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RestrictOnTheHanger

Montague tube to close for more than a year for repairs

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The Metropolitan Transportation Authority plans to close a key subway tunnel linking Brooklyn and Manhattan for at least a year, bowing to the need for a prolonged outage to repair lingering damage from superstorm Sandy, an MTA official said. The closure of the Montague tube, which carries the (R) train beneath the mouth of the East River, is a blow to tens of thousands of daily riders who commute on the (R) from southern Brooklyn. Work on the Montague tube will likely begin in August, and is expected to last 12 to 14 months, the official said. It is the biggest post-Sandy setback for the (MTA), which has drawn high marks for the speed with which subway service was restored after the Oct. 29 storm. It may not be the last.

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I'm guessing they will do / have done some work on the other tubes on nights/weekends since they weren't as badly damaged. We've already seen the late night (2) / (5) swap, closure of the 14th st tube, the usual (7) shutdowns, and the 53rd/63rd reroutes. Anyone correct me if I'm guessing wrong

Edited by RestrictOnTheHanger

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They really have to do this, I hate to say it as someone who lives downtown part of the week and uses the (R) frequently but it needs whatever repairs it has to get. Aside from all the random times there were "signal problems" in the tunnel, this weekend really proved there were problems with it with all 3 Broadway lines going through it. Absolute mess, almost an hour to get back from Atlantic to Cortlandt on the (Q), folks coming from CI were NOT happy (apparently it caused problems all the way down the Brighton line and it took them 3 HOURS to get to Atlantic). Glad this is happening, but they better provide enough service on the (4)(5) across the river, it was bad enough after Sandy. That means no more (5) shutdowns every weekend and hopefully weekend (5) service to the nearest possible terminal in Brooklyn.

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As I would handle this:

 

(R) becomes Court Street-95th Street ONLY, but also runs that way at all times.

 

(N) runs over the bridge at all times. Rush hours (in the peak direction ONLY) and late nights (both directions), (N) runs local between Pacific Street and 59th Street.

 

(Q) is unaffected.

 

(W) returns and replaces the (R) in Manhattan between Whitehall Street and 71st-Continental, except overnights. Overnights, there is no service between the "tunnel" level of Canal Street and Whitehall Street (the entrance at the "tunnel" level of Canal remains open only in the immediate fare control areas during these times, City Hall, Courtlandt Street, Rector and Whitehall Streets are closed during this time). This part is renamed (W) to keep people in Brooklyn (especially Bay Ridge) happy, plus there was a (W) that began at Whitehall for several years through June 2010.

 

(4) runs as it normally does.

 

(5) runs to Flatbush Avenue at all times except overnights.

 

(6) is extended to Atlantic Avenue late nights, using the center platform at Atlantic Avenue to turn. This would be done mainly to appease pols who otherwise might be upset as the (6) extension in late nights would be done to compensate for the lack of service on the Broadway line at that time.

 

Having the (4) and (6) in the overnights going to Atlantic Avenue would allow for much easier transfers between the Lexington and Broadway lines for Brooklyn passengers since they would be able to transfer to the (R) at both Court Street and Atlantic Avenue for those south of Canal who need such (and that number has likely increased as lower Manhattan has gotten more back to normal post-Sandy).

 

This to me makes the best of a bad situation.

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Guest Lance

@Wallyhorse: No. You're over-complicating things again. There's no need for the northern section to renamed anything. People figured out how the split (R) was running during the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy. They'll manage again. Rather than sending the (5) to Flatbush, it would make more sense to add more (4) trains to make up for the lack of (R) service in lower Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn. Bringing the (6) to Brooklyn is just overkill.

 

@Joel Up Front: The other tunnels were not affected as badly as the Montague tubes.

 

Regarding this situation in general, both the Joralemon tubes and the Manhattan Bridge south tracks will have to remain open through the duration of the Montague closure.

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the one thing i cant understand, even tho i am no expert in how their electrical stuff work down there, why cant they shut one tube down and the other can be used. The wall is so thick that it wont slow down the worker or train. Could that work?

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@Lance:

The (6) to Atlantic Avenue would be overnights only.  I would have the (6) (and the (5) at all times other than overnights) run to Brooklyn in order to compensate for the loss of the Montague tunnel and especially in the case of the (6) as noted to keep pols happy.  The re-naming of the Manhattan branch of the (R) to (W) is because this change will be for a year or more unlike in the immediate period after Sandy. 

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@Lance:

 

The (6) to Atlantic Avenue would be overnights only.  I would have the (6) (and the (5) at all times other than overnights) run to Brooklyn in order to compensate for the loss of the Montague tunnel and especially in the case of the (6) as noted to keep pols happy.  The re-naming of the Manhattan branch of the (R) to (W) is because this change will be for a year or more unlike in the immediate period after Sandy. 

  The (4) can handle the crowds with some adjusments during the late night. No need to extend the (6) to Brooklyn.

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 The re-naming of the Manhattan branch of the (R) to (W) is because this change will be for a year or more unlike in the immediate period after Sandy. 

