Official MTA BusTime Discussion

[qjtransitmaster]

 

You can't say Manhattan is the least bus dependent. It's the most densely populated place in the U.S. and is where the majority of New Yorkers work. Overall, Manhattan routes have an average weekday ridership of 486,096, which is greater than Queens.

Most non crosstown/LES riders are old people. End of story who is more dependent one with a subway or one without. Those numbers are not reflecting ablebodied people mostly.

[Metro CSW]

Nice try anyways, QJT.

[Gorgor]

Most non crosstown/LES riders are old people. End of story who is more dependent one with a subway or one without. Those numbers are not reflecting ablebodied people mostly.

 

So you're saying that the disabled and elderly aren't people, and don't matter?

[checkmatechamp13]

You can't say Manhattan is the least bus dependent. It's the most densely populated place in the U.S. and is where the majority of New Yorkers work. Overall, Manhattan routes have an average weekday ridership of 486,096, which is greater than Queens.

 

Key word: Dependant. If the M5 stopped running in Greenwich Village, people would at least have the subway as an alternative. If the Q4 stopped running, the people in those neighborhoods would have no transportation alternative.

[Quill Depot]

Most non crosstown/LES riders are old people. End of story who is more dependent one with a subway or one without. Those numbers are not reflecting ablebodied people mostly.

 

What are you, an idiot. Where do you get your facts from?

[bobtehpanda]

You can't say Manhattan is the least bus dependent. It's the most densely populated place in the U.S. and is where the majority of New Yorkers work. Overall, Manhattan routes have an average weekday ridership of 486,096, which is greater than Queens.

 

I'm pretty sure most of us use the term "dependent" referring to the borough's residents - if we were using workers + residents for comparisons, Manhattan would always win for obvious reasons.

 

Not to mention, the Manhattan figure is inflated by tourists - very few people are going to change from the subway to the bus in Manhattan if they're coming from another borough, or from the train to the bus if they're from out of town. The subway has a huge speed advantage.

 

Manhattan has to have the least reliable bus service out of any borough.  Traffic is unpredictable, and affects pretty much every route, and on some days one part of a route may take 10 minutes but another day it may take over 30 minutes.  Buses in the outerboroughs are subject to much less delays due to unpredictable amounts of traffic.

 

Bustime in Manhattan won't fix any of those problems, but will let riders know whether they should wait for the bus or take an alternate way (walk, cab, or walk to a parallel bus route).

 

This actually proves my point. In Queens, there IS no alternate way. Most bus riders are going several miles, which is barely walkable even in good weather. Biking on Queens streets is risky (Queens Blvd is an example) and there's nowhere to lock bikes once you get to your destination. There aren't any cabs in Queens, so the only options are buses, vans, and in certain areas the "dollar" vans. (These vans are also a form of "bus" transit, because they're running fixed-route services using motorized vehicles that drop off and pick up passengers regularly.)

 

In Manhattan, going crosstown you can walk, bike, or take a cab. Going north-south, you can do all of those things and use the subway, as well. Manhattan may have demand for bus service, but it's certainly not dependent on it.

[Turbo19]

Key word: Dependant. If the M5 stopped running in Greenwich Village, people would at least have the subway as an alternative. If the Q4 stopped running, the people in those neighborhoods would have no transportation alternative.

Here's my question. Why should one be sacraficed for another? In the case of the M5, when cuts were proposed around 2010, the neighborhoods served by the M5 (and other routes facing cuts) raised hell, and rightfully so.

 

What I always thought was flawed was the view that the purpose of bus routes is only to ferry people to and from subway lines. This wasn't the case when the first subway opened in 1904 and it certainly isn't the case now.

 

In the case of the M5, it not only provides vital connections to local residents but is also useful to tourists, more than the subway could ever be.

 

Sorry for diverging off topic, just adding a short piece.

[qjtransitmaster]

Here's my question. Why should one be sacraficed for another? In the case of the M5, when cuts were proposed around 2010, the neighborhoods served by the M5 (and other routes facing cuts) raised hell, and rightfully so.

 

What I always thought was flawed was the view that the purpose of bus routes is only to ferry people to and from subway lines. This wasn't the case when the first subway opened in 1904 and it certainly isn't the case now.

