Montague tube to close for more than a year for repairs

[realizm]

what does A have to do with B..?

 

Apparenty the discussion at this point has to do with how the change in service will affect service patterns of trains on other routes utilizing the the 4th Ave BMT and the IND QBL as well as the Manny B.

[Abba]

I was wondering in the last 2 weeks I haven't seen much of the R line problems show up on the MTA website.Is it possible the MTA is rethinking the R line shutdown and maybe shortening the length of time to do it.Its also not on the weekender this week either.

[Guest Lance]

I wouldn't read too much into the lack of disruptions in the Montague. The work still needs to be done and the contracts have already been signed and agreed upon. Besides, the next few weekends pushes the to the bridge in one way or another.

[CenSin]

I'd say the 63rd Street line as they were doing during sceduled track maintainance etc. or impromptu reroutes due to emergencies and unexpected delays along with similar patterns (although via B'Way and 63rd to the QBL during sceduled maintainance on the 60th St tunnel) on the past weekend GO's. I can't exactly recall the last time planners decided to run the to the QBL via the 53rd St tubes, it must be for a good reason that cannot come to my mind right now as I write this.

 

Can't be because of capacity issues for obvious reasons.

The 63 Street corridor is a better alternative to 59 Street than 53 Street. There's 57 Street, which matches up with 57 Street–7 Avenue and 5 Avenue equally. There's Lexington Avenue–59 Street which is considered close enough to Lexington Avenue–63 Street that the MTA created a free transfer between those stations.

[realizm]

The 63 Street corridor is a better alternative to 59 Street than 53 Street. There's 57 Street, which matches up with 57 Street–7 Avenue and 5 Avenue equally. There's Lexington Avenue–59 Street which is considered close enough to Lexington Avenue–63 Street that the MTA created a free transfer between those stations.

 

Agreed on the point made on 57th Street on 6th and the parallel 59th St stations along the BMT 60th St line from B'way. This makes sense to me.

 

But the catch to the out of station transfer @ 63rd/Lex  is the long ascent from deep underground up to street level from 63rd Street/Lex, with a few blocks of walking to boot, to the destination @ 59th on the IRT/BMT which many straphangers do find as undesirable as compared to the in-station walk upstairs from 53rd Street on the IND 53rd Street corridor to the IRT station. They therefore would rather utilize the BMT station to the Lex or the IND station on the 53rd Street corridor to the IRT Lexington Ave line with counterproductive results.

 

My opinion? They needed to construct a transfer from the 63rd St line to the IRT but neglected to do so, copping out with this out fd station transfer. Big oversight on the part of the MTA. Particularly after the early 20th century when the SAS connection at this station was finalized. Perhaps because they did not want to deal with construction in a busy area and difficulties from legalistic problems in terms of property acquisition? I honestly don't know, but still I would say it should have been built. If it was indeed built it would do wonders on the congestion problems today seen on the 53rd St corridor. In fact I am unsure if CBTC will completely solve the problems on that section of that IND line even as it will make a dramatic difference on the IND QBL overall I'm sure.

[bobtehpanda]

Agreed on the point made on 57th Street on 6th and the parallel 59th St stations along the BMT 60th St line from B'way. This makes sense to me.

 

But the catch to the out of station transfer @ 63rd/Lex  is the long ascent from deep underground up to street level from 63rd Street/Lex, with a few blocks of walking to boot, to the destination @ 59th on the IRT/BMT which many straphangers do find as undesirable as compared to the in-station walk upstairs from 53rd Street on the IND 53rd Street corridor to the IRT station. They therefore would rather utilize the BMT station to the Lex or the IND station on the 53rd Street corridor to the IRT Lexington Ave line with counterproductive results.

 

My opinion? They needed to construct a transfer from the 63rd St line to the IRT but neglected to do so, copping out with this out fd station transfer. Big oversight on the part of the MTA. Particularly after the early 20th century when the SAS connection at this station was finalized. Perhaps because they did not want to deal with construction in a busy area and difficulties from legalistic problems in terms of property acquisition? I honestly don't know, but still I would say it should have been built. If it was indeed built it would do wonders on the congestion problems today seen on the 53rd St corridor. In fact I am unsure if CBTC will completely solve the problems on that section of that IND line even as it will make a dramatic difference on the IND QBL overall I'm sure.

