MTA should use its $40-million surplus to benefit Staten Island commuters

[Vistausss]

Congrats want a medal so what would you do to increase ridership on the S57? answer the question if you have no answer STFU

 

Punctuation, kid. PUNCTUATION.

[qjtransitmaster]

Said no correct person ever.

Again how would you increase ridership on S57? Don't dodge the question.

[Cait Sith]

Again how would you increase ridership on S57? Don't dodge the question.

What's with your obsession of increasing the ridership of the S57 when the purpose of the route is dead in your face? If you think sending it to New Jersey would actually help, you might want to think again.

 

The S57 is considered to be a feeder route to all of the other major routes on the island, express and local. It also goes to Seaview Hospital. The S57 is not meant to be anything major, its a community-to-community link route as it connects folks between Oakwood Heights and Port Richmond with areas in-between. It also runs every 30 minutes....there isn't much you can do to increase ridership...

[qjtransitmaster]

What's with your obsession of increasing the ridership of the S57 when the purpose of the route is dead in your face? If you think sending it to New Jersey would actually help, you might want to think again.

 

The S57 is considered to be a feeder route to all of the other major routes on the island, express and local. It also goes to Seaview Hospital. The S57 is not meant to be anything major, its a community-to-community link route as it connects folks between Oakwood Heights and Port Richmond with areas in-between. It also runs every 30 minutes....there isn't much you can do to increase ridership...

Exactly because it's a feeder sending to NJ would increase ridership on other lines as well as the S57. Since Bayonne is kinda so so ridership may increase but question is would this new ridership base force a service increase? Only one way to find out. I do admit the S89 is actually not the best way to get those in SI to NJ I don't even think it's creation was the proper way to close that gap as it required an increase in resources that would not have been all needed if the S57 was extended. So I am not surprised about it's performance.

[Cait Sith]

 

Exactly because it's a feeder sending to NJ would increase ridership on other lines as well as the S57. Since Bayonne is kinda so so ridership may increase but question is would this new ridership base force a service increase? Only one way to find out. I do admit the S89 is actually not the best way to get those in SI to NJ I don't even think it's creation was the proper way to close that gap as it required an increase in resources that would not have been all needed if the S57 was extended. So I am not surprised about it's performance.

 

You don't understand the concept of feeder routes, do you....

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

 

 

[S79 Select bus servi]

I thought the S57 was the fastest growing route in staten island.

 

Route:              Growth 2011-2012 

S40/S90           -4.5%

S42                  -11.9%

S44/S94          -2.5%

S46/S96          -3.4%

S48/S98          -2.2%

S51/S81          -2.5%

S52                 -1.3%

S53                 +1.8%

S54                 -8.4%

S55                 +2.9%

S56                 -5.7%

S57                 +8.9%

S59                 -3.6%

S61/S91         -2.9%

S62/S92         -.6%

S66                -7.5%

S74/S84         -4.1%

S76/S86         -4.5%

S78                 +0.3%

S79SBS          +1.2%

S89                  +0.8%

S93                  +0.9%

 

I'd say not mess with its growth. 

 

Oh, and ever realize the routes with good and increasing service are growing. (S78/S79 higher frequency, S89/S93, although can be crowded, they do skip stops, and the S57 because it is never crowded). Express service has also grown with those improved new buses and that red rush hour bus lane on hylan)

 

The poor routes (S46/S44 and a bit of S74) are failing, and have not seen much growth since 1993.

I can see why the S53 grows. The S79/S53 have been growing a lot since 1993. The S53 comes surprisingly on time and can come not-so-crowded at the most random times. You can kind of call this route a feeder because it links bk, port richmond, the train,and almost every bus without even going to the ferry.

 

Feeders are like long shuttles. They connect places and shuttle people, but are much longer in length. The NSAA study made the S59, S54, and S57 be feeders to the busway.  

[Vistausss]

You don't understand the concept of feeder routes, do you.... Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

 

Aside from that: how do we even know there's demand for it? Do people in the Bayonne (or Elizabeth) area really want a better connection to SI? Or Staten Islanders want a better connection to Bayonne (or Elizabeth)? If so, then it would've been brought up earlier in this or another thread and that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Cait Sith]

 

Aside from that: how do we even know there's demand for it? Do people in the Bayonne (or Elizabeth) area really want a better connection to SI? Or Staten Islanders want a better connection to Bayonne (or Elizabeth)? If so, then it would've been brought up earlier in this or another thread and that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

That's the main thing he doesn't understand....there is NO demand for more service for that line, not withstanding the slow increase in ridership. There's more demand for the S54 than there is for the S57.

