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Acela Express

Flatbush Junction Project

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After wondering what all the construction is going on at Flatbush Junction, I looked up the presentation listed for the project (.pdf), which can be viewed here: http://www.cb14brooklyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Flatbush-Nostrand-Junction-Project.pdf

 

If you look at the proposed schematic, it's showing the Q35 stop at the B41 northbound section.

I'm wondering if they're looking to reposition the Q35 stand again, or even put it back where the Bergen Beach buses stop it since they are are extending the sidewalk there. It doesn't show any bus stand by Target on Avenue H...

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Well, I know I said I'd love it if the q35 stopped there again, but I guess with this extended sidewalk, there should be more standing and loading space now. That turn won't be missed, its always hogged up by the cabs waiting to pick up fares. I guess the q35 reliability will be going down now. Then again, at least it will be a relief not having to wait forever for the b41 to arrive with all the traffic north of Nostrand.

Edited by Grand Concourse

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On that diagram, Note the "bus pad" on nostrand b/w flatbush & glenwood.... B44's don't stop on that side of nostrand/flatbush, so that's pretty much telling me that the Q35 turnaround scenario would be reverted to that of back during its GBL days (right on nostrand to stand..... then for the return trip, a left on glenwood & another left back on flatbush)....

 

I get the sense that eventually, the DOT is gonna have Av H b/w flatbush & nostrand flow 1-way eastbound.....

 

To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't turned Hillel place into one of these ped malls yet....

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On that diagram, Note the "bus pad" on nostrand b/w flatbush & glenwood.... B44's don't stop on that side of nostrand/flatbush, so that's pretty much telling me that the Q35 turnaround scenario would be reverted to that of back during its GBL days (right on nostrand to stand..... then for the return trip, a left on glenwood & another left back on flatbush)....

 

I get the sense that eventually, the DOT is gonna have Av H b/w flatbush & nostrand flow 1-way eastbound.....

 

To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't turned Hillel place into one of these ped malls yet....

ugh. do they not realize that the less traffic goes thru the Junction, the better? if a Q35 wants to make that left and Glenwood is already backed up, the Q35 will end up sitting in the intersection backing up southbound Nostrand Ave traffic. "H" flowing one-way eastbound would suck b/c it would mean vehicles heading south on Nostrand or FB and wanting to get to Nostrand could not circumvent the Junction by turning left on Farragut, Foster, or Newkirk, then right on New York Ave, then right on "H", then left on Nostrand.

 

I do not understand why so many people currently choose to sit in traffic at Junction instead of circumventing it.

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I'm seeing "B31" at the northbound "bus pad", so I take it that must mean "B41". (They also labeled image #8 as "Hillel Pl." but that's really Glenwood Rd).

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Lol. At least the 1st change left the sb stop at the same place. I just hope they don't make av H bw Nostrand and FB one way only. I do agree that the q35 should avoid the Nostrand and FB intersection and I think having the q35 make the same turn that the short turn b103 has makes the most sense if they must change the q35 route again. They can park the buses on av h. I dunno how they can have their breaks if they go back to the old q35 route.

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I dunno how they can have their breaks if they go back to the old q35 route.

lol.... you remember where the GBL Q35's used to layover, don't you :lol:

 

 

Lol. At least the 1st change left the sb stop at the same place. I just hope they don't make av H bw Nostrand and FB one way only. I do agree that the q35 should avoid the Nostrand and FB intersection and I think having the q35 make the same turn that the short turn b103 has makes the most sense if they must change the q35 route again. They can park the buses on av h. I dunno how they can have their breaks if they go back to the old q35 route.

I hear you... I still/also think that scenario was the best of the 3 (what Q35's used to do back in the day, what they used to do just before this recent change [which is what you're referencing], and this recent change itself - utilizing Av I is the pits)....

 

As far as layover space.... well, you do remember where the GBL Q35's used to layover, don't you :lol:

(if it wasn't on the NE corner of flatbush/nostrand [along nostrand], b/o's would do so along glenwood b/w f'bush & nostrand.... pick your poison sort of ordeal b/c neither one was of any good)

Edited by B35 via Church
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lol.... you remember where the GBL Q35's used to layover, don't you :lol:

 

 

 

I hear you... I still/also think that scenario was the best of the 3 (what Q35's used to do back in the day, what they used to do just before this recent change [which is what you're referencing], and this recent change itself - utilizing Av I is the pits)....

 

As far as layover space.... well, you do remember where the GBL Q35's used to layover, don't you :lol:

(if it wasn't on the NE corner of flatbush/nostrand [along nostrand], b/o's would do so along glenwood b/w f'bush & nostrand.... pick your poison sort of ordeal b/c neither one was of any good)

 

why is using "I" bad for the Q35?

