Flatbush Junction Project

[BrooklynIRT]

B35, what about my reasons from posts #19 and 22?

 

 

actually I would want the SBS stop to be right next to the subway entrance to make it easy for people who want to go downstairs to get there. more people will be getting off the SBS than the local to transfer to the subway. get off the bus and the subway entrance is just a few steps away. the SBS stop would still be separate from the local stop; it is merely a question of which should be further north on the block and I would say the SBS stop should for the reason I stated.

 

for a second I actually thought it might be a good idea to put the SBS stop further south than the local stop since you could have people get out thru the back door and cross the street to go to the entrance in front of the Bulletproof comic store (which precludes you from running from track 3 to track 2 if you want the train on track 2), but the problems there are that people would either have to cross the street, which means waiting for the crosswalk signal to change, or walk a long distance to the entrance by the elevator, then go downstairs and run to track 2 if need be; and that the bus would be way behind in the line of traffic when it needs to be as close to the front as possible to make the left turn onto Flatbush as quickly as possible when it is time to proceed northbound.

 

if you enter from the northbound B44 stop at the corner it is not that bad if you need track 2 anyway since it is just 100' or so to the south end of the station from those turnstiles. my opinion.

 

on a side note I seriously hope they illegalize that left turn (northbound and southbound) for non-buses like they said they would.

 

the other thing about having the bus stop further from the corner and get in the left lane of Nostrand before entering the intersection is that if the bus is sitting in the middle of the ISCT waiting, vehicles that want to go straight up Nostrand will have to circumvent the bus and may conflict with a local bus pulling out from the stop if the local bus stop is north of the SBS stop. may also conflict with short-turning B103s since the buses have to turn left slightly before turning right.

[BrooklynIRT]

actually in post #22 I meant to say that the short turning B103 buses have to turn left slightly before turning right if they came up Nostrand in the curb lane. also even if the stop is at the corner there may be enough room for the Artic to get to the left lane of Nostrand and wait to make the left turn without blocking the right lane of Nostrand. I have no way of knowing until I see an Artic do it though. I wonder if Acela or another bus op knows.

 

according to google maps there is a distance of about 140' from the stop line on the northbound side of Nostrand to the centroid of the intersection. I think this is enough room for the bus to pull away from the curb, enter the left lane, and then straighten out, but again I would like somebody to confirm this or state whether this is a plausible statement. the LFSA is 62' long, so if the bus enters the left lane but the front of the bus does not pass the centroid of the intersection, there is still about 80' of clearance from the back of the bus to the stop line. so there should be enough room for the bus to position itself in the left lane the same way it would if the stop were not right at the corner.

[BrooklynIRT]

also in post #19 I meant to say that it is not that bad if one has to run to track 2 if one gets off the bus and the entrance is just a few steps from the bus, but it is an issue if one has to run from the middle of the block to the entrance prior to running over to track 2 downstairs. and it is better if the SBS stop (rather than the local stop) is right in front of the entrance in my opinion.

[B35 via Church]

B35, what about my reasons from posts #19 and 22?

I read your post(s) & saw your reasons upon making that last post of mine (didn't feel like quoting those long posts)...

Although it's somewhat well thought out, It didn't change my stance..... The idea of having a left turn signal (regardless how quick the signal is) from the right-most lane, yeah, I don't know about all that......

 

As checkmate somewhat alluded to, your solution would make more sense to me if NB buses were stopping somewhere along flatbush b/w nostrand & rogers (where they would have to access the curbside along the NB direction of flatbush.... which would include the NW corner of flatbush/nostrand).... Otherwise, you wouldn't need buses making that left onto flatbush from the immediate SE corner (of flatbush/nostrand)....

 

Ideally, the +SBS+ would be able to stop on the NW corner of Flatbush & Nostrand, after having made the turn off Nostrand. But of course, that station doesn't have a mezzanine (sp?), so unless they want to walk all the way to the southern end of the platform, they're limited to the train leaving from the western track (it's the that leaves from that track, right?)

Usually it's the 5, but I wouldn't put too much stock in that b/c either train can leave from either side at any time...... People walking/hustling aroun the "loop" (the southern end of the platform) is done more commonly than you might think..... There is a habit by waiting passengers where they stand right at that stubbed end of the station & make their move from there....

 

....and yes, your spelling was correct.

[BrooklynIRT]

I read your post(s) & saw your reasons upon making that last post of mine (didn't feel like quoting those long posts)...

