Beggars and annoyances on the subway

[SubwayGuy]

What about your fellow transit worker who ended up homeless because of Hurricane Sandy whose story which was well publicized in the Daily News? Sleeping in the locker rooms? Seems he was a hard worker, he doesn't fit the description of a drug addict of a scammer. I'm going to assume your sympathies end there with him too huh?

 

Was he begging customers for money? Was he harrassing passengers? Was he inconveniencing rush hour commuters by disrupting their commute by putting his bags and crap on trains? Was he blocking major points of entry and exit in crowded transfer stations? Was he expecting everyone else to help pay his bills?

 

No, in fact, while he used crew rooms to sleep, he also used emergency facilities specifically set up for Sandy Victims so that he could get back on his feet. Meanwhile he kept going back to work and EARNING MONEY so that he could rebuild his life instead of demanding a handout from strangers who he'd done nothing for, and harrassing them if they didn't give him money.

 

Second, using crew rooms to sleep is not an inconvenience to the general public. In fact, during emergencies such as Hurricane Sandy, employees who cannot go home because there is no service are EXPECTED to remain at work, the no sleep rules are suspended, and they are given 8 hours rest to "sleep" in the crew room so that they can be ready to work another up to 16 hour tour after getting rest.

 

There is an ENORMOUS difference between what that man did - which is honorable - using the systems set up for that purpose, basically bothering no one, and continuing to go to work and EARN his way out of his dilemma until FEMA money could be applied for later, and what many of the homeless in the subway do, which is make excuses for their dilemma, or refuse to fight their demons or addiction, and demand that complete strangers give them ownership of a public place for their crap, or give them money when they have done absolutely NOTHING to earn it of their own.

[realizm]

Was he begging customers for money? Was he harrassing passengers? Was he inconveniencing rush hour commuters by disrupting their commute by putting his bags and crap on trains? Was he blocking major points of entry and exit in crowded transfer stations? Was he expecting everyone else to help pay his bills?

 

No, in fact, while he used crew rooms to sleep, he also used emergency facilities specifically set up for Sandy Victims so that he could get back on his feet. Meanwhile he kept going back to work and EARNING MONEY so that he could rebuild his life instead of demanding a handout from strangers who he'd done nothing for, and harrassing them if they didn't give him money.

 

Second, using crew rooms to sleep is not an inconvenience to the general public. In fact, during emergencies such as Hurricane Sandy, employees who cannot go home because there is no service are EXPECTED to remain at work, the no sleep rules are suspended, and they are given 8 hours rest to "sleep" in the crew room so that they can be ready to work another up to 16 hour tour after getting rest.

 

Understood on all points in this part of your response. I actually volunteered at one of the evacuation shelters set up at Lehman College doing overnight shifts in the wake of Hurricane Sandy while my IT consulting firm's client's main administrative offices were under water. 

 

There is an ENORMOUS difference between what that man did - which is honorable - using the systems set up for that purpose, basically bothering no one, and continuing to go to work and EARN his way out of his dilemma until FEMA money could be applied for later, and what many of the homeless in the subway do, which is make excuses for their dilemma, or refuse to fight their demons or addiction, and demand that complete strangers give them ownership of a public place for their crap, or give them money when they have done absolutely NOTHING to earn it of their own.

 

Here's the problem. Many people are unsympathetic towards the homeless, or hold common misconceptions of the homeless that's my gripe. I can tell you why:

 

1) These beggars who you see during your shifts are not actually the majority of those who are homeless. Really only a very small percentage of homeless people are involved in panhandling, nationwide. However that small percentage of those who homeless would be the ones who concentrate themselves on the subway begging for change, are doing so in a very well traveled system, thereby feeding into the misconception that ALL people who are homeless are panhandling for change, dishonest and smoking crack etc etc. That is simply not 100% true.

 

2) Many people are simply perplexed and feel helpless to handle the problem concerning persons afflicted with serious cases of mental illness. Understandably. As I've mentioned in the previous posts and you later on, also MVH as well, mentioned, we can both see that the meltdown of the mental institutions in the 70's displaced many of the population of those who are mentally ill. Now they have nowhere to go. That's another reason why you see what you see every day as you report for duty on a given run. As you well know already. I am just restating this point for the record.

 

Here's the big one:

 

3) Perspective, perspective, perspective.  Prevalent Attitudes. Many people are fearless of becoming homeless themselves in a troubled economy. So they misdirect their anger on those who are already homeless.

 

People are beset today by extreme difficulties caused by the shit state of this economy and that the lack of jobs and affordable housing causes homelessness in a broken bureaucratic system.

