That Split Q G.O. / Weekday Late Nights

[Brighton Local]

Since I first get off work at 12:20am now, it seems its such a challenge for me to get home by 2:00am. Why? I walk to Herald Square-34 St, to grab 12:40sh a.m. Train to Brooklyn, only to find when it pulls in, it signed up for Atlantic-Pacific. I read the G.O. Posters, so yes, I do prep myself for the "run" to get home. I don't mind that they're doing the construction between Atlantic & Prospect Park, with the single track operation, but on 30 minute headway's? That's the worst part! Last night I got off the on the 4 Av Side at 1:03am; myself and hundreds of other graveyard commuters ran across the entire Atlantic Av-Pacific St-Barclays Center Complex from 4 Av to the Brighton Platform, where a Wrong-Railing Coney Island-Bound was awaiting its departure on the Manhattan-Bound Track. Now, instead of running the Brighton Shuttle half of the route every 30 minutes, wouldn't it make sense for the TA to install a new "X" Crossover, just south of the station? Knock down the walls that's in the way, and lay that bad boy down. At least then, you can still get your 20-minute headway's, and actually utilize Atlantic Av as a REAL terminal on The Brighton Line. For all of us late-night commuters who ride the , get ready, this G.O. is scheduled for the next 3 weeks, and it doesn't ever seem to end. Last week, we caught a break and nothing was scheduled, but its back. Like I said, the worst part of this is, the 30-minute Brighton Line headway's.  2 Weeks ago, I caught myself taking a Southbound Express, from Herald Square to Canal St upper level, because the Southbound Broadway Local track has been under construction during late nights and weekends, with the and operating Express from 57 or 34 Sts to Canal St. So I get off the at Canal, and start seeing those lights coming from the Brooklyn-Bound Express Track, and sure enough it was the . The time is 12:50am, and  I need to be at Atlantic Av for 1:03am, the latest, or I miss my 1:05am from Atlantic to Brighton. I have no choice; Again, myself, and about a hundreds more, ran down, then up, and across, the entire Canal St Complex to catch the Northern part of the split on the Canal St-Bridge Platform. We arrive at Atlantic at 1:05am exactly... We all get off and run like crazy to the Brighton Platform, only to see, that the passengers in the 5th car, hold open a half a door, so more and more and more and more people can get on. We wind up leaving at Atlantic at around 1:15, gets me home for about 2:00am.  Now, I usually don't rant about G.O.s and stuff, however, Ive been thinking of a more "logical" and more "human" way this construction can be done, without this being like a Circus-act with the running and screaming of holding doors. Last week,I was thinking, the hell with the split , ill grab the or from Herald Square to Coney Island, then grab an Atlantic Av-Bound from there..........Only to find out, that late nights, both, the & are running in 2 sections also.... , thank you so much, for making it very easy for us graveyard shift employees to get home with NOOO direct link to Brooklyn! You go ahead and split 3-Main routes up so it takes us twice as long to get home..

[overclocked]

There is actually allocated space for crossover south of the station, it's more halfway between 7th and Atlantic, but it could get the job done regardless. For me if its past 11 pm and if I'm still in school, I would stay the night, won't even bother going home, because it will take forever and will result in lost time. 

[CenSin]

wouldn't it make sense for the TA to install a new "X" Crossover, just south of the station? Knock down the walls that's in the way, and lay that bad boy down.

The stopping at 74 Street–Broadway seems to be important enough to warrant moving an entire set of switches… I wonder what's holding this up.

[realizm]

This reminds me of when I was living in Ridgewood 4 years ago when still in college and they had the overnight GOs on the for weeks practically. With Lorimer St as the last stop, then a bus as the as on the other end of the line the trains Rockaway Ave/Carnasie bound were terminating @ Broadway Junction. OMG that was fustrating. Tired from school and work, the last thing you want to deal with is having to get off at Lorimer Street and fight amongst mobs to get to a late shuttle bus that is crushloaded which are running almost 20 min apart just to get home. One time I was so infuriated and beaten down with exaustion and sleep deprivation from F/T work and school only to see this, I said the hell with it and took a taxi.

