Lighting in IND tunnels vs IRT/BMT tunnels

[DanTheTransitMan]

One thing I have noticed in my travels throughout the system is that on average IND tunnels have less lighting then BMT and IRT tunnels. Why is this?

[Quill Depot]

One thing I have noticed in my travels throughout the system is that on average IND tunnels have less lighting then BMT and IRT tunnels. Why is this?

 

To me, IND tunnels seem like they have more lighting.

[RTOMan]

The 6th and 8th ave trunk Lines in Manhattan ,have much more and brighter lighting..

[Eric B]

The BMT and most of the IRT, and some parts of the IND had received new Appleton lighting fixtures; the oldest ones originally mercury vapor, and then they decided to go with CFL. These were placed closer together. That's why they looked brighter.

 

Most of the IND, and it looks like the IRT 7th Ave. line, retained their original incandescent fixtures, but some stretches; especially places that had FASTRACK work, received new Dialight LED bulbs in the old fixtures. They're larger, because of the heat sinks required to prevent the LED's from overheating, so they stick out of the fixtures, and so the tunnel looks even brighter. In a few places, such as north of 47/50. these were placed in the new Appleton fixtures.

The CFL's required new fixtures because the current or voltage had to be kept constant, IIRC, where the LED's can go in either fixture.

(Will see if they begin installing them on the Queens local track, where they're doing FASTRACK this week).

 

Here was a thread from a year ago, when the LED's began going in, in earnest: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/33234-question-about-tunnel-lighting/

[itmaybeokay]

The BMT and most of the IRT, and some parts of the IND had received new Appleton lighting fixtures; the oldest ones originally mercury vapor, and then they decided to go with CFL. These were placed closer together. That's why they looked brighter.

 

Most of the IND, and it looks like the IRT 7th Ave. line, retained their original incandescent fixtures, but some stretches; especially places that had FASTRACK work, received new Dialight LED bulbs in the old fixtures. They're larger, because of the heat sinks required to prevent the LED's from overheating, so they stick out of the fixtures, and so the tunnel looks even brighter. In a few places, such as north of 47/50. these were placed in the new Appleton fixtures.

The CFL's required new fixtures because the current or voltage had to be kept constant, IIRC, where the LED's can go in either fixture.

(Will see if they begin installing them on the Queens local track, where they're doing FASTRACK this week).

 

Here was a thread from a year ago, when the LED's began going in, in earnest: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/33234-question-about-tunnel-lighting/

 

Some chunks of the QBL already have LED fixtures actually. Except I just noticed you said local track, which doesn't have them. I should edit this post before submitting it and not keep typing about my mistake but I've already come this far. I live over there I'll let you know if I see LED's. 

 

Unrelated/Related question: 

Does anyone know what's up with the sections of track where the lighting is strangely dim? I mean, it's not that there are few lights - it's that all the lights appear to be like 25 watt appliance bulbs or something. Almost like they aren't getting enough voltage. Is there any 25hz equipment left in the subway, and does that have something to do with it? Or is it just old and faulty wiring? 

 

Specific examples are the Crosstown line between Bedford and Classon, and QBL around 71st I think. 

 

There's also the 11th st cut just north of queens plaza where the long-tube style fluo's have been put in, but they are barely on (one glows purple, I don't know if someone's trying to have a blacklight party over there) That part I always just thought was water intrusion. Which seems to wear hard on pretty much all the stations in LI City. 

[Quill Depot]

I don't know how to embed this, but I found this:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFwQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michaelpodwill.com%2Fuploads%2FPanasonic%2520Subway%2520feature%2520story.doc&ei=k8BIUfukLIfE4APL2oHgBA&usg=AFQjCNGK79xwmcxB1Foa-2V712dymdwt6g&sig2=_eg-vHGB8f2vgep-GaORbg

[R188 7857]

The Broadway line is pretty dark, I mean the .

[realizm]

The BMT and most of the IRT, and some parts of the IND had received new Appleton lighting fixtures; the oldest ones originally mercury vapor, and then they decided to go with CFL. These were placed closer together. That's why they looked brighter.

 

Most of the IND, and it looks like the IRT 7th Ave. line, retained their original incandescent fixtures, but some stretches; especially places that had FASTRACK work, received new Dialight LED bulbs in the old fixtures. They're larger, because of the heat sinks required to prevent the LED's from overheating, so they stick out of the fixtures, and so the tunnel looks even brighter. In a few places, such as north of 47/50. these were placed in the new Appleton fixtures.

The CFL's required new fixtures because the current or voltage had to be kept constant, IIRC, where the LED's can go in either fixture.

(Will see if they begin installing them on the Queens local track, where they're doing FASTRACK this week).