 

People who openly express anger and even hostility towards the homeless actually are doing so out of the fear of going homeless themselves. So they psychologically put up a mental wall. They realize that to the effect that If they accept the fact that that illness, age, or disability causes homelessness then they will become crippled with disconcernment, frustration and fear. So by psychologically sticking to the belief that only people who are bad or evil or animalistic can become homeless, they can emotionally insulate themselves from any fear of becoming homeless.

 

Such unsympathetic people are weak. Weak at heart. I think that is where I am trying to get at here.

 

And of course SubwayGuy, do not take me personally, I am not trying to challenge your character, however, I will not lie to myself over the social ills brought about by a broken system, and the misconceptions  and apathy that comes as a result.

[MHV9218]

Meanwhile he kept going back to work and EARNING MONEY so that he could rebuild his life instead of demanding a handout from strangers who he'd done nothing for

 

Oh, bullsh!t. To dismiss getting a job that flippantly is just ignorant. I agree with you on most points, but you sound like one of those Tea Party a**holes with this "demanding a handout" nonsense. Begging is the lowest form of human interaction. Nobody wants to go out and beg, so stop acting like they choose to. The vast majority of homeless people have no job because (pick how many of these apply) 1) the education system is sh!t and the weren't trained, 1b) they had to drop out of school to provide for their family, 2) the economy is still getting on its legs and the job market is a mess, 3) they have outstanding mental problems that haven't been treated because the city turns its back on the mentally ill. There are probably one in a thousand homeless who make a conscious choice not to work, but the Daily News gives them a whole page every time and people start to think that about all the homeless. Point is, it's an ignorant assumption that it's just so easy to go back to work and earn money. Just not that simple. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Understood on all points in this part of your response. I actually volunteered at one of the evacuation shelters set up at Lehman College doing overnight shifts in the wake of Hurricane Sandy while my IT consulting firm's client's main administrative offices were under water. 

 

 

Here's the problem. Many people are unsympathetic towards the homeless, or hold common misconceptions of the homeless that's my gripe. I can tell you why:

 

1) These beggars who you see during your shifts are not actually the majority of those who are homeless. Really only a very small percentage of homeless people are involved in panhandling, nationwide. However that small percentage of those who homeless would be the ones who concentrate themselves on the subway begging for change, are doing so in a very well traveled system, thereby feeding into the misconception that ALL people who are homeless are panhandling for change, dishonest and smoking crack etc etc. That is simply not 100% true.

 

2) Many people are simply perplexed and feel helpless to handle the problem concerning persons afflicted with serious cases of mental illness. Understandably. As I've mentioned in the previous posts and you later on, also MVH as well, mentioned, we can both see that the meltdown of the mental institutions in the 70's displaced many of the population of those who are mentally ill. Now they have nowhere to go. That's another reason why you see what you see every day as you report for duty on a given run. As you well know already. I am just restating this point for the record.

 

Here's the big one:

 

3) Perspective, perspective, perspective.  Prevalent Attitudes. Many people are fearless of becoming homeless themselves in a troubled economy. So they misdirect their anger on those who are already homeless.

 

People are beset today by extreme difficulties caused by the shit state of this economy and that the lack of jobs and affordable housing causes homelessness in a broken bureaucratic system.

 

People who openly express anger and even hostility towards the homeless actually are doing so out of the fear of going homeless themselves. So they psychologically put up a mental wall. They realize that to the effect that If they accept the fact that that illness, age, or disability causes homelessness then they will become crippled with disconcernment, frustration and fear. So by psychologically sticking to the belief that only people who are bad or evil or animalistic can become homeless, they can emotionally insulate themselves from any fear of becoming homeless.

 

Such unsympathetic people are weak. Weak at heart. I think that is where I am trying to get at here.

 

And of course SubwayGuy, do not take me personally, I am not trying to challenge your character, however, I will not lie to myself over the social ills brought about by a broken system, and the misconceptions  and apathy that comes as a result.

 

 

Oh, bullsh!t. To dismiss getting a job that flippantly is just ignorant. I agree with you on most points, but you sound like one of those Tea Party a**holes with this "demanding a handout" nonsense. Begging is the lowest form of human interaction. Nobody wants to go out and beg, so stop acting like they choose to. The vast majority of homeless people have no job because (pick how many of these apply) 1) the education system is sh!t and the weren't trained, 1b) they had to drop out of school to provide for their family, 2) the economy is still getting on its legs and the job market is a mess, 3) they have outstanding mental problems that haven't been treated because the city turns its back on the mentally ill. There are probably one in a thousand homeless who make a conscious choice not to work, but the Daily News gives them a whole page every time and people start to think that about all the homeless. Point is, it's an ignorant assumption that it's just so easy to go back to work and earn money. Just not that simple. 

