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alekr

E train morning rush overcrowding solution

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I have noticed that the E train is overpacked during the AM rush hours to Manhattan. It is super packed couldn't get in at Roosevelt Ave even there were a large crowd wanting to get in the train. Since the CBTC is not going be arriving at Queens Blvd Line for years to come. I have a possible solution:

 

I am not sure which (E) train stop that most people get off during AM rush because I always get off @ Queens Plaza:

 

-Lex Ave 53rd St

-5th Ave 53rd St

-42nd St

-34th St

-World Trade Center

 

Why not send extra (E) trains from Jamaica operating to 2nd ave this way can have extra (E) service. I'm not sure if this is a good idea because it could delay the (C) service or the (F)/(M) @ Broadway Lafayette.

 

 

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If you looked at the F line timetables for the AM Rush you can see why this isnt a good idea....

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If you looked at the F line timetables for the AM Rush you can see why this isnt a good idea....

 

The (F) is not super crowded I noticed compared with the (E). It possible because of the 53rd st corridor smack-dab in midtown

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It isn't possible. Here's why.

 

1. Queens Blvd is already at capacity, and the (F) is essentially as crowded as the (E), so you can't reduce service there.

 

2. The junction at West 4th doesn't need to be handling any service crossing between 8th and 6th Avenues. 

 

3. Even a few trains extra with the (F) and (M) between West 4th and Bway-Lafayette will cause delays.

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The (E) is better the way it is. I also see two train-sets before seeing a (C) and then onward during PM rush period.

 

And for the 2 Avenue proposal, I would not think it because rush periods are NOT the perfect time for any cluttered tracks as it is.

Edited by Metro CSW

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Now I get it!

 

I now understand why it better to leave the (E) alone! I wish the 53rd st CBTC and the Queens Blvd CBTC would be complete years ago.

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Now I get it!

 

I now understand why it better to leave the (E) alone! I wish the 53rd st CBTC and the Queens Blvd CBTC would be complete years ago.

You can also take the (M) or (R) to Queens Plaza.  I would probably do that and put up with the trains being local if it meant not being on an overcrowded line.  For Manhattan, if I was going to lower Manhattan from there I would probably either take the (M) to West 4th and switch to the (E) there OR take the (R) to Times Square and walk over to get the (E) (or simply take the (R) to lower Manhattan directly).

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You can also take the (M) or (R) to Queens Plaza.  I would probably do that and put up with the trains being local if it meant not being on an overcrowded line.  For Manhattan, if I was going to lower Manhattan from there I would probably either take the (M) to West 4th and switch to the (E) there OR take the (R) to Times Square and walk over to get the (E) (or simply take the (R) to lower Manhattan directly).

 

The problem with that is the (R) gets pretty damn crowded itself if you don't catch it at Forest Hills. It usualyl sits in Forest Hills for a good 5 minutes before pulling out, so unless you have lots of time, you will take the express across the platform. Plus, the loooong walk from the (R) to the (E) at Times Sqaure, especially at rush hour, is not something most people would want to do. 

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Is the proposal to send (E) trains to 2 Av or to have (E) trains only make those 5 stops listed in Manhattan? Considering most (E) trains leave Jamaica Center crowded during the rush no routing ideas make any sense.

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Is the proposal to send (E) trains to 2 Av or to have (E) trains only make those 5 stops listed in Manhattan? Considering most (E) trains leave Jamaica Center crowded during the rush no routing ideas make any sense.

 

The proposal was sending some (E) to 2nd ave.

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A bypass via the LIRR in Queens makes sense. You can then evenly spread out the crowds. The cut would run on the nearby LIRR from Queens Plaza to 71st Ave. You could have it in the peak direction. This takes the strain off the express tracks.

 

Sending the (E) causing merging problems. Your waiting for a (F) or (M) to pass, backing up the (C) behind you.