Unfumiliar with the layout of the 59th st station, but the MTA could theoretically build a passageway between the station mezzanines at least. It would be sillu for Astoria residents to not have an SAS connection, particcularly when the area is booming.

[Guest Lance]

Building a transfer between the two Lexington Av stations would've been a nightmare for all involved. That's a four-block passageway we're talking about here. One that would have to run down either Lexington Ave or 3rd Ave.

[bobtehpanda]

Building a transfer between the two Lexington Av stations would've been a nightmare for all involved. That's a four-block passageway we're talking about here. One that would have to run down either Lexington Ave or 3rd Ave.

 

Hence "theoretical".

 

Con Ed eventually has to rip up the road and figure out where its pipes are (and maintain them, but they don't even know where the pipes are in the first place), so when that happens, one could just happen to throw in a passageway as well. It's not like it would make the work take any longer, given the mess that Chambers St is right now.

[RtrainBlues]

I can't wait for the R tunnel to get shut down so we can finally get more reliable service to Bay Ridge.  There are always HUGE gaps in service on Bay-Ridge bound R trains at 36th and 59th St, Brooklyn.  Half-hour waits are becoming commonplace.  All we need is a train that runs between downtown Brooklyn and 95th on a reliable headway.  This afternoon was yet another winner, with almost a half-hour delay to Bay Ridge, while 4 N trains came to Coney Island during that time period. 

 

Why anyone would choose to take an R train to lower Manhattan is beyond me, if they have access to a #2, #3, #4, #5, A, or C train.  Those trains are much more reliable and much faster-moving.  Even if I'm already on an uptown R train and I need to get to lower Manhattan, it's much faster for me to get off the R train, take a D or N express to Atlantic, then transfer again to a #2, 3, 4 or 5.  I've timed it and it's significantly faster to take three trains, than to stay on the R train I'm already on.

[RollOver]

I can't wait for the R tunnel to get shut down so we can finally get more reliable service to Bay Ridge.  There are always HUGE gaps in service on Bay-Ridge bound R trains at 36th and 59th St, Brooklyn.  Half-hour waits are becoming commonplace.  All we need is a train that runs between downtown Brooklyn and 95th on a reliable headway.  This afternoon was yet another winner, with almost a half-hour delay to Bay Ridge, while 4 N trains came to Coney Island during that time period. 

 

Why anyone would choose to take an R train to lower Manhattan is beyond me, if they have access to a #2, #3, #4, #5, A, or C train.  Those trains are much more reliable and much faster-moving.  Even if I'm already on an uptown R train and I need to get to lower Manhattan, it's much faster for me to get off the R train, take a D or N express to Atlantic, then transfer again to a #2, 3, 4 or 5.  I've timed it and it's significantly faster to take three trains, than to stay on the R train I'm already on.

 

I do agree with you except the parts where you transfer from the to the or and then the other lines to Lower Manhattan. On that part of your sentence, I recommend you stay on your in order to keep your seat and enjoy the ride than to get off at a 4th Avenue express stop at 59th or 36th and get in the crowds of the and as well as the other lines you mention that travel through Lower Manhattan.

 

If only the was removed from the Astoria Line and they add more service to the three BMT Broadway Line trains should the be a bit better and reliable than it is now. As long as the headway is six to eight minutes at rush hour and eight to ten minutes off-peak, I don't see a problem of capacity issues occurring over the Manhattan Bridge and the DeKalb Avenue junction. Oh, and the 60th Street tube.

 

The is better off originating/terminating at 57th Street-7th Avenue and skipping 49th Street IMO. The can stay the way it is now.

[Roadcruiser1]

I do agree with you except the parts where you transfer from the to the or and then the other lines to Lower Manhattan. On that part of your sentence, I recommend you stay on your in order to keep your seat and enjoy the ride than to get off at a 4th Avenue express stop at 59th or 36th and get in the crowds of the and as well as the other lines you mention that travel through Lower Manhattan.

 

If only the was removed from the Astoria Line and they add more service to the three BMT Broadway Line trains should the be a bit better and reliable than it is now. As long as the headway is six to eight minutes at rush hour and eight to ten minutes off-peak, I don't see a problem of capacity issues occurring over the Manhattan Bridge and the DeKalb Avenue junction. Oh, and the 60th Street tube.

