Are there rules/guidelines for determining which stations should be gap stations?

[RTOMan]

Jackson southbound makes sense - it's just before the end of the middle track, so a southbound local can be held in the station while an express goes ahead.

 

 

It's certainly not the case that "Almost every station has holding lights"!

 

Theres a Homeball at the End of the station So Mott Tower can just not give the Line Up.

 

No need to use the Holding Lights, and since ATS has taken over well i wont get into that no use.

 

In the bight Glare of the Sunlight Sometimes those Holding Lights are hard to see. Now if they changed them and put up the new green ones in the sliver box that helps.

 

As for the almost every station ok quite a few stations....

 

That seems Better....

[RTOMan]

Since Snowblock actually works for the and is pretty much always right when it comes to technical info I'm pretty sure he knows what he's saying in this thread.

 

Sometimes you need to be *precise* with the wording though..

[Snowblock]

I'm just saying, stations like Intervale and Prospect (and I believe every single station from Utica to New Lots) have holding lights, that doesn't make them gap stations though.

 

True story - once when I was working the , somehow Mott Tower managed to turn on the holding lights at Prospect and couldn't get them to go off again. All afternoon I kept hearing on the radio "*WHY* DO WE HAVE HOLDING LIGHTS AT PROSPECT???"

 

I can tell you that 20 Av and 25 Av on the have holding lights which do get used when the terminal gets really backed up. I'm not sure about every line, but I think as you get closer to a terminal, the last couple of stations will have them.

[BrooklynIRT]

Theres a Homeball at the End of the station So Mott Tower can just not give the Line Up.

 

No need to use the Holding Lights, and since ATS has taken over well i wont get into that no use.

 

In the bight Glare of the Sunlight Sometimes those Holding Lights are hard to see. Now if they changed them and put up the new green ones in the sliver box that helps.

 

As for the almost every station ok quite a few stations....

 

That seems Better....

you meant the yellow ones in the silver box, right? I assume we are talking about holding lights and not starting lights. just checking.

 

I like those new holding/starting lights in the silver boxes. the silver and the fact that they are LEDs instead of incandescent bulbs make them look much better than the old ones.

[RTOMan]

you meant the yellow ones in the silver box, right? I assume we are talking about holding lights and not starting lights. just checking.

 

I like those new holding/starting lights in the silver boxes. the silver and the fact that they are LEDs instead of incandescent bulbs make them look much better than the old ones.

 

Yes got the Color effed up the Yellow Ones the green ones are starting lights.. *But the Amber ones* in the B Div in a place can be used at starting lights..

 

Valuable Prizes to the one who can name a spot heres a hint its in the Eastern Div..

[Snowblock]

Well Euclid has amber starting lights, but I don't think that counts as Eastern Div

[RTOMan]

Well Euclid has amber starting lights, but I don't think that counts as Eastern Div

 

You know whats Funny? Worked that Charlie for two years and never even bothered to look..

[Eric B]

Myrtle Bway (because the amber is for the express trains, but the express track is also used as the terminal for the shuttle. Trying to make sure I remember correctly; haven't done the shuttle in a while, and for some reason I'm remembering green, but then they don't usually have both green and amber; they just use the amber. There are other places I've worked in G.O.s at places that are not usually terminals, where the amber would be used as starting lights, and it would sometimes confuse the conductor).

[RTOMan]

Myrtle Bway (because the amber is for the express trains, but the express track is also used as the terminal for the shuttle. Trying to make sure I remember correctly; haven't done the shuttle in a while, and for some reason I'm remembering green, but then they don't usually have both green and amber; they just use the amber. There are other places I've worked in G.O.s at places that are not usually terminals, where the amber would be used as starting lights, and it would sometimes confuse the conductor).

 

They are Green Now.. (Worked the Mikey Shuttle this pick so THOSE i have seen).

[Eric B]

So they have both now? They didn't take the yellows away, right?

[RTOMan]

So they have both now? They didn't take the yellows away, right?

 

Yes Yellows are still there...

[PATCOman]

The amber lights on 2 track at Euclid are also used to hold As which happen to arrive on 2.  Also, all 4 tracks have holding lights have bells too.