I actually agree with SubwayGuy.  Having worked late nights (graveyard shift) for a few months while preparing to move to Europe to continue my studies I can assure you that you see all sorts of things and all sorts of people scamming.  You do have people that are legitimately homeless, but I personally feel as if there are so many scammers out here that those who are truly homeless unfortunately get overlooked.  I don't think people have become desensitized at all to other peoples' struggles.  I know I certainly haven't and have gone and bought food for people who were truly homeless.  

 

What people get sick of are the scammers taking our compassion and kindness as a weakness.  There was a white guy who would hang out all of the time near to where I worked at in Williamsburg.  I'd chase him away if he came near where I was or bothered customers and we had a nasty situation because I was hell bent on stopping him from panhandling and harassing customers, esp. since I personally hate it when it is done to me.  

 

I eventually learned that he was not at all homeless and just walked around playing the role... Looking filthy and acting as if he was a real nut job which allowed him to maintain his lifestyle of collecting his "disability" check AND making a few bucks on the side off of people's sympathy.    There's nothing that irks me more than some jerk that comes along and thinks he's going to get over because he's got everyone fooled.

 

As the economy worsens, these beggars just seem to be coming out of the woodwork.  I was shocked yesterday that while on the and train in the city I didn't see any panhandlers doing their rounds.  Guess they decided to take the weekend off... That leads to a question... 

 

Which lines are the most notorious for panhandlers?  It seems the doesn't have any from my personal experiences.  The seems to the preacher's train and the lines are the "Can you spare some change for the homeless?" lines and "We have free sandwiches for the homeless." After a while it becomes monotonous.  I've even been on the Lex. line and have seen beggars just look at me and pass by because they can feel that I know that they're full of BS a mile away with their little scheme.  

 

Last night I was trying to refill a MetroCard at Columbus Circle and just I was thinking I was free of beggars, here is this young black kid hanging out by the vending machine heckling everyone trying to get a MetroCard.  So before he can even start with me I wave him off as if to say not in the mood for the BS because I get real hostile when I'm trying to conduct business and I got someone nearby annoying me.  There was a white lady in front of me with a kid which the young black guy kept yacking with and asking stupid questions.  I eventually became annoyed not so much with her but with his incessant yacking and heckling if you will because the lady was trying to keep an eye on the kid, get a MetroCard and keep an eye on him, even though in the end he seemed harmless from a robbing point of view, but the fact that he wouldn't shut up was just as bad.

 

Once I realized that the kid was dense and did not take well to the hints that I was giving him, I said f*ck it. Let me get the hell out of here and went to another part of the station where there were more machines because he was really getting on my last nerve, talking about how he put money in the machine but couldn't get a MetroCard, so I knew the next thing he was going to do was ask if I could give him a ride or some BS because he didn't have money, which I was not up for hearing after my phone had died and I had already missed one express bus, which meant a long wait when I just wanted to get home to begin with.

[B35 via Church]

....You do have people that are legitimately homeless, but I personally feel as if there are so many scammers out here that those who are truly homeless unfortunately get overlooked.

What people get sick of are the scammers taking our compassion and kindness as a weakness.

Yeah, I agree with him to an extent also....

 

Anyway, these two snippets of yours is exactly my stance on this whole thing.... There was a point & time where I thought the majority of beggars on the subway were homeless (of course, this is like 20+ years ago)..... Now I truly think the vast majority of beggars are god damn scam artists - which does f*** things up for the homeless on the subway....

 

As far as the (obtaining) money by panhandling on the subway aspect.... To analogize, it's like having a row of a specific type of store all on the same side of the street on the same damn block or something.... The so-called "market" (or w/e you wanna call it), is being bled dry by scammers.... You, the person that's lending a helping hand so to speak - I mean, who the hell likes the feeling of having gotten/getting scammed (compare that to the feeling you have when you give something to some homeless person).... I mean, None of this is blatantly saying screw the homeless......

 

An attack on the "Beggars & annoyances on the subway" isn't a direct attack on the homeless....

In other words, me being unsympathetic in outright refusing to give a dollar or w/e to some beggar on the subway isn't me saying f*** the homeless....

 

That's just the way I see it.... Others can do so how they choose.

[realizm]

Yeah, I agree with him to an extent also....

 

An attack on the "Beggars & annoyances on the subway" isn't a direct attack on the homeless....

In other words, me being unsympathetic in outright refusing to give a dollar or w/e to some beggar on the subway isn't me saying f*** the homeless....

 

That's just the way I see it.... Others can do so how they choose.

