E train route question

[6 Lexington Ave 236]

So, I was wondering, why the   stops at 75th avenue & Briarwood - Van Wyck during evenings, late nights and weekends. I checked and saw that those stations don't have a very high ridership so I figured the   would be sufficient. If those two stations have 2 services during the aforementioned time periods, why don't local stops such as 46th street, Northern blvd. and Steinway street, which according to the stats have a higher ridership, get two local services, at least during late nights?

Edited April 5, 2013 by 6 Lexington Ave

[Eric B 1,027]

It started because of the layups on the express tracks.

Even so, those stops had the clout to kill local/(F) express service past Continental, so they probably demand the extra service, even if that many are not riding.

[j express 681]

If you look at how many cars the Jamaica Yard have? That's your answer on why they need to use the express tracks for layups.

[+Young+ 579]

If you look at how many cars the Jamaica Yard have? That's your answer on why they need to use the express tracks for layups.

 

In addition to this, at least in my opinion, you also have to take into consideration the amount of people who transfer from bus to subway either at Jamaica Center or 179th Street or 169th Street along Hillside Avenue, which include those commuters from Nassau County on the NICE buses. If you look at the statistics, these are a lot of people, especially those that come from Nassau County who work in Manhattan.

 

Now, the people at 46th Street, Northern Blvd. and Steinway Street, most of these people probably live in Queens and don't use a car to get around, since that is one of the many congested parts of Queens (at least from my observations). Chances are that there commute is much shorter, since they are not traveling as many miles (compared to those from Nassau County). This is another reason why these stations don't get two local services either on late nights or weekends.

 

As far as my memory recalls, shortly after the was introduced, there were 3 local services along Queens Blvd - the , & . However, NYC Transit realized that there were not enough commuters for three local services, that is why the was cut back. Now, if the or the were not invented in the first place, then I could still see the and going to Forest Hills during the week with the terminating at Court Square on the weekends.

 

Speaking of the number of cars that the Jamaica Yard has - this is not the only place in the system that has this problem. I remember a couple of times going out to Ozone Park/Lefferts Blvd on the and I also saw trains laid-up on the express tracks. In addition, a couple of times I remember going up to 207th Street on the and I also saw trains laid-up on the middle tracks as well. Like someone said to me, NYC Transit could use another storage yard. The problem with that is, all of the land in NYC is not only taken up, but worth a lot more $$ now compared to 1915 when the  IND (Independent Subway System - aka the 'B' division) opened its doors to the public.

 

Comments anyone?

[46Dover 532]

Couldn't they send most of the trains to Coney Island Yard?

[ttcsubwayfan 2,060]

but worth a lot more $$ now compared to 1915 when the  IND (Independent Subway System - aka the 'B' division) opened its doors to the public.

 

The IND opened for service in 1932, not 1915.

[+Young+ 579]

Couldn't they send most of the trains to Coney Island Yard?

 

They technically could, however I personally think they do not want to do that. Keep in mind that the Coney Island/Stillwell Avenue station is where 4 lines terminate - the , , and trains. Two of these lines - the and the do not have a yard at their Northern Terminal, therefore therefore any extra trains from the and the have to go to the Coney Island Yard. In addition, the Concourse Yard in the Bronx has most of the trains, which are not used on the weekends, the trains and very few R142 Trains from the 'A' Division. I do, though, see a few trains inside the Coney Island Yard, though.

 

Now as far as the trains from the line is concerned, in addition to the Jamaica Yard, they also lay them up along the express tracks, which I know for sure they do not do along the Astoria line, and I am not 100% certain about the Concourse Line. In addition - they also store some trains at the 179th Street Station as well on the "eight storage tracks" (http://nycsubway.org/wiki/Station:_179th_Street_(Queens_Boulevard_Line). Therefore, this is why, in my opinion, they do not send the trains to Coney Island Yard - especially since the and lines have no other yard, as I stated earlier.

