SBS - The true story (highlighting the proposed B44 SBS)

[BrooklynBus]

Sheepsheadbites B44 SBS Part 1 of 3 -  It's too late to make changes

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/03/b44-select-bus-service-sbs-part-1-of-3-its-too-late-to-make-changes/

 

 

[qjtransitmaster]

Sheepsheadbites B44 SBS Part 1 of 3 -  It's too late to make changes

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/03/b44-select-bus-service-sbs-part-1-of-3-its-too-late-to-make-changes/

will woodhaven SBS go to jfk? What route can possibly go to JFK and be SBS? I heard one polititian call for flushing to JFK how?

[Interested Rider]

If Emblem Health Services (formerly HIP) wants a stop at Avenue S to accommodate persons coming to their Medical Center at that location, there will be a  SBS stop there, period, They do not care who says that there will no further changes to the B/44 SBS proposal.

 

 

[limitednyc]

the stopwill not be needed because there will be local buses going to the bay.

[Mysterious2train]

That's a pretty annoying lie, just like the one about how artics can't make the turn onto Farragut Rd. How are these let through?

 

The Bx12+ got two stops added in after the fact, so it's not impossible. Although like limitednyc said the MTA could use the extension of local buses to Knapp St as an justification for excising those stops.

[BrooklynBus]

will woodhaven SBS go to jfk? What route can possibly go to JFK and be SBS? I heard one polititian call for flushing to JFK how?

I haven't heard that they will add or change routes. My guess is that they will just keep the existing routes and have them use exclusive bus lanes.

 

Flushing to JFK would make sense using the Van Wyck but I can't see any exclusive lanes. That would inconvenience too many.

 

If Emblem Health Services (formerly HIP) wants a stop at Avenue S to accommodate persons coming to their Medical Center at that location, there will be a  SBS stop there, period, They do not care who says that there will no further changes to the B/44 SBS proposal.

They would never put a bus at Avenue S no matter who asks. If they do decide to add a stop after implementation, it would be at Avenue R.

[qjtransitmaster]

I haven't heard that they will add or change routes. My guess is that they will just keep the existing routes and have them use exclusive bus lanes.

 

Flushing to JFK would make sense using the Van Wyck but I can't see any exclusive lanes. That would inconvenience too many.

 

 

They would never put a bus at Avenue S no matter who asks. If they do decide to add a stop after implementation, it would be at Avenue R.

what about flushing to jamacia AIRTRAIN via van wyck to avoid the worst part of it? People can still get the airtrain for JFK? Would it make sense for a route from the bronx to JFK with a few queens stops? Or too much?

[peacemak3r]

Was the B44 SBS map released or leaked anywhere?  I would like to see it if possible, I didn't see it in the article.

 

I do want to see how traffic will run when this is implemented as well as Nostrand Ave during peak hours is already packed as it is.

[BrooklynBus]

what about flushing to jamacia AIRTRAIN via van wyck to avoid the worst part of it? People can still get the airtrain for JFK? Would it make sense for a route from the bronx to JFK with a few queens stops? Or too much?

I believe Airtrain cost $3 billion. Do we have another 3 billion laying around?

 

Was the B44 SBS map released or leaked anywhere?  I would like to see it if possible, I didn't see it in the article.

 

I do want to see how traffic will run when this is implemented as well as Nostrand Ave during peak hours is already packed as it is.

I don't believe any maps have been issued, but I imagine they would be very similar to the ones already available on the internet. There are links in the story or just go to the MTA or DOT website.

 

Traffic will be horrible except for buses. Drivers will seek alternate routes so all the parallel streets will be probably 20% slower.

[qjtransitmaster]

I believe Airtrain cost $3 billion. Do we have another 3 billion laying around?

 

 

I don't believe any maps have been issued, but I imagine they would be very similar to the ones already available on the internet. There are links in the story or just go to the MTA or DOT website.

 

Traffic will be horrible except for buses. Drivers will seek alternate routes so all the parallel streets will be probably 20% slower.

B44 SBS seems like overkill.

[BrooklynIRT]

Was the B44 SBS map released or leaked anywhere?  I would like to see it if possible, I didn't see it in the article.

 

I do want to see how traffic will run when this is implemented as well as Nostrand Ave during peak hours is already packed as it is.

with the illegally parked vehicles or without?

 

 

 

I believe Airtrain cost $3 billion. Do we have another 3 billion laying around?

 

 

I don't believe any maps have been issued, but I imagine they would be very similar to the ones already available on the internet. There are links in the story or just go to the MTA or DOT website.

 

Traffic will be horrible except for buses. Drivers will seek alternate routes so all the parallel streets will be probably 20% slower.

in that respect, how is having a bus lane that cars cannot use any different from having a lane that cars cannot use because other cars are double-parked in it, which happens all the time now?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LOL... You know I wouldn't be surprised if this was an tactic to get people to use the M15SBS... I've noticed the same trend on other lines... Years ago when the M2 was running more frequently, you couldn't get a local bus to save your life on 5th Avenue below 23rd street. You could wait 30 minutes for a M1 or an M3 while several M2's and M5's would pass.  Now, it's the reverse.... The M2 and M5 run sporadically and M1's, M3's are more frequent and reliable and make the M2 and M5 useless at times depending on your destination which is bizarre because the M2 and M5 are supposed to be faster because they're limited stop buses...  