 

Nowadays if I see there is a GO affecting my commute if I have a late night contract to furfill, you know I'm jumping in the car and hitting the highway to work, taking no chances whatsoever. Not going through that.

[INDman]

I gave up on taking the train home on the midnights, the money I spend on tolls and gas evens out with the time I sit waiting for the train.

[LRG]

Yeah, time definitely is money. Spending extra money may not be the number one choice in mind at times but if it get the job done quicker then sometimes you'll have to.

 

Since I started taking evening classes that end at almost 10:00 I don't even bother dealing with the S62 > S53 > if I know I'm not going to get out of class after 9:30. I hate dealing with the after 10:30 because the shuttles to 36th Street begin around then and waiting for the or is another hassle. I just take the X10 right out front of CSI and catch the in Lower Manhattan...worst case scenario is if the is rerouted  via the after West Fourth Street, then I'll catch the there instead of at Fulton Street.

 

To Zach...I was going to suggest taking the X27 or X28 to Brooklyn but the last buses leave 57th/Third at 11:30, an hour before you get off. So that's out of the question.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah this is what I talk about when I say that having to make multiple transfers eats up precious time.  Not only that but it physically draining.  I would recommend the BM3, but they've cut that down to 23:30 now so that's not an option...  The one thing they should do is beef up late night service on a few subway lines because it's absolutely the pits esp. since the waits are long and the connections are not at all coordinated. It's one thing to not coordinate trains when they're frequent, but when they're running every 20 minutes, it's insane to no sort of coordination.

[LRG]

There is the BM2 that he can take since last bus leaves 57th Street at 12:15 in the morning. Looking at the time he gets out of work he could definitely make the bus. The only catch is he'd have to transfer to the train at Cortelyou Road...if he sees a B68 bus coming down Coney Island Avenue then he can catch that as well.

[TheKorean]

What are the MTA doing that requires this ridiculous delay? Some explanation would go a long way making people more patient.

 

At 12 30 I just wanna go home already.

[qjtransitmaster]

Since I first get off work at 12:20am now, it seems its such a challenge for me to get home by 2:00am. Why? I walk to Herald Square-34 St, to grab 12:40sh a.m. Train to Brooklyn, only to find when it pulls in, it signed up for Atlantic-Pacific. I read the G.O. Posters, so yes, I do prep myself for the "run" to get home. I don't mind that they're doing the construction between Atlantic & Prospect Park, with the single track operation, but on 30 minute headway's? That's the worst part! Last night I got off the on the 4 Av Side at 1:03am; myself and hundreds of other graveyard commuters ran across the entire Atlantic Av-Pacific St-Barclays Center Complex from 4 Av to the Brighton Platform, where a Wrong-Railing Coney Island-Bound was awaiting its departure on the Manhattan-Bound Track. Now, instead of running the Brighton Shuttle half of the route every 30 minutes, wouldn't it make sense for the TA to install a new "X" Crossover, just south of the station? Knock down the walls that's in the way, and lay that bad boy down. At least then, you can still get your 20-minute headway's, and actually utilize Atlantic Av as a REAL terminal on The Brighton Line. For all of us late-night commuters who ride the , get ready, this G.O. is scheduled for the next 3 weeks, and it doesn't ever seem to end. Last week, we caught a break and nothing was scheduled, but its back. Like I said, the worst part of this is, the 30-minute Brighton Line headway's.  2 Weeks ago, I caught myself taking a Southbound Express, from Herald Square to Canal St upper level, because the Southbound Broadway Local track has been under construction during late nights and weekends, with the and operating Express from 57 or 34 Sts to Canal St. So I get off the at Canal, and start seeing those lights coming from the Brooklyn-Bound Express Track, and sure enough it was the . The time is 12:50am, and  I need to be at Atlantic Av for 1:03am, the latest, or I miss my 1:05am from Atlantic to Brighton. I have no choice; Again, myself, and about a hundreds more, ran down, then up, and across, the entire Canal St Complex to catch the Northern part of the split on the Canal St-Bridge Platform. We arrive at Atlantic at 1:05am exactly... We all get off and run like crazy to the Brighton Platform, only to see, that the passengers in the 5th car, hold open a half a door, so more and more and more and more people can get on. We wind up leaving at Atlantic at around 1:15, gets me home for about 2:00am.  Now, I usually don't rant about G.O.s and stuff, however, Ive been thinking of a more "logical" and more "human" way this construction can be done, without this being like a Circus-act with the running and screaming of holding doors. Last week,I was thinking, the hell with the split , ill grab the or from Herald Square to Coney Island, then grab an Atlantic Av-Bound from there..........Only to find out, that late nights, both, the & are running in 2 sections also.... , thank you so much, for making it very easy for us graveyard shift employees to get home with NOOO direct link to Brooklyn! You go ahead and split 3-Main routes up so it takes us twice as long to get home..

