B35 via Church Posted June 6, 2013 Share #26 Posted June 6, 2013 One part of the report for the B67 extension really got my goat: The response is a really stupid strawman! Firstly, the B67 extension has way too many turns into a neighborhood with some very narrow streets. The more turns equals eating up more time for the bus to operate the route. Secondly, the MTA really screwed up service on the B67 (and B69) with the service cuts in June 2010. The B67, especially, has very hideous unreliability issues, and it'll only get worse with this extension. It's not a strawman (it's not refuting anything that the comment doesn't suggest), but I do think the response is stupid.... It's implicating that 2 miles isn't "too long".... 2 miles only isn't too long when they want to extend a particular route.... Otherwise, 2 miles would be way too long.... Note their response for extending the B32 (the shortest suggested extension was up to QBP) - all of a sudden, the funding for the route limits the distance.... Yeah, I bet it does..... As far as your rebuttal, I agree... Stating that the extension is 2 miles totally ignores the amt. of (narrow) turns buses would have to make with the extended route, which will add significantly more runtime to the route... I don't know what the speed limit inside the navy yard is either, but I bet buses will be crawling once inside the place.... It also ignores what the 67 currently has to put up with (at times) along 7th, along flatbush, and along livingston..... Does anyone have the pdf for the B84 approval? Sure: Transit & Bus Committee Meeting - April 2013 (pages 7.17 - 7.24) I should comment on the comments/responses; there's quite a bit of 'em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 6, 2013 Share #27 Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 7, 2013 Share #28 Posted June 7, 2013 As far as your rebuttal, I agree... Stating that the extension is 2 miles totally ignores the amt. of (narrow) turns buses would have to make with the extended route, which will add significantly more runtime to the route... I don't know what the speed limit inside the navy yard is either, but I bet buses will be crawling once inside the place.... It also ignores what the 67 currently has to put up with (at times) along 7th, along flatbush, and along livingston..... Exactly. Plus, like you said (or implied), 2 miles isn't even that short a distance with any route. I mean that's 40 Manhattan blocks! (On a north-south street). I remember BrooklynBus saying that the average distance a passenger spends on a bus is about 2 miles. It was basically just a response where they're hoping nobody notices that they didn't actually answer the question/concern. If somebody brings it up, they'll probably just say "Well, we didn't explicitly say 2 miles isn't too long. We just said the extension is 2 miles". If it was something like 0.25 miles or 0.5 miles, then maybe that would suffice for an answer (if they included some mention about traffic), but not for a 2 mile extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petabread Posted June 7, 2013 Share #29 Posted June 7, 2013 The q64 travels 2.5 miles in 15 minutes, there is some perspective there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 7, 2013 Share #30 Posted June 7, 2013 The q64 travels 2.5 miles in 15 minutes, there is some perspective there. Perhaps.... but the Q64 is its own route though. The Q64 traveling the short distance it does from end to end is rather efficient.... The B67 two mile extension b/w Jay/Sands & the Brooklyn Navy Yard will be anything but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounad Hanhic Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share #31 Posted June 7, 2013 Jewel Avenue does not have as much traffic as many other roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 7, 2013 Share #32 Posted June 7, 2013 Perhaps.... but the Q64 is its own route though. The Q64 traveling the short distance it does from end to end is rather efficient.... The B67 two mile extension b/w Jay/Sands & the Brooklyn Navy Yard will be anything but.... This is why either the 32 should serve Navy Yard or the 69 and not even create the 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted June 7, 2013 Share #33 Posted June 7, 2013 I say let the 32 do it. They (transit) considers the 67/69 as one route (half the time you get down to Kensington as one route and come back up as the other), and this extension looks like its gonna destroy the 67 with its already crappy headways, and indirectly affect the 69 ...unless they get counted as separate routes again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charles Posted June 8, 2013 Share #34 Posted June 8, 2013 The q64 travels 2.5 miles in 15 minutes, there is some perspective there. Pretty bad analogy to the streets of Downtown Brooklyn & the Navy Yard -- Jewel Av is a major thoroughfare while you're dealing with much narrower streets that the 67 has to go through. Jewel Avenue does not have as much traffic as many other roads. Ever since the DOT did the stupid lane change at the Van Wyck intersection, traffic has gotten considerably worse on that stretch of road. 64s would fly on the portion between the GCP and the Van Wyck, but it's no longer the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 8, 2013 Share #35 Posted June 8, 2013 I do...want a cookie I say let the 32 do it. They (transit) considers the 67/69 as one route (half the time you get down to Kensington as one route and come back up as the other), and this extension looks like its gonna destroy the 67 with its already crappy headways, and indirectly affect the 69 ...unless they get counted as separate routes again funny I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted June 8, 2013 Share #36 Posted June 8, 2013 funny I agree with this. Would you like a cookie for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted June 8, 2013 Share #37 Posted June 8, 2013 * There will be a double transfer with the Q29-Q33-M60/Q72. I would rather get rid of all transfer privileges in favor of a fixed-time pass. One dip or swipe would provide unlimited use of the "base" system (local