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RtrainBlues

Why are LIRR/Metro North fares so high compared to the subway?

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A 55 minute ride from Penn Station to Hempstead during rush-hour (peak direction) now costs $11.00, but a 55 minute subway ride from Coney Island to Midtown will cost $2.50 starting tomorrow.  The Hempstead line makes a ton of stops like a subway, so why is it so much more expensive?  Is it because of all the LIRR ticket takers per train and the salary, pension, health benefits, etc they get?  Does the electricity cost 5 times as much to haul the LIRR versus the D train?  Would the fare drop to $4.00 (such as in Washington DC) if they automated the fare gates and no longer had to pay the salary + benefits of a large LIRR crew per train?

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LIRR/MNRR fares are based on distance, not per ride like the subway. 

 

As far as train crew sizes, while I can't speak for LIRR because I'm not familiar with the territory or platforms, however on MNRR it would be dangerous to have less than two conductors on most trains.  There are numerous stations that the conductor can not safely operate the doors with out a assistant getting on the platform to signal the conductor that it is safe to close the doors due to the curves on the platform. 

 

Other reasons that there has to be at least one conductor on trains is due to FRA regulations.  In the event of a back up move the conductor has to be on the leading end.  In the event of a train control apparatus failure the conductor has more responsibility with train operation, etc...

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Los lineas de LIRR/MNR son mas largos de lineas del metro de NYC. (and LIRR/MNR are distanced based too lol)

Edited by mtattrain

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LIRR/MNRR fares are based on distance, not per ride like the subway. 

 

As far as train crew sizes, while I can't speak for LIRR because I'm not familiar with the territory or platforms, however on MNRR it would be dangerous to have less than two conductors on most trains.  There are numerous stations that the conductor can not safely operate the doors with out a assistant getting on the platform to signal the conductor that it is safe to close the doors due to the curves on the platform. 

 

Other reasons that there has to be at least one conductor on trains is due to FRA regulations.  In the event of a back up move the conductor has to be on the leading end.  In the event of a train control apparatus failure the conductor has more responsibility with train operation, etc...

And also LIRR/MNRR are commuter trains, not subways... I've seen the conductor signaling at a few stops along the Hudson Line like Yankees Stadium.

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A 90 min bus and subway ride from Penn Station To Hempstead costs $2.50  ;)

Yeah, the (E) from Penn to Jamaica, then take the N6 bus. There probably are some people that do that already to avoid the LIRR fare.

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LIRR/MNRR fares are based on distance, not per ride like the subway. 

 

As far as train crew sizes, while I can't speak for LIRR because I'm not familiar with the territory or platforms, however on MNRR it would be dangerous to have less than two conductors on most trains.  There are numerous stations that the conductor can not safely operate the doors with out a assistant getting on the platform to signal the conductor that it is safe to close the doors due to the curves on the platform. 

 

Other reasons that there has to be at least one conductor on trains is due to FRA regulations.  In the event of a back up move the conductor has to be on the leading end.  In the event of a train control apparatus failure the conductor has more responsibility with train operation, etc...

 

LIRR stations have a different problem, where some stations can only open doors on certain cars (Forest Hills, Kew Gardens), but this is something that can be achieved on MTA rolling stock from the operator's cab, so it should be feasible to implement on the LIRR's M7s.

 

A bigger problem is that several stations had or have huge gaps (the gap at Woodside was measured to be about 6 inches). LIRR conductors could be used to assist elderly or wheelchair bound passengers, although in practice I'm not even sure if this happens.

 

Also, keep in mind that LIRR is standing-room-only past Jamaica, and that lower prices = more demand. I don't think the LIRR or MNRR have the capacity to soak up the riders that would come if fares were lowered.

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One benefit of a relatively higher fare is a lack of panhandling.  Don't have to deal with the skells begging for money or selling M&Ms on the railroad.

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One benefit of a relatively higher fare is a lack of panhandling.  Don't have to deal with the skells begging for money or selling M&Ms on the railroad.

LMAO!! Very true... It eliminates most of the riff raff, though somehow not all of it. I still see a few sketchy characters get on here and there that manage to scrape up the fare but since it's more almost 4 times the subway fare in some cases it's not too often. Hell one way for me now during the rush hour from Riverdale will be $11.00 ($8.50 for MetroNorth + $2.50 for the Hudson Rail Link).

 

Of late I haven't been using it so much because traffic hasn't been that bad so I've been sticking with the express bus which is now $6.00 each way but IMO much more comfortable and quicker at night.  30 - 35 minutes at night versus 40 - 45 mins via MetroNorth & Hudson Rail link.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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LIRR stations have a different problem, where some stations can only open doors on certain cars (Forest Hills, Kew Gardens), but this is something that can be achieved on MTA rolling stock from the operator's cab, so it should be feasible to implement on the LIRR's M7s.

