Welcome to the 2013 Major & Minor League Baseball Thread

[B35 via Church]

Yankees looking much smarter passing on him. I figured it was just because he couldn't hack it in a big market area, but I didn't think he'd be an instigator. smh.

Greinke always struck me as one of these types that have to play in a small market area in order to shine; kinda like the way Randy Johnson did when he dominated the league pitching for seattle & arizona..... Remember when he came to the Yankees & the very first day NY media hounded him, he got very annoyed (to the point where I personally thought he was gonna shove one of the cameramen)..... Come to think of it, IINM, he did push one of the cameras out of his way...... I mean he was still good when he was here, but you could tell he was uneasy being here, to say the least.....

 

I say all that to say, I have to agree that the Yankees look like geniuses not snatching up Greinke when they could have.... But I knew he had a nact for being in the middle of some shit, some way or another.... He was like that on the Royals..... I was glad when we didn't get him.

 

I think hughes has run his course. Whatever value he has left, just trade him. I'd rather have that kid nunuo? over hughes.

lol, you & hughes.....

 

I know they eventually lost last night, but upon channel surfing, I had turned it & saw that they were getting 1 hit in the 6th....

Just shook my head & turned the channel....

[Grand Concourse]

Ironically of the 3 pitchers the Yankees got that year (Wright and Pavano) Johnson was the only healthy one and pitched 2 full seasons and got a decent 34? win record. Not dominant for the money, but better than the other guys. Johnson just didn't have it when it came to the playoffs though.

 

Yeah Hughes just gives up too many homers and with the A's stadium, that isn't exactly shallow. I'm not expecting him to be flawless, but it's getting tiring seeing all the homers he gives up. At this point they are better off letting that rookie take his spot in the rotation. He's a flyball pitcher and Yankees stadium isn't the place for him anymore. Shame too since he showed such promise in 2010's first half.

 

True, the hitting yet again is hit or miss. I dunno if it's fair to blame Long, but I don't think they can replace many of the hitters to get some sort of consistency here. A new hitting coach maybe needed. I mean losing to Colon (again)?

[BreeddekalbL]

matt harvey finally loses!

[B35 via Church]

matt harvey finally loses!

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Harvey isn't as good as he's put out there to be.... Sure he's no scrub, but the comparisons to Seaver from some people (namely, old school mets fans) need to stop, Pronto..... He's one of these guys that when he has bad starts, the team offensively bails him out, where he leaves said game w/ a ND (no decision).... Which, when you would look at his record (before this loss) & combine with how good he looks when he's out there dealing, makes it look like he's light years better than what he is.....

[Grand Concourse]

I was starting to get the feeling that he was just untouchable and that for him the team just manages not to lose or cause him to get a loss. 

And the Yankees swept in Oakland... is this the new Angels where they just can't beat that team on their turf? Where the hell is the offense? Why did this game have to go to extras for Mo to lose again? I swear, (not on the coach's hands, but basically can't fire all the hitters) if the team flops again at the end, it's time to find a new hitting coach because this shit has gone on too long with the lack of hits. The pitching can only carry the team so far...

[GojiMet86]

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Harvey isn't as good as he's put out there to be.... Sure he's no scrub, but the comparisons to Seaver from some people (namely, old school mets fans) need to stop, Pronto..... He's one of these guys that when he has bad starts, the team offensively bails him out, where he leaves said game w/ a ND (no decision).... Which, when you would look at his record (before this loss) & combine with how good he looks when he's out there dealing, makes it look like he's light years better than what he is.....

 

He's had only had 4 starts were he's given up 3 or more runs. And yesterday he only gave up 1. One of the reasons why he has a 2.04 ERA (with 0 unearned runs allowed). It's the offense that's been crappy. This guys is as good, if not better, than advertised.

[B35 via Church]

He's had only had 4 starts were he's given up 3 or more runs. And yesterday he only gave up 1. One of the reasons why he has a 2.04 ERA (with 0 unearned runs allowed). It's the offense that's been crappy. This guys is as good, if not better, than advertised.

