Montague St Tunnel Closure - Exp. Bus Service Restorations & Increases Requested

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The X27/X37 dont get two rider per bus off-peak. I usually see a good 7-9 people load on the X27 in the high 40's on a Sunday, and that's just the tipping point, so there obviously would be more. Not too sure about those midday trips, but I'm pretty sure they garner more than two riders.

Well it just goes back to the ignorance of some folks on here.  Every express bus is empty and carries no one. How are those people getting around if not with the express bus or a car? Are they using donkeys? 

[LTA1992]

Hell yeah it's expensive. Nearly $11.00, f**k that.

It's not expensive. You're just paying the two-way toll in one direction so in a sense, it's the average toll.

 

Paying 15.00 one way is the equivalent to baying 7.50 in each direction. Since they don't charge both ways, charge double in one direction.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm aware of that as well, evidenced by an earlier discussion with Orion Vii 4 Life...

 

to which I replied...

 

Except that for SI residents, it's $6 round-trip, not $11. That comes out to $3 each way.

 

So what?  That has nothing to do with those that need to visit their families on Staten Island.  If they're visiting from say Bay Ridge of Dyker Heights, they've got to pay $15.00 unless they have an EZPass, which is preposterous to say the least.

 

Most people have EZ-Pass, so they're paying $11.

 

I'm sure plenty of families go from Queens to The Bronx. Unless they plan on driving all the way down to the Queensborough Bridge and going all the way up through Manhattan (which increases the potential for getting stuck in traffic significantly), they're forced to pay a toll as well.

 

The X28/X38 is 5th out of all NYCT express buses in the system, carrying over 750,000 riders a year, so I can assure you that carries more than two people per bus.   You think the LIRR or MetroNorth always carries hoards of people on every train? Of course not, that doesn't mean you don't provide the service.  That happens on local buses too btw. 

 

At certain periods, it might. Just because it has heavy ridership during rush hour doesn't necessarily mean it has heavy ridership off-peak.

 

I'm not getting into a debate about whether it should or shouldn't run, but I'm just saying that it might not necessarily have strong off-peak ridership (though it's definitely more than 2 people per bus, on average anyway).

[Culver]

Well it just goes back to the ignorance of some folks on here.  Every express bus is empty and carries no one. How are those people getting around if not with the express bus or a car? Are they using donkeys? 

I mentioned specifically X28 weekend service. If it gets ridership, let it run. If it gets the kind of ridership the X25 did, PASS.

[Turbo19]

It's not expensive. You're just paying the two-way toll in one direction so in a sense, it's the average toll.

 

Paying 15.00 one way is the equivalent to baying 7.50 in each direction. Since they don't charge both ways, charge double in one direction.

To me the toll is expensive, no matter the current variation in rates or how it's collected. Anyway, I'd prefer public transit if I was in that scenario.

 

 

Except that for SI residents, it's $6 round-trip, not $11. That comes out to $3 each way.

 

 

Most people have EZ-Pass, so they're paying $11.

 

I'm sure plenty of families go from Queens to The Bronx. Unless they plan on driving all the way down to the Queensborough Bridge and going all the way up through Manhattan (which increases the potential for getting stuck in traffic significantly), they're forced to pay a toll as well.

 

 

At certain periods, it might. Just because it has heavy ridership during rush hour doesn't necessarily mean it has heavy ridership off-peak.

 

I'm not getting into a debate about whether it should or shouldn't run, but I'm just saying that it might not necessarily have strong off-peak ridership (though it's definitely more than 2 people per bus, on average anyway).

As I said, the toll is still expensive in my opinion. If I'm just using an unlimited and using the local bus and ferry my monthly transit budget is much cheaper, and that's just included the toll itself, and not the other additional costs of owning a vehicle. In this case even a express unlimited would still work to my advantage.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Except that for SI residents, it's $6 round-trip, not $11. That comes out to $3 each way.

 

 

Most people have EZ-Pass, so they're paying $11.

I'm not talking about what most people have. I specifically talked about those who DON'T have EZ-Pass and are NOT Staten Island residents. What part of that isn't clear?