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back in 2010 after the cuts, they had a plan to start some (E) about 3-4 trains during the am rush hour from 71st ave, I don't know why they scrapped that plan, that would have been good for those people waiting at roosevelt

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if you are going from Jamaica Station to 34th Street, you might as well take the LIRR instead of the (E)

If you're entering  at Jamaica Station what is the difference in peak fare versus an all subway ride? Time-wise the LIRR wins the race but I think the real question is whether a Queens resident would be willing to pay that fare premium. Obviously if you're coming from Nassau or Suffolk you'd probably stick with the LIRR. Just curious.

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The (F) is not super crowded I noticed compared with the (E). It possible because of the 53rd st corridor smack-dab in midtown

Im not talking about People riding the train.... Im talking about trains themselves...

 

Hence the word "timetables"...

 

back in 2010 after the cuts, they had a plan to start some (E) about 3-4 trains during the am rush hour from 71st ave, I don't know why they scrapped that plan, that would have been good for those people waiting at roosevelt

Unless they ran Light from 179th it would have been a capacity issue You got at least 8 Put Ins from downstairs...

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The problem with that is the (R) gets pretty damn crowded itself if you don't catch it at Forest Hills. It usualyl sits in Forest Hills for a good 5 minutes before pulling out, so unless you have lots of time, you will take the express across the platform. Plus, the loooong walk from the (R) to the (E) at Times Sqaure, especially at rush hour, is not something most people would want to do.

 

The (R) is usually pretty OK in the morning - and I'm getting on all the way at 46 st.

 

 Pro Tip: Get on the back of the train. The front car is - always - jammed. 

 

I generally prefer the (M) in the morning. Even though I have to transfer to the (1) It's the same amount of time and more pleasant to walk from Rock Center to 50th street than to try and weave through Times Square. 

 

The only caveat with the M is that you want to be in the back of the train, but not the last car. The last car always gets slammed full of Idiots at Court Sq. who can't figure out that walking toward the center of the platform, and not crowding right by the stairs, will get them in the train faster. Sure, if you just barely made the train I get there's no time to walk down, but a lot of people walk right down the stairs to the platform and stop. 

 

if you are going from Jamaica Station to 34th Street, you might as well take the LIRR instead of the (E)

 

For a one-off trip, maybe that's a good plan. I take the LIRR maybe 4 or 5 times a month.

 

But for a daily commute, with the monthly ticket cost for Jamaica-Penn at $193, (before pending increases), even if you bought this instead of a monthly metrocard, that's almost an extra $90 a month. For $90 a month, I'll squeeze my butt into a crowded train.

 

If you're entering  at Jamaica Station what is the difference in peak fare versus an all subway ride? Time-wise the LIRR wins the race but I think the real question is whether a Queens resident would be willing to pay that fare premium. Obviously if you're coming from Nassau or Suffolk you'd probably stick with the LIRR. Just curious.

 

(Bear in mind these are only costs from Jamaica. If you're unfamiliar - the LIRR uses a Zoned fare structure, with higher prices from further east. ) 

 

Single Trip Peak, no subways (assuming single ride metro card)$8.75 - $6.25 extra ($8.75-$2.50)

Single Trip Off Peak, no subways $6.25 - $3.75 extra ($6.25-2.50)

 

Single Trip Rail+Subway Peak(assuming regular metrocard) $11

Single Trip Rail+Subway off peak $8.50

 

Monthly Cost, no subways= $89 extra ($193-104)

Monthly Cost, combined= $297   (<------ NO THANK YOU)

Edited by itmaybeokay

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The (R) is usually pretty OK in the morning - and I'm getting on all the way at 46 st.

 

 Pro Tip: Get on the back of the train. The front car is - always - jammed. 

 

I generally prefer the (M) in the morning. Even though I have to transfer to the (1) It's the same amount of time and more pleasant to walk from Rock Center to 50th street than to try and weave through Times Square. 

 

The only caveat with the M is that you want to be in the back of the train, but not the last car. The last car always gets slammed full of Idiots at Court Sq. who can't figure out that walking toward the center of the platform, and not crowding right by the stairs, will get them in the train faster. Sure, if you just barely made the train I get there's no time to walk down, but a lot of people walk right down the stairs to the platform and stop. 