Although it's somewhat well thought out, It didn't change my stance..... The idea of having a left turn signal (regardless how quick the signal is) from the right-most lane, yeah, I don't know about all that......

 

As checkmate somewhat alluded to, your solution would make more sense to me if NB buses were stopping somewhere along flatbush b/w nostrand & rogers (where they would have to access the curbside along the NB direction of flatbush.... which would include the NW corner of flatbush/nostrand).... Otherwise, you wouldn't need buses making that left onto flatbush from the immediate SE corner (of flatbush/nostrand)....

 

Usually it's the 5, but I wouldn't put too much stock in that b/c either train can leave from either side at any time...... People walking/hustling aroun the "loop" (the southern end of the platform) is done more commonly than you might think..... There is a habit by waiting passengers where they stand right at that stubbed end of the station & make their move from there....

 

....and yes, your spelling was correct.

when was the last time a train left from the "wrong" track during the week?

 

also as I said in post #27 they may be able to get from the corner to the left lane just as easily as they can get from the middle of the block to the left lane.

[B35 via Church]

when was the last time a train left from the "wrong" track during the week?

 

also as I said in post #27 they may be able to get from the corner to the left lane just as easily as they can get from the middle of the block to the left lane.

I wouldn't know the last time it happened because I haven't used that station recently....

 

But I would be lying to everyone on here if I sat up here & said I've never seen a 5 on the eastbound side of the station & I've never seen a 2 on the westbound side of the station (which is pretty much what you're implicating in asking that question).... I mean, that has been done plenty of times.....

 

 

As far as your post #27 or w/e, I'm not arguing that your solution is impossible... The turn can be made from there...

I mean you're telling me about "just as easily"..... I'm asking why have vehicles make a left from the right hand side of the street when you don't have to........

[BrooklynIRT]

because I think the SBS should stop right in front of the subway entrance and because the bus would not have to wait for as many vehicles to move before making the left turn. if the bus stop is in front of the pizza place (where the Sleepy's used to be) or even worse, the Bank of America, then what happens is that the bus op closes the doors, then starts inching to the left to enter the left lane. then the signal turns green and like 5 cars have to move before the bus can move, and I would hate for the bus to miss the signal and have to wait for it to change again just so it can enter the intersection.

 

and it makes it inconvenient for people who want to go downstairs. if the bus stop is in front of the subway entrance, then it is easier for people to go downstairs and when it is time for the bus to proceed northbound there is no need to worry about how quickly the cars in front of it get out of the way because the signal is right there in front of the bus. in that case the bus can enter the ISCT either before, while, or after getting the front of the bus into the left lane, and once you are in the ISCT there is no need to worry about Nostrand getting reds again. if the stop is further back you can go straight ahead along the curb after closing doors only if no vehicle is sitting along the curb in front of you, and then you have the same situation as you would if the SBS stop were at the corner.

 

but if somebody is sitting in front of you along the curb, you are forced to enter the left lane ASAP. then you have to contend with other vehicles and you run the risk of missing the signal and having to wait another 1.5 minute. I would never want to see that.

 

yes, it is inconvenient for local bus passengers to have to walk up from the middle of the block to the subway entrance if the local stop is mid-block instead of the SBS stop. but I think the SBS should be in front of the entrance instead of the local b/c more people will be transferring from the SBS to the train than from the local to the train, for one thing.

[B35 via Church]

Well that's your reasoning.....

 

But the way I see it, as long as people are being taken to the vicinity of any of the subway station entrances, it's not that imperative/big a deal to have the SBS' stop on the corner (as opposed to mid-block) for that reason.... On the SE corner of flatbush/nostrand itself, there are two entrances (one on the flatbush side, and one on the nostrand side), and of course, the elevator's on that side of the street as well.....

 

As for the traffic part of your reasoning, it's no different from any bus stop pulling out of a mid-block bus stop on a 2-way street that allows for 1 lane of flowing traffic.... I'd rather have vehicles inch-inch-inching their way onto the left hand lane to make that left from the left hand lane, over running down the right hand lane & making a left hand turn from that corner.... There's no guarantees that you're gonna make the signal in either case anyway.....

[BrooklynIRT]

they can inch over after having stopped at the corner as well.