 

His logic is basically this, if a route he thinks is running poorly. He'll send it to kingdom come to try and find what HE thinks is good usage for the line. I'm just glad that he's not a planner for any city.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

 

 

[qjtransitmaster]

You don't understand the concept of feeder routes, do you.... Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

 

This takes that concept further and creates a multipurpose line.

I thought the S57 was the fastest growing route in staten island.

 

Route:              Growth 2011-2012 

S40/S90           -4.5%

S42                  -11.9%

S44/S94          -2.5%

S46/S96          -3.4%

S48/S98          -2.2%

S51/S81          -2.5%

S52                 -1.3%

S53                 +1.8%

S54                 -8.4%

S55                 +2.9%

S56                 -5.7%

S57                 +8.9%

S59                 -3.6%

S61/S91         -2.9%

S62/S92         -.6%

S66                -7.5%

S74/S84         -4.1%

S76/S86         -4.5%

S78                 +0.3%

S79SBS          +1.2%

S89                  +0.8%

S93                  +0.9%

 

I'd say not mess with its growth. 

 

Oh, and ever realize the routes with good and increasing service are growing. (S78/S79 higher frequency, S89/S93, although can be crowded, they do skip stops, and the S57 because it is never crowded). Express service has also grown with those improved new buses and that red rush hour bus lane on hylan)

 

The poor routes (S46/S44 and a bit of S74) are failing, and have not seen much growth since 1993.

I can see why the S53 grows. The S79/S53 have been growing a lot since 1993. The S53 comes surprisingly on time and can come not-so-crowded at the most random times. You can kind of call this route a feeder because it links bk, port richmond, the train,and almost every bus without even going to the ferry.

 

Feeders are like long shuttles. They connect places and shuttle people, but are much longer in length. The NSAA study made the S59, S54, and S57 be feeders to the busway.  

 

I guess if the NJ extension works then the growth may become even faster not slower. @cait the growth may increase with a simple Bayonne extension but I said IF the increase is fast enough then service can increase. FYI in the NYC plan only 2 lines would get such an extension the S55&57 are unique. Then again your argument can say that the best way to link SI to Newark liberty airport would be an NJT extension instead of an S57 extension. If that is the case then even my S57 idea can't stand up to that argument or stance. I sense that would be your argument. Then S57 unchanged or modified under checkmate13's proposal can work better under those circumstances.

Aside from that: how do we even know there's demand for it? Do people in the Bayonne (or Elizabeth) area really want a better connection to SI? Or Staten Islanders want a better connection to Bayonne (or Elizabeth)? If so, then it would've been brought up earlier in this or another thread and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Just look at the gothels bridge.

[Cait Sith]

This takes that concept further and creates a multipurpose line.

 

That doesn't take the concept further, it does the EXACT OPPOSITE of what a FEEDER ROUTE DOES!

 

A FEEDER ROUTE goes to areas that has less transportation and provides them with connections to the MAJOR routes. What you're doing is a COMPLETE ABOMINATION!

 

There's absolutely NO REASON to send this route to New Jersey AT ALL.....AT ALL!

 

And how the hell do you know that people want access to NEWARK LIBERTY AIRPORT from STATEN ISLAND? There's absolutely NO DEMAND for ANY service TO or FROM NEW JERSEY!!!! If that were the case, wouldn't you think something like that would be running right now????? There is a reason why people take the bus from Newark and/or take the train to Newark EWR Station and transfer to the Airtrain....

 

If you actually want to make some LOGICAL changes to the S57, modify it WITHIN the island, NOT OUT of the island....

 

Geez, I'm glad you are not a route/city planner at all.

[qjtransitmaster]

That doesn't take the concept further, it does the EXACT OPPOSITE of what a FEEDER ROUTE DOES!

 

A FEEDER ROUTE goes to areas that has less transportation and provides them with connections to the MAJOR routes. What you're doing is a COMPLETE ABOMINATION!

 

There's absolutely NO REASON to send this route to New Jersey AT ALL.....AT ALL!