 

A bigger problem is that several stations had or have huge gaps (the gap at Woodside was measured to be about 6 inches). LIRR conductors could be used to assist elderly or wheelchair bound passengers, although in practice I'm not even sure if this happens.

 

We have the same problems with the platform lengths.  For example on two of my trains today will have to cut off two cars for Williams Bridge, Woodlawn and Wakefield which are 4 car platforms and a few stops later are 2 car platforms at Melrose and Tremont.  The M7A's are not sophisticated enough to be able to isolate cars automatically.  Then to add to the problem if there are bridge plates erected due to track work, then only one or two doors can be opened.

 

Our conductors already assist wheel chairs on and off the trains by setting up ramps.  Yesterday as an example I had three wheelchairs getting on at Fleetwood going to GCT. 

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LMAO!! Very true... It eliminates most of the riff raff, though somehow not all of it. I still see a few sketchy characters get on here and there that manage to scrape up the fare but since it's more almost 4 times the subway fare in some cases it's not too often. Hell one way for me now during the rush hour from Riverdale will be $11.00 ($8.50 for MetroNorth + $2.50 for the Hudson Rail Link).

 

Of late I haven't been using it so much because traffic hasn't been that bad so I've been sticking with the express bus which is now $6.00 each way but IMO much more comfortable and quicker at night.  30 - 35 minutes at night versus 40 - 45 mins via MetroNorth & Hudson Rail link.

 

 

Well VG8 would you add as 'riff raff' college aged/young adults (mostly white) who are so drunk, they act like jerks mainly on the last late night trains leaving GCT? :o

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A 55 minute ride from Penn Station to Hempstead during rush-hour (peak direction) now costs $11.00, but a 55 minute subway ride from Coney Island to Midtown will cost $2.50 starting tomorrow.  The Hempstead line makes a ton of stops like a subway, so why is it so much more expensive?  Is it because of all the LIRR ticket takers per train and the salary, pension, health benefits, etc they get?  Does the electricity cost 5 times as much to haul the LIRR versus the D train?  Would the fare drop to $4.00 (such as in Washington DC) if they automated the fare gates and no longer had to pay the salary + benefits of a large LIRR crew per train?

The Washington, DC subway system fares are based on distance and time of day (off-peak, peak, and peak of the peak). You would find those fares more comparable to LIRR and Metro North. NOTE: The Washington subway is a one person operation.

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LIRR stations have a different problem, where some stations can only open doors on certain cars (Forest Hills, Kew Gardens), but this is something that can be achieved on MTA rolling stock from the operator's cab, so it should be feasible to implement on the LIRR's M7s.

 

A bigger problem is that several stations had or have huge gaps (the gap at Woodside was measured to be about 6 inches). LIRR conductors could be used to assist elderly or wheelchair bound passengers, although in practice I'm not even sure if this happens.

 

Also, keep in mind that LIRR is standing-room-only past Jamaica, and that lower prices = more demand. I don't think the LIRR or MNRR have the capacity to soak up the riders that would come if fares were lowered.

 

And of course Little Neck (or what was it? It was one station on the PW branch that also is a 2 car only station)

 
 
 
 
 

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Well VG8 would you add as 'riff raff' college aged/young adults (mostly white) who are so drunk, they act like jerks mainly on the last late night trains leaving GCT? :o

Ummmm yeah, why wouldn't I? As a matter of fact a week or two ago there was a really obnoxious older Russian couple on the BxM1.  They weren't regulars either because they clearly didn't understand the idea of not yacking on the damn bus.  The B/O even came on and asked that folks not use their cell phones and everyone turned around and looked at them as if to say do you get it... No talking and they continued yacking and arguing in rather loud tones... I was sitting two seats in front of them and was getting a headache.  By the time 96th came I had had enough and turned around an started balking at them and told them to SHUT UP!  People kept trying to give them hints but apparently they didn't get it so someone had to be blunt... I mean early in the morning people do not want to hear all of that nonsense... Then the male had the audacity to ask me why? I told asked in a rhetorical manner, do you hear anyone else talking on the bus? 

 

On another BxM1 another non-regular was on the bus yacking about recipes early in the morning.  The lady in front of me (a regular) mumbled "Bitch" as if to say what an inconsiderate bitch.  Eventually I got sick of it and asked her to lower her voice and reminded her that no cell phones are allowed and she apologized and told her mom she had to get off.  <_<

 

I've seen other women on the BxM1 tell cell phone yappers that either no cell phones were allowed and literally embarrass them in the process or tell them to lower their voice in very firm tones. I agree... If they want to do that nonsense, do it elsewhere.

 

Speaking of riff-raff and obnoxious people, where are the quiet cars located on the MetroNorth trains??