[Snowblock]

Yeah, so do the holding lights at 34/6. I just WAIT for the inevitable DING when my train comes into that station......

[AndrewJC]

Since Snowblock actually works for the and is pretty much always right when it comes to technical info I'm pretty sure he knows what he's saying in this thread.

 

What's with the deification of MTA employees? Even great human beings occasionally misspeak. 

 

This particular factoid is quite easy to verify by simply looking out the window as you ride the subway. If you do that, you'll see that, in fact, most stations do not have holding lights.

 

Yeah, so do the holding lights at 34/6. I just WAIT for the inevitable DING when my train comes into that station......

 

That caught me by surprise the first few times I heard it - until I remembered back to 2001-2004.

[Snowblock]

If you want to play the semantics game, make a list of every station and whether or not they have holding lights, and see if that's above or below 51%.

 

Here, I'll get you started. The following stations have them: Bedford Park, Kingsbridge, Tremont, 170, 167, 161, 145, 135, 125, 116, 72, 59, 7-53, 47-50, 42, 34, W4, Blaf, Grand, Dekalb, Pacific, 36, 9, 62, 20, Bay Parkway, 25, B50. That's 28 intermediate stations which have them, and 21 which don't, plus the two terminals (205 & Stillwell) = 28/51 = 55%. So yes, MOST of the stations on the line have holding lights!

[CenSin]

semantics

statistics

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

What is the purpose of the bells with the lights? I remember that before the got ATS there would be starting lights with bells.

 

Speaking of ATS, why is it that sometimes when I'm at GCT or Union Square the lights will come on at the 4/5/6 platform for less than 15 seconds and go off again? Is that ATS. controlling the lights?

[PATCOman]

In the case of Union Square, it has something to do with the gap fillers I think.

[Snowblock]

Yeah, Union Square has an auto-hold. They want you to give at least 15 seconds with the doors open there. Note that many of the holding lights are also connected to the lineup. 47-50 and 36 St on the , the holding lights will stay on until you have a clear home signal.

[RTOPRO]

I'm going to become extra technical with this. The original question refers to the rules and guidelines in determining gap stations. However, you first have to define the term gap station. Down here, especially in ATSville, gap is a scheduling term. If one train follows closely to another that train will be gapped at the next gap station or control will radio the train to gap at a non-gap station. The schedule cards list the gap stations and the train's arrival time. In some instances a hold is scheduled and the full schedule will contain the arrival and departure.

 

With that being said. Every gap station has holding lights, not every station with holding lights is a gap station. Don't get this confused. It's as simple as you're reading this. Yes most holding lights are throwbacks to a by gone era of towers but this days are gone in the A division.

 

Yes you can be turned at some gap stations but not all. Usually those stations can be identified by home and train order signals.

 

So what are the rules and guidelines in determining gap stations? Only Operations Planning knows the full answer. But a reasonable estimate revolves around the following.

 

1. Station usage stats

2. Cross platform transfers

3. Major system transfers

4. Public mass connections

 

Anything else like turning points would be over thinking OP because the term gap has one agenda. Moving the maximum number of people forward in one direction as quickly and efficiently as possible. When you turn a train you remove it from service dumping customers on the platform. Quickly, efficiently and schedule now all get thrown out the window therefore conflicting with the term gap which can also be defined as maintaining the schedule.

[AndrewJC]

If you want to play the semantics game, make a list of every station and whether or not they have holding lights, and see if that's above or below 51%.

 

Here, I'll get you started. The following stations have them: Bedford Park, Kingsbridge, Tremont, 170, 167, 161, 145, 135, 125, 116, 72, 59, 7-53, 47-50, 42, 34, W4, Blaf, Grand, Dekalb, Pacific, 36, 9, 62, 20, Bay Parkway, 25, B50. That's 28 intermediate stations which have them, and 21 which don't, plus the two terminals (205 & Stillwell) = 28/51 = 55%. So yes, MOST of the stations on the line have holding lights!

 

55% is "Almost every station"?

 

And how about the rest of the system?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Yeah, Union Square has an auto-hold. They want you to give at least 15 seconds with the doors open there. Note that many of the holding lights are also connected to the lineup. 47-50 and 36 St on the , the holding lights will stay on until you have a clear home signal.

Thanks snowblock!