B/O 4600 Hiring Process

[tdevon2012]

OK. So I read and reread all these replies/posts including my own and was completely confused.. again... about this whole outstanding certification thing, so I decided to call someone that I know who works for the city's IT department and asked for a complete explanation of what this thing means.

 

Basically tdevon2012's last entry is correct but I would like to expand on his posts to help explain to whomever is interested in the "technical explanation" I was given by someone who understands DCAS from a information technology standpoint. The person I know is part of the database management team for these lists. Anyone who doesn't want to be bothered with the technical explanation can just stop reading now and just relax it doesn't mean anything regarding your employment status and you are fine and are still on the waiting list regardless whether you are "on an outstanding certification" or not....Period!

 

Now for the wonky stuff....

 

DCAS is the main database of people applying for any job with a city agency (except public school teachers). When anybody takes an exam or applies for an open position with a city agency (like the MTA, Dept of Health, Courts, NYPD, etc) the applicants information is stored in the DCAS database. When a city agency is actively hiring, they request eligible applicants from the DCAS database that fit the profile or have passed the required exams for the positions they are trying to fill. When the city human resources department sends the applicants information from DCAS to the agency, the status of the applicants sent to the agency changes to "ON AN OUSTANDING CERTIFICATION". When the city agency has filled the open positions the agency stops picking from the list and releases the remaining applicants back to city human resources department and the DCAS database is updated. The people not hired/selected remain on the list and the status changes to "NOT ON AN OUSTANDING CERTIFICATION". The next time a city agency is actively hiring the process repeats itself... over and over again until there are no more applicants left or the list expires, which ever comes first.

 

I ask my friend why do they do this, he/she said that in the case of 4600 bus operator list it sort of useless because its not very common for multiple city agencies to request a list of bus drivers but there are many agencies that can draw applicants from more common DCAS list such as Civil Service Exam, Electricians, Plumbers, Carpenters, you get the idea. In our case its usually just the MTA that gets applicants from list 4600.

 

Think of it like a public library, someone checks-out a book the system says the book is not available ("ON AN OUTSTANDING CERTIFICATION") when the book is returned then the system says the book is available ("IS NOT ON AN OUTSTANDING CERTIFICATION"). The one thing my friend did say is that truth be told, its been debated internally that this status information be available publicly because its really an internal thing between agencies and the DCAS system administrators but they wanted to give people a little bit of an indication of current activity. He explained, if the status is "ON AN OUSTANDING CERTIFICATION" then be aware that they are selecting people or as he/she says, the list is HOT. If the status is "NOT ON AN OUTSTANDING CERTIFICATION" the list is "COLD" and the MTA is not actively selecting drivers (in the case of the 4600 list).

 

So ladies and gentlemen that is the explanation. If when you check the DCAS hotline it says you are "ON AN OUTSTANDING CERTIFICATION" check your mailbox for a pre-employment letter otherwise don't be anxious about a letter.

 

Hope that helps! Please don't flood me with questions or requests for more detail than this, I pretty much wrote everything I know and can say publicly.

I think everyone should screenshot this response because it was explained perfectly.

 

I recently was on an outstanding certification for conductor for two months then one day I wasn't. It turned out that DCAS sent to manny names to the mta hr department so I went back to not being on a outstanding certification. In the later future I may end up back on certification base on the needs of the agency.

[BusDriverWannabe]

16XX Score 96.667 Currently on NOT OUTSTANDING. Out of  8821 applicant, Last Out Standing Number #1024 last appointed  #95. So meaning I am not ready to be called in correct? Called the DCAS  212-669-1357 and followed the prompts.

 

 

Thanks

 

Correct...  At least for now but your time will come

[isaelperez81]

So they hired only the person listed upto 95?  And processed only upto 1024?

[tdevon2012]

So they hired only the person listed upto 95? And processed only upto 1024?

yes and no. They have hire up to list number 95. DCAS has sent names up to 1,024 for the pre-employment application.

[lisandrojosh9]

Is it true that bus operator is very stressful with a high turnover rate?

Edited June 7, 2016 by lisandrojosh9

[BusDriverWannabe]

Is it true that bus operator is very stressful with a high turnover rate?

 

Drive a 40-foot 43,000-pound bus around the streets of New York City for 8-hours, stop every 3-4 blocks to pickup proud New Yorkers, avoid killing people texting while walking, stay on schedule but don't drive too fast and get caught by red light cameras(you pay those tickets), submit to and pass regular medical exams, submit to random drug test, transport lovely unescorted teenagers to school and back home and finally avoid accidentally hitting a pedestrian (mandatory automatic arrest)...... No Not Really.

[lisandrojosh9]

I've noticed most bus operators I see are very young....I know they go through a lot

[BusDriverWannabe]

I've noticed most bus operators I see are very young....I know they go through a lot

 

There has been a lot of old-timers retiring during the past 20-months so many young adults have to decide between 20-years of college debt or working for 25-years and retiring with full pension and medical. So yeah there will be many young bus drivers, train conductors and police officers among other civil workers.

[lisandrojosh9]

But generally, does bus operator for the Mta have a high turnover rate?