 

And how the hell do you know that people want access to NEWARK LIBERTY AIRPORT from STATEN ISLAND? There's absolutely NO DEMAND for ANY service TO or FROM NEW JERSEY!!!! If that were the case, wouldn't you think something like that would be running right now????? There is a reason why people take the bus from Newark and/or take the train to Newark EWR Station and transfer to the Airtrain....

 

If you actually want to make some LOGICAL changes to the S57, modify it WITHIN the island, NOT OUT of the island....

 

Geez, I'm glad you are not a route/city planner at all.

The SI expressway won't be so jammed if there was no demand buddy you can't be that blind. However the reason such a service is not running is finding issues you should know full well that Staten island is underfunded. Many things aren't done due to money your making a joke of yourself as you still haven't created a proper counter-argument. However I admit NJT may be a better fit than an S57 extension. The ideal way would have been just S57 extension to 34th street HBLR instead of the S89. To be honest that sounds more reasonable with NJT having service from Newark airport to SI. From say port Richmond or that new terminal MTA has planned for the north shore.

[Cait Sith]

The SI expressway won't be so jammed if there was no demand buddy you can't be that blind. However the reason such a service is not running is finding issues you should know full well that Staten island is underfunded. Many things aren't done due to money your making a joke of yourself as you still haven't created a proper counter-argument. However I admit NJT may be a better fit than an S57 extension. The ideal way would have been just S57 extension to 34th street HBLR instead of the S89. To be honest that sounds more reasonable with NJT having service from Newark airport to SI. From say port Richmond or that new terminal MTA has planned for the north shore.

Now I have a legitimate reason to be an ass. Don't cry about it either, you brought it upon yourself.

 

How many kinds of stupid are you? 10? 20? 30 kinds? What in the absolute hell does the S.I expressway have to do with the S57? Especially since the line itself doesn't even go ON there....

 

And hurrdurr, the S.I expressway is used in BOTH DIRECTIONS, people drive THROUGH NEW JERSEY from MANHATTAN to GET TO STATEN ISLAND as well to avoid going DOWNTOWN you know...it's more jammed going BROOKLYN BOUND than it is going NJ BOUND......

 

Have you ever ridden the route? I highly doubt it. It clearly shows the lack of knowledge you even have for the damn route to begin with. You're more focused on your "statistics" than reality.

 

And where the hell did you come out with all of this funding shit to begin with? You barely know anything about run systems, routing and planning and you want to talk about FUNDS? Please, before you come talking to me about funding, learn the basics. Funding had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING we were talking about either.....

 

Again, there's no legitimate reason in the world to even send the route to New Jersey. You want a legitimate extension? Send the damn route to the Richmond Avenue terminal with the S54 and S89.....that will cure your NJ fetish.

 

I go to Staten Island every week, the fact that you are questioning my knowledge about the routing when you can't even tell your ass from your elbow is ridiculous.

[qjtransitmaster]

Now I have a legitimate reason to be an ass. Don't cry about it either, you brought it upon yourself.

 

How many kinds of stupid are you? 10? 20? 30 kinds? What in the absolute hell does the S.I expressway have to do with the S57? Especially since the line itself doesn't even go ON there....

 

And hurrdurr, the S.I expressway is used in BOTH DIRECTIONS, people drive THROUGH NEW JERSEY from MANHATTAN to GET TO STATEN ISLAND as well to avoid going DOWNTOWN you know...it's more jammed going BROOKLYN BOUND than it is going NJ BOUND......

 

Have you ever ridden the route? I highly doubt it. It clearly shows the lack of knowledge you even have for the damn route to begin with. You're more focused on your "statistics" than reality.

 

And where the hell did you come out with all of this funding shit to begin with? You barely know anything about run systems, routing and planning and you want to talk about FUNDS? Please, before you come talking to me about funding, learn the basics. Funding had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING we were talking about either.....

 

Again, there's no legitimate reason in the world to even send the route to New Jersey. You want a legitimate extension? Send the damn route to the Richmond Avenue terminal with the S54 and S89.....that will cure your NJ fetish.

 

I go to Staten Island every week, the fact that you are questioning my knowledge about the routing when you can't even tell your ass from your elbow is ridiculous.

My NJ fetish doesn't have to be a S57 extension I did say an NJT route may be better suited to that. But you being an ass just makes me look better.

[Turbo19]

My NJ fetish doesn't have to be a S57 extension I did say an NJT route may be better suited to that. But you being an ass just makes me look better.