...... still a useless proposal than what Christine Quinn was thinking....

Edited by Metro CSW
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Man, as soon as I saw a post from Wallyhorse, I knew there was going to be some crazy chit coming. I'm surprised there was no mention of something running to the inner loop in that post! Okay, I hate to humor you, but I gotta ask - how is calling it the (W) in Manhattan going to make the BROOKLYN customers HAPPY????

 

BTW - the Newtown Creek project is supposed to start as weekends only, but eventually there is gonna be a 24/7 closure when they start gutting the walls, as that's going to be a repair job that they can't quickly restore service to by 5am every Monday. I can't wait to hear the groveling from the hipsters once that phase starts!

Edited by Snowblock
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the one thing i cant understand, even tho i am no expert in how their electrical stuff work down there, why cant they shut one tube down and the other can be used. The wall is so thick that it wont slow down the worker or train. Could that work?

 

Capacity. You can't run trains more than one every 20 minutes that way, which is way less than any of those lines can handle during the day. Even on the (G) they tried doing 8 car trains every 20 minutes when they got the first tube open and that was a disaster, and will mess up service for the rest of the line.

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This will be a service increase in the overnight hours (with additional transfers to 2, 4, F and A trains) and offer a one-seat ride to Midtown via the Manhattan Bridge for weekend users.  I hope they keep the same 10 minute schedule as before on weekends, since weekend R trains are timed to *exactly* meet the N at 59th and D at 36th.

 

However I'm concerned with the reduced 10 minute headways during weekday rush-hours that led to massive overcrowding on trains and at the Atlantic Ave transfer point.  If they could keep the 6 minute headways (or even 8 minute headways) during rush-hours, that would greatly ease overcrowding.  I'm sure they don't need a full 10 minutes to turn a train around at Court St.  (Can't send these R rush-hour trains over the bridge since there is always massive congestion on the D and N tracks where trains come to a stop multiple times between 36th and Atlantic.)

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@Wallyhorse: No. You're over-complicating things again. There's no need for the northern section to renamed anything. People figured out how the split (R) was running during the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy. They'll manage again. Rather than sending the (5) to Flatbush, it would make more sense to add more (4) trains to make up for the lack of (R) service in lower Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn. Bringing the (6) to Brooklyn is just overkill.

 

@Joel Up Front: The other tunnels were not affected as badly as the Montague tubes.

 

Regarding this situation in general, both the Joralemon tubes and the Manhattan Bridge south tracks will have to remain open through the duration of the Montague closure.

I agree with your assessment, but isn't the (4)(5) already at capacity particularly at rush hour??

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Man, so much unneeded speculation. The (R) will run in two sections during the week (BOTH called the (R) ), and via the bridge on weekends. END OF STORY.

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The (W) is not coming back! Stop foaming!

 

You got a chance of the (W) coming back when the SAS opens and the (Q) is routed to it, but until then there will be NO (W). (R) trains will run in 2 sections as Snowblock said.

 

We could be seeing CI cars on the lower portion though.

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Its too bad the South side of the Manny B. doesn't have a connection to Nassau St anymore. The <R> could have made a comeback from 95 to Broad via the Bridge :P

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EDIT: never mind i found my info looking for  and the mta already has the page up 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/R_14monthMontagueTunnelClosure.htm

 

also the (G) has its page on the website but the mta also titled it for the R 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/G_GreenpointTunnelWeekendClosure.htm

Edited by BreeddekalbL
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The (W) is not coming back! Stop foaming!

 

You got a chance of the (W) coming back when the SAS opens and the (Q) is routed to it, but until then there will be NO (W). (R) trains will run in 2 sections as Snowblock said.

 

We could be seeing CI cars on the lower portion though.

You can't say "stop foaming" and tell us we could see R68/ R68a (R) trains, which would cause even more foaming than the return of the (W)

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You can't say "stop foaming" and tell us we could see R68/ R68a (R) trains, which would cause even more foaming than the return of the (W)

I said stop foaming over the (W).

 

If anything they will be R160s which have ran the (R) many times.

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I said stop foaming over the (W).

 

If anything they will be R160s which have ran the (R) many times.

I thought the MTA is short on R160 cars (only 10% in reserve), and they had more R68/R68a cars in reserve

Edited by 8thAveExpress

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I was not foaming over the (W) or anything else.  The way I would have done it (with the Manhattan/Queens branch of the (R) becoming (W) while the Brooklyn (R) went to Court Street at all times) while the (5) went to Brooklyn all times aside from overnights and the (6) extended to Atlantic Avenue overnights among other things) had everything to do with pleasing pols who might otherwise get upset.  I would not be surprised if pols in downtown Brooklyn make demands that Jay Street-Metrotech and Court Street receive (R) service at all times in order to keep transfers at those stations in order.

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LOL... I think this WallyHorse guy is hilarious.  The only time he posts is when there are train diversions and then he comes up with all of these fantasy routes.  :lol:

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