I'm cool with that. Because I have problems of my own. I have bills to pay and besides that, I had to pay my mother's rent because she was in big trouble. I gave it to her on Friday. That's why i can totally agree with VG8 as well if I read his post correctly. Just because we are well dressed and have a ride does not mean we have it made, we got major problems too financially.

 

I can give a beggar food, don't mind. Maybe change. But rarely. I know when some so called peddlers are putting up an act. Go to a drug rehab program instead. Then their needs will be provided. Food, shelter (actually rooms which aint bad it's not bunk beds in an auditorium, clean decent bldgs with proper maintenance), legal and government assistance and health care, even dental. But as far as the drug addicts are concerned many don't want to do it because well, they don't want to put that pipe or needle down.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, I agree with him to an extent also....

 

Anyway, these two snippets of yours is exactly my stance on this whole thing.... There was a point & time where I thought the majority of beggars on the subway were homeless (of course, this is like 20+ years ago)..... Now I truly think the vast majority of beggars are god damn scam artists - which does f*** things up for the homeless on the subway....

 

As far as the (obtaining) money by panhandling on the subway aspect.... To analogize, it's like having a row of a specific type of store all on the same side of the street on the same damn block or something.... The so-called "market" (or w/e you wanna call it), is being bled dry by scammers.... You, the person that's lending a helping hand so to speak - I mean, who the hell likes the feeling of having gotten/getting scammed (compare that to the feeling you have when you give something to some homeless person).... I mean, None of this is blatantly saying screw the homeless......

 

An attack on the "Beggars & annoyances on the subway" isn't a direct attack on the homeless....

In other words, me being unsympathetic in outright refusing to give a dollar or w/e to some beggar on the subway isn't me saying f*** the homeless....

 

That's just the way I see it.... Others can do so how they choose.

I agree... There are programs out here for folks that are truly in need.  They may not like them but they do exist and we do contribute to them via taxes...

[SubwayGuy]

Understood on all points in this part of your response. I actually volunteered at one of the evacuation shelters set up at Lehman College doing overnight shifts in the wake of Hurricane Sandy while my IT consulting firm's client's main administrative offices were under water. 

 

 

Here's the problem. Many people are unsympathetic towards the homeless, or hold common misconceptions of the homeless that's my gripe. I can tell you why:

 

1) These beggars who you see during your shifts are not actually the majority of those who are homeless. Really only a very small percentage of homeless people are involved in panhandling, nationwide. However that small percentage of those who homeless would be the ones who concentrate themselves on the subway begging for change, are doing so in a very well traveled system, thereby feeding into the misconception that ALL people who are homeless are panhandling for change, dishonest and smoking crack etc etc. That is simply not 100% true.

 

2) Many people are simply perplexed and feel helpless to handle the problem concerning persons afflicted with serious cases of mental illness. Understandably. As I've mentioned in the previous posts and you later on, also MVH as well, mentioned, we can both see that the meltdown of the mental institutions in the 70's displaced many of the population of those who are mentally ill. Now they have nowhere to go. That's another reason why you see what you see every day as you report for duty on a given run. As you well know already. I am just restating this point for the record.

 

Here's the big one:

 

3) Perspective, perspective, perspective.  Prevalent Attitudes. Many people are fearless of becoming homeless themselves in a troubled economy. So they misdirect their anger on those who are already homeless.

 

People are beset today by extreme difficulties caused by the shit state of this economy and that the lack of jobs and affordable housing causes homelessness in a broken bureaucratic system.

 

People who openly express anger and even hostility towards the homeless actually are doing so out of the fear of going homeless themselves. So they psychologically put up a mental wall. They realize that to the effect that If they accept the fact that that illness, age, or disability causes homelessness then they will become crippled with disconcernment, frustration and fear. So by psychologically sticking to the belief that only people who are bad or evil or animalistic can become homeless, they can emotionally insulate themselves from any fear of becoming homeless.

 

Such unsympathetic people are weak. Weak at heart. I think that is where I am trying to get at here.

 

And of course SubwayGuy, do not take me personally, I am not trying to challenge your character, however, I will not lie to myself over the social ills brought about by a broken system, and the misconceptions  and apathy that comes as a result.

 

And those are all issues that have to do with homelessness in general, not beggars in the subway and homeless living in the subway...both of which are rules violations.

 

There are homeless living in the stations who legitimately don't really bother anyone. I don't really worry about them. The ones that everyone complains about are the ones who harass people for money, refuse to get off of layups and delay service because they're "sleeping", spread their s*** all over the system, outstretch on benches and trains, interfere with doors and delay trains while they move their crap onto and off the train, etc.

 

The mental health treatment options are wholly inadequate, I agree. The mentally ill should not be living "normally" in society without treatment. But that's not the issue at hands. The people, homeless or not, who are loitering in the subway and/or panhandling are RULES VIOLATORS that need to be ejected from the system by the NYPD, since MTA employees do not have the authority to do that.