 

I'm sure plenty of families go from Queens to The Bronx. Unless they plan on driving all the way down to the Queensborough Bridge and going all the way up through Manhattan (which increases the potential for getting stuck in traffic significantly), they're forced to pay a toll as well.

 

At certain periods, it might. Just because it has heavy ridership during rush hour doesn't necessarily mean it has heavy ridership off-peak. I'm not getting into a debate about whether it should or shouldn't run, but I'm just saying that it might not necessarily have strong off-peak ridership (though it's definitely more than 2 people per bus, on average anyway).

 

-Which still has nothing to do with what I was talking about which was people visiting family on Staten Island.... 

 

-Who ever said that it did?? All I stated was what it carried annually.  The X1 carries over a million passengers and I've been X1's with light loads. Ridership fluctuates and on some lines more than others.  What is so shocking about that that you need to make that point? It's true with all buses, not just express buses.

 

It's not expensive. You're just paying the two-way toll in one direction so in a sense, it's the average toll.

 

Paying 15.00 one way is the equivalent to baying 7.50 in each direction. Since they don't charge both ways, charge double in one direction.

The toll is the highest in the country and the other issue is the rate at which it continues to go up.  In the next few years it is estimated to be about $17.00 and soon after $20.00.  That has a huge impact on a number of things, including things like food prices on Staten Island because the tolls have to be absorbed by someone. Just keep that in mind when you go yacking about it not being that expensive.

 

 

I mentioned specifically X28 weekend service. If it gets ridership, let it run. If it gets the kind of ridership the X25 did, PASS.

The X25 had ridership but suffered due to a number of things.  Things happen.  Every effort should be made to KEEP transportation. Ridership will go up and go down.  You don't cut the service immediately.  That's my point.  Of course you make adjustments, but when you call for cutting service completely as was the case with the X28 weekend service, you leave people stranded.  Now you may think that people have options but each person has their own issues and what works for them. We live in a city where the majority of residents rely on public transit which is why I don't support cutting service unless it must be cut.  It goes against everything that we as a city need.  It hurts the local economy, hurts the residents and other commuters that rely on it and it takes years to recover from it.  Sheepshead Bay's economy suffered terribly due to the loss of the B4 and it's still suffering.

[VWM]

Smartest thing to do is have an out-of-system transfer between:

South Ferry ( ) and eventually again

Bowling Green

 

and here's the best part... you don't have to get rid of it...

[bobtehpanda]

It's not expensive. You're just paying the two-way toll in one direction so in a sense, it's the average toll.

 

Paying 15.00 one way is the equivalent to baying 7.50 in each direction. Since they don't charge both ways, charge double in one direction.

 

If I remember correctly, a while ago residents made a big fuss about removing one of the tolls because it caused traffic backups, and the MTA eventually obliged. This isn't an issue now with the gateless tolling on the Henry Hudson (why hasn't that caught on anywhere else?) but the toll charges people coming in to Staten Island, probably for a reason.

 

Coincidentally, this was the same time congestion on the East River Bridges, Downtown Brooklyn, and Lower Manhattan increased by a lot, since you could head east without paying a toll on the Verrazano, and head west without paying a toll on the East River bridges and the PA tunnels.

 

To me the toll is expensive, no matter the current variation in rates or how it's collected. Anyway, I'd prefer public transit if I was in that scenario.

 

 

As I said, the toll is still expensive in my opinion. If I'm just using an unlimited and using the local bus and ferry my monthly transit budget is much cheaper, and that's just included the toll itself, and not the other additional costs of owning a vehicle. In this case even a express unlimited would still work to my advantage.

 

 

I mean, a big part of it is the fact that the bridge has higher maintenance costs than the rest of em, simply because it's still one of the longest suspension bridges in the world, and because it's the official designated truck route going south from the city. (A lot of them shortcut using the Lincoln Tunnel, but that's something that no one likes to talk about because the only solution would be to switch the direction of the tolls on either the Verrazano or the Port Authority.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If I remember correctly, a while ago residents made a big fuss about removing one of the tolls because it caused traffic backups, and the MTA eventually obliged. This isn't an issue now with the gateless tolling on the Henry Hudson (why hasn't that caught on anywhere else?) but the toll charges people coming in to Staten Island, probably for a reason.