 

no guarantee of making the signal in the case of stopping at the corner? how, if the signal is right in front of the bus in that case and the bus op can get a decent amount of the bus into the ISCT before even having gotten the nose of the bus into the left lane if s/he wants to get past the signal and none of the cars are letting the bus into the left lane right away? it is not like half the bus needs to get into the ISCT in order to no longer be subject to any reds on Nostrand. if nobody is letting the bus into the left lane, just move like 5 feet into the ISCT, then inch over, then at that point the vehicles behind you have to wait for you to straighten out in the left lane. then they go to your right to continue straight, then Nostrand gets red, then you go up FB. how do you miss the signal if it turns green after you close the doors?

[Trainmaster5]

The common sense approach, IMO, is to have the SBS stop on Flatbush Avenue after it makes the left turn. At the N/W corner where there's an unused taxi stand (last time I was there).. Make the stop long enough to handle 2 buses and it should work out. The TA would have to reopen the closed booth on track 2 to smooth out the operation on that side. My proposal would pretty much eliminate any confusion with riders looking for local bus service or SBS and delaying both which would occur if both services stopped near each other... The local B44 stop would remain where it is and there wouldn't be a need for a B/O to inch over to the left lane to make that turn onto Flatbush from mid-block or the corner. It also wouldn't tie up traffic at that busy intersection compared to the other options. Carry on.

BTW I believe it would be illegal for the SBS to make a left turn from the right-hand lane if the stop was located at the corner.

[B35 via Church]

they can inch over after having stopped at the corner as well.

 

no guarantee of making the signal in the case of stopping at the corner? how, if the signal is right in front of the bus in that case and the bus op can get a decent amount of the bus into the ISCT before even having gotten the nose of the bus into the left lane if s/he wants to get past the signal and none of the cars are letting the bus into the left lane right away? it is not like half the bus needs to get into the ISCT in order to no longer be subject to any reds on Nostrand. if nobody is letting the bus into the left lane, just move like 5 feet into the ISCT, then inch over, then at that point the vehicles behind you have to wait for you to straighten out in the left lane. then they go to your right to continue straight, then Nostrand gets red, then you go up FB. how do you miss the signal if it turns green after you close the doors?

No, there isn't any guarantee....

 

Are you really gonna sit here & make the case that people will always finish embarking/disembarking the bus when or as the light turns green?

 

The common sense approach, IMO, is to have the SBS stop on Flatbush Avenue after it makes the left turn. At the N/W corner where there's an unused taxi stand (last time I was there).. Make the stop long enough to handle 2 buses and it should work out. The TA would have to reopen the closed booth on track 2 to smooth out the operation on that side. My proposal would pretty much eliminate any confusion with riders looking for local bus service or SBS and delaying both which would occur if both services stopped near each other...

 

The local B44 stop would remain where it is and there wouldn't be a need for a B/O to inch over to the left lane to make that turn onto Flatbush from mid-block or the corner. It also wouldn't tie up traffic at that busy intersection compared to the other options. Carry on.

In that case, the SBS buses coming up from the south would already be on the left hand lane of nostrand av to make that left hand turn on flatbush to stop somewhere around the NW corner..... That scenario/solution would have buses turning left from the left hand lane on nostrand....

 

That last statement is exactly why I'd have the local B44's only stopping there on the SE corner & not the SBS'... The local 44's would be panning straight up nostrand past flatbush....

[BrooklynIRT]

Trainmaster: but that makes it very inconvenient for those who need to get to track 3 and the bus runs the risk of missing a red signal, waiting for it to become green, waiting for traffic to clear so it can turn, then it has to stop there by the HSBC, then pull out and possibly wait for the signal at Flatbush Ave-Glenwood Rd to change from red to green..or deal with all the vehicles coming up Flatbush that do not want to let the bus in if Flatbush has greens at Nostrand.

 

traffic already gets tied up when people want to make left turns from Nostrand to Flatbush, and supposedly those will be restricted to buses (and emergency vehicles of course) after SBS begins. having no vehicle other than one or two northbound buses in one cycle make that left turn creates no worse a situation than having multiple northbound and southbound cars make those left turns.

 

and actually two cases in which buses have to turn left from a near-side bus stop are the Bx10 at Paul Ave-W 205 St northbound and the Bx10, 26, and 28 at Paul Ave-Bedford Pk Blvd southbound. that has been the case for at least a decade. I do not think it is illegal to do such. or maybe it is legal for buses or something. but if it is illegal (especially for buses) that is a revelation to me. and there is more room to move over within the intersection if turning from the corner at JCT than at those two locations along Paul Ave.