 

 

For a one-off trip, maybe that's a good plan. I take the LIRR maybe 4 or 5 times a month.

 

But for a daily commute, with the monthly ticket cost for Jamaica-Penn at $193, (before pending increases), even if you bought this instead of a monthly metrocard, that's almost an extra $90 a month. For $90 a month, I'll squeeze my butt into a crowded train.

 

 

(Bear in mind these are only costs from Jamaica. If you're unfamiliar - the LIRR uses a Zoned fare structure, with higher prices from further east. ) 

 

Single Trip Peak, no subways (assuming single ride metro card)$8.75 - $6.25 extra ($8.75-$2.50)

Single Trip Off Peak, no subways $6.25 - $3.75 extra ($6.25-2.50)

 

Single Trip Rail+Subway Peak(assuming regular metrocard) $11

Single Trip Rail+Subway off peak $8.50

 

Monthly Cost, no subways= $89 extra ($193-104)

Monthly Cost, combined= $297   (<------ NO THANK YOU)

Well it all comes down to how much one values speed + comfort. You can't get both for the most part with the subway.

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The LIRR only saves like 10 minutes over the (E) train... not that great of a time savings to spend a extra 90 bucks a month :huh:

If you really want a seat, perhaps to do work, it is worth it. I use the express bus to get work done, so the cost is part of doing business for me. 

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I can say that about 50% of E Train riders ride to Lex-59 for the transfer to the 6. There are three ways to solve the dilemma, with two being impossible due to the MTA's nature of budget overruns. One, is to restore F through 53, and reroute the M through 63. Then, you could build a physical connector between Lex/63 and Lex/59 (The reason is that this would give more incentive to ride the F over the E, as about 50% of E riders ride the E to transfer to the 6). Then you also could reroute the 63 st tubes, so that in queens they curve down so that they allign with the QBL, and that they split/join just west of Queens Plaza.  And have the F and E via 53 and M via 63. 

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You also can't send the (E) down 2nd Av, because the 53rd St tunnel is also at capacity, there's no interlocking planned there, and -most importantly- SAS Phase III doesn't exist yet.

 

I would hope the MTA would close some of the more annoying transfer gaps (Fulton (G) and Atlantic, QBP and Queens Plaza, Hewes (J) and Broadway (G), Livonia (L) and Junius (3), 63rd (F) and 59th (N)(Q)(R)(4)(5)(6)), but I wouldn't hold my breath. Specifically, with 63rd, there are some pretty severe elevation changes, and constructing such a transfer would be complicated and expensive due to the depth of the Manhattan bedrock and the multi-billion dollar properties around it.

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If you really want a seat, perhaps to do work, it is worth it. I use the express bus to get work done, so the cost is part of doing business for me. 

 

I would imagine those LIRR trains are really crowded in the AM rush, so I doubt a seat is easy to get if you're getting on at Jamaica...

 

I done some train watching along the main line between Woodside & Kew Gardens during the PM Rush and some of those trains be SRO.

Edited by trainfan22

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I can say that about 50% of E Train riders ride to Lex-59 for the transfer to the 6. There are three ways to solve the dilemma, with two being impossible due to the MTA's nature of budget overruns. One, is to restore F through 53, and reroute the M through 63. Then, you could build a physical connector between Lex/63 and Lex/59 (The reason is that this would give more incentive to ride the F over the E, as about 50% of E riders ride the E to transfer to the 6). Then you also could reroute the 63 st tubes, so that in queens they curve down so that they allign with the QBL, and that they split/join just west of Queens Plaza.  And have the F and E via 53 and M via 63. 

That defeats the point of splitting both lines because Lex-53rd can't handle all those people getting off on that one platform. The M would also be empty going thru 63rd. A tunnel from 59th to 63rd would be a waste. Plus when the Q goes to 96th-2nd av, then there's no need to transfer from the F to the 6 if they need to go up to 96th and the Bleecker st transfer to the uptown 6 is also convenient.

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