 

Oh, bullsh!t. To dismiss getting a job that flippantly is just ignorant. I agree with you on most points, but you sound like one of those Tea Party a**holes with this "demanding a handout" nonsense. Begging is the lowest form of human interaction. Nobody wants to go out and beg, so stop acting like they choose to. The vast majority of homeless people have no job because (pick how many of these apply) 1) the education system is sh!t and the weren't trained, 1b) they had to drop out of school to provide for their family, 2) the economy is still getting on its legs and the job market is a mess, 3) they have outstanding mental problems that haven't been treated because the city turns its back on the mentally ill. There are probably one in a thousand homeless who make a conscious choice not to work, but the Daily News gives them a whole page every time and people start to think that about all the homeless. Point is, it's an ignorant assumption that it's just so easy to go back to work and earn money. Just not that simple. 

 

Begging is demanding a handout. I've seen these clowns screaming and cursing at subway cars full of strangers, with kids present, because no one gave them any money.

 

YOU may not want to go out and beg, but there are plenty of people in this city who are NOT homeless (like the guy that cop gave his shoes to recently, who was "homeless" but photographed coming out of his apartment), who DO go out and beg.

 

Stop making excuses for people:

 

#1 - The education system being shit does not preclude someone from getting a job. Legal Immigrants to this country have come over for 200 years without being able to speak a damn word of English or having gotten a proper eduation, yet somehow got jobs here and built a life for themselves and their families.

 

#2 - "Dropping out of school to provide for their families" means they dropped out to work. That means they are working, and have a job. So they should not be homeless. Your logic does not make sense with this one.

 

#3 - "Outstanding mental illness problems"...and letting them harass people on the subway and stay perpetually homeless and poor since they will never accomplish anything as long as they are mentally ill, is a better fix than forcibly institutionalizing them in the shelter system on penalty of arrest, which is the course that is supposed to be taken? "Shelter or Arrest" is a choice that either way, results in a roof over the person's head at comfortable temperature, and a guaranteed meal. At least in the shelter system they can't harass people, or be prone to violence. How many times have police sought a "homeless man" over a subway assault, battery, or robbery? That can all be prevented by keeping them out of the system in the first place if all they are going to do is loiter or panhandle.

 

Winners in life don't make excuses. They go out and they do something. The homeless that are actually working to get out of their circumstances you don't see, or probably don't even realize they are homeless. Because they stay with friends, or pay for the odd hotel room here and there so they can take a shower and not smell bad, and then they go out and look for work during the day. Then at the end of the day, if they have nowhere to stay, they go somewhere (usually not the subway) and get ready to try to be productive the next day.

 

They don't "work the trains" all day begging.

 

In fact the homeless on the subway, as anyone in NYPD Homeless Outreach or the MTA's branch of same, are an extremely fringe population of the homeless in general that is VERY antisocial/marginalized. They ARE the extreme cases, which is why public sanitation and and safety come first over their "needs" to take over areas of the system or beg for money.

 

And the Daily News gave the Transit Worker a full page article because he WAS working, not because he was a lazy slob who decided it was easier to just let other people pay his bills. Because he went out and kept working during a difficult time.

[46Dover]

Speaking of mental illnessesI don't know if you remember the incident with the schizophrenic (spelling) that stabbed a straphanger with a screw driver in Utica Ave some time ago maybe a couple years back, or the one that attacked the police officer in Jamaica and nearly left him blind, situations like this is what brings mental issues as stated by others in this thread very important in terms of safety of those around the afflicted person especially if they're not on Meds. In which case maybe I should take a baseball bat with me next time I use the subway.....

[realizm]

And those are all issues that have to do with homelessness in general, not beggars in the subway and homeless living in the subway...both of which are rules violations.

 

There are homeless living in the stations who legitimately don't really bother anyone. I don't really worry about them. The ones that everyone complains about are the ones who harass people for money, refuse to get off of layups and delay service because they're "sleeping", spread their s*** all over the system, outstretch on benches and trains, interfere with doors and delay trains while they move their crap onto and off the train, etc.

 

 

The mental health treatment options are wholly inadequate, I agree. The mentally ill should not be living "normally" in society without treatment. But that's not the issue at hands. The people, homeless or not, who are loitering in the subway and/or panhandling are RULES VIOLATORS that need to be ejected from the system by the NYPD, since MTA employees do not have the authority to do that.

 

And as I was saying the beggars who frequent the subways by a far margin do not make up the majority of the subways, it just seems so because they are all concentrated in the transit network. And because of these ones it puts a bad light on those who are homeless but are not drug addicts or animals but are actually people like you and I, who does not want to be homeless and struggling to get out.

