) If you look within the different subsections of The Bronx, though, it's relatively easy to go crosstown. I mean, in the South Bronx, you have crosstown routes on 138th, 149th, 161st, 167th, 170th, and so on. Of course, they meander a bit because of the hills (because as much as VG8 doesn't like it, Riverdale isn't the only Bronx neighborhood with hills. Most of the West Bronx is pretty hilly), but it's relatively easy. Goes back to a similar point I made earlier in this thread; the concentration of ridership in the bronx is moreso on the west side.... It isn't like manhattan (for example) where you have ppl. traveling easterly-westerly (and vice versa) like that, to the point where you need more crosstowns in the borough..... I personally don't think it's worth extending routes for the purpose of making them crosstowns or w/e... Outside of geographical reasons, demand comes into question as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 20, 2013 Share #62 Posted February 20, 2013 I wouldn't call all of those buses "crosstown buses", esp. not the B6 or B8. lol... Oh so that's why you take 3 or more buses... Just because of the crowding... Yeah right... I'm pretty sure they both count... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #63 Posted February 20, 2013 Not trying to add to the bullshit, but if the dude already has his plans, the reality is you can't persuade him different. If a member offers faster alternatives and he decides against it, it's his time wasted. Not mine, not yours. I'm sure everyone has their way of traveling, but if he has his mindset, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #64 Posted February 20, 2013 Just like I thought, you don't have an answer.... Aint about feeling better because I never lied or portrayed otherwise on here to begin with... I don't care what you don't recall - You were simply talking out of your ass trying to convey there being some other ulterior motive or reasoning as to why I decided to take the express more.... Going to several transportation meetings? No I can't say the same thing, and I don't have a desire to either.... I don't have to have my voice heard by some suits for further validation of my interest & care about public transportation... I'd rather not get involved in the politics behind it all.... Hell, I'd question your motive for going to those things too; you care more about the areas certain bus routes travel through than the bus routes themselves.... Like you'd give a damn about the B4 if it didn't run in Sheepshead...... As far as you being "this elitist".... Seriously, Wake up... too many of your posts on here reek of elitism.... The fact that you continually refer to Riverdale as not being in the Bronx is a classic example of that - You aint above anyone else that lives in the Bx because you live in Riverdale... and I'm not referring to geography either.... Feel free to call me an elitist now that you've been outed in your hypocrisy, but the fact of the matter is my actions speaks for themselves. I would be curious in understanding what my "alternative" motive would be for supporting and speaking out for an S53 limited other than for the overall benefit of commuters.... I know, that's very "elitist". As for this whole Riverdale nonsense, just to be clear, the first time I came up there I said the same things that I say now about the area vs the Bronx and my opinion has not changed because I moved here. Same thing that I say about parts of Manhattan or other parts of other boroughs. When I came up there for the first time I literally chuckled after what was the most depressing trip through the Bronx with filthy streets, tons of projects and burnt out buildings and said that supposedly Riverdale was in the Bronx, but this was the complete opposite of the Bronx. Yeah maybe it's officially part of the Bronx and all of that, but quite frankly most would have the same opinion that have never been to the Bronx before, so let's be honest here. It's not about propping up the area or any of that. It's just about the honest truth. As far as I'm concerned and others, it might as well be a completely different world and I've said that when I've been in parts of Manhattan too including parts of Midtown, which I think are run pieces of crap. It's like someone who lives on the Upper East Side and someone in a run down part of Manhattan. Same borough, completely different live styles on so many levels. I'm sure Gorgor for as much as he slams me has the same attitude when it comes to his beloved Yorkville/Upper East Side. The only difference is he doesn't crack jokes about it the way that I do, but he's definitely one of those snobby Manhattanites that wouldn't even live anywhere else but in the city. Yes I crack jokes and all of that but at the end of the day actions speak louder than words and if I was this utter elitist, believe me I wouldn't do the things that I've done and not just transit related either. I volunteer my time to less fortunate folks, donate and so on. Goes back to a similar point I made earlier in this thread; the concentration of ridership in the bronx is moreso on the west side.... It isn't like manhattan (for example) where you have ppl. traveling easterly-westerly (and vice versa) like that, to the point where you need more crosstowns in the borough..... I personally don't think it's worth extending routes for the purpose of making them crosstowns or w/e... Outside of geographical reasons, demand comes into question as well.... Which is what no one has really answered here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted February 20, 2013 Share #65 Posted February 20, 2013 As someone who grew up in the bronx and even still frequented the Bronx after