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Quiet car on LIRR not working well either.

 

When I was late for Nassau County Transit Commitee Meeting last December, I decided to seat on last car on Babylon Traion (M7) at Woodside Station,

Passenger on four seat (two seats facing each other) was talking loudly in suppose to be Quiet Car, but I didn't say anything.

At that time, I almost miss my stop at Jamaica Station for Oyster Bay connection because I didn't know rear car will not open at Jamaica Station, so I rushed out where conductors were and I knocked on door and he let me off.

 

It's same situation as Bee-Line buses, but some people they don't care about passengers.

Edited by FamousNYLover

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Yeah, the (E) from Penn to Jamaica, then take the N6 bus. There probably are some people that do that already to avoid the LIRR fare.

I thought it was N31/32 to the (A) but hey

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Yeah, the (E) from Penn to Jamaica, then take the N6 bus. There probably are some people that do that already to avoid the LIRR fare.

 

 

I thought it was N31/32 to the (A) but hey

Oh no, that's just way too long. (A) to N31/N32 to Hempstead would probably take 2.5 hours!

 

(E) to (F) to N6 is the best route

 

179th St Special (E) to N6 Express would be a nice ride.

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Channel 2 News reported Sunday night that a Metro North conductor made $250,000 last year. Is that possible? I know there's overtime but this figure really stretches the imagination.

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Channel 2 News reported Sunday night that a Metro North conductor made $250,000 last year. Is that possible? I know there's overtime but this figure really stretches the imagination.

It's not impossible... Seniority and overtime... I know some B/Os that work 70 or more hours a week... Lots of OT...

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I agree the Commuter Rail fares are getting out of hand, it doesn't even get much mention on the news (Mocker). So subway and bus riders get to a quarter more for a ride, meanwhile, here in Westbury a Peak One Way now costs $12.50. We're only 5 miles or so from the city line, yet we're paying more than double the cost of an express bus ride. The poor folks out in zone 10 (Ronk) now have to pay $17.50 for a peak. Monthly tickets range between $280 to $380, that's well over 2 times the cost of a monthly unlimited metrocard. And lets not forget seniors and the disabled on a limited income are forced to pay peak fares on AM PEAK trains, a practice that I dont think is done anywhere else (I know not in NJ). Ridership stats I saw mention 300,000 daily LIRR riders, figure 200,000 of them buy monthlies the MTA gets $66 Mil in revenue just from those. It does seem the suburbs get soaked by the MTA, to fund lower fares in the city. Zone based fares in NJ for a comparable distance seem to be much lower. I used to do the bus to subway thing when I needed to be in NYC early, esp for catching NJT at Port Authority. It does take much longer, almost an hour. Say I need to get a 7:30am 319 out of PABT, instead of taking the 5:50am or 6:30am(tight) train, I have to take the n22 that leaves Hicksville at 5am, and arrives at the 179st subway at around 6:10am. Lately though the subway crowding has gotten out of control, the F's already have most seats taken by the time they pull out of 179st, and then we get slammed at Jackson Heights where the platforms are overflowing with people, and it's only around 6:35am! The train gets crush loaded, its pretty unpleasant. I dunno what's been going on, started this past fall with the mobs at Jackson Heights, dunno why they cant stay upstairs on the 7 where they belong. Cant deal with that so I'm back to the train. I just wish we had another option such as an express bus. I think some folks out in Suffolk will discover the Bolt Bus which is much cheaper. But Nassau has no express bus, except for the Go Buses I see around Glen Cove and Roslyn. Only other option is taking the 4:48AM LIRR at Westbury, the last off peak train, thats pretty early!!! I think LIRR/MNRR fares need to be reduced by 20%, and the subway/bus fares should go up to $3. For some reason the MTA thinks more rich people must be in the suburbs since they look at us like an ATM, yet I think there's more wealth in the city (esp Manhattan) now. 

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Channel 2 News reported Sunday night that a Metro North conductor made $250,000 last year. Is that possible? I know there's overtime but this figure really stretches the imagination.

 

 

It's not impossible... Seniority and overtime... I know some B/Os that work 70 or more hours a week... Lots of OT...

 

No, it's not impossible but not likely.  With the recent  mandate from the FRA regarding hours of service, the amount of overtime has been cut back because of the amount of rest required. 

 

That aside, what is the difference if one conductor made $250K or 2 made $125K or 4 made $62.5K?  The bottom line is if the jobs have to be filled, who cares who worked it?

Edited by Truckie

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@FamousNewYork: Ah, so they have introduced those quiet cars at the LIRR also now. We have them here too in The Netherlands and people just don't get it. They keeping yapping and making noise anyway. Apperantly more needs to be done since it's also not working on LIRR.

 



 



 





 



 




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