 

Here was a thread from a year ago, when the LED's began going in, in earnest: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/33234-question-about-tunnel-lighting/

 

This is some good information. All ears in this thread. I would like to say I wished they would get to the CPW with the new Dialight LED bulbs already. I guess as you suggested in your post, during the next FASTRACK on the CPW

[CenSin]

They're larger, because of the heat sinks required to prevent the LED's from overheating

Sounds like another place the MTA could go to for savings—by recycling that heat back into electricity.

[Eric B]

 I live over there I'll let you know if I see LED's. 

 

I'll see tomorrow when I go back to work on the line. (Will this be more than one week, in case they haven't installed any?)

Sounds like another place the MTA could go to for savings—by recycling that heat back into electricity.

I don't know if any such bulb has been invented that can recycle the energy. (like regenerative breaking).That would be a great idea, but I've never heard of it. The heat is just dissipated.

[LTA1992]

One thing I have noticed in my travels throughout the system is that on average IND tunnels have less lighting then BMT and IRT tunnels. Why is this?

I agree. Until the FASTRACK work, the IND tunnels were way darker than the other two portions. The lights seemed smaller and some stretches had no lights at all. The new LEDs make the tunnels seem more pleasing to the eye for some reason. As well as brighter.

[Eric B]

The “whiter” (3500-5000K) color looks nicer and illuminates the steel dust covered tunnels better, while the brown incandescents and CFL imitations (2700K and less) just blend in with it, and makes the whole “air” of the place dingy.

 

Also, did a trip and there are no new bulbs on the local. It really needs new bulbs, as there are large stretches where all the lights are out. So we'll see in the rest of the week. They did have a string of the new LED “bank” lights in one place, and they look so wild!

[DanTheTransitMan]

The “whiter” (3500-5000K) color looks nicer and illuminates the steel dust covered tunnels better, while the brown incandescents and CFL imitations (2700K and less) just blend in with it, and makes the whole “air” of the place dingy.

 

Also, did a trip and there are no new bulbs on the local. It really needs new bulbs, as there are large stretches where all the lights are out. So we'll see in the rest of the week. They did have a string of the new LED “bank” lights in one place, and they look so wild!

 

Also the Fulton and CPW should ideally be up next to get some lights... Whenever I'm looking through the Railfann window of a R32 I can barely see what's infront of me.

[Culver]

Also the Fulton and CPW should ideally be up next to get some lights... Whenever I'm looking through the Railfann window of a R32 I can barely see what's infront of me.

Damn right. Few times I've taken the in Brooklyn there is pretty much zero light in those tunnels.

 

EDIT: Didn't wanna bump the tunnel lighting linked in this thread, so here's two links:

 

http://phys.org/news/2012-12-goodbye-fluorescent-bulbs-technology-wont.html

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/142086-new-plastic-light-bulbs-are-cheap-bright-shatterproof-and-flicker-free

 

For production this year, so the might be using these next. All the benefits of LED, absolutely none of the downsides.

[Eric B]

I don't know how to embed this, but I found this:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFwQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michaelpodwill.com%2Fuploads%2FPanasonic%2520Subway%2520feature%2520story.doc&ei=k8BIUfukLIfE4APL2oHgBA&usg=AFQjCNGK79xwmcxB1Foa-2V712dymdwt6g&sig2=_eg-vHGB8f2vgep-GaORbg

Just got around to reading this. I remember most of those lighting types mentioned.

The 1969-72 mercuries were located in one place: Montague, southbound, first half of the tunnel. When my mother took me to work (Union Sq. or Cooper Union), I would always want to go home that way, to see those.

Not sure what mercuries were installed in '76, but mercuries didn't start spreading past Montague until the current fixtures (which were later converted to CFL) went in, in the 90's. 

 

Also didn't know which fluorescent tubes went in in the 70's, unless they're talking about 63rd St., which was built in parts and not opened yet (don't know if the fixtures were installed). Joralemon the line and other places were retrofitted in the 80's.

(Perhaps these years mark when they officially switched to the new bulbs, even if actual installation occurred later).

 

High and low pressure sodiums tested on the Lex express south of 59th. Some earlier CFL's ("Earth Light" style) also tested there and on Fulton between Lafayette and Hoyt.

[Around the Horn]

What kind of lights are the long tubes in Eastern Parkway ?

[Eric B]

The 4 ft fluorescent tubes.

[Around the Horn]

The 4 ft fluorescent tubes.

thanks

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

The 4 ft fluorescent tubes.

Are these the same fluorescent lighting in the 63rd Street Tunnel(west of 21st St to North of 57th Street) and the Archer Avenue line?

[Eric B]

Yes. 4 foot tubes are 4 foot tubes. The only thing I don't quite get is the early date for start of installation, but otherwise, they're the same lights.