moving to Rockaway, I can honestly say this to answer VG8's question on Bx ridership patterns: Most dont need Three buses. Most dont make the trip you were planning. If you were to ride the Bx4, Bx40/42, Bx5, Bx12 or any other route that goes the majority across or fully crosstown, No one really rides the bus end to end. The exception to that rule is When going to Orchard Beach where people Will ride it from end to end, especially if they are using a bus before one of those two which makes it pretty much just 2 buses there (Buses to either the 5 or the 12). The trip you are using is a rarity. Now from my old hood(Bruckner-Soundveiw) to Riverdale, Walking to certain routes/subways were very common. usually within 5 to 15 mins away would eliminate the need for a third route. A quick walk to the Bx36 into manhattan for the Bx7 or to stay within the boro, a walk to Hunts Point for the Bx19 to the Bx9 and yes, a walk over to Riverdale ave if needed. But a trip like that was rare. VERY rare. Its really not an issue of crappy cross bronx routes. Ridership doesnt really warrant it. If it did, changes would have BEEN made by now. And to be honest, with the introduction of the Gold Metrocard (with its Free bus-subway transfers and Unlimited ride options), if a third bus is needed, or if one wants to use a bus/subway combo, its easier then when i was younger. Got an unlimited? One can take three buses. Hunts point to Riverdale on one fare? Bx6 to the 1 train. These are examples why crosstown buses in the Bx does not have the coverage as other routes. On a side note, There ARE instances where one would opt for local buses over the Subway as B35 I believed mentioned(correct me if i misquoted someone for someone else- there was a LOT to filter out): Like from Far Rock to the Bronx. I had no issues (and it turns out oer the years I wasnt the only one) Using LCL/LTD routes vis Jamaica and Flushing instead of taking the subway thru every boro it covers. Sometimes the bus IS the faster way. (although that trip was 3-4 buses on average). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #66 Posted February 20, 2013 As someone who grew up in the bronx and even still frequented the Bronx after moving to Rockaway, I can honestly say this to answer VG8's question on Bx ridership patterns: Most dont need Three buses. Most dont make the trip you were planning. If you were to ride the Bx4, Bx40/42, Bx5, Bx12 or any other route that goes the majority across or fully crosstown, No one really rides the bus end to end. The exception to that rule is When going to Orchard Beach where people Will ride it from end to end, especially if they are using a bus before one of those two which makes it pretty much just 2 buses there (Buses to either the 5 or the 12). The trip you are using is a rarity. Now from my old hood(Bruckner-Soundveiw) to Riverdale, Walking to certain routes/subways were very common. usually within 5 to 15 mins away would eliminate the need for a third route. A quick walk to the Bx36 into manhattan for the Bx7 or to stay within the boro, a walk to Hunts Point for the Bx19 to the Bx9 and yes, a walk over to Riverdale ave if needed. But a trip like that was rare. VERY rare. Its really not an issue of crappy cross bronx routes. Ridership doesnt really warrant it. If it did, changes would have BEEN made by now. And to be honest, with the introduction of the Gold Metrocard (with its Free bus-subway transfers and Unlimited ride options), if a third bus is needed, or if one wants to use a bus/subway combo, its easier then when i was younger. Got an unlimited? One can take three buses. Hunts point to Riverdale on one fare? Bx6 to the 1 train. These are examples why crosstown buses in the Bx does not have the coverage as other routes. On a side note, There ARE instances where one would opt for local buses over the Subway as B35 I believed mentioned(correct me if i misquoted someone for someone else- there was a LOT to filter out): Like from Far Rock to the Bronx. I had no issues (and it turns out oer the years I wasnt the only one) Using LCL/LTD routes vis Jamaica and Flushing instead of taking the subway thru every boro it covers. Sometimes the bus IS the faster way. (although that trip was 3-4 buses on average). I see... So in short you could argue, that just about all of the boroughs are set up similarly, with those who have odd commutes like in my example would simply cross into Manhattan in most cases to make the commute easier. I mean let's face it. Most service is geared towards Manhattan anyway so it would make sense that if you had an odd commute that at some point you'd go into Manhattan to get back the borough you were traveling in. I actually used to do that when I went to Williamsburg and lived in Midwood. I would take the over to Canal, then get the back into Brooklyn. You see what I'm curious about is if these commutes are just "odd" ones because of the lack of service as opposed to folks not really having the need for them and I think that's hard to really determine since the outerboroughs have always been the place where people went to to go home for the most part. I think however that this could be changing as some areas experience commercial growth and maybe you'll start to see more reverse commuting and commuting within the boroughs. I don't think I really thought about that much until I lived in Staten Island and saw how difficult it was to get anywhere within the borough since most of the bus service is geared towards Manhattan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #67 Posted February 20, 2013 Well I don't recall all of this about crowding before, but you can use that excuse now if it makes you feel better. To answer your question, why do I fight