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BrooklynBus

Police are Arresting People Every Day for Minor Infractions

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I agree, they tend to focus on the little things more than the bigger picture.

 

Also, man that guy commenting in that article, "policeluvr," is a real scumbag.  Everyone in New York doesn't have rights...except for the police.  Are you kidding me?

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I agree, they tend to focus on the little things more than the bigger picture.

 

Also, man that guy commenting in that article, "policeluvr," is a real scumbag.  Everyone in New York doesn't have rights...except for the police.  Are you kidding me?

I say everybody commenting was either f**k the police or ass kissing the police seriously. The performers need to be left alone. The bums need to go though. The police should focus on the thieves and where violent crime is and to stop the occasional farebeater. Farebeaters are from all races some will shock you saw a few white babes just duck under the turnstile. SMH.

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All four examples are cases that warranted police action.

1. It didn't say the specifics of how the person was taking up multiple seats, but extending out your feet or laying down encourages riders to sleep on the train, which not only causes problems and delays when they get to the end of the line and need to be removed from the train, but also leaves them vulnerable to theft.

2. Walking between subway cars IS dangerous. People fall between the cars, which puts them on the tracks. Just because the train is at a terminal doesn't mean that the train isn't going to start moving with someone stuck between the cars. The nostalgia trains have supervision riding in every single car who can keep a look out for someone who may slip and fall. And yes, before the days of A/C, keeping the end doors open was the only solution for ventilation.

3. Your failure to read the signs does not give you the excuse to beat the fares. Each station entrance is clearly marked for the lines and direction of service. Most of the time, if you explain what happened to a human station agent, they will check where your card was last swiped and let you back in, and just about every station has one SOMEWHERE.

4. It's a bit of a stretch, but there have been plenty of times that crowds of people gathered around performers (seriously, where do these people come from - I thought NYers were all about getting everywhere as fast as possible, not standing around!) have made it more difficult, and sometimes dangerous (hello, UNION SQUARE!) to navigate the station.

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Mutts tend to engage in mutt-like behavior.  What are the odds that some skell jumping a turnstile will pop on a warrant? ;)

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I say everybody commenting was either f**k the police or ass kissing the police seriously. The performers need to be left alone. The bums need to go though. The police should focus on the thieves and where violent crime is and to stop the occasional farebeater. Farebeaters are from all races some will shock you saw a few white babes just duck under the turnstile. SMH.

 

I once saw an Asian man in his seventies duck under the turnstile.  It took him like a full minute for him to upright himself. 

 

All four examples are cases that warranted police action.

 

1. It didn't say the specifics of how the person was taking up multiple seats, but extending out your feet or laying down encourages riders to sleep on the train, which not only causes problems and delays when they get to the end of the line and need to be removed from the train, but also leaves them vulnerable to theft.

 

2. Walking between subway cars IS dangerous. People fall between the cars, which puts them on the tracks. Just because the train is at a terminal doesn't mean that the train isn't going to start moving with someone stuck between the cars. The nostalgia trains have supervision riding in every single car who can keep a look out for someone who may slip and fall. And yes, before the days of A/C, keeping the end doors open was the only solution for ventilation.

 

3. Your failure to read the signs does not give you the excuse to beat the fares. Each station entrance is clearly marked for the lines and direction of service. Most of the time, if you explain what happened to a human station agent, they will check where your card was last swiped and let you back in, and just about every station has one SOMEWHERE.

 

4. It's a bit of a stretch, but there have been plenty of times that crowds of people gathered around performers (seriously, where do these people come from - I thought NYers were all about getting everywhere as fast as possible, not standing around!) have made it more difficult, and sometimes dangerous (hello, UNION SQUARE!) to navigate the station.

 

Never said these cases didn't warrant police action.  Those could have been in the form of a warning or a summons.  The question asked was why were arrests necessary?

 

Regarding Point 2, walking between subway cars is no more dangerous than crossing the street.  You just have to be careful around turns. Most of the people falling from between the cars were doing things they should not have been doing, not because they were simply changing cars.  As far as the terminals, you have enough warning that the train will leave because an announcement is made about ten seconds before that the train leaves, so it is perfectly safe to change cars there.  The reason it is not allowed, besides providing revenue, is that the MTA wants to reduce their liability from lawsuits by unscrupulous lawyers in case someone does fall and government no longer trusts people to use their own judgment.  Everything now needs to be legislated. So instead, they incur lawsuits by needlessly arresting people and settling out of court. Makes so much more sense. Doesn't it?

