What was the rationale for making the R local?

[bobtehpanda]

I got news for you - EVERY Sunday night the first n/b trip I make on the goes like this - we come into W4 and get hammered like crazy by everyone running down the ramp at the south end of the station and insisting on squeezing into the first set of doors. And quite often we have a or arriving downstairs so we got people running up the stairs too. It's the worst station stop on the entire line. So then we finally get out of there and come into the 14 St, and it's the same thing again there with that south end staircase, and by the time I'm starting to close the doors, the behind us shows up on the express track and all those a**holes who held my train trying to get on are now holding my doors AGAIN trying to get off so that they can get onto their precious express. But hey, now the can deal with the overcrowding, while my now nearly empty train scoots along to 23, 34, 42 and 50 where most of the pax want the behind me, and then we're in and out of 59CC before that ever has a chance to catch up. And even if they ARE keeping up with me, they're still gonna get blocked by the in the station while I get an unobstructed line up in and out of there. I usually see that same (and I know it's the same one because I recognize the conductor) again at 125, and then again at 145. Except my riders were able to sit between 14-145 instead of being crammed into the "express" train.

 

This is, of course, assuming that you manage to catch a . I feel like the comes a lot less frequently than a lot of other train lines, or at least comes less reliably.

[PATCOman]

On that same subject of A vs C, whenever I'm on the C and someone asks where the A is or if it's running, I don't even bother to convince them to take the C anymore since they will probably refuse anyway!

[koolmazin]

This is, of course, assuming that you manage to catch a . I feel like the comes a lot less frequently than a lot of other train lines, or at least comes less reliably.

No way everytime I wait for an the and always come first and most of the time it's several trains before an shows up!

[CDTA]

No way everytime I wait for an the and always come first and most of the time it's several trains before an shows up!

Correction: Whichever one you are waiting* for doesn't show up

[Snowblock]

On that same subject of A vs C, whenever I'm on the C and someone asks where the A is or if it's running, I don't even bother to convince them to take the C anymore since they will probably refuse anyway!

Why do we ALWAYS get that question? When is the ever NOT running????

[Roadcruiser1]

Whenever I am waiting along the Eighth Avenue Line it's always usually the or trains that show up first, and usually I mostly catch the so........

[CDTA]

As a CPW rider, it seems like the never comes, and the is always right behind it, so that's irrelevant  but yet whenever I went from Midtown to Harlem instead, it seems like it's nothing but locals. 

 

Another example of the above^^

I used to commute from Columbia-Pres to the northern part of 7th Ave, and the M2 seemed like it was always the 8th bus to show up, meanwhile a horde of M3's kept pulling up. Then, I move to 8th Ave (the part near St. Nick) so I have to start taking the M3, and it seemed like the M3 was always the 8th bus to show up, with hordes of M2, coming in the meanwhile.

[bstar1]

That's what locals are for to make every stop that express doesn't stop.

[CenSin]

As a CPW rider, it seems like the never comes, and the is always right behind it, so that's irrelevant  but yet whenever I went from Midtown to Harlem instead, it seems like it's nothing but locals.

The was there for me when I needed it. Taking it from Washington Heights (at a local stop), it's never a minute or two away. Taking the to 168 Street and then hopping on a to backtrack, the seems to leave right when the northbound is about to leave. It also helps me catch my at 125 Street (or an that will catch a at West 4 Street).

[Vistausss]

The was never express on 4th Avenue... why would it? The path it takes just makes it easier for it to be a local. 

 

Except for GO's and stuff, it's usually local.

 

 

[koolmazin]

Except for GO's and stuff, it's usually local.

 

 

Wow they need to put R160s actually back on the

[Metro CSW]

Lol, no matter how slow local trains people say they are, they're still convenient for all subway stations.

[Around the Horn]

Wow they need to put R160s actually back on the

What I thought from the beginning...A R68 would be cool too.

[Rtrain4thAv]

An R40 would have been more cool if they used the slanted version. Is there any image of the R40's slant end on the ?

[Guest Lance]

An R40 would have been more cool if they used the slanted version. Is there any image of the R40's slant end on the ?