for any local bus routes when I don't use them primarily as I have in the past? Maybe because I support transportation for EVERYONE including the ghetto folks that I supposedly loathe so much?? Now I went and spoke about the providing an S53 limited stop bus even though I primarily used car service, so the idea of me being this elitist is total BS. I've fought for service restorations for several LOCAL bus routes and have went to several transportation hearings. I don't think you can say the same thing. If I was really this elitist I wouldn't have done any of that. C'mon, you could give two f**ks about the people who use the S53 around Castleton Avenue. You mentioned a million times "Oh, the X30 went missing, so I took the S53 to the X14, or the S53 to the X2 or whatever". You wish you could afford to take car service every day (rather than just taking it sometimes), so you don't have to share a bus with all those "filthy" Blacks and Hispanics, but that's kind of hard when you're living in a basement 5 minutes from the projects, isn't it? Hell, you even said yourself at the meeting "the S53 is an important route because it connects to other express buses". Who cares about people going from West Brighton to Park Hill? Who cares about those that use it to connect to the SIR or S78/79 to get to points further south? If there weren't any express bus riders benefitting from it, you wouldn't have pushed for it. Hell, the first thing you spoke about was expanded service on the express routes. Your primary purpose wasn't to go to the meeting to fight for the S53 riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 20, 2013 Share #68 Posted February 20, 2013 I see... So in short you could argue, that just about all of the boroughs are set up similarly, with those who have odd commutes like in my example would simply cross into Manhattan in most cases to make the commute easier. I mean let's face it. Most service is geared towards Manhattan anyway so it would make sense that if you had an odd commute that at some point you'd go into Manhattan to get back the borough you were traveling in. I actually used to do that when I went to Williamsburg and lived in Midwood. I would take the over to Canal, then get the back into Brooklyn. You see what I'm curious about is if these commutes are just "odd" ones because of the lack of service as opposed to folks not really having the need for them and I think that's hard to really determine since the outerboroughs have always been the place where people went to to go home for the most part. I think however that this could be changing as some areas experience commercial growth and maybe you'll start to see more reverse commuting and commuting within the boroughs. I don't think I really thought about that much until I lived in Staten Island and saw how difficult it was to get anywhere within the borough since most of the bus service is geared towards Manhattan. err sir why didn't you walk to the from atlantic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #69 Posted February 20, 2013 err sir why didn't you walk to the from atlantic? The from Atlantic??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 20, 2013 Share #70 Posted February 20, 2013 The from Atlantic??? IT's walking distance the lafayette station 4 blocks up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted February 20, 2013 Share #71 Posted February 20, 2013 I see... So in short you could argue, that just about all of the boroughs are set up similarly, with those who have odd commutes like in my example would simply cross into Manhattan in most cases to make the commute easier. I mean let's face it. Most service is geared towards Manhattan anyway so it would make sense that if you had an odd commute that at some point you'd go into Manhattan to get back the borough you were traveling in. I actually used to do that when I went to Williamsburg and lived in Midwood. I would take the over to Canal, then get the back into Brooklyn. You see what I'm curious about is if these commutes are just "odd" ones because of the lack of service as opposed to folks not really having the need for them and I think that's hard to really determine since the outerboroughs have always been the place where people went to to go home for the most part. I think however that this could be changing as some areas experience commercial growth and maybe you'll start to see more reverse commuting and commuting within the boroughs. I don't think I really thought about that much until I lived in Staten Island and saw how difficult it was to get anywhere within the borough since most of the bus service is geared towards Manhattan. But the thing is, when it comes to bus routes, only the bronx has a good number of routes into manhattan. and not even downtown or midtown. Its mostly to hubs and shopping and working districts where Bx residents are use to going. nothing really to be defined as "commuting". Look at the number of routes to manhattan queens has. Look at Brooklyn. They just recently got one back. There are ways of getting from one side of the bronx to the other. In distances like your case, it will take 3. Most people there only need two. And you really dont need to go into manhattan. Look at how Riverdale routes are laid out. Theres a few into upper manhattan, One was even shortened from entering the Bx to just up to 207th(M100) and the Riverdale portion became the Bx7 to the Heights because ridership never really covered the full old M100 route. Most got to arount the Fordham/Kingsbridge area-a hub/ shopping district and where a number of people go to work or school just like a lot of routes tend to do the same but from the southern half. My whole point of Bx crosstown routes in