 

Regarding Point 3, you don't state that you may have to walk as much as 600 feet to find that human providing you no where the entrance is located where he is stationed.

 

Regarding Point 4, if the MTA is so opposed to crowding why does the Arts for Transit Program that allows musical performances on mezzanines and platforms?  You don't see a contradiction here?

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4. It's a bit of a stretch, but there have been plenty of times that crowds of people gathered around performers (seriously, where do these people come from - I thought NYers were all about getting everywhere as fast as possible, not standing around!) have made it more difficult, and sometimes dangerous (hello, UNION SQUARE!) to navigate the station.

 

Interesting that you mention this. That's exactly why I avoid Union Square at all costs. This very reason.

 

I did see a really cool breakdancing session one time. When I asked who they were they identified themselves as RockSteady Crew. There was a girl from Japan in the mix with sick and very sexy, well choreographed dancing moves. Caught the vid on my blackberry then lost the dang phone! 

 

But otherwise, Union Square is one chaotic station, I would rather avoid even bothering with that station at all costs because of the potential for confrontations with frustrated straphangers in their commuter rage or/and scammers and the unruly hipsters coming in from the bars intoxicated and ready to start trouble. 

 

Before I even get into the core of this discussion regarding the NYPD controversy on this gentlemen  I have a question: Is the quota on issuing summons at 400 tickets per month? And is this why the POs are all scrambling in activity at the end of every month? Are they given special tasks and assignments by sergeants concerning focusing on priorities over particular and specific infractions over others? This is what I keep on hearing. Forgive me I am not a civil servant I'm just a mere computer tech hence my naive questions as I am unsure on the validity of the sources I was reading on the net. Thanks in advance and looking forward to the answers.

 

​Edit: We have IP Board glitches, had to keep on re-editing....

Edited by realizm

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Interesting that you mention this. That's exactly why I avoid Union Square at all costs. This very reason.

 

I did see a really cool breakdancing session one time. When I asked who they were they identified themselves as RockSteady Crew. There was a girl from Japan in the mix with sick and very sexy, well choreographed dancing moves. Caught the vid on my blackberry then lost the dang phone! 

 

But otherwise, Union Square is one chaotic station, I would rather avoid even bothering with that station at all costs because of the potential for confrontations with frustrated straphangers in their commuter rage or/and scammers and the unruly hipsters coming in from the bars intoxicated and ready to start trouble. 

 

Before I even get into the core of this discussion regarding the NYPD controversy on this gentlemen  I have a question: Is the quota on issuing summons at 400 tickets per month? And is this why the POs are all scrambling in activity at the end of every month? Are they given special tasks and assignments by sergeants concerning focusing on bagging perps for particular ans specific  infractions as a priority over dealing with apprehending perps over other minor infractions? This is what I keep on hearing. Forgive me I am not a civil servant I'm just a mere computer tech hence my naive questions as I am unsure on the validity of the sources I was reading on the net. Thanks in advance and looking forward to the answers.

unruly hipsters are hilarious actually. I faced commuter rage the hard way when I was at stamford MNRR ct I was dumb enough to be walking against the wall to the side I got PWNED by a commuter in a rush moral of the story at rush hr or busy stations stay away from the wall and when a commuter is in a rush get out the way or you will get owned. She apologized but I got out the way and let her pass since I understand that she is in a rush and respect that.

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Why are so many customers always walking between cars anyway? If you're at the terminal, WALK ON THE PLATFORM. It seems like the riders have nothing better to do than play musical chairs across the entire train. Find a seat, stay seated until your stop is announced, and enjoy the ride, and you won't have to worry about spending the night in jail.
 

Edited by Snowblock
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unruly hipsters are hilarious actually. I faced commuter rage the hard way when I was at stamford MNRR ct I was dumb enough to be walking against the wall to the side I got PWNED by a commuter in a rush moral of the story at rush hr or busy stations stay away from the wall and when a commuter is in a rush get out the way or you will get owned. She apologized but I got out the way and let her pass since I understand that she is in a rush and respect that.