[Threxx 1,833]

The IND opened for service in 1932, not 1915.

 

He probably meant the BMT, which still existed as the BRT before then...

[PATCOman 196]

Some N and Qs are stored at City Hall lower and on the middle track between 30 Avenue and Astoria Blvd.

You can't send more Fs to Coney Island Yard, because there are Fs from Queens that get put into service there.

[bobtehpanda 5,873]

In addition to this, at least in my opinion, you also have to take into consideration the amount of people who transfer from bus to subway either at Jamaica Center or 179th Street or 169th Street along Hillside Avenue, which include those commuters from Nassau County on the NICE buses. If you look at the statistics, these are a lot of people, especially those that come from Nassau County who work in Manhattan.

 

Now, the people at 46th Street, Northern Blvd. and Steinway Street, most of these people probably live in Queens and don't use a car to get around, since that is one of the many congested parts of Queens (at least from my observations). Chances are that there commute is much shorter, since they are not traveling as many miles (compared to those from Nassau County). This is another reason why these stations don't get two local services either on late nights or weekends.

 

As far as my memory recalls, shortly after the was introduced, there were 3 local services along Queens Blvd - the , & . However, NYC Transit realized that there were not enough commuters for three local services, that is why the was cut back. Now, if the or the were not invented in the first place, then I could still see the and going to Forest Hills during the week with the terminating at Court Square on the weekends.

 

Speaking of the number of cars that the Jamaica Yard has - this is not the only place in the system that has this problem. I remember a couple of times going out to Ozone Park/Lefferts Blvd on the and I also saw trains laid-up on the express tracks. In addition, a couple of times I remember going up to 207th Street on the and I also saw trains laid-up on the middle tracks as well. Like someone said to me, NYC Transit could use another storage yard. The problem with that is, all of the land in NYC is not only taken up, but worth a lot more $$ now compared to 1915 when the  IND (Independent Subway System - aka the 'B' division) opened its doors to the public.

 

Comments anyone?

 

Theoretically, you could expand Jamaica Yard and Corona Yard into Corona Park, but there's a state law on the books that says you have to replace every bit of parkland that gets used for something else.

[narig 9]

Just reading some of this I have to ask.    Is NYCTA having trouble finding space to park subway cars when not in use?

 

Also the item about state law requiring replacement of parks land,  does it count if say you build a yard and then cover it over with parkland?

 

Rgds IGN

[AndrewJC 795]

It started because of the layups on the express tracks.

Even so, those stops had the clout to kill local/(F) express service past Continental, so they probably demand the extra service, even if that many are not riding.

 

Actually, I strongly suspect it was a cost-cutting move - it costs a lot less to send the R to Continental than to 179th, even if the F has to make a few extra stops, and serving those additional stops doesn't overload the F. That it provides better service to lots of riders is a side bonus.

[Eric B 1,027]

Maybe, but it's well known that rider complaints are what killed that pattern.

[AndrewJC 795]

Maybe, but it's well known that rider complaints are what killed that pattern.

 

If by "well known" you mean "commonly bandied about among railfans", then I agree.

[bobtehpanda 5,873]

Just reading some of this I have to ask.    Is NYCTA having trouble finding space to park subway cars when not in use?

 

Also the item about state law requiring replacement of parks land,  does it count if say you build a yard and then cover it over with parkland?

 

Rgds IGN

 

I honestly have no idea, in regards to the second one. It probably does, but no one has ever done it before.

 

That being said, usage of that law is almost a bad thing, because the new Yankee stadium destroyed community fields for baseball, and it was replaced by lawn. At least with Corona Park, it's so awfully maintained that most people probably wouldn't miss any land taken for a yard expansion. Corona Yard is much harder to do, however, because it's surrounded by Citi Field parking on all sides, but the MTA has expanded the yard to meet capacity requirements for projected future needs. I'd trust them on this, except they said this about the last time back when the R143s were coming out...