 

In the case of the M5, it not only provides vital connections to local residents but is also useful to tourists, more than the subway could ever be.

 

Sorry for diverging off topic, just adding a short piece.

The M5 does serve riverside drive though.

 

Nice try anyways, QJT.

apparently 4 idiots don't know the difference between areas with bus and subway options vs those with only bus options. Yet others like bobtehpanda and checkmate made similar points yet did not get down voted just shows how pitiful some people are they just can't leave me alone I prefer to not take them seriously I just humor them.

[checkmatechamp13]

This actually proves my point. In Queens, there IS no alternate way. Most bus riders are going several miles, which is barely walkable even in good weather. Biking on Queens streets is risky (Queens Blvd is an example) and there's nowhere to lock bikes once you get to your destination. There aren't any cabs in Queens, so the only options are buses, vans, and in certain areas the "dollar" vans. (These vans are also a form of "bus" transit, because they're running fixed-route services using motorized vehicles that drop off and pick up passengers regularly.)

 

In Manhattan, going crosstown you can walk, bike, or take a cab. Going north-south, you can do all of those things and use the subway, as well. Manhattan may have demand for bus service, but it's certainly not dependent on it.

 

Exactly. It'll help in Manhattan, but it'll help a lot more in Queens, because if you're really in a hurry, you can just automatically go to one of the other modes (whether it's the subway, or a more frequent bus line, or just walking/running wherever you're going). In Queens, if you're in a hurry, the two choices you have may not be as frequent. You could have the choice between a route with a 20 minute wait, and one with a 12 minute wait, and so you can't automatically walk to the more frequent service, because that service isn't even that frequent (especially if it's unreliable)

 

Here's my question. Why should one be sacraficed for another? In the case of the M5, when cuts were proposed around 2010, the neighborhoods served by the M5 (and other routes facing cuts) raised hell, and rightfully so.

 

What I always thought was flawed was the view that the purpose of bus routes is only to ferry people to and from subway lines. This wasn't the case when the first subway opened in 1904 and it certainly isn't the case now.

 

In the case of the M5, it not only provides vital connections to local residents but is also useful to tourists, more than the subway could ever be.

 

Sorry for diverging off topic, just adding a short piece.

 

We're not saying to sacrifice one for the other. We're just saying that Queens is more bus-dependant and should get the tracking system before Manhattan, because in Manhattan, they have options. (And we're definitely not suggesting to sacrifice the actual lines!)

 

As for ferrying people to subway lines, well, there are a decent amount of grid routes that parallel the subway.

[qjtransitmaster]

Exactly. It'll help in Manhattan, but it'll help a lot more in Queens, because if you're really in a hurry, you can just automatically go to one of the other modes (whether it's the subway, or a more frequent bus line, or just walking/running wherever you're going). In Queens, if you're in a hurry, the two choices you have may not be as frequent. You could have the choice between a route with a 20 minute wait, and one with a 12 minute wait, and so you can't automatically walk to the more frequent service, because that service isn't even that frequent (especially if it's unreliable)

 

 

 

We're not saying to sacrifice one for the other. We're just saying that Queens is more bus-dependant and should get the tracking system before Manhattan, because in Manhattan, they have options. (And we're definitely not suggesting to sacrifice the actual lines!)

 

As for ferrying people to subway lines, well, there are a decent amount of grid routes that parallel the subway.

To be honest I never suggested any true cuts anyway. I admit you are one of the smartest teens I've come across.

[Gorgor]

I'm pretty sure most of us use the term "dependent" referring to the borough's residents - if we were using workers + residents for comparisons, Manhattan would always win for obvious reasons.

 

Not to mention, the Manhattan figure is inflated by tourists - very few people are going to change from the subway to the bus in Manhattan if they're coming from another borough, or from the train to the bus if they're from out of town. The subway has a huge speed advantage.

 

 

This actually proves my point. In Queens, there IS no alternate way. Most bus riders are going several miles, which is barely walkable even in good weather. Biking on Queens streets is risky (Queens Blvd is an example) and there's nowhere to lock bikes once you get to your destination. There aren't any cabs in Queens, so the only options are buses, vans, and in certain areas the "dollar" vans. (These vans are also a form of "bus" transit, because they're running fixed-route services using motorized vehicles that drop off and pick up passengers regularly.)