geneeral is similar to why theres not really a lot of Queens routes to Manhattan, or another example, why theres lots of routes between brooklyn and Queens. In a nut shell, why have routes in the Bx from one residential area to another when most who dont need to leave the Bronx go to the business districts? Routes will be long and redundant as, say, the Bx27 idea to Riverdale. Unless youre going to visit a friend, you arent traveling between those points. and not alot do. Its all about service major hubs/shopping/business districts and lets face it, Manhattan isnt the end all of where people of this city work. Some live in far rock and work in Jamaica. Some live in the Morris Park and work at the 149th St hub in Mott Haven. Thats the thing im assuming you are missing. Not everyone works in manhattan. Theres Hospitals throughout the city, schools, universities, etc. I feel i may be rambling on, but i hope this gives you a better perspective. BTW, when QJ stated "G from Atlantic", I believe what was referred to is the G at Fulton St, Which is a short 2 block walk from Atlantic/Pacific, which can be done with an Unlimited Metrocard. Ive used that myself, but I personally keep in mind that a)not everyone wants to walk out of system(Regardless of the surrounding area-weather can be a factor too), b) Not everyone uses unlimiteds and c) sometimes people just dont want to walk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #72 Posted February 20, 2013 But the thing is, when it comes to bus routes, only the bronx has a good number of routes into manhattan. and not even downtown or midtown. Its mostly to hubs and shopping and working districts where Bx residents are use to going. nothing really to be defined as "commuting". Look at the number of routes to manhattan queens has. Look at Brooklyn. They just recently got one back. There are ways of getting from one side of the bronx to the other. In distances like your case, it will take 3. Most people there only need two. And you really dont need to go into manhattan. Look at how Riverdale routes are laid out. Theres a few into upper manhattan, One was even shortened from entering the Bx to just up to 207th(M100) and the Riverdale portion became the Bx7 to the Heights because ridership never really covered the full old M100 route. Most got to arount the Fordham/Kingsbridge area-a hub/ shopping district and where a number of people go to work or school just like a lot of routes tend to do the same but from the southern half. My whole point of Bx crosstown routes in geneeral is similar to why theres not really a lot of Queens routes to Manhattan, or another example, why theres lots of routes between brooklyn and Queens. In a nut shell, why have routes in the Bx from one residential area to another when most who dont need to leave the Bronx go to the business districts? Routes will be long and redundant as, say, the Bx27 idea to Riverdale. Unless youre going to visit a friend, you arent traveling between those points. and not alot do. Its all about service major hubs/shopping/business districts and lets face it, Manhattan isnt the end all of where people of this city work. Some live in far rock and work in Jamaica. Some live in the Morris Park and work at the 149th St hub in Mott Haven. Thats the thing im assuming you are missing. Not everyone works in manhattan. Theres Hospitals throughout the city, schools, universities, etc. I feel i may be rambling on, but i hope this gives you a better perspective. BTW, when QJ stated "G from Atlantic", I believe what was referred to is the G at Fulton St, Which is a short 2 block walk from Atlantic/Pacific, which can be done with an Unlimited Metrocard. Ive used that myself, but I personally keep in mind that a)not everyone wants to walk out of system(Regardless of the surrounding area-weather can be a factor too), b) Not everyone uses unlimiteds and c) sometimes people just dont want to walk! Yeah but I'm still not so sure if the set up is like this because of the inconvenience or because of actual travel patterns. On one hand you say that not many people travel with scenarios I laid, but on the other hand you say that not everyone works in Manhattan, leading one to believe that there is a decent amount of travel within the Bronx itself. As for the Riverdale routes, I'm not really sure why the Bx7 goes from Riverdale to Washington Heights to be honest. I'm not quite seeing the connection there aside from the connection to the train. It's not like say Dominicans in Washington Heights going to close by areas in the Bronx. I've only used the Bx7 once (a few weeks ago out of curiosity) and when I did it emptied out like crazy near 231st st by the station, which is where I got off at to get the train to Manhattan. As for the I still don't see the point.. How would the help me in going from Williamsburg to Midwood when my destination was closer to the ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 20, 2013 Share #73 Posted February 20, 2013 Feel free to call me an elitist now that you've been outed in your hypocrisy, but the fact of the matter is my actions speaks for themselves. I would be curious in understanding what my "alternative" motive would be for supporting and speaking out for an S53 limited other than for the overall benefit of commuters.... I know, that's very "elitist". Have no retort to the rest of what was said do you.... Now you wanna dismiss it by concluding that you outed someone on something you never shown or proved.... I'm this supposed hypocrite, but you can't even answer what other ulterior motive I have for taking the express bus; talking about what you don't recall.... You haven't outed me on anything; I don't take express buses because I want to avoid