I know the offense sucks.... What I'm saying is, you have met fans that act like he's the second coming of christ (or, Seaver, at the least).... He's good, but he's not that good.... There isn't a pitcher in today's game where you actually feel like he's gonna win every 5th day or w/e - That's how he's advertised.... No way is he as good or better than that, IMO anyway.....

 

side note: Lol at the met fans that are blaming the dimensions of citifield as to why he lost...

On top of it, all of a sudden, watching Harvey starts is boring - just because he suffered his first loss......

[BreeddekalbL]

this is terrible! YANKEES CAN'T HIT TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AGAIN!!  FIRE LONG!!1 PACK UP THE TRUCK!!!! PACK IT UP!

[B35 via Church]

this is terrible! YANKEES CAN'T HIT TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AGAIN!!  FIRE LONG!!1 PACK UP THE TRUCK!!!! PACK IT UP!

What else is new.....

[BreeddekalbL]

my rant on the yankees

 

i would be saying the same thing in the first part too... and instead of wild thing its directed at kevin long the hitting coach

[alejr88]

This ain't Kevin Long's fault, look at the scrubs the Yankees are sending out there. Brignac, Nix, Stewart, Wells, Neal...the only one who is hitting and is about to cool off is Gardner. David Adams already got exposed. Tex left the game with a weak wrist injury (the same one he injured earlier this year). Youk got hurt (again). Hafner looks lost out there or maybe he's hiding an injury? Cano is having a good season but is playing this year hit or miss.

 

Yanks have never played well at Angel Stadium throughout the years, not surprised to see them lose over there.

 

In other news, Rays pitcher Alex Cobb was knocked unconscious with a line drive at his head and turns out he got a mild concussion. That's the 2nd pitcher who gets hit right at their head. Damn.

[7LineFan]

This ain't Kevin Long's fault, look at the scrubs the Yankees are sending out there. Brignac, Nix, Stewart, Wells, Neal...the only one who is hitting and is about to cool off is Gardner. David Adams already got exposed. Tex left the game with a weak wrist injury (the same one he injured earlier this year). Youk got hurt (again). Hafner looks lost out there or maybe he's hiding an injury? Cano is having a good season but is playing this year hit or miss.

 

Yanks have never played well at Angel Stadium throughout the years, not surprised to see them lose over there.

It's so funny that the same people who were praising Long for helping Wells and Overbay regain their form at the beginning of the year all of a sudden want him canned not even three months later... Long can control mechanics, not whether a batter whiffs in the heat of the moment... which the Yankees seem to be doing a lot lately...

 

Yankees have been through this before and they've gotten out of it, all it takes is patience. We're still only three games back.

[GojiMet86]

Just lol at that. Yankees lose a couple of games and all of a sudden it's off with the coach's head. And they're in second place, and like 12 games over .500.

[GojiMet86]

me="GojiMet86" post="683641" timestamp="1371478263"]Just lol at that. Yankees lose a couple of games and all of a sudden it's off with the coach's head. And they're in second place, and like 12 games over .500. 7 games above .500, I mean.

[BreeddekalbL]

wild thing come to life!

http://deadspin.com/on-first-pitches-as-a-cub-henry-rodriguez-hit-ump-and-513962176

[alejr88]

wild thing come to life!

http://deadspin.com/on-first-pitches-as-a-cub-henry-rodriguez-hit-ump-and-513962176

 

LOL Charlie Sheen would be proud!

[BreeddekalbL]

manny leaving taiwan for japan?!  atleast the yankees split but that still enforces one thing! TRADE HUGHES!!!

[alejr88]

manny leaving taiwan for japan?! atleast the yankees split but that still enforces one thing! TRADE HUGHES!!!

No, just swap him and Adam Warren..he'll be fine in the pen. I want him gone by next year and hopefully the Yankees get a draft pick if he declines the qualifying offer.

 

 

If they trade him now or July, they're not getting nothing for him out in the market especially since he'll be a free agent this year.

 

Meanwhile Michael Pineda is knocking on the door.