If they are going to run trains that shitty why even bother running them at all? Just beef up express PM night outbound departures until 1:30 am run em every 15 to 10 mins each. I mean cmon MTA if you are going to make the subway this shitastic just run shuttle buses for local service in manhattan and end em at transfer points to express buses. Then have another bus from atlantic to midtown manhattan. And have trains from there or shuttle buses to cover parts of the and with BM3 running as shuttle for . And Others like extended to CI instead of running in 2 parts. Cut short and use other modes Express buses actually are very close to the culver line at church ave@ mcdonald ave.

[Wallyhorse]

This is where what I would do is this for such a situation:

Run the and all night to New Lots and Flatbush Avenues respctively to supplement the and to Franklin Avenue, also running a 300' train from the Botanic Garden station to Coney Island on the Prospect Park-bound track while a single shuttle runs Botanic Garden-Franklin Avenue on the other track.  This can be instead of or in addition to the split and encourage people to use the in such a situation where possible.

[Threxx]

This is where what I would do is this for such a situation:

 

Run the and all night to New Lots and Flatbush Avenues respctively to supplement the and to Franklin Avenue, also running a 300' train from the Botanic Garden station to Coney Island on the Prospect Park-bound track while a single shuttle runs Botanic Garden-Franklin Avenue on the other track.  This can be instead of or in addition to the split and encourage people to use the in such a situation where possible.

 

You lost me once you started talking about Q via the Franklin Shuttle.

[realizm]

@ Wally: WHY? The is used most frequently for manhattan-centric passengers! via Franklin? So what's going to replace Brighton service to the city then? What? teh NX?

[Wallyhorse]

@ Wally: WHY? The is used most frequently for manhattan-centric passengers! via Franklin? So what's going to replace Brighton service to the city then? What? teh NX?

Nothing.  It would be in addition to any service from Manhattan-Pacific Street for those who need it.

 

Yes, there is an extra transfer involved if you use the , but the idea here is to encourage people to use the and wherever possible (and again, for this the and would both be running full routes during this G.O., even overnights).  The and in this scenario would pick up the slack for those who'd want 7th Avenue on the (since Grand Army Plaza is close to that station) while those looking for Prospect Park and points south would be able to take the IRT to Franklin Avenue for the directly there.  This actually would allow for the entire stretch of the Brighton Line between where it breaks away after DeKalb Avenue and the Brighton tracks at Prospect Park to be shut down (since the would be on the shuttle tracks there with the normally unused "local" track at Prospect Park in service for this). 

[realizm]

That's not going to work, no way.

 

During rush hours trains only runs at 10 TPH at 8-10 minute intervals at the very most. Now imagine you take 2 sets of cars off the line for Franklin ave service. That's going to result in 20 minute waits easy. Take the bottlenecking at Dekalb into consideration. During the morning or evening rush? That will create catastrophic havoc in terms of delays either way, whether northbound or southbound.