certain types of people like you do.... Good job at deflecting & strawmanning by the way; too bad it didn't work for you..... Now you wanna make like you're this big supporter of the S53 & less of an elitist because you know what areas that route runs through.... Even if you were, the exception doesn't swallow the rule.... But since you wanna pick & choose your arguments to make your point, that goes both ways - It says nothing about you wanting to cut B46 service "With the amount of farebeating on that line they should have less service whenever possible".... Whenever possible, those are your words - Or is that not the honest truth? Cut service on the B46 because folks out in Sheepshead have to take car service with the lack of service the B4 has..... But have you tell it, you're not an elitist..... .....As for this whole Riverdale nonsense, just to be clear, the first time I came up there I said the same things that I say now about the area vs the Bronx and my opinion has not changed because I moved here. Same thing that I say about parts of Manhattan or other parts of other boroughs. When I came up there for the first time I literally chuckled after what was the most depressing trip through the Bronx with filthy streets, tons of projects and burnt out buildings and said that supposedly Riverdale was in the Bronx, but this was the complete opposite of the Bronx. Yeah maybe it's officially part of the Bronx and all of that, but quite frankly most would have the same opinion that have never been to the Bronx before, so let's be honest here. It's not about propping up the area or any of that. It's just about the honest truth. As far as I'm concerned and others, it might as well be a completely different world and I've said that when I've been in parts of Manhattan too including parts of Midtown, which I think are run pieces of crap. It's like someone who lives on the Upper East Side and someone in a run down part of Manhattan. Same borough, completely different live styles on so many levels. I'm sure Gorgor for as much as he slams me has the same attitude when it comes to his beloved Yorkville/Upper East Side. The only difference is he doesn't crack jokes about it the way that I do, but he's definitely one of those snobby Manhattanites that wouldn't even live anywhere else but in the city. Yes I crack jokes and all of that but at the end of the day actions speak louder than words and if I was this utter elitist, believe me I wouldn't do the things that I've done and not just transit related either. I volunteer my time to less fortunate folks, donate and so on. More deflecting, this time you wanna use Gorgor..... I like how you halfheartedly state that Riverdale is officially a part of the Bronx "and all of that" & in the same breath, stating that the contrary was simply you cracking a joke.... How many times were you told on here that Riverdale is a part of the borough.... Judging by your replies to those type of comments, you wanted no part of anyone's explanation & went hell & high water to portray otherwise..... There is a difference between feeling like a neighborhood is very different from the rest of the county it lies in, and flat out making commentary suggesting that it's not even part of the borough.... Again, the latter is an elitist mindset.... You're not doing all that good of a job portraying yourself on here as being otherwise either.... The attitude you exude & the shit you say about local buses in general & its riders is nothing short of appalling.... You can't hide or mask it... It's inherent in you, and it shows in a lot of your posts on here..... And why exactly are you telling me about what time of yours you volunteer? Hell, you even said yourself at the meeting "the S53 is an important route because it connects to other express buses". If that's true, I rest my case...... err sir why didn't you walk to the from atlantic? doesn't run in midwood, "sir".... As someone who grew up in the bronx and even still frequented the Bronx after moving to Rockaway, I can honestly say this to answer VG8's question on Bx ridership patterns: Most dont need Three buses. Most dont make the trip you were planning. If you were to ride the Bx4, Bx40/42, Bx5, Bx12 or any other route that goes the majority across or fully crosstown, No one really rides the bus end to end. The exception to that rule is When going to Orchard Beach where people Will ride it from end to end, especially if they are using a bus before one of those two which makes it pretty much just 2 buses there (Buses to either the 5 or the 12). The trip you are using is a rarity. Now from my old hood(Bruckner-Soundveiw) to Riverdale, Walking to certain routes/subways were very common. usually within 5 to 15 mins away would eliminate the need for a third route. A quick walk to the Bx36 into manhattan for the Bx7 or to stay within the boro, a walk to Hunts Point for the Bx19 to the Bx9 and yes, a walk over to Riverdale ave if needed. But a trip like that was rare. VERY rare. Its really not an issue of crappy cross bronx routes. Ridership doesnt really warrant it. If you don't have a perfect grid system, you can always come up with scenarios that would require a 3 bus commute.... If there are commutes where it's apparent where so many riders are taking 3 buses, that's where you start to look for ways to trim a 3-bus commute down to at least 2.... But as was said, most don't need 3 buses to travel east-west w/i the borough, and for sure not north-south (Lol).... As far as I can see, outside of all the east-west riders on the Bx12, there's quite a bit of ppl that ride the 36 from washington heights to the shopping ctr. down in soundview, and ppl. xferring off Bx6's to the Bx5 & hunts pt/southern - but