 

B35: with the way traffic flows there and given the fact that it is a good 1:15 to 1:30 from the time Nostrand gets a red to the next time it gets a green, I find it reasonable to believe that the bus usually pulls into the stop when the signal is green for Nostrand at Flatbush Ave, picks up and drops off people, closes the doors, and then has to wait several seconds for the signal to become green again because it turns red while the doors are open and because it takes a relatively long time for Nostrand to get a green after it gets a red.

 

this is what I see when I am down there. in the case of SBS it is even more likely that the doors will be closed by the time the signal becomes green because the people get on and off faster. I did not mean that the people will always finish embarking/disembarking the bus when or as the light turns green. I meant they will always finish between the time Nostrand gets a red and the next time it gets a green..which probably happens most of the time now. especially since Nostrand has reds for triple to quadruple the amount of time that it has greens at JCT.

 

still no guarantee of making the next green after the doors are closed?

[B35 via Church]

B35: with the way traffic flows there and given the fact that it is a good 1:15 to 1:30 from the time Nostrand gets a red to the next time it gets a green, I find it reasonable to believe that the bus usually pulls into the stop when the signal is green for Nostrand at Flatbush Ave, picks up and drops off people, closes the doors, and then has to wait several seconds for the signal to become green again because it turns red while the doors are open and because it takes a relatively long time for Nostrand to get a green after it gets a red.

 

this is what I see when I am down there. in the case of SBS it is even more likely that the doors will be closed by the time the signal becomes green because the people get on and off faster. I did not mean that the people will always finish embarking/disembarking the bus when or as the light turns green. I meant they will always finish between the time Nostrand gets a red and the next time it gets a green..which probably happens most of the time now. especially since Nostrand has reds for triple to quadruple the amount of time that it has greens at JCT.

 

still no guarantee of making the next green after the doors are closed?

The part in bold red is what it looked to me like you were implicating; that the light would always be, or just turning green after passenger activity (embarking/disembarking) has ended.... Like there'd never be an instance of where buses would be waiting at a red light.....

 

The part in bold blue - of course it has a better chance of catching the next green light at the corner....

Regardless, the larger point still remains - That's still not a reason to have buses turning left from the right hand lane....

 

BTW I believe it would be illegal for the SBS to make a left turn from the right-hand lane if the stop was located at the corner.

Just noticed this edit....

 

Yeah that's what I thought too.... but I wasn't sure, that's why I didn't bring that up earlier....

[Trainmaster5]

Does it really make a difference if a rider enters the station on track 2 or 3 ? It would seem, at least to me, that having all B44s stop at/near the same point would create congestion at the stairwells on the track 3 side of the station. I haven't been there for a while but don't the B41s and express buses unload near track 3 ? Add to the fact that the Lexington Avenue expresses are located on track 2 it would appear to make more sense to distribute the passenger load a little better than everyone piling up on one side. Traffic-wise, let's just say I've been upstairs at that intersection watching traffic move before Mickey D's, White Castle, Sleepy's, Rite-Aid, MCU, and the rest ever opened their doors. Back when the train dispatcher had to send me upstairs to comb the bars trying to find a C/R to make their next trip, LOL. IMO all that's needed is a left turn arrow ,n/b and s/b, to ease some of the traffic congestion at the intersection and place the SBS stop on the northwest corner. The Lex line is the most used service at this station when it's operated and this places the riders on that side of the station. Carry on.

[BrooklynIRT]

sorry about confusion B35.

 

but I still think the signals are a reason. with all the delays buses incur due to other people's shenanigans on the road, I want to see bus delays minimized as much as possible. you can thank all the people who I have heard going on and on about bus delays and buses being slow and sluggish and whatnot ad nauseam over the course of my life. although in this case I think stopping at the elevator corner is necessary. you know my reasons, but I see that we cannot agree. it is all good. it happens.

 

Trainmaster, more delays from signals and inconsiderate vehicles would be incurred if the SBS stopped on the HSBC block than if it stopped in front of the track 3 entrance. I do agree with your proposal for the purpose of putting people on the Lex side, but for those who want 7th Ave it is pretty bad to have to run like 300' to get over to track 3 as opposed to 100' to get from the track 3 entrance to track 2 if one who enters on the track 3 side wants the Lex line.