[GojiMet86]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/science/evolution-on-the-mound-why-humans-throw-so-well.html?ref=science&_r=0

 

 

Scientists Unlock Mystery in Evolution of Pitchers

 

 

Barton Silverman/The New York Times

The Yankees pitcher Mariano Rivera illustrates how humans are able to store elastic energy, using a cocking motion, to throw much harder than other primates.

By JAMES GORMAN

Published: June 26, 2013

 

No one knows whether Homo erectus, the early ancestor of both the Yankees and the Red Sox, threw the split-finger fastball.

But he could have, according to a group of scientists who offer new evidence that the classic overhand throw used by baseball players at all positions, and by snowball, rock and tomato hurlers of all ages, is an evolutionary adaptation dependent on several changes in anatomy. They first appeared, the researchers say, around 1.8 million years ago, when humans were most likely beginning to hunt big game and needed to throw sharp objects hard and fast.

No other primate throws with anything comparable to human force. Chimpanzees, who are much, much stronger, pound for pound, than human beings, can throw, 

. But the best an adult male can do is about 20 miles per hour. A 12-year-old human pitcher can easily throw three times that fast.

Clearly, the reason is not muscle strength, according to Neil Roach of George Washington University, first author of a report in the journal Nature released on Wednesday. Using motion-capture video, Dr. Roach and his colleagues analyzed the throwing motion of 20 college athletes, who hurled baseballs at a target about 100 feet away, with and without a brace that restricted shoulder motion.

They analyzed the structure of the shoulder and upper arm, the motion and the forces involved, and concluded, first, that muscles alone cannot account for how hard and fast humans throw. The shoulder and arm and the rest of the body involved in the throwing motion must be storing elastic energy, like the long tendon of a kangaroo when it hops, or the human Achilles’ tendon in running and jumping, they said.

“You’re storing energy in your shoulder,” Dr. Roach said, speaking from Africa, where he was heading to Lake Turkana to look at fossil footprints of human ancestors about a million and a half years old. The storage occurs in the cocking motion, when a thrower brings hand and ball back, preparing to throw. “It works just like a slingshot would. You’re actually stretching the ligaments.”

Several developments in anatomy allowed humans to throw this way, he said, including a waist that allows twisting and a relatively open shoulder, compared with those of other primates like chimpanzees.

Looking at the fossil record, Dr. Roach and colleagues put the moment at which these changes came together in one body at about 1.8 million years ago, when Homo erectus first appeared. “It’s possible that Homo erectus could throw as fast as we do,” Dr. Roach said.

What objects he threw is an open question. The most likely are rocks or some sharp projectile in hunting, Dr. Roach said. Homo sapiens, the species that would eventually form both the American and National Leagues, did not appear until about 200,000 years ago, and did not evolve the intellectual power and wisdom to invent the rules of baseball until the 19th century.

The ideas that human throwing ability is unique and that it was important in human evolution and related to hunting are as old as Darwin. And pitching coaches and experts in sports medicine have long analyzed the details of the throwing motion, which is used in a number of sports. What is new in Dr. Roach’s study, say anatomists, is the idea of the shoulder’s functioning like a slingshot, and tying the specific anatomical changes to the fossil record.

“I think it’s really a great paper,” said David Carrier, a biologist at the University of Utah who studies biomechanics and its role in the evolution of hominins and other vertebrates. He said the paper provided “a strong biomechanical basis to say we’re specialized for throwing.”

Susan Larson, an anatomist at Stony Brook University School of Medicine who studies human and primate evolution, said the idea that the cocking motion stores energy was “a very novel interpretation.”

This kind of energy storage, like stretching a rubber band and then releasing it, is well known in animals and in human anatomy, but there is “almost always some kind of long tendon” that serves the function of the rubber band, she said.

“There are no cordlike tendons that make a likely place to store energy” in the shoulder and the rest of the body involved in overhand throwing, she said. “I can’t say I can find any fault with the study,” she said, referring to the analysis of energy involved in throwing. “But I keep thinking, ‘Where are we storing this?’”

Dr. Larson did disagree, however, on the throwing ability of Homo erectus. “That’s where Neil and I part ways,” she said, referring to Dr. Roach. “I don’t believe that Homo erectus had the broad shoulders that would have given him the ability” to throw the way humans do.