So you aren't denying you have one?

[Cait Sith]

My NJ fetish doesn't have to be a S57 extension I did say an NJT route may be better suited to that. But you being an ass just makes me look better.

Your knowledge about routes, especially the ones you know nothing about and the ideas you come up with says otherwise, my friend....

 

So you aren't denying you have one?

Caught....."red-handed!" LOL! Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

[qjtransitmaster]

So you aren't denying you have one?

To fix that gap NJT would benefit more due to their fare structure. Cait Sith needs a snickers badly.

Your knowledge about routes, especially the ones you know nothing about and the ideas you come up with says otherwise, my friend....

 

Caught....."red-handed!" LOL! Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

 

I guess this is what I get for not being specific still you started it ants in the pants. You really need to chill you sound like your just screaming. Your knowledge is limited to a certain area I really have just played around with you and already your just shouting over crap.

[qjtransitmaster]

Your knowledge about routes, especially the ones you know nothing about and the ideas you come up with says otherwise, my friend....

 

Caught....."red-handed!" LOL! Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G via Tapatalk 4

 

Your rambling says otherwise you just can't carry out a proper debate can you? Your a spectacular show. If you try beyond NYC you'd get crushed. I already know your habits.

[Cait Sith]

To fix that gap NJT would benefit more due to their fare structure. Cait Sith needs a snickers badly.

 

I guess this is what I get for not being specific still you started it ants in the pants. You really need to chill you sound like your just screaming. Your knowledge is limited to a certain area I really have just played around with you and already your just shouting over crap.

 

 

Your rambling says otherwise you just can't carry out a proper debate can you? Your a spectacular show. If you try beyond NYC you'd get crushed. I already know your habits.

 

Since you want to sound smart, answer this question for me....

 

What does New Jersey Transit have to do with an MTA BASED thread and discussion????

 

And the fact that you can't even come up with a reasonable response to whatever I said proves that your intelligence about anything you said does not have any merit....

[qjtransitmaster]

Since you want to sound smart, answer this question for me....

 

What does New Jersey Transit have to do with an MTA BASED thread and discussion????

The travel habits of Saten island and nearby NJ are related.

[Cait Sith]

The travel habits of Saten island and nearby NJ are related.

 

Not exactly......

[bobtehpanda]

The SI expressway won't be so jammed if there was no demand buddy you can't be that blind. However the reason such a service is not running is finding issues you should know full well that Staten island is underfunded. Many things aren't done due to money your making a joke of yourself as you still haven't created a proper counter-argument. However I admit NJT may be a better fit than an S57 extension. The ideal way would have been just S57 extension to 34th street HBLR instead of the S89. To be honest that sounds more reasonable with NJT having service from Newark airport to SI. From say port Richmond or that new terminal MTA has planned for the north shore.

 

Okay, the SIE is jammed because people use it to bypass Manhattan. Staten Island also isn't "underfunded" - they get less service than the other boroughs because it's less populous and less dense, which translates to less demand and less ridership.

 

If S89s were crowded during the peak, I would say that yes, Staten Island and New Jersey should have more bus routes. At the moment, right now, it is in the bottom 10 routes in terms of daily ridership. So I don't understand where you get this image of "demand" from.

[B35 via Church]

The travel habits of Staten island and nearby NJ are related.

Yeah, to what extent though...

 

But let's run with that.... That right there is what's been wrong with your logic since day one....

You have this obsession with trying to take the masses out of their cars and onto buses.

 

You're going on this notion that since people utilize cars to get from point A to point B, they will be just as willing to take public transportation from the same point A & point B.... Which has been pointed out by various ppl. on here to you that it simply would not be the case.... See, I don't think you realize how empty S57's running b/w SI & NJ would be... You're using this whole "multi-purpose" bit to try to justify the additional ridership (to the tune that you think it will anyway)....

 

"Multi-purpose" lines only work when the multiple "purposes" the route would serve, would be consistent.... The Q44 & the Q32 are very good examples of this... You cannot put an extended S57 in that category.... All you are doing is extending a line whose ridership isn't all that high, to a place where you think ridership would noticably increase - and passing that off as a multi-purpose line....

 

You aint slick.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah, to what extent though...

 

But let's run with that.... That right there is what's been wrong with your logic since day one....

You have this obsession with trying to take the masses out of their cars and onto buses.

