Christine Quinn wants city, not MTA, to control subway and bus systems in the five boroughs

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think a system needs to be set up for the public to have more input for service improvements directly rather than going through the city. And I don;t mean more of those stupid community town hall things. Maybe a petition type system like the white house instituted. 

I agree... We know what our needs are and what our commutes are like so we should have more say in the services we get.

[Grand Concourse]

I think Ms Quinn needs a history lesson.

Nah, just shows how politicians will say any kneejerk 'solutions' to pander for votes.

 

I do agree the city should get a say, but to let the city foot the bill while Albany still taxes us to death? Never gonna work. As bad as it is with the state, I'd rather they control the funding than to let another group of hands to rob.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Christine Quinn is a nutcase. Does she not remember the PBL fiasco? I'll admit the MTA could run some things a little better, but having the city take over our transit system is gonna lead to a transit nightmare just like it has in the past.

 

I hope to God she doesn't win.

[Turbo19]

I can forsee better things for the MTA under Quinn's guidance, however I can't fathom a "change of ownership" like what's being proposed.

[BreeddekalbL]

Christine Quinn is a nutcase. Does she not remember the PBL fiasco? I'll admit the MTA could run some things a little better, but having the city take over our transit system is gonna lead to a transit nightmare just like it has in the past.

 

I hope to God she doesn't win.

 

i agree i actually hope Anthony Weiner runs (if mark sandford can run for congress why not him?)

[qjtransitmaster]

I agree... We know what our needs are and what our commutes are like so we should have more say in the services we get.

bingo soon it will come soon.

[B35 via Church]

I think Ms Quinn needs a history lesson.

Wouldn't do any good... She'd still reiterate that the city should control city based transportation services instead of the state....

With politicians, it's all about influencing voters that 'all that glitters IS gold' (with their messages)... Which we know is a load of crap....

 

Nah, just shows how politicians will say any kneejerk 'solutions' to pander for votes.

 

I do agree the city should get a say, but to let the city foot the bill while Albany still taxes us to death? Never gonna work. As bad as it is with the state, I'd rather they control the funding than to let another group of hands to rob.

Oh I agree that the city should have a say too; shouldn't be all on the state or w/e.... But that's the extent of it....

But as others have brought up, do we really have to look any further than the situation with the PBL's....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I cant possibly facepalm this. It's so stupid I cant...............

 

Ridership went up after all the PBL's were combined into MTA, what good will redoing the whole broken record do?

[RTS CNG Command]

Ridership went up after all the PBL's were combined into MTA, what good will redoing the whole broken record do?

It won't do any good. All the progress the former PBL routes had would be all for naught if Quinn ever had her way. To make it worse, instead of a few routes like in the 1990s and early-2000s, New York City would operate ALL the routes, including the former PBLs, and the subway. This PBLs' problems back then would at least triple in size because the city cannot afford maintaining every single thing.

 

Many of us have long criticized the financial and mechanical stress NICE is put under in Nassau. It wouldn't surprise me if NICE's problems would be equivalent to that here if it ever came to fruition.

 

With politicians, it's all about influencing voters that 'all that glitters IS gold' (with their messages)... Which we know is a load of crap....

This citizen ain't gonna be easily convinced. I need some good ol' common sense with their proposals, and Quinn gave me none of that here.

[NY1635]

Christine Quinn is a nutcase. Does she not remember the PBL fiasco? I'll admit the MTA could run some things a little better, but having the city take over our transit system is gonna lead to a transit nightmare just like it has in the past.

 

I hope to God she doesn't win.

 

What was the PBL fiasco?

[Orion VII 4 Life]

What was the PBL fiasco?

The PBLs (private bus lines) were I believe 7 companies that provided bus services in the outer boroughs. They were subsidized and (poorly) supervised/managed by the NYCDOT. Service was awful, the maintenance at most of the companies was awful, and there were 20+ year old buses still on the road in 2005-6. DOT wouldn't buy buses or do anything to make the services better, so they sold the franchises to the MTA and their operations became MTA Bus Co. As others have said, service, quality, and ridership went way up since the MTA takeover, and bringing back the PBLs or city managed transit could very well lead to another situation like that.

 

Which reminds me, for anyone saying Christine Quinn couldn't do something like this, remember that NYCDOT still funds MTA Bus. If she wanted to bring MTAB back under city control that could happen, all they'd have to do is do what Ed Mangano did with LI Bus, cut subsidies to the MTA and take over/hire private companies to operate MTA Bus. NYCT on the other hand, yeah that's not gonna happen.

[MHV9218]

Which reminds me, for anyone saying Christine Quinn couldn't do something like this, remember that NYCDOT still funds MTA Bus. If she wanted to bring MTAB back under city control that could happen, all they'd have to do is do what Ed Mangano did with LI Bus, cut subsidies to the MTA and take over/hire private companies to operate MTA Bus. NYCT on the other hand, yeah that's not gonna happen.

 

She still can't. This is just her blowing her mouth off, not actually a feasible possibility because the suburbs would flip out at the payroll taxes if the head of the MTA was picked by the mayor.

