Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
Vistausss

Questions about re-extending the Harlem line

Recommended Posts

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad#East_of_Hudson_4) there are plans to re-extend the line to Dutchess county but a re-extension to Chatham is out of the question because they would fall under the MTA tax then. But why is that a problem? Isn't that a problem for Dutchess as well then? And what do they mean with the "MTA charter"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this time, there are currently no plans to re extend the Harlem Line. Trackage past Wassaic has been torn up and turned into a biking trail. (Rail Trail) There was also a plan in 2007 to extend MNR service past Poughkeepsie but that was scrapped as well.

Edited by gregorygrice
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this time, there are currently no plans to re extend the Harlem Line. Trackage past Wassaic has been torn up and turned into a biking trail. (Rail Trail) There was also a plan in 2007 to extend MNR service past Poughkeepsie but that was scrapped as well.

 

I know, but that doesn't answer my question. I wasn't questioning the re-extension, I was questioning the tax and charter mentioned *should* there be a re-extension some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A charter of any business is a document that details the purpose of operation, objectives, structure and planned operations.  My suspicions are that the charter specifies the counties that the MTA serves.

 

Currently the MTA operates within the counties of Kings, Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland and Orange.  The residents and businesses of these counties pay a variety of taxes to NY State that is earmarked for MTA funding.  Extending Metro North into Columbia would require a change to the charter which is likely the easy part.  Second, it would require taxing the occupants of Columbia County.  It's the later that would create an uproar with what would be at best limited service.

 

There is more of a chance of extending the Hudson Line to points north of Poughkeesie since Amtrak took over the operations north of CP75

Edited by Truckie
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad#East_of_Hudson_4) there are plans to re-extend the line to Dutchess county but a re-extension to Chatham is out of the question because they would fall under the MTA tax then. But why is that a problem? Isn't that a problem for Dutchess as well then? And what do they mean with the "MTA charter"?

 

It's a problem because the rest of the MTA region sure as hell ain't forkin over money for Chatham service, and Columbia is probably going to be yet another county that claims it pays money for nothing, even though it gets some of the most expensive services (on a cost-per-rider basis), but needs NYCT to cover its costs. (See: Nassau County)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad#East_of_Hudson_4) there are plans to re-extend the line to Dutchess county but a re-extension to Chatham is out of the question because they would fall under the MTA tax then. But why is that a problem? Isn't that a problem for Dutchess as well then? And what do they mean with the "MTA charter"?

 

Dutchess is already served by the MNRR, though, so I don't think additional taxation would be as much of an issue.

 

At this time, there are currently no plans to re extend the Harlem Line. Trackage past Wassaic has been torn up and turned into a biking trail. (Rail Trail) There was also a plan in 2007 to extend MNR service past Poughkeepsie but that was scrapped as well.

 

On a side note, I don't know why it still reads as having a -1 rep when there was a +1 rep to cancel it out (at least as far as I see on my computer).

 

It's a problem because the rest of the MTA region sure as hell ain't forkin over money for Chatham service, and Columbia is probably going to be yet another county that claims it pays money for nothing, even though it gets some of the most expensive services (on a cost-per-rider basis), but needs NYCT to cover its costs. (See: Nassau County)

 

Well, the problem is that when you get that far away from NYC, very few people have a use for that service. I'm sure a lot of people would complain that they're paying for a service they're not using.

Edited by checkmatechamp13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dutchess is already served by the MNRR, though, so I don't think additional taxation would be as much of an issue.

 

 

Dutchess wouldn't be as much as an issue if Chatham is in Dutchess.  The issue is Chatham is in Columbia County.  This would create a whole new set of taxes for the entire county.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dutchess wouldn't be as much as an issue if Chatham is in Dutchess.  The issue is Chatham is in Columbia County.  This would create a whole new set of taxes for the entire county.

To boot I assume people there commute more to the berkshires and albany than to NYC. You have a better chance extending CDTA's 233 than MTA's harlem line to chatham.

Edited by qjtransitmaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would the purpose of that be?  If there was a significant need for service to Chatham, someone would have already proposed a bus route.

 

The bottom line is Metro North has no obligation to provide any kind of service to Columbia County.  Even if they decided to in the future there would have to be a benefit to do so verses the cost to provide it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition, there's no right-of-way between Chatham and Poughkeepsie (that I'm aware of - someone can correct me).

 

If you're going to extend that far north, you might as well go the whole hog and go north to Troy, and turn the Hudson Line into a New Haven-line style inter-city line. But that's also not going to happen, because of the whole tax issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition, there's no right-of-way between Chatham and Poughkeepsie (that I'm aware of - someone can correct me).

 

If you're going to extend that far north, you might as well go the whole hog and go north to Troy, and turn the Hudson Line into a New Haven-line style inter-city line. But that's also not going to happen, because of the whole tax issue.

 

The OP was reffering to extending the Harlem from Wassaic to Chatham.  Regardless there is no longer a ROW there either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, I was talking about re-extending the Harlem line. There was a time in the past when the Harlem line did go to Chatham so it's not that I'm talking about an entirely new idea. But the tax issue is indeed the problem. Back in the days there was no MNRR yet so the tax issue wasn't a problem back then.

 

Connecting bus service could be a good idea. Maybe some other company (likely from within the county or AMTRAK) could do such a thing, but then again, if the people from Chatham wanted that then the idea would probably already float around which it doesn't.

 

Extending from Poughkeepsie is a different subject. That idea has been floating around since 2007 but not to Troy but to Hartford to connect to AMTRAK there.

Edited by Vistausss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.