Neanderthals, she said, probably did, and perhaps the common ancestor of humans and Neanderthals, putting the evolution of humanlike throwing ability at sometime hundreds of thousands of years ago, but not 1.8 million.

Throwing overhand, she said, is clearly an innate human ability, but not one that everyone uses. “I throw like a girl,” she said, hastening to point out that many girls and women throw hard and fast with the classic cocked arm, sideways body turn and forward step of the overhand throw. There are no anatomical differences in the sexes, other than the obvious size and strength, that would make women less proficient at throwing.

Dr. Carrier said he also thought the overhand throw was an innate human behavior. “It’s like walking,” he said. “You have to practice.” Everyone who is able practices walking, but not everyone practices throwing.

“My daughter and son are formidable competitors in water balloon fights,” Dr. Carrier said, using the overhand throw, a technique they learned on their own in the heat of sibling combat. In contrast, he said, some things require teaching. His children, like others, “required years of coaching to be effective at swimming.”

If it is so natural, then why do pitchers have such problems with their shoulders? “Not because throwing isn’t natural,” said Glenn Fleisig, research director of the American Sports Medicine Institute in Birmingham, Ala., and a specialist in pitching mechanics.

“What’s not natural is throwing a hundred pitches from a mound every fifth day,” he said. “That amount of throwing at that intensity is not natural.”

A version of this article appeared in print on June 27, 2013, on page A3 of the New York edition with the headline: Scientists Unlock Mystery in Evolution of Pitchers.

 

 

 

 

 

[B35 via Church]

It's truly amazing that you don't have near as many pitchers out with injuries, for as many pitches as they throw during the course of a (calendar) year - not just in-game pitches, but pitches thrown in BP, during the offseason, etc. as well...... What's also not natural is these players taking supplements (not necessarily HGH & steroids, but they're definitely included) however often they're doing so, to get by, game-by-game.....

 

You're gonna start seeing the de-evolution of professional athletes as human beings, have this trend keep up.... One reason I'm starting to get turned off by baseball in general.... Everytime you look around, someone is hurt - and the rate at which you're hearing about players getting injured (as of the past few seasons, it seems to me), is increasing......

 

This is not just specific to baseball either/though..... With ticket prices increasing & dad's (wanting to) take their sons/rest of the family out to "the game", with one reason being to see the star of the team you're rooting for - If the chances of that player getting injured is increasing, why even bother to go to these games.....

[Grand Concourse]

It's so funny that the same people who were praising Long for helping Wells and Overbay regain their form at the beginning of the year all of a sudden want him canned not even three months later... Long can control mechanics, not whether a batter whiffs in the heat of the moment... which the Yankees seem to be doing a lot lately...

 

Yankees have been through this before and they've gotten out of it, all it takes is patience. We're still only three games back.

Not saying this is aimed at me, but the lack of situational hitting has been an issue especially in 2012's ALCS. Kuroda is clearly not getting the run support to win a close game. He should be doing better than a 7-5 record. He's been the true ace of the team this year (imo he should get a nod for the ASG because of his low era).

 

No, just swap him and Adam Warren..he'll be fine in the pen. I want him gone by next year and hopefully the Yankees get a draft pick if he declines the qualifying offer.

 

 

If they trade him now or July, they're not getting nothing for him out in the market especially since he'll be a free agent this year.

 

Meanwhile Michael Pineda is knocking on the door.

I dunno, I still think it can't hurt to see what team might be interested in him as a half year rental. Yankees haven't done too well with their draft picks especially when it comes to pitching (lately in the higher levels). He seems to do ok if it's a pitcher's park. But whatever is done to keep him out of the rotation (pen or even a demotion, if not traded, I don't care).

 

At this point (been away for a bit only to find out they hit a big drought), I'd like to see what Pineda has to offer since Kuroda and Andy can't stay forever. I'm still a bit baffled about how badly Montero did in seattle to be demoted. So far at least the trade doesn't seem to be a total bust if Pineda can regain even some of the form from 2011.