[bobtehpanda]

At least Sal Albanese, the only Dem with decent transit proposals that are more than lip service, proposed taking NYCT and the city's tunnels, bridges, and highways to help pay for the whole thing. She's just piggybacking to make it look like she's doing something.

 

I can't help but think that MTA might do better split up into more manageable parts, like how Chicago's stuff is divided into CTA, Pace, and Metra. The current agency's a bit big and unwieldy. Maybe split into NYCT, and a Northern and Eastern suburban agency?

[Grand Concourse]

Yeah ^

Basically each area tells the state what they need specifically, but basically the state holding the purse strings and the final say. 

The PBLs (private bus lines) were I believe 7 companies that provided bus services in the outer boroughs. They were subsidized and (poorly) supervised/managed by the NYCDOT. Service was awful, the maintenance at most of the companies was awful, and there were 20+ year old buses still on the road in 2005-6. DOT wouldn't buy buses or do anything to make the services better, so they sold the franchises to the MTA and their operations became MTA Bus Co. As others have said, service, quality, and ridership went way up since the MTA takeover, and bringing back the PBLs or city managed transit could very well lead to another situation like that.

 

Which reminds me, for anyone saying Christine Quinn couldn't do something like this, remember that NYCDOT still funds MTA Bus. If she wanted to bring MTAB back under city control that could happen, all they'd have to do is do what Ed Mangano did with LI Bus, cut subsidies to the MTA and take over/hire private companies to operate MTA Bus. NYCT on the other hand, yeah that's not gonna happen.

Liberty Lines and NYBS and maybe QSC were among the better of the group though. Command and JBI would be maybe average. TBC and GL were both shit.

And to add on to that: if the city was to take on the funding directly, I wouldn't be surprised they get rid of the higher costing express bus routes and any other low use lines. So I totally do not want to have more TBC or GL type service and buses around again.

[Culver]

At least Sal Albanese, the only Dem with decent transit proposals that are more than lip service, proposed taking NYCT and the city's tunnels, bridges, and highways to help pay for the whole thing. She's just piggybacking to make it look like she's doing something.

 

I can't help but think that MTA might do better split up into more manageable parts, like how Chicago's stuff is divided into CTA, Pace, and Metra. The current agency's a bit big and unwieldy. Maybe split into NYCT, and a Northern and Eastern suburban agency?

Albanese rocks. The guy knows his stuff. Sadly, he has zero chance. Sad, really.

[qjtransitmaster]

At least Sal Albanese, the only Dem with decent transit proposals that are more than lip service, proposed taking NYCT and the city's tunnels, bridges, and highways to help pay for the whole thing. She's just piggybacking to make it look like she's doing something.

 

I can't help but think that MTA might do better split up into more manageable parts, like how Chicago's stuff is divided into CTA, Pace, and Metra. The current agency's a bit big and unwieldy. Maybe split into NYCT, and a Northern and Eastern suburban agency?

Interesting I never thought of it like that wouldn't that allow for a cross honoring system between buses and LIRR/MNRR?

[Trainmaster5]

Since I didn't really pay much attention to Ms Bloomielite's original statement can someone tell me what she's really thinking? IIRC the NYC Board of Transportation had control of most of the city's transportation before the advent of the  NYC Transit Authority . Between that time and the formation of what's now the the city ran the bus and subway system into the ground. It was only through the and New York state's financial aid that the whole system didn't come to a halt. I'm sure she knows that. Is she asking for the city to have a greater voice in the (MTA)s operations in NYC or is she asking for control of NYCT and it's operation ? From where I sit neither she nor the city has the money to pay the cost to be the boss. The city and state have cut transit money over the years so where would the city get the money to take control of  and operate NYCT ? Going by memory the only real moneymaker in the whole empire is the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority (TBTA) and you can bet your last dollar the state and are not going to give the city control over that domain. What about the PBL as some here have mentioned? There is another PBL in this mix that most posters here don't even realize is a part of this. Fifth Avenue Coach line which is now called MABSTOA. What about the residents of the "forgotten borough"? Does Bloomielite want control of the SIR too? This appears, at least to me, as the work of a candidate trying to broaden her base by pandering to every segment of the city by fighting the "evil" . I see too many unanswered holes in her proposal as it now stands. Let's not forget that the was formed, in part, to keep regional transportation out of the hands of local politicians. They had no control, hence the local politicians couldn't be blamed for the problems in local transportation. I have no love for the and some of it's workings but I sure don't trust most local pols. Think Malcolm Smith, Vito Lopez and the like and you can see where I'm coming from.  I think her campaign needs to elaborate this proposal before I can take it seriously. Just my opinion. Carry on.