 

In Manhattan, going crosstown you can walk, bike, or take a cab. Going north-south, you can do all of those things and use the subway, as well. Manhattan may have demand for bus service, but it's certainly not dependent on it.

 

Yes, Queens is more dependent solely on buses than Manhattan.  But since people have no alternatives to that one bus as you said, BusTime won't speed up anyone's commute in Queens; it will just let them know how much they're going to be delayed.  On the other hand, it will speed up commutes in Manhattan because if the bus isn't anywhere near people can use the alternate ways to travel to their destination faster than waiting for a bus that's far away.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes, Queens is more dependent solely on buses than Manhattan.  But since people have no alternatives to that one bus as you said, BusTime won't speed up anyone's commute in Queens; it will just let them know how much they're going to be delayed.  On the other hand, it will speed up commutes in Manhattan because if the bus isn't anywhere near people can use the alternate ways to travel to their destination faster than waiting for a bus that's far away.

 

Well, for starters, even if you have absolutely no alternatives, it's still helpful to know how far away the next bus is, because you know how much time you have to do other things (buy a snack, finish typing something on the computer, etc). Or if worse comes to worst, you know to call a car service and/or have somebody pick you up, if that alternative is somehow available to you.

 

But in any case, a lot of people in Manhattan do have some sort of frequent service nearby. So that's your go-to service if you need to go somewhere quick and don't want to wait long. There's the subway (which has countdown clocks in many stations), and then you have frequent bus lines. So even if the line in your immediate area only runs every 20 minutes, chances are there's a line nearby that runs every say, 8 minutes or less (whether it's a single routes, or a corridor with multple routes), where you can just walk right up to it and expect that a bus (or train) will be along shortly. In Queens, you may be choosing between a line every 15 minutes, and one every 20 minutes, so it's important to know where the buses are along the two routes, so you know which one offers the shorter wait.

 

Why do you think SI was chosen first? We have even fewer alternatives than Queens. Because it's the same deal: If you're dealing with lines running every 15-20 minutes, it helps to know whether you should choose one or the other.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yes, Queens is more dependent solely on buses than Manhattan.  But since people have no alternatives to that one bus as you said, BusTime won't speed up anyone's commute in Queens; it will just let them know how much they're going to be delayed.  On the other hand, it will speed up commutes in Manhattan because if the bus isn't anywhere near people can use the alternate ways to travel to their destination faster than waiting for a bus that's far away.

true check your PM. I sent you something.

[Metro CSW]

Northeast Queens elected officials are calling on the Metropolitan
Transit Authority to quickly implement the Q46 line into its expanding
Bus Time tracking program.

Elected officials who signed on to a letter asking MTA Acting
President Thomas Prendergrast to prioritize the bus line included U.S.
Rep. Grace Meng, D-Flushing, state Sen. Tony Avella, D-Bayside, state
Assemblywoman Nily Rozic, D-Fresh Meadows, Assemblyman David Weprin,
D-Little Neck, Councilman Mark Weprin, D-Oakland Gardens, Councilman
James Gennaro, D-Fresh Meadows, and state Sen. Joseph Addabbo, D-Howard
Beach.

“The Q46 should be the highest priority in the MTA’s planned
expansion of the Bus Time program,” Rozic said. “It would bring much
relief to the transit desert of eastern Queens and would connect
communities and commuters in real time. The Q46 is a lifeline for many
other residents and the program would make their lives easier and
efficient.”

In their letter, the elected officials asked Prendergrast to start
the MTA’s Queens program along Union Turnpike, which they said is a
major transportation artery in Queens that connects several bus lines
and serves transportation hubs.

The MTA’s Bus Time program allows transit riders to use various
technological devices, such as smart phones and computers, to track the
arrival of buses at specific stops along the route. Currently, the
program is used in the Bronx and Staten Island, but the MTA has
announced plans to expand the program in Manhattan this year and then
Brooklyn and Queens by April 2014.

“Residents in this area of eastern Queens, without ready access to
the subway, rely on bus service to take them to work or important
appointments,” Avella said. “Therefore, with the MTA’s stated goal of
expanding the Bus Time program in Queens, it would make sense that
eastern Queens would be given priority consideration. The Q46 is an
integral transportation link between eastern Queens and the rest of the
city.”