[7LineFan]

Not saying this is aimed at me, but the lack of situational hitting has been an issue especially in 2012's ALCS. Kuroda is clearly not getting the run support to win a close game. He should be doing better than a 7-5 record. He's been the true ace of the team this year (imo he should get a nod for the ASG because of his low era).

 

I dunno, I still think it can't hurt to see what team might be interested in him as a half year rental. Yankees haven't done too well with their draft picks especially when it comes to pitching (lately in the higher levels). He seems to do ok if it's a pitcher's park. But whatever is done to keep him out of the rotation (pen or even a demotion, if not traded, I don't care).

 

At this point (been away for a bit only to find out they hit a big drought), I'd like to see what Pineda has to offer since Kuroda and Andy can't stay forever. I'm still a bit baffled about how badly Montero did in seattle to be demoted. So far at least the trade doesn't seem to be a total bust if Pineda can regain even some of the form from 2011.

I'm actually having my doubts now that they're ever going to get out of it. It's come to the point that as soon as they go down by three or more runs I turn off the TV because I know they just can't come back from that anymore.

 

It's funny how much of a polar opposite this team is to last year... last year, all home runs, and a slow start but they heated up before the all star break thanks to an impressive 10-game win streak against the National League. This year, they bolted off the blocks and then fell flat at the 25-meter mark.

 

I have a feeling that Andy, if he continues to underperform like he has since he got back from the DL, is gonna call it quits for good. I've also heard that Kuroda wants to finish his career in Japan.

[Grand Concourse]

Yeah I wasn't expecting Andy to be perfect, but I didn't think his decline would be this sudden. Kuroda, well I know he's getting $15mil to stay, but at some point I'd wonder how demoralizing it must be to pitch with such a stingy run support from a team that's supposedly built to  hit. Yankees won't be able to afford his $15 mil anyway and I wouldn't be surprised he goes along with any other guys not under contract for next year.

 

Funny you say about the interleauge thing, this whole every day interleague stuff really screwed things up more than I thought (other than how teams like the Mets are still on the hook to make up that Minnesota game). I also forgot this was the first time the Dodgers set foot in the Bronx since the 1981 ws. I really wanted to watch at least one of those games too...

 

But though I figure Baltimore is probably legit, I never thought Boston would be staying in 1st this long. The semi-surprise was Toronto being last. Semi because I never thought they were going to be contenders with all the free agents signings, but never thought they'd be last (even if it is by just a few games).

[7LineFan]

Yeah I wasn't expecting Andy to be perfect, but I didn't think his decline would be this sudden. Kuroda, well I know he's getting $15mil to stay, but at some point I'd wonder how demoralizing it must be to pitch with such a stingy run support from a team that's supposedly built to  hit. Yankees won't be able to afford his $15 mil anyway and I wouldn't be surprised he goes along with any other guys not under contract for next year.

 

Funny you say about the interleauge thing, this whole every day interleague stuff really screwed things up more than I thought (other than how teams like the Mets are still on the hook to make up that Minnesota game). I also forgot this was the first time the Dodgers set foot in the Bronx since the 1981 ws. I really wanted to watch at least one of those games too...

 

But though I figure Baltimore is probably legit, I never thought Boston would be staying in 1st this long. The semi-surprise was Toronto being last. Semi because I never thought they were going to be contenders with all the free agents signings, but never thought they'd be last (even if it is by just a few games).

Kuroda spent all that time with the Dodgers without much run support and never (outwardly) complained. He'd probably come back if he wanted to, but I've heard he's been planning to return to Japan for quite some time.

 

No one figured Boston would be in first this long. Everyone pegged the Yankees and the Red Sox as cellar dwellers. The Yankees certainly look the part right now, but Boston doesn't. Who knows though, they may just go the way of last year's Mets and drop off the cliff after the All-Star Break. But it's really depressing when a team goes from being aggravating and exasperating to "yeah, they can't do it, what else is new". Look on the bright side though, the Yankees are going to Minnesota, and even when they're doing badly they always dominate the Twins, so theoretically this should be something of a breather.

 

Don't count Toronto out even though they're back under .500 because they might just go on another impressive run.

[Grand Concourse]

Very good points. ^