that's only to get as far as soundview or castle hill.... Otherwise, from those 2 areas, you have ppl. bombarding 22's to get to the , to parkchester, or to fordham.... and 27's for w/e other bus towards GC or towards manhattan (that's another scenario I forgot to mention; the 27 to [11's or 35's] for westerly service.... But in all that, soundview isn't exactly east bronx; it's like smack in the middle of the southern 1/3rd of the borough...... Yeah but I'm still not so sure if the set up is like this because of the inconvenience or because of actual travel patterns. On one hand you say that not many people travel with scenarios I laid, but on the other hand you say that not everyone works in Manhattan, leading one to believe that there is a decent amount of travel within the Bronx itself. The people that are south & east (scuhylerville, throgs neck, etc) of the generally use buses to get to that line.... From what I gather, most don't really ride past parkchester using the bus... Those to the immediate east & north east (co-op city, eastchester, baychester) more often than not are making their way to the white plains rd. area.... I don't have to tell you that riverdalians generally aren't seeking areas on the other side of the park (van cortlandt).... If anything, there's a lot of north-south travel in the bronx (on either side of the bronx river), so the amount of "L" shaped routes the borough has, makes sense, considering ridership habits..... I mean, you're not gonna get too many people on the eastern half of the borough riding buses to manhattan [or even to western bronx areas like university heights, high bridge, melrose, etc... FWIW, the only exception is fordham plz (for obvious reasons]..... It's not about the lack of eastern bronx - western bronx service...... Seeming how the runs from north bronx & slopes down towards the SE bronx; many from the eastern side of the bronx take buses to it, to get to wherever they have to go w/i the bronx too...... ...As for the Riverdale routes, I'm not really sure why the Bx7 goes from Riverdale to Washington Heights to be honest. I'm not quite seeing the connection there aside from the connection to the train. It's not like say Dominicans in Washington Heights going to close by areas in the Bronx. It's two-fold.... You have the riders that ride anywhere between 168th itself & the kingsbridge area [which includes the inwood folks], and the riverdalians that ride up from the .... It takes on a northerly-southerly routing..... Rather than [have the Bx7 continue up broadway w/ the Bx9] & [have some other separate route running from 231st st to Mt st Vincent]; they put 2 & 2 together - combining the manhattan ridership of the Bx7 with the bronx ridership of the Bx7 to form the route.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #74 Posted February 20, 2013 Have no retort to the rest of what was said do you.... Now you wanna dismiss it by concluding that you outed someone on something you never shown or proved.... I'm this supposed hypocrite, but you can't even answer what other ulterior motive I have for taking the express bus; talking about what you don't recall.... You haven't outed me on anything; I don't take express buses because I want to avoid certain types of people like you do.... Good job at deflecting & strawmanning by the way; too bad it didn't work for you..... lol... If it was all about avoiding the crowds, you could simply take the subway at a different time, as if the subways are crowded 24/7... LOL The BMs during the rush are usually pretty crowded, save maybe the BM4, so I'm not sure how you avoid the crowds as you claim you're doing... Now you wanna make like you're this big supporter of the S53 & less of an elitist because you know what areas that route runs through.... Even if you were, the exception doesn't swallow the rule.... But since you wanna pick & choose your arguments to make your point, that goes both ways - It says nothing about you wanting to cut B46 service "With the amount of farebeating on that line they should have less service whenever possible".... Whenever possible, those are your words - Or is that not the honest truth? Cut service on the B46 because folks out in Sheepshead have to take car service with the lack of service the B4 has..... But have you tell it, you're not an elitist..... LOL... Yes, and I still stand by that B46 comment, because listen if it's okay to cut service to the point to where there is either no overnight service or no service outside of rush hour on routes where people pay PAY THEIR FARE, then why should routes with rampant farebeating get service boosts? One B/O on here is fine with the overnight service cuts to the B31 which leaves riders STRANDED in Gerritsen Beach so that the B46 where many don't pay their fare can have better service overnight. Hell Shortline even went as far as saying that the folks in Gerritsen Beach can just take a cab, as if they don't need their service, but how dare me make any suggestion of cutting B46 service when the many riders are benefiting from free rides at the expense of other communities... More deflecting, this time you wanna use Gorgor..... I like how you halfheartedly state that Riverdale is officially a part of the Bronx "and all of that" & in the same breath, stating that the contrary was simply you cracking a joke.... How many times were you told on here that Riverdale is a part of the borough.... Judging by your replies to those type of comments, you wanted no part of anyone's explanation & went hell & high water to portray otherwise..... There is a difference between feeling like a neighborhood is very different from the rest of the county it lies in, and flat out making commentary suggesting that