When the Facts Don't Matter

[BrooklynBus]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/06/when-the-facts-dont-matter/

[MHV9218]

While I don't think it's exactly a conspiracy that the MTA's always lying to us and secretly sitting on wads of cash, it is true that when somebody with power wants something, they get it. Check out any of Bloomberg's pet projects (7 extension a perfect example) from the past years and note how there's somehow always money for them.

[DanTheTransitMan]

Brooklyn Bus, in regards to your comment on how the MTA doesn't measure transferees when they take ridership data: how would they accurately pull that off? It seems to me that the MTA's current method of measuring people, checking the numbers on the turnstiles, would be the only way you see how many people utilize a station. 

[BrooklynBus]

When you can't get actual counts from a machine, then you do surveys, or you could post people at the top of stairways and do counts for several hours. You can relate the turnstile counts to the counts at the tops of the stairways and estimate non-transferring passengers by comparing the two.

[Culver]

When you can't get actual counts from a machine, then you do surveys, or you could post people at the top of stairways and do counts for several hours. You can relate the turnstile counts to the counts at the tops of the stairways and estimate non-transferring passengers by comparing the two.

 

Because New Yorkers love nothing more than being stopped for a survey while on their way somewhere.

 

Not happening. That's tedious and how would counting people tell them who's transferring from where? This couldn't possibly work on any stations other than the least used ones. Is the counter going to ask everybody to slow down so he/she can count them all?

[B35 via Church]

- "The name of the game is not to help riders solve their transportation problems but to put money in the pockets of the big guys."

 

yep, been sayin this.... What one would think the term public transportation would suggest, isn't as such.....

We provide it... you, the public, just shut up & take it..... I won't use the term monopoly, but it is dictatorship-like.... Public hearings only exist for our (their) amusement - We like to see to what extent the powerless will whine for what we won't give them.....

 

 

- "Regarding providing new bus routes to underserved areas, the MTA claims it has only enough funding to provide service every 30 minutes despite there being $20 or $40 million more in next year’s budget than they anticipated when these services were first proposed."

 

The eggheads & the higher-ups have mortgages to pay, families to feed, and vacations (plural) they have to go on too.... Yes, have - as individual salaries aren't enough.... Resorting to siphoning funding for a given purpose (in this case, public transportation) for personal reasons is one of the oldest tricks in the book - and of course, we, the powerless, have to put up with whatever (service) they give us....

 

...or "buy a car", as the common retort/rhetoric/response is to that.

 

Individual battles aren't enough to try to win, when the general public is losing the overall war with what we're given...

I'll just sit back & watch our system wane as time progresses - all under the disguise of the exact opposite !

 

...as fares increase, on top of it.

[checkmatechamp13]

I figure this is as good a time to ask as any. Let me see if I got this right as far as the extra funding goes.

 

* The governor allocated an additional $318 million (per year I'm assuming) to the MTA.

 

* They actually ended up getting $358 million, which was $40 million more than expected.

 

I was originally under the impression that the $40 million was the only money they were getting. Then I got in contact with some politicians (and also read an article on SAS) that said that it was $358 million.

 

So then my question is: What are they allocating the money towards? For $358 million, they should've been able to add much more service than they did. I don't feel like doing the exact math, but with all these services being added and restored, I can't picture it costing them more than $70-$80 million. The service reductions saved them about $77 million for NYCT, so they added some of them back, and added new service on top of that, so they probably came close to breaking even. Maybe rising costs might've kicked that up a notch, but it's still nowhere near the $358 million.

 

So basically I'm asking, what did they do with the extra (approximately) $280 million? Did they use it to pay off debts or something?

[MHV9218]

The $318 was accounted into their budget. They knew Cuomo was giving them that money, so they took it and divided it accordingly (Capital Program, wages, whatever--I don't know the specifics). The $40 million was not accounted for in their budget, and that's why it's being referred to as "extra money." I don't know what the plan is to do with any of this money, but the 'surprise' funds are not $280 million, more likr $40 million.

[B35 via Church]

So basically I'm asking, what did they do with the extra (approximately) $280 million? Did they use it to pay off debts or something?

Depends what you're referring to when you say extra......

 

As far as the money expected to be received from tax revenues, it's not an extra 280 million..... Nor an extra 358 million (like BrooklynBus originally thought in this blog).... What it is, is that the MTA expected/budgeted for 318 million (from tax revenues); they got 358 million instead - which is a net of 40 million in their favor (from expected tax revenues)..... The taxes we pay, a cool 358 million of it went to the MTA - 40 more million from you, the taxpayer they expected to receive.....

 

358 million out of something like 71-72 billion the entire state got from tax revenues.....