 

However there is what is coined by sociologists and economists called the cycle of poverty. Sometimes because of the failures of a bureaucratic system  To make a long story short, it makes it almost impossible for people who are in poverty to break out of this. This is a worldwide problem as I was saying.

 

As for the third paragraph, indeed loitering in the subway or in the cars I imagine is a violation of the rules. Now that you mention it this is another problem -- those who are mentally ill, as they have no way of adequate care and facilities available so that they can be treated, also not end up hitting the streets but also are thrown in the penal system because again currently the government does not know what to do with them since the closings of mental institutions  There's a documentary somewhere, I'll have to find it, but in the documentary there were PO's and CO's (correction officers) that admitted to this as a failure on the part of the US healthcare system.

 

The situation sucks all around. 

 

To add:

 

#1 - The education system being shit does not preclude someone from getting a job. Legal Immigrants to this country have come over for 200 years without being able to speak a damn word of English or having gotten a proper eduation, yet somehow got jobs here and built a life for themselves and their families.

   

Again the concept of the cycle of poverty. In many families they cannot afford to provide their children with adequate eduction. This in turn results in their children ending up in low wage jobs. This in turn creates problems with the families that then bear second generation children who are also trapped in low wage paying jobs. The majority of American born and immigrant born children alike. Again a vicious cycle. This is not an excuse. I can provide solid sociological documentation from expert panel studies if you like. Let me know.

 

   

Winners in life don't make excuses. They go out and they do something. The homeless that are actually working to get out of their circumstances you don't see, or probably don't even realize they are homeless.

      

That's my attitude as well. This I agree with. It's called biting the bullet as a mindset. Not everyone has that type of inner strength. I can personally attest to this with the fiery trials I've been through.

[realizm]

* Correction: 

 

"Now that you mention it this is another problem -- those who are mentally ill, as they have no way of adequate care and facilities available so that they can be treated, also not just end up hitting the streets but also are thrown in the penal system because again currently the government does not know what to do with them since the closings of mental institutions....."

[46Dover]

Kind of like the Guy from North Carolina who got arrested like more than 30 times because he took subway trains and kept trespassing (don't know of he's homeless, but goes to show the danger of mentally ill people in Subway)?

[LRG]

What's even more saddening/worse is the homeless/begging epidemic starting at a young age as well. There are kids who are either used by their parents in order to have people cough money over for them in the effort to make people feel sorry for the kids more than the adult, so they'll give the money to the adult to support the kids, when in reality these people are probably exhausting government welfare and are using the money they received from people for god knows what. Then there are kids begging for money for themselves for whatever reason, but probably because they were sent to the streets by their parents to get money from people if they want to eat, otherwise they wouldn't eat at all for the day. Not to mention the kids who sell candy to "keep out of trouble", which is long played out.

 

I work at an H&R Block every tax season doing front desk work and there would be this Hispanic kid who would constantly come into the office and asking the workers for money. He would even go as far as asking clients waiting to be seen by tax pros for money as well, and I had to tell him to leave the office, and told him he's not allowed unless he's with an adult. For a while he disappeared, but a week or two ago he popped up again asking for money and I had to threaten calling the cops on him if he didn't leave. He never showed up again. I understand that even kids find themselves in an unfortunate situation, but like everyone else here said, you don't go and create a disturbance to the public because you want something. The only thing I say to myself is where are the parents? Sometimes the parents aren't there because the kid doesn't really have parents who are doing their jobs as caretakers for their children. Just because a man and a woman have the ability to procreate doesn't necessarily give them the title "parent".

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What's even more saddening/worse is the homeless/begging epidemic starting at a young age as well. There are kids who are either used by their parents in order to have people cough money over for them in the effort to make people feel sorry for the kids more than the adult, so they'll give the money to the adult to support the kids, when in reality these people are probably exhausting government welfare and are using the money they received from people for god knows what. Then there are kids begging for money for themselves for whatever reason, but probably because they were sent to the streets by their parents to get money from people if they want to eat, otherwise they wouldn't eat at all for the day. Not to mention the kids who sell candy to "keep out of trouble", which is long played out.