 

The is better off originating/terminating at 57th Street-7th Avenue and skipping 49th Street IMO. The can stay the way it is now.

 

It won't really work. The Astoria Line is extremely busy and usually requires 2 services to handle that Line. Before the went there it was the . The only went to Astoria after the was removed. So there is no other option but to drill a new tunnel underneath the East River and redirecting the  into the new tunnel. It really isn't a bad idea since the 60th Street Tunnel is very close to overcapacity since 2 tracks can usually only handle 2 services at best (15 TPH per service).

[Eric B]

I can't wait for the R tunnel to get shut down so we can finally get more reliable service to Bay Ridge.  There are always HUGE gaps in service on Bay-Ridge bound R trains at 36th and 59th St, Brooklyn.  Half-hour waits are becoming commonplace.  All we need is a train that runs between downtown Brooklyn and 95th on a reliable headway.  This afternoon was yet another winner, with almost a half-hour delay to Bay Ridge, while 4 N trains came to Coney Island during that time period. 

 

Why anyone would choose to take an R train to lower Manhattan is beyond me, if they have access to a #2, #3, #4, #5, A, or C train.  Those trains are much more reliable and much faster-moving.  Even if I'm already on an uptown R train and I need to get to lower Manhattan, it's much faster for me to get off the R train, take a D or N express to Atlantic, then transfer again to a #2, 3, 4 or 5.  I've timed it and it's significantly faster to take three trains, than to stay on the R train I'm already on.

I don't know; but from what I saw in the Sandy shutdown, the service on that end was horrible. Long waits. Like they figured not as many people were riding, and ran less service.

 

Perhaps it was because of the relay dropping out at Lawrence instead of Court, but this time they will just use the two pockets at Court, thankfully.

[RtrainBlues]

The R can't get much worse than it already is.  I can list numerous times during the past 4 weeks where there have been waits of 25 to 30 minutes for a Bay Ridge R train at 59th St (Bklyn).  These have happened at various times: mid-day weekdays, rush-hour evenings, mid-evening weekdays, weekend afternoons, etc.  Most recent happened this afternoon, when the Bay Ridge R didn't show up until 3:45pm after 4 N trains had passed and there was an overflowing crowd at 59th St Bklyn.

 

Every day during the shutdown, I was extremely pleased with the R service.  It actually came on a reliable schedule - imagine that!  (The only problem was the rush-hour headways were 10 minutes which caused lots of congestion.  With rush-hour shuttle headways at 7.5 minutes, this problem will no longer occur.  I think Bay Ridge residents are going to really like this shuttle when they realize it means no more 30 minute waits at 59th Street for a train.)

[tripleeye49]

I agree with most of you that the should be running from Court Street to Bay Ridge at all times.  That simplifies a lot of things as far as Brooklyn to Manhattan connections, and the 4th Avenue Local scenario.  With running the R to Court Street, you can have the other trains run express at night.

 

Now in Queens and Manhattan:

 

I believe the MTA should also keep the services split at all times.  However there are several weekends in which the R train would have to run up the 6th Avenue Line anyways, and the especially during the summertime needs to be shutdown.  We had a weekend recently when the R train ran up 6th Avenue, and the J train ran in place of the to Metropolitan Avenue.  In think, in such scenarios, it is better to simply run the R train to Court Street, and have the M train run in place of the J train in Brooklyn, and the R train in Queens to Forest Hills.

 

I would have two scenarios instead of having a Queens / Manhattan branch of the R train, in light of the MTA extending the on weekends to Essex Street:

 

Scenario 1:

 

The M train would be extended to run at all times to Forest Hills during R train shutdowns. 

 

Local service would be heavily beefed up and some trains would run to Whitehall Street during the week.  On weekends service on the 2, 3, 4, 5, A, C trains can handle lower Manhattan.

 

Express service would be rerouted / extended to Forest Hills weekdays.  Take the train to 34th Street / 6th Avenue for Broadway Line service on weekends.  Weekend service would remain at 57th/7th.

 

Lexington Avenue Express service would be increased to serve the area better.

 

Scenario 2:

 

The would be beefed up and extended to run at all times (except nights) to Forest Hills during train shutdowns.  The train would run express as usual in Manhattan.

 

 

Local service would be beefed up and some trains would run to Whitehall Street during the week.  On weekends service on the can handle lower Manhattan.