it's not even part of the borough.... Again, the latter is an elitist mindset.... You're not doing all that good of a job portraying yourself on here as being otherwise either.... The attitude you exude & the shit you say about local buses in general & its riders is nothing short of appalling.... You can't hide or mask it... It's inherent in you, and it shows in a lot of your posts on here..... LOL... Oh as if I didn't know that Riverdale was officially part of the Bronx the first time I went there and said that it wasn't part of the Bronx... If I said it then when I didn't live there why would my opinion change now that I do live there? It's just my way of saying that the place is so far removed from the Bronx that it might as well be on another planet. FYI, I've been saying that the Bronx is a sh*t hole for many years... A good friend of mine (Italian) who I've known since I was a teenager is from the Bronx and he grew up in Pelham Bay. At that time some 15 years ago I still lived in Brooklyn and even then I would make fun of him for living in the Bronx. Now Pelham Bay is a decent area but I had no idea then and just thought that the entire place was a hell hole and could never understand how a white guy like him lived there, but after exploring Morris Park, that's when I found out there are actually a few decent areas in the Bronx. LOL For what it's worth, I felt and said the same thing the first time I went to a BBQ in Morris Park. I said I can't believe that I'm sitting here in what is supposedly the Bronx on a tree lined quiet street with birds chirping and there are no gun shots. I bash on a lot of places in the city, including Manhattan... That's like me saying that some parts of Midtown are absolute sh*t as I have said in the past and then suddenly recanting. I pass through the sh*tty parts of the Bronx every night on the way to Riverdale and outside of the few nice neighborhoods left, the place is a dump, period and I have no problem saying it because it's the truth, just like I find parts of Manhattan to be filthy save a few areas like the Upper East Side... Hell even parts of the Upper West Side are disgusting. And why exactly are you telling me about what time of yours you volunteer? Because some of my money and time goes to poor folks that's why. A true elitist would do no such thing... If that's true, I rest my case...... I assume this is about the S53 and the hearing... What I stated at the hearing was that the S53 is an important route because it provides MANY connections, including the SIR, local buses and express buses, which is all true. I believe there is a transcript somewhere with my exact comments so I have no reason to lie about what I said, esp. since I prepared a rough speech in advance. My primary purpose was to speak out for express bus service first since that is what I use primarily. No one would stand up and go fighting for other services before speaking up for the services that they use first and foremost. What I do find hilarious is the accusation that I'm using the S53 simply because of the areas that it runs through, but then on the other hand, I supposedly only support bus routes that run through certain neighborhoods. doesn't run in midwood, "sir".... lol... My sentiments exactly... It's two-fold.... You have the riders that ride anywhere between 168th itself & the kingsbridge area [which includes the inwood folks], and the riverdalians that ride up from the .... It takes on a northerly-southerly routing..... Rather than [have the Bx7 continue up broadway w/ the Bx9] & [have some other separate route running from 231st st to Mt st Vincent]; they put 2 & 2 together - combining the manhattan ridership of the Bx7 with the bronx ridership of the Bx7 to form the route.... Well that makes sense... I was just trying to understand if folks actually ride from Washington Heights up to Riverdale regularly, because that would seem odd to me because I don't see any real connection between the two neighborhoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 21, 2013 Share #75 Posted February 21, 2013 lol... If it was all about avoiding the crowds, you could simply take the subway at a different time, as if the subways are crowded 24/7... LOL The BMs during the rush are usually pretty crowded, save maybe the BM4, so I'm not sure how you avoid the crowds as you claim you're doing... The subways don't have to be crowded 24/7 for me to want to take the express bus..... I'm not arriving for work too early & for sure I'm not trying to arrive late, so miss me with all that taking the subway at a different time.... And how the hell are you seriously gonna compare the crowding on the BM's during the rush to the crowding of the subway (the in particular) during the rush... Now you're just coming up with silly shit to make your point..... Now it's looking like you have an issue with me even taking the express, since you're suggesting that I take the subway at a different time.... Either way, Get over it - I don't take the express bus to avoid certain types of people like you do.... You have nothing to suggest the contrary and you know it.... LOL... Yes, and I still stand by that B46 comment, because listen if it's okay to cut service to the point to where there is either no overnight service or no service outside of rush hour on routes where people pay PAY THEIR FARE, then why should routes with rampant farebeating get service boosts? One B/O on here is fine with the overnight service cuts to the B31 which leaves riders STRANDED in Gerritsen Beach so that the B46 where many don't pay their fare can have better service overnight. Hell Shortline even went as far as saying that the folks in Gerritsen Beach can just take a cab, as if they don't