 

I work at an H&R Block every tax season doing front desk work and there would be this Hispanic kid who would constantly come into the office and asking the workers for money. He would even go as far as asking clients waiting to be seen by tax pros for money as well, and I had to tell him to leave the office, and told him he's not allowed unless he's with an adult. For a while he disappeared, but a week or two ago he popped up again asking for money and I had to threaten calling the cops on him if he didn't leave. He never showed up again. I understand that even kids find themselves in an unfortunate situation, but like everyone else here said, you don't go and create a disturbance to the public because you want something. The only thing I say to myself is where are the parents? Sometimes the parents aren't there because the kid doesn't really have parents who are doing their jobs as caretakers for their children. Just because a man and a woman have the ability to procreate doesn't necessarily give them the title "parent".

lol... You'd be surprised... When I lived in Italy, we had the "Roma" (aka Gypsies) roaming the trains begging for money or looking to pickpocket you, so it was important that you keep alert at all times and not drift off because they are true pros at pick pocketing.  The male of the househould would usually send the kids and the female out to beg and if they come home empty handed well you can imagine what happens because that was their "job"... 

 

As for these kids running about begging, I wouldn't be surprised if the parents have them out there hustling at a young age. Some parents really don't care and some kids are trained at an early age that begging is perfectly fine because there are "suckers" out there that will cough up the dough.  What annoys me is that these people have such balls and audacity to just walk up to perfect strangers and beg them.  No sense of pride or dignity or anything and that's what really irks me the most. It's like hey I work damn hard for my money and you think you can just walk up to people and ask them to give you their hard earned money?  To me it's about morality and clearly some of these people don't have any nor do they have a clue about going out and working to earn money.  

 

Now you do have people that are really poor but you also have people that are just out here trying to even the score so to speak. It's like hey that guy has the money so why shouldn't I just walk up to him and ask for it as if I'm not entitled to keep what I've worked hard to get. That's how I feel when these folks see me and automatically approach me like I'm a walking ATM.

 

My best memory of dealing well with a panhandler was when I was going to the Garden State Plaza to do some shopping.  I'm in the Port Authority to get my ticket for the 163 Express Bus and this older black guy immediately starts with his line as I finish up from getting my tickets.  However, I already knew what he was up to so I was quick and was ready for him, so here he goes with his line:

 

"Excuse me Sir, I know I don't know you but..." and before he could finish I said "...Yeah that's exactly why you shouldn't talk to strangers"....   

 

He couldn't do anything with that come back and that pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks and I calmly walked off and went on my way for the express bus.

[AndrewJC]

Preaching is protected free speech, as a public agency the MTA can't do anything about that.

 

Bingo!

 

I can't the preachers either, but if the MTA or NYPD tried to chase preachers away, they'd quickly find themselves losing a First Amendment lawsuit.

 

 

Causing shit on the trains like those breakdancers do is another story... the MTA should really consider doing something about those guys. Perform safely on the platform, but not on my train thank you!

 

Isn't this an NYPD issue? There isn't much the MTA can do without police support.

[Minato ku]

But the problem is not so much that they are preaching but that they are loud.

MTA or NYPD cannot do something about it ? Not about what they are saying but about the volume.

[LRG]

lol... You'd be surprised... When I lived in Italy, we had the "Roma" (aka Gypsies) roaming the trains begging for money or looking to pickpocket you, so it was important that you keep alert at all times and not drift off because they are true pros at pick pocketing.  The male of the househould would usually send the kids and the female out to beg and if they come home empty handed well you can imagine what happens because that was their "job"... 

 

As for these kids running about begging, I wouldn't be surprised if the parents have them out there hustling at a young age. Some parents really don't care and some kids are trained at an early age that begging is perfectly fine because there are "suckers" out there that will cough up the dough.  What annoys me is that these people have such balls and audacity to just walk up to perfect strangers and beg them.  No sense of pride or dignity or anything and that's what really irks me the most. It's like hey I work damn hard for my money and you think you can just walk up to people and ask them to give you their hard earned money?  To me it's about morality and clearly some of these people don't have any nor do they have a clue about going out and working to earn money.  

 

Now you do have people that are really poor but you also have people that are just out here trying to even the score so to speak. It's like hey that guy has the money so why shouldn't I just walk up to him and ask for it as if I'm not entitled to keep what I've worked hard to get. That's how I feel when these folks see me and automatically approach me like I'm a walking ATM.

 

My best memory of dealing well with a panhandler was when I was going to the Garden State Plaza to do some shopping.  I'm in the Port Authority to get my ticket for the 163 Express Bus and this older black guy immediately starts with his line as I finish up from getting my tickets.  However, I already knew what he was up to so I was quick and was ready for him, so here he goes with his line:

 

"Excuse me Sir, I know I don't know you but..." and before he could finish I said "...Yeah that's exactly why you shouldn't talk to strangers"....   

 

He couldn't do anything with that come back and that pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks and I calmly walked off and went on my way for the express bus.

LMAO! Love the response you gave to him. Sometimes that's how you have to be with people like that.

 

I am really liking the stories that we're sharing with each other with our encounters with people like this, which brings me to this next one....