 

I saw many fights break out by the bars falling into Union Square Station on the IRT all involving hipsters, actually pretty violent ones. They can be (to contrary belief) just as bad as the stereotypical gangbanger in many ways. And with the commuters again  they are ready to tackle you like they are going for the long stretch for the touchdown. It's ridiculous.

 

Aside from a few performances as I mentioned with RockSteady crew with people from here in NY and Japan tearing it up and some interesting MTA Arts funded performances, as Mr Rosen was touching upon in his response to SnowBlock, which can be quite entertaining, it's for these reasons I just completely avoid the station. I'll rather take the IND uptown then the Lex IRT for this reason when I have tech related contracts to fulfill in Midtown.

Edited by realizm

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Why are so many customers always walking between cars anyway? If you're at the terminal, WALK ON THE PLATFORM. It seems like the riders have nothing better to do than play musical chairs across the entire train. Find a seat, stay seated until your stop is announced, and enjoy the ride, and you won't have to worry about spending the night in jail.

 

 

I've done it. It's so that the C/O won't close the door and leave you out when you step on the platform to switch cars.

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Why are so many customers always walking between cars anyway? If you're at the terminal, WALK ON THE PLATFORM. It seems like the riders have nothing better to do than play musical chairs across the entire train. Find a seat, stay seated until your stop is announced, and enjoy the ride, and you won't have to worry about spending the night in jail.

 

 

Bums, unsanitary conditions, getting away from dangerous unruly passengers, many reasons. 

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Yeah, well I closed the door on 3 different people today alone who kept changing cars and were taking their sweet-ass time doing it. If I see you getting off the train, I'm going to assume that you're GETTING OFF THE TRAIN and I'm not going to hold the doors while you decide which car you want to ride in next (especially since there are some customers who do this EVERY SINGLE STOP). SIT DOWN AND ENJOY THE RIDE, jeez. Every car is the same, and 2768 isn't going to get you home any faster than 2767 will. If there is an unsafe/unsanitary condition in the car you're in, get my attention and I'll see if I can do anything about it.

The worst are these parents who DRAG THEIR KIDS from car to car to car to car. Not every car has a bum or thug in it, and now I need to make sure that I don't close my doors before all of your kids has the chance to get on.

Edited by Snowblock
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Yeah, well I closed the door on 3 different people today alone who kept changing cars and were taking their sweet-ass time doing it. If I see you getting off the train, I'm going to assume that you're GETTING OFF THE TRAIN and I'm not going to hold the doors while you decide which car you want to ride in next (especially since there are some customers who do this EVERY SINGLE STOP). SIT DOWN AND ENJOY THE RIDE, jeez. Every car is the same, and 2768 isn't going to get you home any faster than 2767 will. If there is an unsafe/unsanitary condition in the car you're in, get my attention and I'll see if I can do anything about it.

 

The worst are these parents who DRAG THEIR KIDS from car to car to car to car. Not every car has a bum or thug in it, and now I need to make sure that I don't close my doors before all of your kids has the chance to get on.

 

Now that I can understand, yes believe me I get annoyed with passengers who have a seriously lack of mental understanding where it comes to straphanger etiquette and I understand that you as the lead with the T/O must adhere to the timetable or face get written up. But please understand that all kids of crazy shit happens in the cars in split seconds that you may not be immediately aware of as the head of the train crew as the C/R. One time I was nearly attacked by a stalker. Obviously I had to cross between cars to get to the T/O. Long story, this guy stalked me in Brooklyn AND in Jamaica Queens. Obviously the T/O dispatched the cops. Obviously the plainclothed officers responded. Did they give me a summons? NO.

 

Again there are homeless people on the train who are seriously sick with contagious diseases or acting irrational and irate that are a cause for hazardous conditions health-wise and safety-wise. if you was a passenger and a person exibiting symptoms of TB was next to you coughing his bacteria all over the car, what? Stay there and become infected? I'll rather get a summons abd beat it at the MTA Abduction Bureau in Brooklyn. FYI: Police officers usually do not arrest ppl for illegally crossing cars UNLESS they may have a warrant for an arrest. Just for your information.