bus, subway, S. I. Railway), including round trips, for some fixed amount of time, say 2.5 or 3 hours. The duration could even vary by time of day or day of week — e.g. 3 hours during weekday peak and base periods, 4 hours on weekends, or 5 hours overnight (0000 to 0500). This would have to be easier to program than a complicated from-route-to-route matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petabread Posted June 8, 2013 Share #38 Posted June 8, 2013 Pretty bad analogy to the streets of Downtown Brooklyn & the Navy Yard -- Jewel Av is a major thoroughfare while you're dealing with much narrower streets that the 67 has to go through. Ever since the DOT did the stupid lane change at the Van Wyck intersection, traffic has gotten considerably worse on that stretch of road. 64s would fly on the portion between the GCP and the Van Wyck, but it's no longer the case. Any bus traveling through Jamaica or flushing do 2 miles in and around 15 mins. The MTAs reaction is just that, 2 miles isn't a big deal. I'll admit I don't know that area, especially the navy yards as well but the last 10 times I've been to downtown Brooklyn, traffic was far less congested than that of Jamaica ave near Sutphin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 9, 2013 Share #39 Posted June 9, 2013 Any bus traveling through Jamaica or flushing do 2 miles in and around 15 mins. The MTAs reaction is just that, 2 miles isn't a big deal. I'll admit I don't know that area, especially the navy yards as well but the last 10 times I've been to downtown Brooklyn, traffic was far less congested than that of Jamaica ave near Sutphin. Two miles isn't a big deal when it suits them. The current WB Bx46 terminal is about 1.7 miles from Yankee Stadium, but suddenly, they couldn't find the money for that last stretch along 163rd Street, even though it would boost ridership tremendously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 9, 2013 Share #40 Posted June 9, 2013 I would rather get rid of all transfer privileges in favor of a fixed-time pass. One dip or swipe would provide unlimited use of the "base" system (local bus, subway, S. I. Railway), including round trips, for some fixed amount of time, say 2.5 or 3 hours. The duration could even vary by time of day or day of week — e.g. 3 hours during weekday peak and base periods, 4 hours on weekends, or 5 hours overnight (0000 to 0500). This would have to be easier to program than a complicated from-route-to-route matrix. like WMATA EHH? I see not gonna lie that would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted June 9, 2013 Share #41 Posted June 9, 2013 Two miles isn't a big deal when it suits them. The current WB Bx46 terminal is about 1.7 miles from Yankee Stadium, but suddenly, they couldn't find the money for that last stretch along 163rd Street, even though it would boost ridership tremendously? The Bx46 desperately needs a route extension because its current route is not picking up many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 9, 2013 Share #42 Posted June 9, 2013 The Bx46 desperately needs a route extension because its current route is not picking up many people. okay wow. your right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 9, 2013 Share #43 Posted June 9, 2013 Would you like a cookie for that... knew that was comin..... was waiting for you to flip that back around on him..... Any bus traveling through Jamaica or flushing do 2 miles in and around 15 mins. The MTAs reaction is just that, 2 miles isn't a big deal. I'll admit I don't know that area, especially the navy yards as well but the last 10 times I've been to downtown Brooklyn, traffic was far less congested than that of Jamaica ave near Sutphin. Yeah, and it's looking like you agree with their reaction.... Two miles isn't a big deal when it suits them. The current WB Bx46 terminal is about 1.7 miles from Yankee Stadium, but suddenly, they couldn't find the money for that last stretch along 163rd Street, even though it would boost ridership tremendously? As BrooklynBus said, they do what they want... Or, the way I put it, they justify what they want with their *my d**k is bigger than yours* type of responses.....They allocate funds how they want & they'd be damned if they're gonna have, you know, the very people some said route would serve, tell em any different (indirectly) with any suggestions..... Sucks to say, but they're not in it for the public's best interest (even though it's public transportation).... The meetings are nothing more than public vent fests... Their minds are made up long before the setting-up of any of these meetings take place..... The Bx46 desperately needs a route extension because its current route is not picking up many people. Even though it's only been 2 months, I still happen to concur with you.... But I won't hold my breath for it to actually happen though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 9, 2013 Share #44 Posted June 9, 2013 Well as for the Bx46 thing, It will take several more months for it to pick up. The summers coming, so I don't I ow how it will affect the ridership, so maybe in the winter or fall we could actually analyze the path the Bx46 is taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted June 9, 2013 Share #45 Posted June 9, 2013 Well as for the Bx46 thing, It will take several more months for it to pick up. The summers coming, so I don't I ow how it will affect the ridership, so maybe in the winter or fall we could actually analyze the path the Bx46 is taking. But the area that the Bx46 serves is dead. The only area that would ride the bus is the portion after the highway it passes and even that's not a long distance to the subway station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 9, 2013 Share #46 Posted June 9, 2013 Well as for the Bx46 thing, It will take several more months for it to pick up. The summers coming, so I don't I ow how it will affect the ridership, so maybe in the winter or fall we could actually analyze the path the Bx46 is taking.Maybe some ridership will pick up since it serves Baretto Point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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