David Weprin said the bus transports residents in his district to the
E and F subway lines in Kew Gardens that run express to the city.

And Gennaro said the Q46 enables passengers to get to Queens Hospital
and St. John’s University as well as a number of retail establishments
and office spaces.

“Union Turnpike in eastern Queens is largely served by just one local
bus line, the Q46, which has become a lifeline for thousands of city
residents with few other transit options,” he said. “An expansion of Bus
Time to the Q46 would demonstrate the MTA’s commitment to reliable
transportation for all residents of this region, not just those
well-served by subways.”

http://bayside.patch.com/articles/northeast-queens-elected-officials-call-on-mta-to-add-q46-to-bus-time-program

 

^Hmmmm....

 

Anyways, we already have the B61, B63, Staten Island, The Bronx, Q50, M100 and M34/A SBS+ routes on GPS. Anything else, can be here if it doesn't hurt much.

 

Brett, Did you merge the threads. Thanks!

[Cait Sith]

I like the idea with the Q46 Bustime coming to Queens(if it does), the only problem is you can't really check for neighboring connections like the Q17, 25, 34, 65 and the others along the route the Q46 connects to.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Heck I've even used the Q46 for brief periods to get to over to the old QM1 and that bus always seems to be crowded.  I find it funny that Brooklyn politicians aren't more vocal about bus service, which as far as I'm concerned has deteriorated in numerous parts of Brooklyn.  

[ttcsubwayfan]

The more the merrier, esp. those bloody RTS's and old Orions.... 

As if the hybrids are sooo much better.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As if the hybrids are sooo much better.

They're not necessarily better, but they are newer and in some cases cleaner with bright signs that are easy on the eyes... 

[Q43LTD]

Why am I not surprised that Queens is last

[Cait Sith]

They're not necessarily better, but they are newer and in some cases cleaner with bright signs that are easy on the eyes... 

 

And that's very important considering the Q46 heading out of Kew Gardens have three branches. Springfield Blvd short turn, 260th Street/Glen Oaks and North Shore LIJ.

[ttcsubwayfan]

 

with bright signs that are easy on the eyes...

 

 

For the record I do agree with you that orange signs are a ton easier to read than the greener ones, especially in foul weather. Frankly, I hope more buses from the above series are upgraded to this sign.

 

And "cleaner" is really subjective on the depot itself, isn't it? In my travels, I've ridden dirty 2012 buses and clean 1996 ones.

 

Can anyone comment on whether or not the hybrids had huge battery related issues when they arrived? I don't know about New York's, but in Toronto, they ordered 700 of them, and the problem got so bad that 52 GM Fishbowls were given a life extension overhaul and all 700 of the hybrids repowered to Lithium Ion batteries

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

And that's very important considering the Q46 heading out of Kew Gardens have three branches. Springfield Blvd short turn, 260th Street/Glen Oaks and North Shore LIJ.

Not only that but the newer buses accelerate much better... If they could only fix the layout on those buses....

[User]

So the entire city is expected to have BusTime completed in their boroughs by April 2014, one year from now. All bus routes in Manhattan will definitely get BusTime this year. Brooklyn and Queens will get them by April 2014, but it is not sure if that will be this year or next year.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

So the entire city is expected to have BusTime completed in their boroughs by April 2014, one year from now. All bus routes in Manhattan will definitely get BusTime this year. Brooklyn and Queens will get them by April 2014, but it is not sure if that will be this year or next year.

Like those dates are ever right...

 

BusTime was supposed to be live across the 5 boroughs by now (spring 2013 IIRC). Even NJT's BusTime is supposed to be up statewide within weeks, and we still have buses without the Clever Device equipment and NJT's saying absolutely nothing. I got a feeling we won't be seeing BusTime citywide for quite a while... but maybe the MTA will surprise us!

[qjtransitmaster]

Like those dates are ever right...

 

BusTime was supposed to be live across the 5 boroughs by now (spring 2013 IIRC). Even NJT's BusTime is supposed to be up statewide within weeks, and we still have buses without the Clever Device equipment and NJT's saying absolutely nothing. I got a feeling we won't be seeing BusTime citywide for quite a while... but maybe the MTA will surprise us!

WOW