How Do You Feel If Your Public Library was replaced by Luxury Building with Small Library?

[FamousNYLover]

Tonight, I attended Citizens Defending Public Libraries Meeting in Brooklyn.

 

[mtattrain]

Indifferent 'nuff end.

[realizm]

You gotta be kidding me. That's what these greedy developers are up to? That's insane. Bloomberg got to go! This guy is a madman! My god. What more damage is he going to do before he leaves City Hall? I swear this guys sick in the head, seriously, and I'm not trying to be funny.

[FamousNYLover]

If anyone's interest in petition, powerful petition.

http://signon.org/sign/save-new-york-city-libraries.fb25?source=s.fb&r_by=4535018

[User]

I doubt Queens Library would do that, especially to their branches around here. It all depends on the area, and sometimes, you just gotta go with it because its in the entire public's best interest, not just yours.

[Turbo19]

I doubt Queens Library would do that, especially to their branches around here. It all depends on the area, and sometimes, you just gotta go with it because its in the entire public's best interest, not just yours.

I must ask everyone though, how is this in the public's best interest in the slightest?

[peacemak3r]

I know one thing, majority of the people in my area doesn't even know that the library on Nostrand still exists.  The technology splurge is taking over and honestly when someone mentions library a lot of times I get these answers: "just use KCC's library or any other CUNY."

[Burrstone]

Interest argument on both sides, books are becoming extinct as it's easier and cheaper to archive to archive books digitally.  Does NYC need the expense of storing so many books people aren't reading?  I think libraries should transition into technology centers and agree with Brett and Turbo19 that something should be done with the library buildings to benefit the communities.  Is a condo complex going to benefit the community?  I don't think so, if a developer wants the building I say let them sponsor a local public school and contribute a majority of the budget as long as the Condo complex is operational.

[realizm]

Interest argument on both sides, books are becoming extinct as it's easier and cheaper to archive to archive books digitally.

Yes books are becoming digitized but it doesn't give the administration the excuse to close libraries, sorry. Many libraries offer resources for kids to take advantage of information technology and special events. For children as well as adults in need of training for many life skills. Walk into the Flushing library one day, observe and you will see my point here.

 

On books you know that there are tons of printing firms that are actually doing well in the industry, in part of advancing technology. No you are not correct. Books are not becoming extinct. This is not like we are living in the age of the Jetsons. It does'nt work like that.

[CenSin]

I know one, and let me tell you that his kids have never touched a public school, much less a public library.
 

if a developer wants the building I say let them sponsor a local public school and contribute a majority of the budget as long as the Condo complex is operational.

Better public funding will always be better than depending on private funding. Turn enough public property over to private ownership and the public will be making a costly mistake—having to kowtow to these people for meager funding.

[Burrstone]

I know one, and let me tell you that his kids have never touched a public school, much less a public library.

 

Better public funding will always be better than depending on private funding. Turn enough public property over to private ownership and the public will be making a costly mistake—having to kowtow to these people for meager funding.

 

Better public funding is not always an option, and rather more of a fairy tale these days.  I was not talking about turning this building into over to private ownership for meager funding.  I was suggesting major funding (a majority of a schools budget) plus the fair market price (maybe above).  If someone wants the address they'll  have to pay for it in the terms of high maintenance which collectively will  pay to support the schools budget.  You may look at it as "having to kowtow to these people for meager funding" I look at it as a way to support a school, maybe one that has been shutdown, in turn for the fair market price of a building that is increasingly only another building to fund instead of a tool to the community.

[Interested Rider]

As of the best (if not the best i far as New York City) Libraries are concerned there are three different systems with three different sets of problems.

 

The best system is the Queensborough Public Library as the branches are newer and located on main streets where shopping is done. This has helped circulation tremendously and the Queens Library is rated by its peers as one of the best (if not the best) in the country. Its Long Island Division is really great and it has a lot of materials that are important to transit history.

 

The second system is the New York Public Library and it is only because of its flagship collection on 42nd Street and 5th Avenue. It is that building that is the major source of interest. The branch libraries are in poor shape as they receive about 20% of the funding that the 42nd Street and 5th Avenue building receives. Its branches are located in out of the way places, are old Carnegie buildings and the collections suffer from lack of funding. Donnell Library which was on 53rd Street near 5th Avenue was closed and it was reported that a hotel would be built there sometime ago but nothing has happened. It too is looking to sell many of its buildings especially in Midtown Manhattan.

 

Brooklyn Public Library is the thrid system and it is caught between the research library in Manhattan and the best system in Queens. It has many of the same problems as the New York Public Library in terms of its branches but it has other problems as well. It's Central Library is virtually inaccessible in terms of mass transit and located in the middle of nowhere unlike Queens Central Library and its multitude of bus routes terminating within a short distance. It's crown jewel is the business library located in Brooklyn Heights and close to the business center of Brooklyn and for many years the place to find business information in this city..The proposal by the Brooklyn Public Library to move it to the Central Library will destroy its high level of usage. Its branches suffer from the same neglect as Manhattan as the branches are for the most part located off the main streets where shopping is done. The buildings are old and have been neglected.