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Indeed. I understand why they wanted to avoid av h, because that intersection is pretty bad. But av I takes longer to go thru and you face the issue with the cars not giving the bus enough room to turn onto nostrand and the double parked cars on Nostrand. Other than to avoid going up FB past av h, I don't see the savings. Having the nb q35 stop where the short turn b103s are seems to be the best option and allow drivers a decent parking spot and enough choices on where to go to take a break.

Edited by Grand Concourse
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Indeed. I understand why they maintenance wanted to avoid av h because that intersection is pretty bad, but av I takes longer to go thru and you face the issue with the cars not giving the bus enough room to turn onto nostrand and the double parked cars on Nostrand. Other than to avoid going up FB past av h, I don't see the savings. Having the nb q35 stop where the short turn b103s are seems to be the best option and allow drivers a decent parking spot and enough choices on where to go to take a break.

Now that you mention it, I did find that buses had an easier time making the right off 'H onto nostrand (the prior scenario), compared to making the right off 'I onto nostrand (the current scenario).... Difference between the two is, with the old Av H turnaround, those are rockaway bound/southbound pax & with Av I, those are pax coming from the south waiting to get off at the junction.....

 

With the prior scenario, they wanted to abolish the turn onto flatbush from nostrand, since along that part of flatbush is where the SB B41/EB B103 & BM2 stop at....

 

With what that diagram is showing, I do not like the idea of having that stop in front the rite aid as a final dropoff stop for the Q35 being shared with that for the downtown bound B41/LTD.....

Edited by B35 via Church
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i am sorry... it is not allowing me to view th e actual report....somesot

of problem with polaris

 

typing prob today????

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On that diagram, Note the "bus pad" on nostrand b/w flatbush & glenwood.... B44's don't stop on that side of nostrand/flatbush, so that's pretty much telling me that the Q35 turnaround scenario would be reverted to that of back during its GBL days (right on nostrand to stand..... then for the return trip, a left on glenwood & another left back on flatbush).....

 

The B44 SBS will eventually stop there.

 

I deleted it from the quote, but it would be a better idea to leave Avenue H alone.

 

1. The B103 short turn turnaround would be messed up.

2. It would make getting to Brooklyn College from the east by car a nightmare.

Edited by aemoreira81

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The B44 SBS will eventually stop there.

Make a lot more sense to me. Since the B44 SBS will reroute along Rodgers anyways....

 

On a side note, I only wish that Brooklyn College had a mezzanine level, just a thought.

Edited by Metro CSW

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The B44 SBS will eventually stop there.

 

I deleted it from the quote, but it would be a better idea to leave Avenue H alone.

 

1. The B103 short turn turnaround would be messed up.

2. It would make getting to Brooklyn College from the east by car a nightmare.

source? the diagrams DOT presented years ago had the SBS stop on the southeast corner, with the local, like all the B44s do now. what sense would it even make to stop on the north side of Flatbush Ave if it has to turn left on Flatbush Ave?

Edited by BrooklynIRT
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I do hope they leave the B103 short turn as it is. I can't imagine it trying to make that same 'original Q35' turn from Glenwood. Av H doesn't get 'too much' traffic, so I don't see the point of making it one way only. Plus the sidewalk south of that Models building is fairly wide, so it's not like they need to claim more road for the sidewalk. If anything, maybe they should widen Av H (trim a little bit of that sidewalk) just so they can park a few buses there for layovers.

Also, should they move the n/b B44SBS stop closer to Av H? SBS stops are usually separate from the regular stops and that section isn't as packed because it's not next to the subway entrance. it would be an added benefit to weed out the people pouring out from the subway from just hopping on the bus without using the machines.

Edited by Grand Concourse

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actually I would want the SBS stop to be right next to the subway entrance to make it easy for people who want to go downstairs to get there. more people will be getting off the SBS than the local to transfer to the subway. get off the bus and the subway entrance is just a few steps away. the SBS stop would still be separate from the local stop; it is merely a question of which should be further north on the block and I would say the SBS stop should for the reason I stated.

 

for a second I actually thought it might be a good idea to put the SBS stop further south than the local stop since you could have people get out thru the back door and cross the street to go to the entrance in front of the Bulletproof comic store (which precludes you from running from track 3 to track 2 if you want the train on track 2), but the problems there are that people would either have to cross the street, which means waiting for the crosswalk signal to change, or walk a long distance to the entrance by the elevator, then go downstairs and run to track 2 if need be; and that the bus would be way behind in the line of traffic when it needs to be as close to the front as possible to make the left turn onto Flatbush as quickly as possible when it is time to proceed northbound.

 

if you enter from the northbound B44 stop at the corner it is not that bad if you need track 2 anyway since it is just 100' or so to the south end of the station from those turnstiles. my opinion.