need their service, but how dare me make any suggestion of cutting B46 service when the many riders are benefiting from free rides at the expense of other communities... LOL... Oh as if I didn't know that Riverdale was officially part of the Bronx the first time I went there and said that it wasn't part of the Bronx... If I said it then when I didn't live there why would my opinion change now that I do live there? It's just my way of saying that the place is so far removed from the Bronx that it might as well be on another planet. FYI, I've been saying that the Bronx is a sh*t hole for many years... A good friend of mine (Italian) who I've known since I was a teenager is from the Bronx and he grew up in Pelham Bay. At that time some 15 years ago I still lived in Brooklyn and even then I would make fun of him for living in the Bronx. Now Pelham Bay is a decent area but I had no idea then and just thought that the entire place was a hell hole and could never understand how a white guy like him lived there, but after exploring Morris Park, that's when I found out there are actually a few decent areas in the Bronx. LOL For what it's worth, I felt and said the same thing the first time I went to a BBQ in Morris Park. I said I can't believe that I'm sitting here in what is supposedly the Bronx on a tree lined quiet street with birds chirping and there are no gun shots. I bash on a lot of places in the city, including Manhattan... That's like me saying that some parts of Midtown are absolute sh*t as I have said in the past and then suddenly recanting. I pass through the sh*tty parts of the Bronx every night on the way to Riverdale and outside of the few nice neighborhoods left, the place is a dump, period and I have no problem saying it because it's the truth, just like I find parts of Manhattan to be filthy save a few areas like the Upper East Side... Hell even parts of the Upper West Side are disgusting. You can ask all the rhetorical questions, hide behind smilies, & play dumb in repeated attempts to try to save face all you want.... As far as I'm concerned, you're wasting your time tryna fool somebody..... Where was all this defiance about joke cracking & you oh so knowing that Riverdale was officially part of the borough before this thread.... You're only saying all that now to make like you aren't "this elitist"...... Yeah I'm sure you still stand by that B46 comment & will resort to conjuring up any comparison that makes your standing behind that comment easier.... Bringing up shortline's comment doesn't help your case because I don't agree with that comment either..... People shouldn't be forced to take cabs, but that doesn't mean you take bus service from other areas either..... As far as you bashing other places, do so all you want - but at the same token, don't expect not to be called out when you bash other areas other people will defend (like you do with your defending of Riverdale)...... Don't expect not to be referred to as an elitist when you turn your nose up at people that live in areas you wish to bash..... It's not just the simple bashing with you; judging by your prior commentaries, you look down on people, to top it off..... Because some of my money and time goes to poor folks that's why. A true elitist would do no such thing... I assume this is about the S53 and the hearing... What I stated at the hearing was that the S53 is an important route because it provides MANY connections, including the SIR, local buses and express buses, which is all true. I believe there is a transcript somewhere with my exact comments so I have no reason to lie about what I said, esp. since I prepared a rough speech in advance. My primary purpose was to speak out for express bus service first since that is what I use primarily. No one would stand up and go fighting for other services before speaking up for the services that they use first and foremost. What I do find hilarious is the accusation that I'm using the S53 simply because of the areas that it runs through, but then on the other hand, I supposedly only support bus routes that run through certain neighborhoods. Who said anything about a "true" elitist (whatever that means).... Stop adding extras to it..... And again, why are you telling me about where & to who your time & money goes... What you do with any of that is your business... It has no bearing on me...... As far as that S53 comment Checkmate pointed out, well take that up with him if he took it out of context.... My exact words were "If that's true, I rest my case"... Never said it was true, Never said it was a lie..... Also never said anything about you using the S53 because of the areas it runs through - there you go with the strawmanning again... Out of the bus routes you wanted to point out that you defend, you chose the S53 in rebuttal to me because of the areas it runs through - to paint the picture that you aren't elitist & as you put it - "Maybe because I support transportation for EVERYONE including the ghetto folks that I supposedly loathe so much??"... That was the point with that. Well that makes sense... I was just trying to understand if folks actually ride from Washington Heights up to Riverdale regularly, because that would seem odd to me because I don't see any real connection between the two neighborhoods. From Washington Heights to Riverdale, nah.... the majority of those ppl. that you see on Bx7's as it runs within riverdale, are ppl. that emanated around 231st ..... As far as a connection b/w the neighborhoods, yeah there isn't much of any..... Riverdalians generally don't ride south of the & Washington heights/Inwood folks generally don't ride past riverdale av/231st..... 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