 

People will use libraries if they are accessible (look at Queens library) and there are other items besides books that would be checked out. The problem here is that many of the NYPL and BPL branches are not accessible in terms of locations and where they are, they flourish. While the Queens LIbrary  focuses on the whole picture and their branches are in good shape, the focus in the New York Public Library is on the research library and not on the branches. Take a look at many of the branches and see their collections, there is some difference in temrs of their collections. Brooklyn is in the worst shape as it has neither a strong research library nor the commanding circulation figures and is suffering in terms of its collection.. .

 

Libraries have a future in this city and that is why both the New York Public and Brooklyn Public Libraries should look at the Queens Library for improvement. For many years, while Queens was getting all the glory htrough its innovations, the others sat on their hands and did nothing for the branches. It is time for the others to make the changes for the future.

[Roadcruiser1]

Think about this. Every time you step into a Brooklyn Public Library you can see a chart that shows when the newest Library was built. The last Library that was built was in the 1980's. That's almost 33 years with no construction, no upgrades, nothing. That is unbelievable. If we want our country to be populated with intelligent people instead of Jersey Shore heads then we will fix up our Libraries. They are a source of knowledge that is needed.

[realizm]

^^^^ The library on Ft Hamilton Pkway was very recently upgraded last May. Looks great. Desperately needed upgrade for Boro Park and Brooklyn Chinatown residents. For a small library it is packed with kids. I remember in college when I had to study for tests the ddult section was packed could'nt even find a table and hit the bakeries instead. But generally I hear you.

[CenSin]

Better public funding is not always an option, and rather more of a fairy tale these days.  I was not talking about turning this building into over to private ownership for meager funding.  I was suggesting major funding (a majority of a schools budget) plus the fair market price (maybe above).  If someone wants the address they'll  have to pay for it in the terms of high maintenance which collectively will  pay to support the schools budget.

I do not think I want to make people who have no inherent motivation to provide funding to provide a majority of the funding. You can see a similar problem with the MTA's subway entrances that are stewarded by non-MTA property owners: shuttered entrances, broken escalators, and simply neglect. This is despite the property owners being legally obligated to keep these necessities working! http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/12/08/mta-ig-privately-owned-escalators-not-monitored-properly/

 

How about we make our politicians budget tax money more responsibly? Is that not an option?

[realizm]

You know, shifting discussion for a second, it's amazing to me what has happened with city agencies and employment. They make it impossible for people to get into the mix in city agencies (six months wo wait for a civil service exam and the grade?) and would rather use temps for clerical work and what have you. I am not sure if this is the case with the New York Public Library, Brooklyn Public Library etc etc. That shows the greed of the politicians on the part of city services and agencies that serve New York. The positions are there. They just don't want to pay that money. As a non civil servant but a temp on contract you have no rights to benefits and not exactly covered by their HR departments, they are not obligated to keep a temp. Such ppl in this position can get let go at any time and then forced to take up welfare and unemployment. I see this often enough for me to point this out.

 

OK enough rambling. Point is a huge concern with Albany is payroll issues. It's affecting the non for profit organizations and city agencies. They don;'t want to pay even in an apparent improved economy. They are downsizing, which comes back to libraries being threatened to be closed. A side effect of budget cuts.

[SoSpectacular]

They got nothing else to build on so they go after the libraries. As a kid, I spent hours at the library. They can't do this to this kids of today.

 

Big business ruins everything. Despicable.

[Grand Concourse]

With the kids today, are they really using a library to read books? Seems like McDonald's or such places is where they hang out. Much as I think we need public libraries, I think they probably should consolidate some branches and make the existing one better than to have 2 mediocre branches.

[Interested Rider]

I ahve read most of the postings and as a retired librarian (not from either of the three systems), I can attest to the problems that the three different systems have had every year.

 

When I started work for the state, I had to take an examination for the position of librarian. I started out as an Assistant Librarian and was reclassified and promoted to a Senior Librarian which was the position that I had when I retired. The three library systems do not have civil service examinations and therefore it is one that is pick and choose .Does that mean the librarians are competent, yes but are they aware of our local history and customs, no. As they are not part of New York City Government but just a related agency, they are in a different world.This creates a major problem as for the libraries do not have a constituency that they can depend on to make sure that they receive money. Politicans understand votes and this is where the library seems to fall down as they cannot command the large number of people that will make the politicians take note.

 

As far as the buildings are concerned, it is part of the capital budget and libraries have to compete against schools and other public works. Again it is fight for funds and other mayoral related agencies seem to triumph over library needs.I know how badly libraries need new buildings and renovations but the city will contend that the money is not there. A possible solution is to offer incentives to builders to incorporate public library space within their buildings thus providing new space for exisiting libraries that are in buildings that are in poor shape.

