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New Queens Subway line to relieve congestion on the IND QBL on hitlist for councilman Leroy Comrie


realizm

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There is a demand for a Rockaway Beach Branch reactivation due to the overcrowding of the buses. Plus the tracks are already there unlike in Eastern Queens where you need to build new infrastructure. It should be top priority.

But at the same time, that structure might not be up to standards since it hasn't been used in over 50 years

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But at the same time, that structure might not be up to standards since it hasn't been used in over 50 years

 

Not to mention that any new structure has to be built to federal standards if we ask the feds for money. Plus, it definitely isn't ADA compatible, and if you're the MTA a brand new elevator at a former railroad station costs an extra $10M, (They quoted this price for a Elmhurst LIRR reactivation.)

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But at the same time, that structure might not be up to standards since it hasn't been used in over 50 years

Those would be replaced. The point remains that with the city owning the ROW and it being outdoors and on an embankment or a low-lying el, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to rebuild and restore as needed than a tunnel somewhere.

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Exactly. The Row is there. Securing a new area to build a new structure (above or below ground) is going to lead to more red tape. If they have to demolish the Rockaway row structure and rebuild it, then so be it. Now whether the residents find out the old structure has to be demolished and then rebuilt and they use that as a reason to block the rebuilding of the line, then maybe they could explore Woodhaven blvd to tunnel under.

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Just because something's easier doesn't mean its the best way. Take the SAS as an example. They're not using the Canal Street tunnel because in order for it to be done *right* they can't use it even though it would be "easier".

 

Far more useful brand new lines in Queens would attract more ridership, such as a line out to the Eastern sections, or a line through Maspeth and Sunnyside. 

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But at the same time, that structure might not be up to standards since it hasn't been used in over 50 years

 

It will almost certainly not be up to standards. The tracks have been abandoned for many years, and shrubbery is growing on the former tracks. Then there is the structure itself, which would need significant renovation, if it is not torn town and rebuilt altogether.

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<p>I have a different take on this. From an engineering perspective it is definitely a possible feat to perform the reactivation and rebuild of the former LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch itself, albeit a challenging feat. Why I am more optimistic about this? The record of the Mass Transit agencies of the past and the current MTA shows<br />

<br />

1) The MTA did successfully restore the Franklin Ave Shuttle practically rebuilding it from almost scratch.</p><br />

<br />

2) Historically the IND/NYCTA did it, taking a burned down and destroyed LIRR branch to the Rockaways for service from the Fulton Street Line.<br />

<br />

3)The MTA did it again with the same IND Rockaway line it again after Hurricaine Sandy almost destroyed the line.<br />

<br />

4) On the legal implications: What about the construction of the Airtrain to JFK with minimal disruption from red tape IIRC? Chriytie St connection without the red tape complications? The SAS itself? The former construction and the current construction now in progress? Did I miss anything?<br />

<br />

5) What about MTA reconstruction of the southern half of the IRT 7th Ave the BMT Broadway after WTC was completely destroyed? After the WTC's collapse of 9/11 literally destroyed portions of the infrastructure?<br />

<br />

So what I am really concerned about -is- the <em>NIMBYs or the lawmakers in Albany stopping it</em>, that's the real problems associated with this great idea towards relieving of congestion on the IND QBL. No foamerizm in that, it's just that, to me it's just looking at this realistically. It's doable from an engineering perspective. From a legal standpoint however........</p>

<p> </p>

<p>*Edit: Coding errors edited out of response.</p>

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I have a different take on this. From an engineering perspective it is definitely a possible feat to perform the reactivation and rebuild of the former LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch itself, albeit a challenging feat. Why I am more optimistic about this? The record of the Mass Transit agencies of the past and the current MTA shows.

1) The MTA did successfully restore the Franklin Ave Shuttle practically rebuilding it from almost scratch.

2) Historically the IND/NYCTA did it, taking a burned down and destroyed LIRR branch to the Rockaways for service from the Fulton Street Line.

3)The MTA did it again with the same IND Rockaway line again after Hurricaine Sandy almost destroyed the line.