 

Coincidentally, this was the same time congestion on the East River Bridges, Downtown Brooklyn, and Lower Manhattan increased by a lot, since you could head east without paying a toll on the Verrazano, and head west without paying a toll on the East River bridges and the PA tunnels.

 

 

I mean, a big part of it is the fact that the bridge has higher maintenance costs than the rest of em, simply because it's still one of the longest suspension bridges in the world, and because it's the official designated truck route going south from the city. (A lot of them shortcut using the Lincoln Tunnel, but that's something that no one likes to talk about because the only solution would be to switch the direction of the tolls on either the Verrazano or the Port Authority.)

Oh please... That bridge has been paid for several times over.  That is not the reason why.... I can assure you that all of the money being collected for tolls is not back into that bridge.

 

As for the Henry Hudson Bridge, that one was chosen because it sees light traffic and would be the easiest to test.  You may see it at other places once they feel that the technology can hold up to the demand that heavy traffic brings.

[LTA1992]

 

The toll is the highest in the country and the other issue is the rate at which it continues to go up.  In the next few years it is estimated to be about $17.00 and soon after $20.00.  That has a huge impact on a number of things, including things like food prices on Staten Island because the tolls have to be absorbed by someone. Just keep that in mind when you go yacking about it not being that expensive.

 

And I would be behind you on this if it was a BI-DIRECTIONAL toll. But it's not. Food prices are always going up. You know it's a problem when someone my age (20) can give stories about how much food used to cost.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And I would be behind you on this if it was a BI-DIRECTIONAL toll. But it's not. Food prices are always going up. You know it's a problem when someone my age (20) can give stories about how much food used to cost.

That's not my point. You will notice that food prices in most Staten Island supermarkets are generally higher... The tolls have a part in that.

[Turbo19]

And I would be behind you on this if it was a BI-DIRECTIONAL toll. But it's not. Food prices are always going up. You know it's a problem when someone my age (20) can give stories about how much food used to cost.

And a bi directional toll is better? Commuters are essentially paying double that one time.

[Culver]

Oh please... That bridge has been paid for several times over.  That is not the reason why.... I can assure you that all of the money being collected for tolls is not back into that bridge.

 

As for the Henry Hudson Bridge, that one was chosen because it sees light traffic and would be the easiest to test.  You may see it at other places once they feel that the technology can hold up to the demand that heavy traffic brings.

You realize they have to do countless repairs on the Verrazano, right?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You realize they have to do countless repairs on the Verrazano, right?

I'm aware of that.  I've lived through plenty of them as a former Staten Island resident, but I'm also not that naïve to believe that all of the monies that's collected is going for the upkeep of the Verrazano.  That's been an argument made by plenty of Staten Islanders for years that they were lied to and told that there would be no toll once that bridge was paid for (this is going back years ago) and now look at it.  It's the highest toll in the U.S.

[Culver]

I'm aware of that.  I've lived through plenty of them as a former Staten Island resident, but I'm also not that naïve to believe that all of the monies that's collected is going for the upkeep of the Verrazano.  That's been an argument made by plenty of Staten Islanders for years that they were lied to and told that there would be no toll once that bridge was paid for (this is going back years ago) and now look at it.  It's the highest toll in the U.S.

You're right. Let's cut the tolls. And the repairs. It's fine. They clearly chipped away at the concrete base just for show as a false flag operation to get people to pay tolls to fix it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're right. Let's cut the tolls. And the repairs. It's fine. They clearly chipped away at the concrete base just for show as a false flag operation to get people to pay tolls to fix it.

They could cut the tolls if they stopped syphoning the monies they get from it to use towards other things like supplementing the LIRR. 

[Turbo19]

You realize they have to do countless repairs on the Verrazano, right?