[BusDriverWannabe]

But generally, does bus operator for the Mta have a high turnover rate?

 

That I'm not sure about but if I had to guess, not voluntary turnover. The job pays pretty well, there is a lot of overtime, benefits are awesome, retirement contributions are solid and its relatively difficult to get fired. I will put it this way, I have 9 family members that are bus drivers and dispatchers and most family events/parties are jammed packed with MTA workers since most family friends work for the MTA in some capacity and in the 30+ years of this pattern, I have yet met someone or heard of someone leaving the job voluntarily. Fired for various reasons yes, but not leaving for a different career. Now keep in mind that there is a probation period (about 1-year I think) so most firings are during that period. Also takes 3-years before you get the better pay so perhaps some may leave if they can't support themselves during that time. But generally, I have to believe turnover is not high. Maybe someone else might have hard factual numbers.

Edited June 7, 2016 by BusDriverWannabe

[lisandrojosh9]

Yeah but why do so many operators not recommend the job when I ask them about it?

[BusDriverWannabe]

Yeah but why do so many operators not recommend the job when I ask them about it?

 

Wow! That's an impossible question for anybody to answer, but I will answer it this way... There are 8,221 people on the 4600 exam list and from what I read in the newspapers, almost 15,000 took the exam in 2013. Make your own conclusions.

 

It is a very tough job so you are gonna find drivers that will say that, either they are being honest or they are selfishly saying that to make sure there is always overtime or maybe a little bit of both. 

[lisandrojosh9]

I applied for bus operator and Nypd police officer

[lisandrojosh9]

Why is the training for bus operator so difficult?

[BusDriverWannabe]

Why is the training for bus operator so difficult?

 

Well I don't think the bus operator training is all that difficult however getting your Commercial Driver's License (CDL) is challenging, especially if you have been driving a regular car for many years. Many of the bad habits we develop driving a regular car are big no-no's when driving a bus or truck. Another thing that may make it difficult for many to get through the MTA Bus Operator training is the intensity of the training. 7-8 hours a day for 7-10 days is not easy. You are focused on so many things like mirrors, traffic, tight-turns, air brakes, pedestrians, etc. and all this while you are calling out all the hazards to the examiner/trainer. I have been taking private lessons and I must say I am usually happy when each lesson is over.

 

I must add... Bus Operator training will be a picnic compared to the Police Academy. I don't know anything about it but I do have a good friend that graduated in the last academy class and he said it was very, very difficult. I will not answer any questions about Police training as I am the wrong person to ask and this is not the forum for that.

[lisandrojosh9]

What do you mean by calling out the hazards during the training?

[Membrr]

anythings that is possible to before it be come danger , not to mention xcident , So the run down is hazard , danger , xcident

 

any moving or unmoving object that can distruck you and your ride @ the 1st sign is Hazard .

 

pedistrarian

sketbod

bycikle

rolling, moving unattaint object

thats include UFO , ET and Meteor

Edited June 8, 2016 by Membrr

[Membrr]

b fore you get to it ..

 

imagine you are inside abread loaf ... thats what you driving .

 

cover 4 feets @ right side always , about less then a car wide , keepit that way so no rasco will pass over you from that openning , but thats big for bycle atv , dirt bike sketbord etc to hallo you .

 

when turning left , your left  solder is the pivot point and turning right is the iron holder after the right door is the pivot point  to move your stering wheels , always look at your mirrow ( sweet spot where is your back tireincase it kizz some thingz back there . )

 

cute turn is when your frondbumper past the shap edge of the sidewalk  start to turn the stering . Still look at the mirror , that bus body and tire dont bring anything with the bus  . 

 

So your 360 is hazard .... keep your eye moving so you can see whats all over you .

 

yes they like the bus very very much . and they will rub the bus in a good way when they need it desperately to get in to the bus .

Edited June 8, 2016 by Membrr

[BusDriverWannabe]

What do you mean by calling out the hazards during the training?

 

Well its kind of hard to explain... When you study for your permit exams there are several things that you will learn that are mental, behavioral and procedural. For example your vehicle height and required clearance when driving under bridges and thru underpasses and other thing like always have to use the right-most lane, school crossing and bumpy roads. So lets take a couple of these things:

 

1. Clearance: You always have to be aware of your vehicle height and the clearance required as you drive through tunnels, under bridges and underpasses. In your head you know that if your bus is say 11' 3" then you have to determine if it is safe to drive under a low clearance situation. So if you are driving into say a tunnel or underpass and there is a sign that say 12' 6" then in your mind you know that you will fit safely but since the examiner/trainer can read your thoughts you have to speak out loudly "call out" the potential hazard so in that case I would say out loud "UNDERPASS 12-6... 11-3 CLEARANCE"... By calling out that hazard you are letting the examiner know that you are aware of the potential clearance hazard. Let's say the underpass was 10' then you would instead have to say something like "UNDERPASS 10-feet 11-3 needed, LOW CLEARANCE" then stop the bus. Of course this is all common sense and its usually going on in your brain, but during the road test you have to say it out loud so the examiner is aware that you are calculating the potential hazards.