 

You're going on this notion that since people utilize cars to get from point A to point B, they will be just as willing to take public transportation from the same point A & point B.... Which has been pointed out by various ppl. on here to you that it simply would not be the case.... See, I don't think you realize how empty S57's running b/w SI & NJ would be... You're using this whole "multi-purpose" bit to try to justify the additional ridership (to the tune that you think it will anyway)....

 

"Multi-purpose" lines only work when the multiple "purposes" the route would serve, would be consistent.... The Q44 & the Q32 are very good examples of this... You cannot put an extended S57 in that category.... All you are doing is extending a line whose ridership isn't all that high, to a place where you think ridership would noticably increase - and passing that off as a multi-purpose line....

 

You aint slick.

I guess that idea alone isn't enough. But I will clarify that in the NJT forums. I did some snooping around about historical NWK airport lines and if NJT had a 300 series line that linked northern NJ to the airport then via Bayonne to say CSI with a stop on forest ave with S57 going to that new north shore terminal instead of NJ you would still close that gap. Also many lines are at that airport one is an intercity sort of. And the other is LTD aka go28. The S57 even without NJ can still be multipurpose. I suggested Bayonne so connections to other NJT lines to journal as and other parts can be easier it will be more economical that S89 offpeak service. Then again checkmate13's idea is looking more practical as NJT has the 10&81. And more hubs in SI would make such travel easy. Just cause cars go doesn't mean buses should but having zero option is also even worse why should the only connection to NJ from SI be some route to an area people barely drive to. Not attempting is so much worse than finding out how many who drive or have rides truly need some form of transit. Not all of it however is doable via the MTA.

[qjtransitmaster]

Okay, the SIE is jammed because people use it to bypass Manhattan. Staten Island also isn't "underfunded" - they get less service than the other boroughs because it's less populous and less dense, which translates to less demand and less ridership.

 

If S89s were crowded during the peak, I would say that yes, Staten Island and New Jersey should have more bus routes. At the moment, right now, it is in the bottom 10 routes in terms of daily ridership. So I don't understand where you get this image of "demand" from.

S89 goes to Bayonne you barely see cars on that bridge out of the 3 NJ crossings the bayonne is the least used what do you expect S89's ridership to be? This image of demand doesn't include a bus with frequent service to Bayonne. S89 was a waste of $$$ that much I admit. I am talking about via outerbridge to Woodbridge mall via metropark NEC station. Or elsewhere but then again NJT would be a better fit.

[B35 via Church]

I guess that idea alone isn't enough. But I will clarify that in the NJT forums.

 

I did some snooping around about historical NWK airport lines and if NJT had a 300 series line that linked northern NJ to the airport then via Bayonne to say CSI with a stop on forest ave with S57 going to that new north shore terminal instead of NJ you would still close that gap. Also many lines are at that airport one is an intercity sort of. And the other is LTD aka go28. The S57 even without NJ can still be multipurpose.

 

I suggested Bayonne so connections to other NJT lines to journal as and other parts can be easier it will be more economical that S89 offpeak service. Then again checkmate13's idea is looking more practical as NJT has the 10&81. And more hubs in SI would make such travel easy.

 

Just cause cars go doesn't mean buses should but having zero option is also even worse why should the only connection to NJ from SI be some route to an area people barely drive to. Not attempting is so much worse than finding out how many who drive or have rides truly need some form of transit. Not all of it however is doable via the MTA.

So I see...

 

So in other words, buses should serve any & everywhere where there isn't bus service, just so that cars aren't the only option....

Bus routes should be drawn up & implemented on a trial & error basis, to boot - Good job man.... And with that said, you are the absolute last person I want to hear complaining about lack of service on some other bus/subway route in this city, and any increase in fare as well.... Since you're in the gambit of suggesting that bus routes be thought up for such a silly reason......

 

Also, the problem with your shitting on the S89 was that there was actual demand for it (regardless if some agreed w/ the existence of the route or not - and it wasn't gauged by how many ppl. were driving b/w SI & Bayonne either)..... Where are the SI-ers clamoring for service to NJ you want to send the S57 to?

 

Oh, and that part about the S57 can still be multipurpose w/o running to NJ... Sure it can.

That statement by itself means nothing without an explanation..... Tell us how oh so multipurpose the S57 can be, while still remaining on the island, while still being something called....

 

....Useful.