 

on a side note I seriously hope they illegalize that left turn (northbound and southbound) for non-buses like they said they would.

Edited by BrooklynIRT

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..I deleted it from the quote, but it would be a better idea to leave Avenue H alone.....

....Except what I said about av H wasn't an "idea"; it wasn't something was advocating for.

 

source?

 

the diagrams DOT presented years ago had the SBS stop on the southeast corner, with the local, like all the B44s do now. what sense would it even make to stop on the north side of Flatbush Ave if it has to turn left on Flatbush Ave?

Beat me to it....

 

The SBS buses aren't gonna pan north on nostrand past flatbush to stop on the NE corner..... and it would defeat the purpose for northbound SBS 44's to stop on the NE corner (of flatbush/nostrand) if they have to get to Rogers av..... Buses from the NE corner would have to either:

 

- make a left on glenwood from nostrand & then a right from glenwood back to flatbush, to then make its way to run up rogers...

- make a left on farragut from nostrand & then a right up rogers...

 

^^ There's ZERO point to either of that when northbound buses can simply turn left on flatbush from nostrand after having served the SBS station...

 

The turn (well it's not even really a turn) from flatbush up rogers, is much simpler than having buses turn (albeit like any other 90 degree right hand turn) from farragut to rogers.... The whole point is to eliminate as much turns as you can, not add to them.....

------

 

What I will say is though, the SBS B44 station would have to be behind the current B44 stop on the SE corner, b/c it would be unsafe for the SBS 44's to make a left turn on flatbush from the immediate SE corner..... The local buses can remain stopping at the immediate SE corner, since they'd be panning straight up nostrand, past flatbush.....

 

 

..Also, should they move the n/b B44SBS stop closer to Av H? SBS stops are usually separate from the regular stops and that section isn't as packed because it's not next to the subway entrance. it would be an added benefit to weed out the people pouring out from the subway from just hopping on the bus without using the machines.

See my last paragraph directly above.

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I would like to think they could have the SBS stop at the corner still. for reasons I wrote in post #19. either add a 3- to 5-second left turn signal for northbound SBS buses and shorten the walk cycle for the crosswalk that goes from the HSBC to Hillel Place by that same amount of time or just have bus ops go straight into the intersection after the Nostrand Ave signal turns green (without trying to get into the left lane/non-curb lane of Nostrand) and then make the left turn after the Nostrand Ave signal turns red again or all the Nostrand Ave traffic has cleared the intersection, whichever of the two happens first.

 

the issue there is that Flatbush Ave drivers may get pissed about having to wait an extra second or two to move after their signal turns green since the bus is in the intersection, but it should not be a big deal considering the fact that something similar happens all the time but with several private vehicles rather than one bus (or two if they are off-schedule) making that left turn at once..and hopefully the buses will completely replace those private vehicles as the left-turners (this will happen if DOT restricts that left turn to buses).

 

it seems awkward since it is now an Artic making a left from the curb/crosswalk lane, but it should be no less safe or congestion-inducing than the current situation with several cars making the left from the left lane, especially if they restrict that left turn to buses. fewer vehicles making the turn, and Flatbush Ave drivers would be less likely to challenge since the bus would be stopped in the intersection and blocking the left lane of northbound Flatbush Ave as well as most of the right lane before turning off, if bus ops do what I have been led by other bus ops to believe is the right thing (they have said that it is important to block off as much of the road as possible in such situations so nobody can attempt to squeeze by them in a dangerous way, and I have seen this practiced often).

Edited by BrooklynIRT

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the other thing about having the bus stop further from the corner and get in the left lane of Nostrand before entering the intersection is that if the bus is sitting in the middle of the ISCT waiting, vehicles that want to go straight up Nostrand will have to circumvent the bus and may conflict with a local bus pulling out from the stop if the local bus stop is north of the SBS stop. may also conflict with short-turning B103s since the buses have to turn left slightly before turning right.

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I'd rather have buses pulling out of a bus stop (in this case) mid-block into the left most lane (nostrand av) to go on to make that left on flatbush, over having buses make a left hand turn directly from the SE corner (which is the right hand lane)..... The NB B44 SBS' are gonna have to make that left hand turn onto flatbush either way, so why have buses making a left hand turn from the immediate corner when you don't have to.....

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Ideally, the +SBS+ would be able to stop on the NW corner of Flatbush & Nostrand, after having made the turn off Nostrand. But of course, that station doesn't have a mezzanine (sp?), so unless they want to walk all the way to the southern end of the platform, they're limited to the train leaving from the western track (it's the (2) that leaves from that track, right?)

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the other way around. the west track is track 2 which is for the (5) and the east track is track 3 which is for the (2).

Edited by BrooklynIRT
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