Those repairs are results of not maintaining the bridge properly for a span of nearly 50 years that only recently ended in the mid 1990's, which coincidentally is when the tolls began to grow more expensive. Make you wonder where the tolls were going before.

 

 

You're right. Let's cut the tolls. And the repairs. It's fine. They clearly chipped away at the concrete base just for show as a false flag operation to get people to pay tolls to fix it.

They did that because at this point there's not much else they could do at this point, other than a full replacement that is, and obviously that's not feasible.

 

 

They could cut the tolls if they stopped siphoning the monies they get from it to use towards other things like supplementing the LIRR. 

Well they dropped Long Island Bus, so that's some money used elsewhere.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those repairs are results of not maintaining the bridge properly for a span of nearly 50 years that only recently ended in the mid 1990's, which coincidentally is when the tolls began to grow more expensive. Make you wonder where the tolls were going before.

 

 

They did that because at this point there's not much else they could do at this point, other than a full replacement that is, and obviously that's not feasible.

 

 

Well they dropped Long Island Bus, so that's some money used elsewhere.

Very good points made...

[Turbo19]

Very good points made...

I thinks it's very accurate.

 

You had the tolls spiking from under $2.00 to $3.00, which they've increased steadily after, and now they've increased by a substantial amount.

[LTA1992]

And a bi directional toll is better? Commuters are essentially paying double that one time.

Are you even listening? By that I meant that if it was bi-Directional, you would not be paying 15.00 one way.

That's not my point. You will notice that food prices in most Staten Island supermarkets are generally higher... The tolls have a part in that.

That's a lie. Because if that was the case, the shopping in my house would be done on the way home from work in Brooklyn. Instead, we go to Stop n' Shop where things are cheap. A 5 minute drive away. If not there, Western Beef. A 5 minute walk away.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's a lie. Because if that was the case, the shopping in my house would be done on the way home from work in Brooklyn. Instead, we go to Stop n' Shop where things are cheap. A 5 minute drive away. If not there, Western Beef. A 5 minute walk away.

No it isn't. You just happen to purchase items from a particular supermaket that haven't raised their prices drastically, but whether or not you realize it, you live on an island. Any goods that are transported to Staten Island are done using the bridges, so the high tolls do affect the prices because those prices are NOT going to be absorbed by the food companies, trust me.  

 

http://www.silive.com/opinion/editorials/index.ssf/2013/02/high_tolls_are_strangling_stat.html

[Turbo19]

Are you even listening? By that I meant that if it was bi-Directional, you would not be paying 15.00 one way.

On the contrary, I believe you're not comprehending what I am saying.

 

Fine, let's break it down. If one way tolls were charged at the same rate to cross the bridge from either side would be $7.50. If you don't perceive that as a rip off that you have more money to throw away than I do.

 

And I still stand by my position, why would I go and drive when the most expensive mode of public transit available is still cheaper by at least $1.50 per one way trip. Savings would be much more with the fare media that is offered in comparison to one way trips.

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

[Culver]

They could cut the tolls if they stopped syphoning the monies they get from it to use towards other things like supplementing the LIRR. 

Agreed 100%, but bot happening. LI politicians wouldn't stand for it, and too many Long Islanders (including a member I saw on here a while back in another thread) are [word for excrement passage] who don't want to pay anything for LIRR and demand that NYC subsidize it entirely (hence the politicians demanding literally that). NYC has zero power on this issue.

[itmaybeokay]

Agreed 100%, but bot happening. LI politicians wouldn't stand for it, and too many Long Islanders (including a member I saw on here a while back in another thread) are [word for excrement passage] who don't want to pay anything for LIRR and demand that NYC subsidize it entirely (hence the politicians demanding literally that). NYC has zero power on this issue.

 

+1 simply for [word for excrement passage]

[BreeddekalbL]

did anyone of you read this one?

http://www.ny1.com/content/transit/184058/councilman-calls-for-ferry-service-to-help-brooklyn-commuters-when-r-train-tunnel-closes