Slants never ran on the R. Only the 40Ms and the 42s.

[pjbr40]

Slants never ran on the R. Only the 40Ms and the 42s.

i remember the 32 was on the that rock the line. both old and new.(old as the single handle bar)

[realizm]

Hi, I am Rtrain4thAv and I am new to this forum. I often take the R to work and school and noticed that the R is often local at the places it goes, regardless of line (Queens Blvd., Broadway or 4th Avenue). What and why was the R (Fourth Avenue Local via Tunnel) always local?

 

Sup!

 

I always wondered myself for a long time, and I really could not come up with a concrete answer as a former subway straphanger for the decades I've lived in NYC. No matter how much research that I can put into this I really am not sure to be honest. You asked a very tough question.

 

My wild guess is having to do with the intent behind the design of the 4th Ave line as well as, later on the Nassau St line and the Broadway line, also the order of construction and activation of these BMT lines for revenue service. Otherwise the reasons I imagine is lost in time with the BMT and the Dual Contract arcititects and engineers. Which goes into another rich and historic, yet very complicated and complex issue

 

The original service that became the  was designated as the # 2 when the BMT operated these lines aforementioned. It entered service in 1916, operating between Chambers Street on the BMT Nassau Street Line and 86th Street on the BMT 4th Ave line via the Manhattan Bridge (!!!).

 

Two years later service on the BMT Broadway Line was activated but local service was only between Whitehall St and Times Square. A supplemental river crossing was needed.

 

Therefore as the Montague Street Tunnel opened on October 1, 1920, the BMT began running the BMT 2 from Queensboro Plaza to 86th Street, then finally Bay Ridge – 95th Street station opened on October 31, 1925. The rest is history as the MTA took over in the 1960's and basically retained the original pattern more or less with terminal swaps over the years.

 

Good points were brought out by others on the IND QBL connection and that can be a definite factor. However if I'm correct when the was running to Forest Hills, it was actually an express.

 

Go figure the BMT......

 

 

 

What about the local?

 

According to T/O TwoTimer (How is he nowadays anyway? Give him my regards) the R160's on the route via express will hit almost 50MPH easy on the stretch between Marcy and Myrtle Ave. Otherwise yes I am in accord with you on this one. Excruciatingly slow until it hits the beginning of the Archer Ave extension in Queens.

[CenSin]

Good points were brought out by others on the IND QBL connection and that can be a definite factor. However if I'm correct when the was running to Forest Hills, it was actually an express.

The was a local too to Forest Hills. Track connections sometisme dictates the kind of service possible, and pretty much all Broadway service that ever ran on the Queens Boulevard line were local.

[realizm]

The was a local too to Forest Hills. Track connections sometisme dictates the kind of service possible, and pretty much all Broadway service that ever ran on the Queens Boulevard line were local.

 

Sorry for not being clear, I meant that the was express in Manhattan at one point, terminating at Forest Hills as a QBL local suplemented by local service pre-63rd Street QBL connection to 57th Street/6th Ave.

 

 

Meh, mind's foggy on this particular, but there is a 1985 map archived somewhere on this site that should confirm this.

 

Edit: Indeed track connections south of QBP from the 60th St tunnel will dictate the sort of service possible from BMT Broadway, I agree 100%. Here's the portion of the map confirming  Broadway Express/Queens Blvd Local service circa 1985 -

 

[Eric B]

Slants never ran on the R. Only the 40Ms and the 42s.

Yes they did; in the period right before the switch, when the slants had spread all across the south, and the and had been cut in half, with the slants on the CI half only.

 

Then, in the switch, that's when they first went to the .

[realizm]

Yes they did; in the period right before the switch, when the slants had spread all across the south, and the and had been cut in half, with the slants on the CI half only.

 

Then, in the switch, that's when they first went to the .

 

Say werd!  I never knew that!

[Guest Lance]

Yes they did; in the period right before the switch, when the slants had spread all across the south, and the and had been cut in half, with the slants on the CI half only.

 

Then, in the switch, that's when they first went to the .

Very interesting. Thanks for the clarification.