 

The train would run to Essex/Delancey on Weekends.

 

 

Lexington Avenue Express service would be increased to serve the area better.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

I agree with most of you that the should be running from Court Street to Bay Ridge at all times.  That simplifies a lot of things as far as Brooklyn to Manhattan connections, and the 4th Avenue Local scenario.  With running the R to Court Street, you can have the other trains run express at night.

 

Now in Queens and Manhattan:

 

I believe the MTA should also keep the services split at all times.  However there are several weekends in which the R train would have to run up the 6th Avenue Line anyways, and the especially during the summertime needs to be shutdown.  We had a weekend recently when the R train ran up 6th Avenue, and the J train ran in place of the to Metropolitan Avenue.  In think, in such scenarios, it is better to simply run the R train to Court Street, and have the M train run in place of the J train in Brooklyn, and the R train in Queens to Forest Hills.

 

I would have two scenarios instead of having a Queens / Manhattan branch of the R train, in light of the MTA extending the on weekends to Essex Street:

 

Scenario 1:

 

The M train would be extended to run at all times to Forest Hills during R train shutdowns. 

 

Local service would be heavily beefed up and some trains would run to Whitehall Street during the week.  On weekends service on the 2, 3, 4, 5, A, C trains can handle lower Manhattan.

 

Express service would be rerouted / extended to Forest Hills weekdays.  Take the train to 34th Street / 6th Avenue for Broadway Line service on weekends.  Weekend service would remain at 57th/7th.

 

Lexington Avenue Express service would be increased to serve the area better.

 

Scenario 2:

 

The would be beefed up and extended to run at all times (except nights) to Forest Hills during train shutdowns.  The train would run express as usual in Manhattan.

 

 

Local service would be beefed up and some trains would run to Whitehall Street during the week.  On weekends service on the can handle lower Manhattan.

 

The train would run to Essex/Delancey on Weekends.

 

 

Lexington Avenue Express service would be increased to serve the area better.

I disagree with the to Forest Hills because QBL has more than enough lines to handle and Astoria needs the train in order to help out the train. Besides, the is still going to Forest Hills during the Montague St Tube closure. In Lexington, there are WAY too many trains running over there, especially during rush hours so adding even more trains will cause major delays. Also, the Manhattan Bridge can't handle too many and trains which can lead to delays.

[Around the Horn]

I agree with most of you that the should be running from Court Street to Bay Ridge at all times.  That simplifies a lot of things as far as Brooklyn to Manhattan connections, and the 4th Avenue Local scenario.  With running the R to Court Street, you can have the other trains run express at night.

 

Now in Queens and Manhattan:

 

I believe the MTA should also keep the services split at all times.  However there are several weekends in which the R train would have to run up the 6th Avenue Line anyways, and the especially during the summertime needs to be shutdown.  We had a weekend recently when the R train ran up 6th Avenue, and the J train ran in place of the to Metropolitan Avenue.  In think, in such scenarios, it is better to simply run the R train to Court Street, and have the M train run in place of the J train in Brooklyn, and the R train in Queens to Forest Hills.

 

I would have two scenarios instead of having a Queens / Manhattan branch of the R train, in light of the MTA extending the on weekends to Essex Street:

 

Scenario 1:

 

The M train would be extended to run at all times to Forest Hills during R train shutdowns. 

 

Local service would be heavily beefed up and some trains would run to Whitehall Street during the week.  On weekends service on the 2, 3, 4, 5, A, C trains can handle lower Manhattan.

 

Express service would be rerouted / extended to Forest Hills weekdays.  Take the train to 34th Street / 6th Avenue for Broadway Line service on weekends.  Weekend service would remain at 57th/7th.

 

Lexington Avenue Express service would be increased to serve the area better.

 

Scenario 2:

 

The would be beefed up and extended to run at all times (except nights) to Forest Hills during train shutdowns.  The train would run express as usual in Manhattan.

 

 

Local service would be beefed up and some trains would run to Whitehall Street during the week.  On weekends service on the can handle lower Manhattan.

 

The train would run to Essex/Delancey on Weekends.

 

 

Lexington Avenue Express service would be increased to serve the area better.

I agree with every thing except the Lex and   ideas

[Abba]

Is the project being postponed for a little? Don't see anything in the service detours about it.