4) On the legal implications: What about the construction of the Airtrain to JFK with minimal disruption from red tape IIRC? Chriytie St connection without the red tape complications? The SAS itself? The former construction and the current construction now in progress? Did I miss anything?

5) What about MTA reconstruction of the southern half of the IRT 7th Ave the BMT Broadway & after WTC was completely destroyed? After the WTC's collapse of 9/11 literally destroyed portions of the infrastructure?

So what I am really concerned about -is- the NIMBYs or the lawmakers in Albany stopping that's the real problems associated with this great idea towards relieving of congestion on the IND QBL. No foamerizm in that, it's just that, to me it's just looking at this realistically. It's doable from an engineering perspective. From a legal standpoint however........
 

*repost due to coding errors

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I have a different take on this. From an engineering perspective it is definitely a possible feat to perform the reactivation and rebuild of the former LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch itself, albeit a challenging feat. Why I am more optimistic about this? The record of the Mass Transit agencies of the past and the current MTA shows.

 

1) The MTA did successfully restore the Franklin Ave Shuttle practically rebuilding it from almost scratch.

2) Historically the IND/NYCTA did it, taking a burned down and destroyed LIRR branch to the Rockaways for service from the Fulton Street Line.

 

3)The MTA did it again with the same IND Rockaway line again after Hurricaine Sandy almost destroyed the line.

 

4) On the legal implications: What about the construction of the Airtrain to JFK with minimal disruption from red tape IIRC? Chriytie St connection without the red tape complications? The SAS itself? The former construction and the current construction now in progress? Did I miss anything?

 

5) What about MTA reconstruction of the southern half of the IRT 7th Ave the BMT Broadway & after WTC was completely destroyed? After the WTC's collapse of 9/11 literally destroyed portions of the infrastructure?

 

So what I am really concerned about -is- the NIMBYs or the lawmakers in Albany stopping that's the real problems associated with this great idea towards relieving of congestion on the IND QBL. No foamerizm in that, it's just that, to me it's just looking at this realistically. It's doable from an engineering perspective. From a legal standpoint however........

 

*repost due to coding errors

 

Wasn't the Rockaway Line still in servicce when the IND took over?

 

Anyways, the MTA can do emergency work cheaply, hence Port Jervis post-Irene and WTC.

 

Port Authority is a completely different animal and runs an extremely tight ship.

 

It's personally the example of SAS and East Side Access that worry me - those are currently the two most expensive tunneling projects in world history, ever, on a per-mile basis, at around $2B and $4B per km. The only non-American project to even crack $1B per km is London's Crossrail, and that's because it weaves through soft clay and under rivers and the various London infrastructure that has developed over the years. Sure, other countries don't have to deal with as many skyscrapers and hard rock, but most countries build for less than $300M per km. This leads me to believe that a project like this, which in Europe would probably be in the low tens of millions to, at most, $100M, is going to cost a hell of a lot more under MTA supervision. Remember, MTA also thinks that an outdoor elevator that goes between two levels costs $10M. Not to mention, federal funding is slanted against New York (because if it was simply cost per rider, we'd be getting all the money), so there's that.

 

Not to mention the line'll probably have a bunch of Yorkshire Towers-style lawsuits since it runs extremely close to their property, no matter how much of a legal right that (MTA) or the City has to the land.

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Wasn't the Rockaway Line still in servicce when the IND took over?

 

 

Glitches galore.

 

Anyway bobtehpanda: That ROW originally was built in 1892 by the LIRR (The BRT/BMT actually also utilized this line for a short period of time as well, all in the books). The Long Island Railroad as a result deemed that line unrepairable and useless in 1950 due to a fire destroying the original area up to the Broad Channel as mentioned and went in favor of the land route to the Rockaways instead. The city purchased the line in 1950. In 1956, the Independent Subway System operators hired contractors, dismantled or/and piled ballast over the near destroyed trestle portions and rebuilt the stations or constructed new ones, the at grade sections with new electronic equipment and rail for IND subway service, also acquiring part of the BMT Fulton elevated in the process to connect both corridors to the Fulton Street Subway to Mott and Rockaway Parkway (And Lefferts via the former BMT elevated).

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