 

I would imagine that is why obviously we have shuttle service. So in other words ... If it ain't broke don't fix it. 

 

Wait there's more.... why are we encouraging riders to use the IRT, do you realize how congested the Brooklyn IRT is during the rush? Ummmm, nope.

[LRG]

This is where what I would do is this for such a situation:

 

Run the and all night to New Lots and Flatbush Avenues respctively to supplement the and to Franklin Avenue, also running a 300' train from the Botanic Garden station to Coney Island on the Prospect Park-bound track while a single shuttle runs Botanic Garden-Franklin Avenue on the other track.  This can be instead of or in addition to the split and encourage people to use the in such a situation where possible.

 

 

Nothing.  It would be in addition to any service from Manhattan-Pacific Street for those who need it.

 

Yes, there is an extra transfer involved if you use the , but the idea here is to encourage people to use the and wherever possible (and again, for this the and would both be running full routes during this G.O., even overnights).  The and in this scenario would pick up the slack for those who'd want 7th Avenue on the (since Grand Army Plaza is close to that station) while those looking for Prospect Park and points south would be able to take the IRT to Franklin Avenue for the directly there.  This actually would allow for the entire stretch of the Brighton Line between where it breaks away after DeKalb Avenue and the Brighton tracks at Prospect Park to be shut down (since the would be on the shuttle tracks there with the normally unused "local" track at Prospect Park in service for this). 

 

No.

[B35 via Church]

This is where what I would do is this for such a situation:

 

Run the and all night to New Lots and Flatbush Avenues respctively to supplement the and to Franklin Avenue, also running a 300' train from the Botanic Garden station to Coney Island on the Prospect Park-bound track while a single shuttle runs Botanic Garden-Franklin Avenue on the other track.  This can be instead of or in addition to the split and encourage people to use the in such a situation where possible.

 

I'm telling you right now that you aint goin get Brighton riders to abandon taking Q's for the IRT from manhattan to catch some bastardized Q that starts at Botanic Garden.... Riders that have to take the IRT at night barely wanna put up with it.....

 

In short, get real.

[j express]

This is where what I would do is this for such a situation:

 

Run the and all night to New Lots and Flatbush Avenues respctively to supplement the and to Franklin Avenue, also running a 300' train from the Botanic Garden station to Coney Island on the Prospect Park-bound track while a single shuttle runs Botanic Garden-Franklin Avenue on the other track.  This can be instead of or in addition to the split and encourage people to use the in such a situation where possible.

That was an ill advised post right there! Posting stuff like this can make everyone go crazy and nuts. The MTA would be way much smarter than to send the  via the shuttle. Think before you post.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the idea, but.....

 

@ Wally: WHY? The is used most frequently for manhattan-centric passengers! via Franklin? So what's going to replace Brighton service to the city then? What? teh NX?

 

During the GO, there is no Brighton service to Manhattan. The idea is to transfer at Franklin Avenue rather than Atlantic.

 

That's not going to work, no way.

 

During rush hours trains only runs at 10 TPH at 8-10 minute intervals at the very most. Now imagine you take 2 sets of cars off the line for Franklin ave service. That's going to result in 20 minute waits easy. Take the bottlenecking at Dekalb into consideration. During the morning or evening rush? That will create catastrophic havoc in terms of delays either way, whether northbound or southbound.

 

I would imagine that is why obviously we have shuttle service. So in other words ... If it ain't broke don't fix it. 

 

Wait there's more.... why are we encouraging riders to use the IRT, do you realize how congested the Brooklyn IRT is during the rush? Ummmm, nope.

 

Who said anything about morning or evening rush? This is during the overnight GO.

[realizm]

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the idea, but.....

 

 

During the GO, there is no Brighton service to Manhattan. The idea is to transfer at Franklin Avenue rather than Atlantic.

 

 

Who said anything about morning or evening rush? This is during the overnight GO.