 

I've also noticed this trend with the M15SBS... The local bus is hit or miss and M15SBS is the show of the town even if you have to wait a bit, but they'll be several of them before a local bus comes.  I would be curious how the Bx12SBS is working now that buses can be tracked because there is something very fishy about the uneven levels of service on certain lines.  Do these local buses go MIA?? Or they turned around earlier due to being stuck in traffic or what's the deal because something does not add up.

[paulrivera]

On a good day, the M2 and M5 are scheduled to come every 10-15 minutes each and the M1 and M3 are about every 10-12 minutes each. Once those buses get caught in a long delay, they usually get short turned, screwing over everyone who rides the ends of these routes. That 10-15 minute wait can turn into a 30+ minute wait easily, especially if you need the M5 south of the East Village.

 

For a Manhattan route, the M2 and M3 might be a bit long (the M1 is just the right length IMO), but the M5 is way too long, Limited or not. A lot of things can happen on a bus run between Washington Heights and South Ferry.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On a good day, the M2 and M5 are scheduled to come every 10-15 minutes each and the M1 and M3 are about every 10-12 minutes each. Once those buses get caught in a long delay, they usually get short turned, screwing over everyone who rides the ends of these routes. That 10-15 minute wait can turn into a 30+ minute wait easily, especially if you need the M5 south of the East Village.

 

For a Manhattan route, the M2 and M3 might be a bit long (the M1 is just the right length IMO), but the M5 is way too long, Limited or not. A lot of things can happen on a bus run between Washington Heights and South Ferry.

Good points... I just don't understand why the M2 and M5 service has deteriorated so much.... The M2 used to be about every 10 -12 minutes.... Now it's every 15 most of the day and far fewer buses... When SBS first started, you'd see a decent amount of M15 locals and SBS buses... Now SBS buses are far more frequent, almost as if the local bus is an afterthought. I could see the same thing happening with the B44 too...

[QM1to6Ave]

LOL... You know I wouldn't be surprised if this was an tactic to get people to use the M15SBS... I've noticed the same trend on other lines... Years ago when the M2 was running more frequently, you couldn't get a local bus to save your life on 5th Avenue below 23rd street. You could wait 30 minutes for a M1 or an M3 while several M2's and M5's would pass.  Now, it's the reverse.... The M2 and M5 run sporadically and M1's, M3's are more frequent and reliable and make the M2 and M5 useless at times depending on your destination which is bizarre because the M2 and M5 are supposed to be faster because they're limited stop buses...  

 

I've also noticed this trend with the M15SBS... The local bus is hit or miss and M15SBS is the show of the town even if you have to wait a bit, but they'll be several of them before a local bus comes.  I would be curious how the Bx12SBS is working now that buses can be tracked because there is something very fishy about the uneven levels of service on certain lines.  Do these local buses go MIA?? Or they turned around earlier due to being stuck in traffic or what's the deal because something does not add up.

 

I think it is a more general problem with local buses in Manhattan in general. There is so much traffic that, like paulrivera said, the buses get turned around early, stuck in traffic, etc. Plus lots of wheelchair people use the buses, which slows them down even more.

 

At this point, if I need to go somewhere in Manhattan and I'm not walking it, I'll keep an eye out for a local bus, and if it comes I will jump on it, since they are usually pretty empty, but I'll plan to walk to the subway because the bus likely won't come. And usually I end up on the subway because the local bus never shows up. 

[cotb16]

LOL... You know I wouldn't be surprised if this was an tactic to get people to use the M15SBS... I've noticed the same trend on other lines... Years ago when the M2 was running more frequently, you couldn't get a local bus to save your life on 5th Avenue below 23rd street. You could wait 30 minutes for a M1 or an M3 while several M2's and M5's would pass.  Now, it's the reverse.... The M2 and M5 run sporadically and M1's, M3's are more frequent and reliable and make the M2 and M5 useless at times depending on your destination which is bizarre because the M2 and M5 are supposed to be faster because they're limited stop buses...  

 

I've also noticed this trend with the M15SBS... The local bus is hit or miss and M15SBS is the show of the town even if you have to wait a bit, but they'll be several of them before a local bus comes.  I would be curious how the Bx12SBS is working now that buses can be tracked because there is something very fishy about the uneven levels of service on certain lines.  Do these local buses go MIA?? Or they turned around earlier due to being stuck in traffic or what's the deal because something does not add up.

 

With the Bx12, it's similar. But sometimes, the local could be more reliable than the SBS because it avoids the traffic west of Sedgwick Avenue (on the University Heights Bridge, 207th Street and the Deegan Expressway) and east of Pelham Bay Park (specifically, Bartow Avenue and the New England Thruway).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think it is a more general problem with local buses in Manhattan in general. There is so much traffic that, like paulrivera said, the buses get turned around early, stuck in traffic, etc. Plus lots of wheelchair people use the buses, which slows them down even more.