 

2. Bumpy Roads: When you are driving the bus, the examiner will grade you on your ability to maintain speed. Buses use leaf springs. You cannot drive fast through a bumpy with a vehicle with leaf springs because of the risk of damaging the springs so you have to slow-down. But remember what I said, you are also expected to maintain speed, so if you are going to slow-down you can't just slow-down without saying "Hazard, Bumpy Road, proceeding with caution". The examiner will not penalize you for not maintaining your speed. Again, this is something you would calculate in your brain but you have to say it out loud.

 

3. Right-Most Lane: You are always required to drive your bus on the right lane. If it's a 3-lane or more road and the right lane has parked cars, common sense says you can't drive in the right lane because there are cars parked in that lane so you have to say "Hazard Cars Parked in Right Lane". I know it sounds silly but the idea is that you need to communicate that to the examiner.

 

4. Construction: Whenever you are about to drive pass a construction zone or even some red cones, you have to Call Out: "Hazard Construction ahead on my right/left".

 

5. School Crossing: You must say "Hazard School Crossing ahead, proceeding with caution"

 

There are many other things you need to call out but I think you get the point.... Its a pain in the a** to get use to doing that.

Edited June 8, 2016 by BusDriverWannabe

[+Young+]

Well I don't think the bus operator training is all that difficult however getting your Commercial Driver's License (CDL) is challenging, especially if you have been driving a regular car for many years. Many of the bad habits we develop driving a regular car are big no-no's when driving a bus or truck. Another thing that may make it difficult for many to get through the MTA Bus Operator training is the intensity of the training. 7-8 hours a day for 7-10 days is not easy. You are focused on so many things like mirrors, traffic, tight-turns, air brakes, pedestrians, etc. and all this while you are calling out all the hazards to the examiner/trainer. I have been taking private lessons and I must say I am usually happy when each lesson is over.

 

So I read the last couple of pages, and I like most of the posts, however just to add my 2 cents, based on my experience:

 

When I went through the MTA/NYCT Bus Operator training in Feb. of 2014, in which I was driving a commercial vehicle for the first time, I'll admit, it was overwhelming. Eight hours a day in the bus, for 10 days, plus a snowstorm to deal with (I live in a house), at some points, I had no clue what I was doing.

 

However, once that was over, I did decide to go for the CDL, and after each lesson through Ferrari, which was two hours long each day, I was able to understand the concepts a lot better - between mirrors, tight turns, pedestrians, etc.

 

As far as your bad driving habits - you first have to realize that it is two different vehicles. There are some things I can easily do in a Corolla, that I can't do in a bus, such as squeezing into a tight space, or parallel parking into a certain spot, etc. In addition, as a CDL holder, you're held more responsible for some actions compared to those who do not have a CDL. Click here for more information on that. In addition, there is some information on this in the CDL manual on pages 1-9, 1-10 & 1-11.

 

Now there have been some people, myself included, that have argued that you should get your CDL before the training session. If you don't want to do this, which is understandable, especially in today's economy, I personally recommend getting at least one [1] private lesson in at a local school. This way, you'll start to get used to calling out clearances, hazards, communicating to the instructor/examiner, driving the bigger vehicle, etc. This way, you won't go into Day 1 cold like I did.

 

In addition, if you look through the various Bus Operator threads, there is some information to help you get through the intense training process. One of the things my instructor did was he lent us a packet which contained several handouts. Fortunately, I scanned the pages so I can not only use them in 2019, but to also share this with you folks as well. Just note that the last two handouts are the pre-trip checkoff list for both the interior and exterior for the "Clean Air Hybrid Electric Buses." Therefore, if you use a different bus, there may be some additional things that you would be required to call out.

[lisandrojosh9]

I heard people still fail the 10 day training with their Cdl

[Express Bus Operator]

I heard people still fail the 10 day training with their Cdl

Yes....That's because they didn't accomplish the NYCT on the road training qualification. Face it, we all have bad habits when it comes to driving especially if you have years of experience behind the wheel. For a school bus driver or truck driver, they have to adapt the way MTA drives especially making turns and covering the bus right side with 4ft clearance to the right.. Its a hard transition to overcome especially if you have been driving for a long time. If you are the type to learn and to demonstrate what you have learn from the instructor, You will make it all the way. Everybody is different and not everyone will fit for the job.

[stepurgameup]

@lisandrojosh9. I'm going for my 10 day training on Monday. Is there any advice I'm nervous as hell

[Express Bus Operator]

@lisandrojosh9. I'm going for my 10 day training on Monday. Is there any advice I'm nervous as hell

Check your Inbox

[Invzo1019]

Yes....That's because they didn't accomplish the NYCT on the road training qualification. Face it, we all have bad habits when it comes to driving especially if you have years of experience behind the wheel. For a school bus driver or truck driver, they have to adapt the way MTA drives especially making turns and covering the bus right side with 4ft clearance to the right.. Its a hard transition to overcome especially if you have been driving for a long time. If you are the type to learn and to demonstrate what you have learn from the instructor, You will make it all the way. Everybody is different and not everyone will fit for the job.

What do you mean when you say covering the right side win 4 feet of clearance?