[bobtehpanda]

Since I didn't really pay much attention to Ms Bloomielite's original statement can someone tell me what she's really thinking? IIRC the NYC Board of Transportation had control of most of the city's transportation before the advent of the  NYC Transit Authority . Between that time and the formation of what's now the the city ran the bus and subway system into the ground. It was only through the and New York state's financial aid that the whole system didn't come to a halt. I'm sure she knows that. Is she asking for the city to have a greater voice in the (MTA)s operations in NYC or is she asking for control of NYCT and it's operation ? From where I sit neither she nor the city has the money to pay the cost to be the boss. The city and state have cut transit money over the years so where would the city get the money to take control of  and operate NYCT ? Going by memory the only real moneymaker in the whole empire is the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority (TBTA) and you can bet your last dollar the state and are not going to give the city control over that domain. What about the PBL as some here have mentioned? There is another PBL in this mix that most posters here don't even realize is a part of this. Fifth Avenue Coach line which is now called MABSTOA. What about the residents of the "forgotten borough"? Does Bloomielite want control of the SIR too? This appears, at least to me, as the work of a candidate trying to broaden her base by pandering to every segment of the city by fighting the "evil" . I see too many unanswered holes in her proposal as it now stands. Let's not forget that the was formed, in part, to keep regional transportation out of the hands of local politicians. They had no control, hence the local politicians couldn't be blamed for the problems in local transportation. I have no love for the and some of it's workings but I sure don't trust most local pols. Think Malcolm Smith, Vito Lopez and the like and you can see where I'm coming from.  I think her campaign needs to elaborate this proposal before I can take it seriously. Just my opinion. Carry on.

 

To be honest, that was because in the days of Robert Moses, the mayors were all spineless Tammany stooges, but that's another story for another time.

[qjtransitmaster]

To be honest, that was because in the days of Robert Moses, the mayors were all spineless Tammany stooges, but that's another story for another time.

Your take on it?

[Trainmaster5]

To be honest, that was because in the days of Robert Moses, the mayors were all spineless Tammany stooges, but that's another story for another time.

I agree with your take on the NYC mayors and Robert Moses. The point I'm getting at is that you can't control transit in NYC unless you control the money tree. Does Ms Quinn want a greater say in NYCT operations or does she actually want control? Without raising fares astronomically and increasing the city contribution the best she can gain is a greater say in transit operations. Robert Moses was able to run his fiefdom for as long as he did because it was based on federal money and tolls which the mayors and governors of New York let him control from the days of FDR. The same situation exists today except that the PANY&NJ and New York State, through the , control the money tree in the downstate region instead of one man. It's my opinion that if the downstate region would ever relinquish control of NYCT, with or without including TBTA, the PANY&NJ would ultimately end up running the NYCTA, and not the mayor of NYC. In other words the governor of NY would still have control of city transit without the other counties of the having any bickering about NYC siphoning money away from them. There wouldn't be a situation like NICE vs the again. Nassau County went the privatization route but history has already shown us that that way, or direct municipal ownership and control, has been a failure in NYC. As you put it that's a story for another day but I still say the option of NYC mayoral control is not as simplistic as Ms Quinn presents it. Carry on.

[bobtehpanda]

Your take on it?

 

MTA should be broken up into more manageable bits (NYCT+SIR+MTAB, MNRR, and a LIRR agency that has the scope to take over LIB should the need arise), because the current organization functions as an unwieldy punching bag, with Long Islanders and upstate New Yorkers complaining about subsidizing city riders even though most of their constituents are subsidized by city riders. With separate agencies, at least the delineation of responsibilities is clearer, and it's not like the three constituent parts work with each other on a regular basis, anyways.

 

There are many correct ways and incorrect ways to go about this, but slapping a citywide transit authority under DOT without also taking the bridges, tunnels, and highways under NYCDOT would be a disaster. Then there are politicians who promise to keep fares low, yadda yadda yadda.

 

The agencies should be separated for less political headaches, and if politicians have to have control over the new city agency, then City Council would be better to control it than the mayor. (See: Toronto). At the same time, it should just be an independent city authority, with the power to set fares as it pleases, and leadership should be picked through civil service. Ideally it would control all transportation in the city - roads (and the power to toll and set meter rates at will), subways, buses, and ferries. That's the best outcome I can think of.

 

This isn't a thread about my thoughts, however, so I'll refrain from getting into arguments over this.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

I don't see the need for a breakup of the MTA, MBTA has a similar setup and they're doing fine.

[qjtransitmaster]

Interesting take from both sides great arguments.

[BrooklynBus]

I don't know if the city should take over, but the city should certainly more say in how things are run in terms of services.  She does have a valid point in that we the residents know what we need the most and this is something that the is slow and often times STUBBORN to accept.  

I think the MTA should remain as is but the Board Members need to represent more of the Cities interests. I liked Markowitzs position that each borough president and affected county representatives all being given positions on the Board. The union should also be represented. That makes more sense than having it composed of bankers and real estate interests not accountable to the riders.

[BrooklynBus]

Also here remark about sbs services only being available in manhattan is wrong how about the bx12,s79 and soon the bx41,the bx-lga route and b44. she sould get her facts before flapping her gums.

I heard that someone once had to explain to her that the New York City Transit Authority was part of te MTA . Guess she knows that now.