 

And remember this?

 

Link: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bloody_subway_hoGwqZ5cej726L4y0OSKzO

 

Yes I realize that incident occurred on a R68 (D) where the end doors are locked. But otherwise if something like that was happening, on a R160 or a car type that has the end doors unlocked obviously I will be breaking the minor infraction of illegally crossing between cars so I don't get stabbed. It's called common sense which overrides political correctness. I hope we have an understanding on my perspective here as I do yours as you have to do your job and perform well at that.

Edited by realizm

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As an appendange, SnowBlock I am not saying that you should not enforce the rules and regulations as you are in charge of operations on a given train on route while the T/O simply takes care of the mechanical duties of the car. But again sometimes passengers are FORCED to cross between cars for the aforementioned reasons. Particularly when they are in danger of being harassed, attacked or dealing with dangerously hazardous sanitary conditions. So please do not take offense, I am simply stating that sometimes circumstances will force a given straphanger to throw political correctness out the window. Even veteran police officers understand that and take that into consideration when unusually serious things happen where they will have to make careful decisions in how to handle the situations, overlooking certain aspects concerning civil offenses in the process.

 

Again in certain situations, sometimes protecting yourself trumps being ultra politically correct. Even as I understand that you have to deal with idiot passengers every day and how it can piss you off. If I was a C/R I would be equally pissed off by some of the people you are describing that holds up the timely run of a train. I have to get to work too and hate it when people hold doors etc. I gave such ppl a mouthful many times for things like that because my being on time for work as you being on time on your run are at stake. Something has to give.

 

Nuff said.

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This past Sunday evening at Fulton St, I boarded a Bx bound (4) train around 10:40 ish pm and there was some bum laying in some seats. It was the first car and I never thought there was a homeless dude moving around and yelling (must have been dreaming). Once the train got to BB-CH I switched cars once the doors opened. Of course you do this quickly and not take your time like those passengers Snowblock mentioned.

 

@realizm Of course if anyone is in danger, you can switch between cars. As long as you alert the C/R or T/O you'll be fine and shouldn't get a summons or arrested.

 

By the way, isn't all this wasting taxpayer money on arresting someone for crossing between subway cars or exiting through the emergency gates and making them going to court on something minor? Meanwhile there are murderers, rapists, pedophiles, and thieves out there and should be caught. Just give the perps higher fines and call it a day.

Edited by alejr88
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This past Sunday evening at Fulton St, I boarded a Bx bound (4) train around 10:40 ish pm and there was some bum laying in some seats. It was the first car and I never thought there was a homeless dude moving around and yelling (must have been dreaming). Once the train got to BB-CH I switched cars once the doors opened. Of course you do this quickly and not take your time like those passengers Snowblock mentioned.

 

@realizm Of course if anyone is in danger, you can switch between cars. As long as you alert the C/R or T/O you'll be fine and shouldn't get a summons or arrested.

 

By the way, isn't all this wasting taxpayer money on arresting someone for crossing between subway cars or exiting through the emergency gates and making them going to court on something minor? Meanwhile there are murderers, rapists, pedophiles, and thieves out there and should be caught. Just give the perps higher fines and call it a day.

 

No doubt. I know the train crew must adhere strictly to the time frame and be on time. They can get written up if they don't

 

Usually I stay in the C/R car (or T/O car) if at all possible. (safety reasons esp on late night). If I must cross cars, if the car I am in is crushloaded for example, or I see trouble, I wait until the train stops at the station, and quickly through the cab side window tell the C/R that I'm crossing cars, they acknowledge that and patiently waits until I board the next car. I know they gotta keep it moving and can't wait for stragglers. 

 

That's called subway etiquette in regards to MTA workers, they got a job to do so I try to work with them.  ;)

 

Mutts tend to engage in mutt-like behavior.  What are the odds that some skell jumping a turnstile will pop on a warrant? ;)

 

True. That's the reality of it. 