 

the BM2 express bus no longer stops at JCT. the B41 unloads on the track 3 side, but at the north entrances. but yes, B41 riders that want track 2 have to run back to the south end like B44 riders.

 

the left turn arrows are not very helpful unless you take time away from the all-walk phase since it just means more vehicles piling up since traffic going straight on Nostrand or turning right from Nostrand to FB or Hillel Place now gets more red time..and the length of the signal cycle increases any way you cut it unless you cut into the walk phase, and if the length of the signal cycle increases then more vehicles pile up.

 

also the left turn arrows would only help if Nostrand were two moving lanes per direction there. (there is a no standing anytime zone on the southbound side in front of HSBC, but nobody obeys it and even commercial trucks including MTA's are there quite a bit. better than double parking on Flatbush I suppose)

 

if they have any foresight they will change the times on some crosswalks if they restrict left turns from Nostrand to northbound buses, because if they implement that restriction they no longer have to worry about private vehicles making those left turns and striking pedestrians (that be one of the reasons that the crosswalk signals are the way they are there, and by the way do you know how long ago it was changed to an all-walk phase if it was not always an all-walk phase?). the two longest crosswalks there can have the signals on either "walk" or blinking "do not walk" while Nostrand has green, so they can change some signals to decrease the number of vehicles piling up.

 

they can do all of that only if they illegalize left turns for non-buses and non-emergency vehicles because only bus ops and emergency vehicle ops, among others, are thoroughly trained to drive safely. (most non-professionals, at least in the tri state area, are not. no offense to the non-professionals who drive safely.)

[BrooklynIRT]

I mean I agree with the idea of putting riders on the track 2 side since the track 3 side is mad busy, but I do not agree with the idea of putting the SBS stop anywhere other than the corner with the elevator for all the other reasons I have stated.

[Grand Concourse]

Well then you are alone on that. I am agreement with b35 about the sbs stop being anywhere but where the elevator is. If you see how packed that area is after school, then good luck getting enough of the eagle team to crack down on the fare beaters. No where is it said the sbs must be the same spot as its local counterpart. I mean the m15 sbs has some spots separate from the local stops. I would prefer the nb sbs stop closer to av H (with just enough space to allow a bus to make a right hand turn from av H).

 

I wonder if they should/could build an above the street crossover? I'm thinking something similar to the Franklin s station setup with the connection to the manhattan bound C. It would be a relief from having to go around the platform to get from one side to the other. I don't think they'd build an underground passage because of fears it would be a muggers' haven.

[BrooklynIRT]

above the street crossover.

 

LOL LESS NATURAL LIGHT OVER JCT

 

LOL EXPENSIVE CAPITAL CONSTRUCTION LIKELY TO GO OVER BUDGET AND FINISH LATE

 

LOL NIMBYs

 

I did not say that to offend you. sorry if it came off as such. I was messing around. I think you get my drift though. honestly I am not sure if even I would want to see something like that over JCT. it may be ok since it would not be running parallel to any roads, but I would have to think it over. would certainly be cheaper than building underground. but connecting the platforms in more locations is of low importance on my transit wish list..and would consequently be of minuscule importance on MTA's wish list. there are higher priorities for mass transit in the JCT area alone. (not including new stations southward.)

 

although one improvement I had in mind could make it more important to connect the platforms in more places: creating tail tracks to increase the capacity of the station. CBTC, although at least decades away, can also increase capacity if they do not want to bother w/ construction. but anyway...

 

enforcement can be dealt with by just stationing enforcers at the next stop southward or northward after JCT and at the southbound JCT stop. anybody who beat the fare and intends on exiting at JCT northbound may not get caught there, but the person will get caught at Kings Hwy b/c there is nowhere the person can possibly go between the two stops. one day station people at KH, next day at Rogers and "D". whether the lawbreaker gets on at KH and off at JCT or on at JCT and off at "D", the person will get caught.

 

that is just for SBS. on regular buses I gather that they watch the people entering the bus to see if they pay at the farebox. if the local bus does not stop right in front of the subway entrance where there is lots of activity then it is easier to see if people pay at the farebox, right?

[spikecat54]

i am trying to get copies and or diagrams from this report...can anyone assist me..please..