 

I recall one time I was with two of my friends at a Mobil gas station in Park Slope before he dropped us home. We were standing outside for a bit talking about random stuff when some guy approaches all of us. He shares this sob story with us, I forgot what it was...all I remember was my one of my friends giving him $9, the the other gave him $6 and I gave him $3. I guess I felt inclined to give the guy something because my friends were with meant they did it first, otherwise I wouldn't have given him anything at all. So I don't know...I am usually oblivious to beggars, I'll pretend that they don't exist. Hell today I walked past one asking for change and didn't even acknowledge them.

[SubwayGuy]

But this isn't a question about failings of society, etc.. or homelessness in general. That's not a discussion for the subway thread, that belongs somewhere else. Maybe the charity thread, I don't know, and I don't care because that's not the topic at hand.

 

This concerns the extremely antisocial subset of the homeless population that resides in the subway as well as the scheisters panhandling for money on the train.

 

Both of whom are violating MTA RULES. And both of whom should be ticketed and ejected from the property when they are caught doing so, rather than just "ignored".

 

Just because society is messed up does NOT make it OK to make ordinary people who are just trying to get around the city suffer.

 

Fixing society is not a problem of the MTA, nor something they have any power to do. Cleaning up the system, is.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LMAO! Love the response you gave to him. Sometimes that's how you have to be with people like that.

 

I am really liking the stories that we're sharing with each other with our encounters with people like this, which brings me to this next one....

 

I recall one time I was with two of my friends at a Mobil gas station in Park Slope before he dropped us home. We were standing outside for a bit talking about random stuff when some guy approaches all of us. He shares this sob story with us, I forgot what it was...all I remember was my one of my friends giving him $9, the the other gave him $6 and I gave him $3. I guess I felt inclined to give the guy something because my friends were with meant they did it first, otherwise I wouldn't have given him anything at all. So I don't know...I am usually oblivious to beggars, I'll pretend that they don't exist. Hell today I walked past one asking for change and didn't even acknowledge them.

I am actually more inclined to give money to those that don't approach me because then it's like I have the "option" to walk by and not give or I can give if I want but either way I'm not heckled, nor am I pressured. There was a guy on 5th Avenue around 39th street that would literally curse at people if they walked by and ignored him or refused to give him money. Smh Started up some real nasty back and forth that's certainly rated 13. lol

 

You see you can't be totally oblivious to them because then you have to worry about them sneaking up on you and I do not like "surprises". The other night I was walking to the BxM2 and this Latino guy sees me with a Whole Foods bag.  I made eye contact with him because you can't make yourself a target late at night and I'm especially sensitive to the scam artists when taking the subway or bus late or out in general.  I had a feeling that making eye contact with him would engage him to approach me to start begging but I had an answer for that and that was not to respond to his trying to engage me and #2 giving him a look as if to say don't even think about it.   I then continued on about my way at a normal speed and he got the message to move on.

[Joel Up Front]

Look, VG8 is bragging  about how he "never sees this in Riverdale" or on his glorified shuttle express buses again.  Must be a day that ends in "y."

[bobtehpanda]

Bingo!

 

I can't the preachers either, but if the MTA or NYPD tried to chase preachers away, they'd quickly find themselves losing a First Amendment lawsuit.

 

 

Isn't this an NYPD issue? There isn't much the MTA can do without police support.

 

It may not be legal to eject them from the system because they're preaching, but I've seen some of these people with megaphones, which is almost definitely against the MTA rules.

[AndrewJC]

It may not be legal to eject them from the system because they're preaching, but I've seen some of these people with megaphones, which is almost definitely against the MTA rules.

 

I've encountered lots and lots of preachers on the trains, but I've never seen (or heard) one with a megaphone.

 

Or do you mean in stations? Still probably too close for (First Amendment) comfort for the NYPD to touch them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Look, VG8 is bragging  about how he "never sees this in Riverdale" or on his glorified shuttle express buses again.  Must be a day that ends in "y."

LOL... I doubt that since this is about beggars in the subway... I don't think I've ever seen a beggar on a bus before let alone an express bus, but who knows, maybe you guys have then on "NICE" buses. 

[bobtehpanda]

I've encountered lots and lots of preachers on the trains, but I've never seen (or heard) one with a megaphone.

 

Or do you mean in stations? Still probably too close for (First Amendment) comfort for the NYPD to touch them.

 

There's usually a table of them right by the Times Square PABT passageway and on several occasions they've been using a megaphone.

 

The subway is loud enough, and I don't need any help going deaf in this city....

[B35 via Church]

....I don't think I've ever seen a beggar on a bus before let alone an express bus....

On an express bus, no.... On a local bus, I've seen my fair share of em.....