 

At this point, if I need to go somewhere in Manhattan and I'm not walking it, I'll keep an eye out for a local bus, and if it comes I will jump on it, since they are usually pretty empty, but I'll plan to walk to the subway because the bus likely won't come. And usually I end up on the subway because the local bus never shows up. 

Actually, the wheelchairs aren't that big of a deal anymore. I've been on Madison Avenue buses with two wheelchairs and it's a very quick process with the low floor buses... Just have the ramp open up, the person gets on the ramp and boom on the bus.  On weekends, I tend to use to the local buses in the city because the subways are such a mess since I usually have numerous options to chose from but if my only choice is the M20 on 8th Avenue, I'd probably stick to the subway.   It's not such much that the bus is slow but that it sort of shows up whenever.  I think when Bus Time comes into play it'll be esp. useful in the city.

 

With the Bx12, it's similar. But sometimes, the local could be more reliable than the SBS because it avoids the traffic west of Sedgwick Avenue (on the University Heights Bridge, 207th Street and the Deegan Expressway) and east of Pelham Bay Park (specifically, Bartow Avenue and the New England Thruway).

But what do people prefer usually? The SBS or the local??

[qjtransitmaster]

they flock to the SBS moreso than the local. VG8

[BrooklynBus]

with the illegally parked vehicles or without?

 

 

 

in that respect, how is having a bus lane that cars cannot use any different from having a lane that cars cannot use because other cars are double-parked in it, which happens all the time now?

 

 

The situations are not quite identical. I don't know if you drive or not, but even if a lane is partially blocked by double-parked cars it is still somewhat usable. Cars just have to move back and forth between lanes slowing traffic and there is not always double parking all the time. There are a few blocks that are free.  

 

With an exclusive bus lane, that lane is only available for right turns so capacity is just reduced period.. The only advantage of the exclusive lane is that it is somewhat more enforceable. But if there were random checks with summons given, cars would double park less.

 

The problem we have with enforcement is that it is not used as a means to improve traffic flow, but solely as a means to raise revenue.  That means the same attention is given to double parkers on  streets where they cause no traffic problem at all as on streets where they cause traffic to stop completely. Police only give tickets when they have to to fill their quota.

[Quill Depot]

I think it is a more general problem with local buses in Manhattan in general. There is so much traffic that, like paulrivera said, the buses get turned around early, stuck in traffic, etc. Plus lots of wheelchair people use the buses, which slows them down even more.

 

At this point, if I need to go somewhere in Manhattan and I'm not walking it, I'll keep an eye out for a local bus, and if it comes I will jump on it, since they are usually pretty empty, but I'll plan to walk to the subway because the bus likely won't come. And usually I end up on the subway because the local bus never shows up. 

Yes. SBS is way overadvertised. This draws away attention from the local bus.

[Gorgor]

What's being said is the completely opposite from what I've experienced.

 

Many times I've been waiting for an M15 SBS and see many locals pass by.  A few times after waiting 5+ minutes I've just given up and boarded the local instead and got to my destination (about 2 miles on the bus) without an SBS passing us.

[B35 via Church]

another one of these anti-SBS blogs.... Yeah I'm not pro-SBS either, but good grief... We get the point already.

 

 

But what do people prefer usually? The SBS or the local??

On the Bx12, if we're talking WB, it's definitely the SBS buses....

EB, I wouldn't think there's a drastic variation to that assessment either, so I'm going to go ahead & say they gun more for the SBS' also...

 

What's being said is the completely opposite from what I've experienced.

 

Many times I've been waiting for an M15 SBS and see many locals pass by.  A few times after waiting 5+ minutes I've just given up and boarded the local instead and got to my destination (about 2 miles on the bus) without an SBS passing us.

Funny thing w/ me is, when I'm out & about, I tend to see more SBS M15's when I don't need em & end up saying screw it & taking the local when I do want the SBS.... This is why I wait to see what bus is in the distance first before I use the SBS payment machines....

[qjtransitmaster]

Yes. SBS is way overadvertised. This draws away attention from the local bus.

That is the point That is what MTA wants and most manhattan travelers want. If it's slow and unreliable why use it.

[Gorgor]

Funny thing w/ me is, when I'm out & about, I tend to see more SBS M15's when I don't need em & end up saying screw it & taking the local when I do want the SBS.... This is why I wait to see what bus is in the distance first before I use the SBS payment machines....

 

It's annoying as hell that they got rid of the flashing blue lights to distinguish SBS from local.  Just get a ticket and just walk into the local bus with it in your hand, I've never been stopped or had a bus driver say anything to me from doing that.  If there are bad delays on the SBS then you'll see many people give up and board a local bus like that.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes. SBS is way overadvertised. This draws away attention from the local bus.

 

Which is what the MTA wants. +SBS+ buses cost less to operate, because the runtime is shorter (so a 20% shorter runtime means you an achieve the same frequencies with 20% less labor, and 20% fewer buses out on the road). When the Bx12 & M15 received +SBS+, overall ridership increased, but ridership on the locals decreased.

 

Plus, in addition to getting people off the locals, all that advertising helps draw new riders (from driving or walking or whatever).