 

steve..fdny

[BrooklynIRT]

if you are using microsoft windows, try using "print screen" on your keyboard and then open a bitmap file and right click anywhere in the white space in the bitmap file. you get a drop down menu. left click on "paste" and then just crop out the part of the image you want. "print screen" copies the entire screen you have up, so you have to go to the page that has the diagram you want before pressing the "print screen" button. repeat this entire process for each page of the document that has the diagrams you want.

this is if you are using a mac keyboard: http://osxdaily.com/2010/05/13/print-screen-mac/

[spikecat54]

brooklyn irt

..it is ok..now...thanks...

 

steve

[BrooklynIRT]

after seeing that even Acela prefers not to have the SBS stop right at the corner, I am going to eat my words and say that I agree with having the SBS stop mid-block on the track 3 side of Nostrand and having the local stop at the corner. I think the SBS stop should be as close to the track 3 entrance as possible though. having the subway entrance a few steps from the bus is not a big deal.

 

the only thing is that I would not want the main pole for the SBS stop to be south of the subway grates since that would be too far from the entrance IMO and because the closer you are to the traffic signal the more likely you are to make it when it turns green. also buses tend to be parked there, so putting the main pole there would be useless most of the time.

 

there will be no issue with making the signal after leaving the middle of the block if they ban left turns for non-buses and non-emergency vehicles since vehicles will flow through the ISCT quickly. this would be even less of an issue if they decreased the "walk"/blinking "do not walk" time for the four shortest crosswalks at that ISCT and for Nostrand as I wrote in post #40, because Nostrand would get more green time.

[B35 via Church]

after seeing that even Acela prefers not to have the SBS stop right at the corner, I am going to eat my words and say that I agree with having the SBS stop mid-block on the track 3 side of Nostrand and having the local stop at the corner. 

Lol @ this...... You were making too big a deal & got too stuck on what track side the SBS' should stop on - on top of trying to cut (as you saw it) what miniscule time you could by having buses stop on that corner to begin with..... You were making it sound like you would save so much time having buses stop on the corner, as opposed to having buses stop mid-block like I was originally suggesting..... 

 

 

....I wonder if they should/could build an above the street crossover? I'm thinking something similar to the Franklin s station setup with the connection to the manhattan bound C. It would be a relief from having to go around the platform to get from one side to the other. I don't think they'd build an underground passage because of fears it would be a muggers' haven.

Like the "muggers haven" to get from the WB side to the EB side of LIRR ENY.....

 

Anyway, A pedestrian overpass would be overkill for the junction.... 

[BrooklynIRT]

I still have my doubts about the buses being able to make that signal from the middle of the block unless they give Nostrand extra green time at Flatbush Ave without increasing the overall length of the signal cycle (which can only be done if they decrease the "walk"/blinking "do not walk" time only for the four shortest crosswalks at that ISCT).

 

missing that signal and having to wait another 2 minutes for a green does not sit well with me at all when I want to see the buses move faster so that they do not lose riders due to complaints about "ugh this bus is so slow" and yadda yadda blah blah blah. there will be a problem if some loser parks in the bus stop between roughly the subway grates and the elevator corner because then that forces the bus to move over ASAP (difficult unless you somewhat aggressively stick the nose in between cars) instead of being able to move along the curb first and then move over gradually.

 

even if a local bus is sitting in the curb lane ahead of the SBS bus it should not be an issue b/c the local bus should be ready to leave by the time the signal becomes green again, that way the SBS bus can still move straight ahead behind the local bus and gradually move over. same thing if cars waiting to move are in the curb lane in front of the SBS bus.

 

I will wait and see.

[BrooklynIRT]

it may seem like I am still critical of having the SBS stop mid-block, but I am really not. although the last issue is that there may be a situation in which there is a SBS bus in its stop and there is so much traffic that a local bus behind it and in the left lane has to wait for traffic to clear before it can enter its stop. unless the SBS bus can close doors and move forward before the other traffic clears. then the local bus can move over to the curb.

 

considering the fact that this should be a golden opportunity for DOT to change signals so Nostrand has more green time, I will be much more critical about their not doing so if they do not make this change than I have been about putting the SBS stop in the middle of the block on the track 3 side.

 

they could go on about what if somebody other than a bus or emergency vehicle makes a mistake and tries to turn left and strikes a person, but they have a no turn policy at 5th Ave-East 42 St with no all-walk phase, so if they are worried they should just leave the four shortest crosswalks at JCT alone for about 6 months or something after restricting the left turns to buses and emergency vehicles so other drivers get used to it. then change crosswalk signal times and give Nostrand more green time thereafter.