Edited by realizm

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I don't buy a lot of these excuses. If there was an unruly customer or unsanitary condition in one of the cars, I wouldn't have ONE person changing cars, I would have a BUNCH of people sticking their heads out the doors or running to the next car (which is something that I've seen more times than I'd like to remember). And they wouldn't KEEP change cars at every subsequent stop either. By all means, if there is a legitimate problem in that car, change cars. You aren't going to get a summons if you have something to report to the police officer who might be waiting for you, especially if you speak before they do.

And of course if somebody passes me and says they're going into the next car, I wait for them. However, I occasionally get someone who says "I want to go to the front car, can you hold the doors open for me?" I say NO, GET ON just as they reach the first door of the next car. Why should I delay all of the other customers on the train so that YOU can get to the exit staircase 10 seconds faster?

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 By all means, if there is a legitimate problem in that car, change cars. You aren't going to get a summons if you have something to report to the police officer who might be waiting for you, especially if you speak before they do.

 

And of course if somebody passes me and says they're going into the next car, I wait for them. However, I occasionally get someone who says "I want to go to the front car, can you hold the doors open for me?" I say NO, GET ON just as they reach the first door of the next car. Why should I delay all of the other customers on the train so that YOU can get to the exit staircase 10 seconds faster?

 

OK that's reasonable feedback. I'll keep that in mind if I run into trouble with unruly commuters.

 

On the "excuses" you've mentioned (I realize that you are saying this in general) just keep in mind that as C/Rs have to see to it as the head of train operations, and as they are responsible for keeping order in the train they are assigned to with their T/O partner, and report to central command directly involving issues, they may need to exersize discretion sometimes. It's understood that the train must stay on time and that a train crew cannot wait on passengers who waste precios time for train crew and straphangers alike by holding doors, and switching cars for other reasons other than legit emergencies.

 

Not directed at you but many customers complain because of the poor customer service skills that some transit workers display, hence the comments from others you are reading here. I can recall that was a problem with another agency, the DOL and that they actually hired customer service managers on contract from major retail chains to train their employees on customer service. Just throwing this fact out there.

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I don't buy a lot of these excuses. If there was an unruly customer or unsanitary condition in one of the cars, I wouldn't have ONE person changing cars, I would have a BUNCH of people sticking their heads out the doors or running to the next car (which is something that I've seen more times than I'd like to remember). And they wouldn't KEEP change cars at every subsequent stop either. By all means, if there is a legitimate problem in that car, change cars. You aren't going to get a summons if you have something to report to the police officer who might be waiting for you, especially if you speak before they do.

 

And of course if somebody passes me and says they're going into the next car, I wait for them. However, I occasionally get someone who says "I want to go to the front car, can you hold the doors open for me?" I say NO, GET ON just as they reach the first door of the next car. Why should I delay all of the other customers on the train so that YOU can get to the exit staircase 10 seconds faster?

 

I'm curious--do a lot of passengers talk to you in the station? I personally almost never come into contact with the C/R, usually because i am at the very front or very back fo the train.

 

On a related note, I happened to be on the platform at the C/R's spot on the (R) last week and some lady starting running off the train looking totally confused, and the C/R and I looked at eachother and started cracking up. 

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On a related note, I happened to be on the platform at the C/R's spot on the (R) last week and some lady starting running off the train looking totally confused, and the C/R and I looked at eachother and started cracking up.

 

She could've missed her stop or something and had to backtrack.

 

As for the thing with saving some time getting closer to the exit, well, if you're trying to make a connection, that little bit of time can add up. If you manage to do it quickly without holding up the train, I have no problem with it, because I know that whole countdown feeling where you're looking at the clock, hoping the connection hasn't left yet. It's not as much of a problem if you're dealing with something running every 5-10 minutes, but hey, if you can catch that earlier bus, you just saved 5-10 minutes.

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I once saw an Asian man in his seventies duck under the turnstile.  It took him like a full minute for him to upright himself. 

 

 

Never said these cases didn't warrant police action.  Those could have been in the form of a warning or a summons.  The question asked was why were arrests necessary?