 

There is another problem here and that I spoke about before as it impacts upon the entire library profession. It is the way that the public (and for that matter politicians) percieve our role in todays society. The myth that has been perpetuated by many is that in the information age, libraries have become irrelevant in todays world. Corporate and government libraries are disappearing as they downsize and employees receive their information from the internet. In terms of the law, when I first started no one thought of Westlaw but now the books are gone and the computer is the database. Is it the best form of research, no but it has become the way companies save money.

 

As far as librarians are concerned,whenever a person either dies or reitres those out of work start to look at if the position will be filled. Interestingly as I write this E-Mail today on a library computer (don't ask about why but it is a war), I am willing to bet that there are inquiries as to the filling of a librarian position in Enfield CT as the person just passed yesterday. The person was a relative of mine and I would not be surprised there is interest in the position 

 

 

  

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, for kids, (outside of) libraries are hangout spots after school or w/e, but I still find it disgusting that a public library would be torn down for some luxury building.... I can't side w/ the notion that public libraries are becoming obsolete either... You do have those adults that aren't gunning for barnes & noble's & rather opt for the tranquility of their local library instead..... It's a resource that shouldn't fall victim to development/over-development.....

[Turbo19]

While many can argue that public library branches have become more of a hangout spot, I feel that is a step in the right direction. The fact is that libraries build a sense of community. They're essential to sustain a community in more ways than one.

[MTARegional Bus]

They should be converted to public Job Training and learning centers. 

[FamousNYLover]

If anyone is interested to attend Citizens Defending Public Libraries, they meet every Sunday at 4pm at 101 Clark St, in the library room.

[FamousNYLover]

If anyone is interested, there will be rally this Wed, May 8th.

Posted by Carolyn McIntyre (Citizens Defending Public Libraries)

Take action to stop the Central Library Plan and save the 42nd Street Library!  Please join us for a week of leafleting at the 42nd Street Library culminating in a Rally on Wednesday, May 8th, during the New York Public Library Trustees meeting at the 42nd Street Library. 

We will leaflet for one hour starting at Noon on Wednesday (May 1), Thursday (May 2), Friday (May 3), Saturday (May 4), Monday (May 6) and Tuesday (May 7).  Come join us in front of the 42nd Street Library on 5th Avenue at any of these times!  We will have plenty of flyers and signs.
Then, come to the Rally on Wednesday, May 8th, at 3:30 PM in front of the 42nd Street Library facing 5th Avenue.  The rally will start promptly at 3:30 so we can have a strong presence as the Trustees enter the building.  If you can't make it at 3:30, join us after work at 5pm to greet the Trustees on their way out.  

The Central Library Plan (CLP), at enormous cost to New York City and its taxpayers, would irreparably damage the 42nd Street Research Library – one of the world’s great reference libraries and a historic landmark. The CLP would demolish the library’s historic book stacks, install a circulating library in their stead, and displace 1.5 million books to central New Jersey. The new circulating library would be a reduced-size replacement for the Mid-Manhattan Library (at 40th and 5th Avenue) and SIBL (Science, Industry and Business Library, at 34th and Madison), which would both be sold off.  For more information about the Central Library Plan and its potential negative impacts on both the 42nd Street Library and the circulating libraries it would replace, see www.savenypl.org.

It has become increasingly apparent that the CLP is part of a larger effort by New York City’s public library systems to shrink their capacity and sell off valuable real estate, which started with the controversial sale in 2008 of the beloved Donnell Library to real estate developers.  The leafleting and rally are being cosponsored by our friends at The Committee To Save The New York  Public Library. (written by CSNYPL)

 

 

[Interested Rider]

The truth is that libraries have lost sight of their mission for many years and as a result they are under attack from all sides no matter what institution where they are located.

 

As far New York Public Library is concerned, the main focus is on the Research Library with crumbs given to the branches. Donnell Library should have never been closed as it had one of the highest circulation figures in the entire system as well as a fantastic selection of books. It was located in an area where people would come in on their lunch hour or stop off after work to find something to read at home or on the way home. Mid-Manhattan Library along with the Science and Technology Library are on the chopping blocks as well for one reason, real estate. The money that should be given to the branches to improve their collections which unfortunately now consist of DVD's, computers and a small selection of books. If you want a title that you are interested now, it is either check the interlibrary loan or try world cat. to find out if anyone has it.

 

Yes! there are programs like Zumba, recitations by poets and musicians and even entertainment which makes it appear that it is another community center for the young people and the senior citizens. The library in my community is just that and in fact shares programs with the local community center. I will agree that libraries have become hangouts for young people but in many communities there may be no community center. When I first started in the field I never thought that I would see a library with a policeman. Now it is common place in many libraries. The public perception of the internet as the source of all information has virtually destroyed library use. If you look at the number of persons reading and checking out books, it varies among different ethnic and age groups. It is usually the young that want to learn how to read and the older person that has had a tradition of reading that are the communities that read the most.

 

In college libraries, the various databases have replaced the books and since more students feel comfortable with the internet, it becomes the main tool of library usage. Books that used to provide basic information for the person that is seeking general information are long gone, replaced by the internet. The art of writing a letter of complaint has disappeared and the chat room has replaced it where the company is able to see what is going on now.