 

Does it matter? Point is it doesn't make sense what Wallyhorse proposed no matter what time it is during the 24 hrs of a day the runs. Atlantic Ave btw is a major hub. I would imagine it would make sense for trains to terminate there and reverse back to Coney Island from that point. I would think the reasons are blatantly obvious.

[bobtehpanda]

This is where what I would do is this for such a situation:

 

Run the and all night to New Lots and Flatbush Avenues respctively to supplement the and to Franklin Avenue, also running a 300' train from the Botanic Garden station to Coney Island on the Prospect Park-bound track while a single shuttle runs Botanic Garden-Franklin Avenue on the other track.  This can be instead of or in addition to the split and encourage people to use the in such a situation where possible.

 

Well, for starters, this is impossible because the Franklin Av line can only accommodate 2 cars...

I was actually surprised to find out that there are no switches anywhere near Atlantic on the B/Q...

[RtrainBlues]

Use a timetable to see whether the D or Q from Manhattan will get you to Atlantic in enough time to catch the Q shuttle.  Leave at least 5-10 minutes extra leeway for a delay.  Avoid the 2, 4 or N since they're local all the way all night long.  Ironically, whenever the D is split service at West 4th, it runs much more reliably to Brooklyn since it doesn't have delays coming from the Bronx (such as a recent time I saw a garbage train at Yankee Stadium for almost 20 minutes delaying D service.)

[Wallyhorse]

Well, for starters, this is impossible because the Franklin Av line can only accommodate 2 cars...

I was actually surprised to find out that there are no switches anywhere near Atlantic on the B/Q...

Botanic Garden I believe can handle 300' trains, as shown in pictures at: http://nycsubway.org/perl/showpix?bnN0YSBpbiAoMjEzMTA0LDIxMzEwNSwyMTMxMDYsMjEzMTEwLDIxMzExNSwyMTMxMTcsMjEzMTIwLDIxMzEyNSwyMTMxMzAsMjEzMTM1KXwwfDV8NTB8U2hvd2luZ3wvd2lraS9TdGF0aW9uOl9Cb3RhbmljX0dhcmRlbl8oRnJhbmtsaW5fU2h1dHRsZSl8bnllYXIgZGVzYyxubW9uIGRlc2MsbmRheSBkZXNj

 

It's the stations north of there that can't.

[Eric B]

The stations are all 170 feet. Botanic Gardens still has the empty space south of the station, where the old platforms extended, where you could build a temporary platform (though on the northbound side, they built a concrete room in the way of it).

So you could get at least 480 feet out of that, and then there's an overpass where toe ROW narrows, so you might get the full 600ft, though the end would be narrow.

 

I'm the one who first came up with this Botanic Gardens idea, but that was only for full Manhattan Bridge closures, not for a G.O. They messed up by insisting on the shorter than 300ft length, so now it's virtually unusable as is, for mainline reroutes.

[Wallyhorse]

The stations are all 170 feet. Botanic Gardens still has the empty space south of the station, where the old platforms extended, where you could build a temporary platform (though on the northbound side, they built a concrete room in the way of it).

So you could get at least 480 feet out of that, and then there's an overpass where toe ROW narrows, so you might get the full 600ft, though the end would be narrow.

 

I'm the one who first came up with this Botanic Gardens idea, but that was only for full Manhattan Bridge closures, not for a G.O. They messed up by insisting on the shorter than 300ft length, so now it's virtually unusable as is, for mainline reroutes.

 

I would be using the southbound (Prospect Park-bound) side of Botanic Garden anyway for this.  That's the side where they should extend the platform ideally to AT LEAST 300' (and if possible, 600') so in an emegency, if they need to splt the and can't use the tunnel between Prospect Park and DeKalb, they can have the run a short route between Botanic Garden (where it can connect with the ) and Coney Island.  It's also the only way to get to the Coney Island-bound track at Prospect Park anyway, so it would make sense to do that while in such a situation, the regular Franklin shuttle is shortened to between Botanic Garden and Franklin Avenue.