 

Regarding Point 2, walking between subway cars is no more dangerous than crossing the street.  You just have to be careful around turns. Most of the people falling from between the cars were doing things they should not have been doing, not because they were simply changing cars.  As far as the terminals, you have enough warning that the train will leave because an announcement is made about ten seconds before that the train leaves, so it is perfectly safe to change cars there.  The reason it is not allowed, besides providing revenue, is that the MTA wants to reduce their liability from lawsuits by unscrupulous lawyers in case someone does fall and government no longer trusts people to use their own judgment.  Everything now needs to be legislated. So instead, they incur lawsuits by needlessly arresting people and settling out of court. Makes so much more sense. Doesn't it?

 

Regarding Point 3, you don't state that you may have to walk as much as 600 feet to find that human providing you no where the entrance is located where he is stationed.

 

Regarding Point 4, if the MTA is so opposed to crowding why does the Arts for Transit Program that allows musical performances on mezzanines and platforms?  You don't see a contradiction here?

 

Arts for Transit designates specific spots for performers, precisely because the music and stuff is something that characterizes New York, but they have to do it in specific locations so that exits, stairs, and the like aren't blocked. It's like parking a car - it is physically possible to park your car almost anywhere on a given street, but you're not allowed to do so for safety reasons.

 

Why are so many customers always walking between cars anyway? If you're at the terminal, WALK ON THE PLATFORM. It seems like the riders have nothing better to do than play musical chairs across the entire train. Find a seat, stay seated until your stop is announced, and enjoy the ride, and you won't have to worry about spending the night in jail.

 

 

The R160s at WTC, as one example, do not open all doors until the train is leaving, and only keep a half door open per car for what I think is ventilation reasons (in the winter you don't want to lose that heat, and in the summer you don't want to lose the AC). However, more often than not I've encountered trains where the front half door of one car will be open, and the next car will have its last half door open, so the space between open doors on these cars would effectively be two car lengths. Since New Yorkers habitually never walk to the farthest end of a car, no matter how empty it is, to get to an empty seat without walking three car lengths (two car lengths to an open door and one car length to the front of the car) people usually walk through cars.

 

Not to mention, if only one half of a door is open on every car, you can't switch cars without walking all the way back to that open door.

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Arts for Transit designates specific spots for performers, precisely because the music and stuff is something that characterizes New York, but they have to do it in specific locations so that exits, stairs, and the like aren't blocked. It's like parking a car - it is physically possible to park your car almost anywhere on a given street, but you're not allowed to do so for safety reasons.

 

I understand that Arts for Transit designates specific areas, but it is also impossible to anticipate the size of a crowd that might form if the performers are particularly good.  Look at the picture  in the article. It isn't hard to imagine another 10 or 15 passengers coming over to watch and a problem with crowding occurring at that designated location.

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I'm curious--do a lot of passengers talk to you in the station? I personally almost never come into contact with the C/R, usually because i am at the very front or very back fo the train.

 

On a related note, I happened to be on the platform at the C/R's spot on the (R) last week and some lady starting running off the train looking totally confused, and the C/R and I looked at eachother and started cracking up. 

 

Yes. Not a trip goes by where I don't talk to at least ONE customer. Most of them want directions, or ask if we're stopping at XXXX station, or ask if the (E) is running this weekend, etc. once in a while I get someone reporting a problem on board the train (they usually wait until their stop to tell me) or tell me that somebody fell onto the tracks. And then there are the kids (and occasional adult) who just want to say bye or thank you......there was this one foamer I used to run into when I worked the (1) who always had a list of crazy questions to ask, but I never had time for him.

 

Part of our job description is helping customers, so don't be afraid to talk to us. Just PLEASE wait until we finish making our announcement (9 out of 10 times, my announcement has your answer in it, especially if it's related to a GO).

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Yes. Not a trip goes by where I don't talk to at least ONE customer. Most of them want directions, or ask if we're stopping at XXXX station, or ask if the (E) is running this weekend, etc. once in a while I get someone reporting a problem on board the train (they usually wait until their stop to tell me) or tell me that somebody fell onto the tracks. And then there are the kids (and occasional adult) who just want to say bye or thank you......there was this one foamer I used to run into when I worked the (1) who always had a list of crazy questions to ask, but I never had time for him.

 

Part of our job description is helping customers, so don't be afraid to talk to us. Just PLEASE wait until we finish making our announcement (9 out of 10 times, my announcement has your answer in it, especially if it's related to a GO).

 

Cool! 

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