 

So then my question is: What are they allocating the money towards?

Your question is the question - How will this 40 million be used !

 

For starters, it's already been put out there that the governor is set to (or already did) take away 20 million of that 40 million for his executive budget.... Which would leave the MTA with 20 million to work with from that 40 million (or 20 million less than the 40 million, whichever way you wanna look at it)....

[Trainmaster5]

As I alluded to in the subway forum it all depends on who is providing said "facts". Just throwing a bunch of numbers out there with no context does not make a conclusion a "fact". NYC and state and agencies such as the or NYPD are good at providing numbers with no background to them. I used to be an avid reader of the Village Voice back in the day when writers like Barrett and Conason would expose these bogus numbers weekly. I'm old enough to remember bogus body counts from the Vietnam era so any numbers coming from the city, state, military, or the are suspect until proved otherwise to me. Loading guidelines that fluctuate or the ever adjusting distance between bus stops come to mind where the is concerned. Check for hidden agendas and verify the numbers when it comes to agencies like the , IMO. Carry on.

[B35 via Church]

Loading guidelines that fluctuate or the ever adjusting distance between bus stops come to mind where the is concerned....

Had to laugh at this.

 

Hell, in my last post, I had wanted to insert the MTA's overall budget....

Then I thought to myself, why am I tryna go around searching for something they don't even know !

[BrooklynBus]

Because New Yorkers love nothing more than being stopped for a survey while on their way somewhere.

 

Not happening. That's tedious and how would counting people tell them who's transferring from where? This couldn't possibly work on any stations other than the least used ones. Is the counter going to ask everybody to slow down so he/she can count them all?

No counts or surveys are perfect. They are only estimates which are still better than not condering transferring passengers at all.

[MHV9218]

I used to be an avid reader of the Village Voice back in the day when writers like Barrett and Conason would expose these bogus numbers weekly. 

 

The Voice died when Barrett was fired and Robbins left, what a sad state that paper is today.

[checkmatechamp13]

@B35 & MHV:

 

I just received a letter (well, an email with a PDF of a letter) from a politician (Andrew Lanza) that said that the budget was increased by $358 million. (Well, now it's $338 million if they're taking away $20 million). It was a letter sent by a group of politicians to some MTA officials, and said:

 

"In the 2013-2014 State budget, the MTA received an increase of more than $358 million in operating support for subways, buses and commuter rail. This increase exceeded the MTA's budget assumptions by $40 million." 

 

And I found an article from the governor's office about it. 

 

So it looks like the money is an increase from last year, but it's more of an increase than they were expecting.

[MHV9218]

@B35 & MHV:

 

I just received a letter (well, an email with a PDF of a letter) from a politician (Andrew Lanza) that said that the budget was increased by $358 million. (Well, now it's $338 million if they're taking away $20 million). It was a letter sent by a group of politicians to some MTA officials, and said:

 

"In the 2013-2014 State budget, the MTA received an increase of more than $358 million in operating support for subways, buses and commuter rail. This increase exceeded the MTA's budget assumptions by $40 million." 

 

And I found an article from the governor's office about it. 

 

So it looks like the money is an increase from last year, but it's more of an increase than they were expecting.

 

Right, exactly. That expected an increase per the governor and planned accordingly, but they actually received about $40mil more than that amount. That's the money to be played with right now.

[B35 via Church]

@B35 & MHV:

 

I just received a letter (well, an email with a PDF of a letter) from a politician (Andrew Lanza) that said that the budget was increased by $358 million. (Well, now it's $338 million if they're taking away $20 million). It was a letter sent by a group of politicians to some MTA officials, and said:

 

"In the 2013-2014 State budget, the MTA received an increase of more than $358 million in operating support for subways, buses and commuter rail.

This increase exceeded the MTA's budget assumptions by $40 million." 

 

And I found an article from the governor's office about it. 

 

So it looks like the money is an increase from last year, but it's more of an increase than they were expecting.

Right, that's what we're saying.... the 40 million was the unexpected increase.....

 

The same article says:

"The MTA will receive an increase of more than $358 million, or more than 9.2 percent, from the $3.8 billion received in 2012-13, which will provide operating support for transit and commuter rail systems. This increase exceeds the MTA 2013 budget aid assumption from the State, and will help to maintain services while also reducing pressure on fares and tolls."

 

The 358 million is additional money from the state..... By saying the 358 was the unexpected increase, it's like saying the MTA expected no additional money from tax revenues.....

 

So in short:

- the 358 million is the total of what they got from tax revenues this year

- the 40 million is what they netted from tax revenues this year

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edit: lol the both of us @ posting at the same time.