New Queens Subway line to relieve congestion on the IND QBL on hitlist for councilman Leroy Comrie

[Vistausss]

Not per day, per hour. Bogota, Colombia, manages 40K an hour, but this is with two lanes, express passing buses, and double articulated Volvos. They can barely handle this amount, and this is with buses running every 30 seconds - any closer and you'd get a lot of knock-on delays.

 

Well, in Utrecht in rush hour there's also the 12x which skips some stops so it's basically every 15-30 seconds in rush hour. I don't know what the total amount per day is but given the fact that both the 12 and in rush hour the 12x run that frequency and I've been on those lines more than once where you really had to push to get in (like in that video of the Japanese train pushers) I'd say it's at least very near to 30k per day.

[Wallyhorse]

We need an extension to Francis Lewis via the LIRR ROW already. The Q85 can be sooo slow, sometimes (read: most of the time).

My plan for doing such would be to have it run along its current underground route, then have it go on Hempstead Avenue to a terminal inside Belmont Park if possible.  The idea would be for Belmont Park to become a 24/7 Park & Ride (EXCEPT on Belmont Stakes Day and a handful of other days) with potentially a mini-yard further inside Belmont that can double as a barebones station that can be used on Belmont Stakes day and certain other days.

 

By the time this would happen, if it did at all, Belmont Park would likely be a Racino.

[Vistausss]

@Wallyhorse: *If* we were to do it your way then why not simply lay an extra track for the subway to Belmont and convert the current 6-track LIRR terminal there to part subway and part LIRR terminal?

[Wallyhorse]

If they can do that, I'd be looking at doing so if possible.  Even on Belmont Day, the LIRR really only needs two of the tracks there (and especially if there is also subway service there).  There are enough other tracks there that four of them can be used for terminating the and the rest for the LIRR (as this can be a Park & Ride for BOTH the and LIRR).

[itmaybeokay]

Adding a spur to an already over-capacity line makes no sense, i.e. the Rockaway Line reactivation won't work. 

 

 

Actually, adding a spur WOULD make sense. The Local tracks of QBL still have capacity - the issue is terminal capacity. Add another terminal and you can re-extend the G or add another local line to QBL. 

 

 

They really need more service on QBL Local... The service is terrible on weekends. Even extending the to 71 on Weekends with 12 minute headways is better then just the alone... 

It's frustrating waiting at Woodhaven Blvd (which is about as busy as an express station) and seeing 3-4 express trains pass in the direction you're going. 

Not only that, most of the time the Jamaica bound platform at Roosevelt Avenue gets packed on the local side. It is also frustrating to see about 4-5 express trains come in when finally one local comes in, and sometimes by that time you have to wait for the next train.

 

The worst has to be late night just before 12 am, when the last few s come to Roosevelt going to 71. Usually its about 10 express train per 1 local train at Roosevelt, and the platform gets dangerously packed. People get pissed off when over and over they hear "There is a Queens bound express train one station away," and then a big sigh of relief when it says "There is a Queens bound local train one station away". The problem there is you can't wait for the next local or you'll be waiting for 15-20 minutes, so everyone has to pack onto the train. It basically looks like Rush Hour crowds... at 12 AM. Now that's sad.

 

/\ this

 

There's a time at about 11 on saturdays where it's 25 minutes between when the R stops and the E starts running local. I call it the "Shit Interval"

[realizm]

Nassau buses are closed-door in Queens (they won't drop off going east and they won't pick up going west)

 

 

FRA guidelines only says that they can't share tracks. If you disconnect the LIRR ROW (which is certainly doable, since Far Rockaway trains can get shoved onto the St. Albans tracks without any notable decrease in frequency), then it's fine. Most of Triboro RX has space for four-tracks in the right-of-way, which is also technically permissible since subway lines already run alongside railroad tracks in other cities.

 

 

-LIRR is not frequent or cheap enough for the majority of Queens residents to consider using (and that's the point of the fares, because a surprising amount of suburbanites think the city is this dangerous ghetto full of minorities). If I can save $7 using NYCT and MTAB instead of the LIRR, I'm going to do it, because $7 is more than enough to buy a nice lunch. You are correct with the Rockaway reactivation though - it's a bad idea for the same reason that Queensway is a bad idea (It is surrounded by parkland and no one's going to use it).

 

 

OK, good info. +1.

 

Refresh my memory, it was just politics (i.e. Nimby's) that killed this project, complications with Conrail (Conrail was it?), or what that killed the project? This is a good point you brought up, I would like to go further into this....

[bobtehpanda]

OK, good info. +1.

 

Refresh my memory, it was just politics (i.e. Nimby's) that killed this project, complications with Conrail (Conrail was it?), or what that killed the project? This is a good point you brought up, I would like to go further into this....

 

Fiscal crisis.

$$$ is always the issue in this city.

[bobtehpanda]

My plan for doing such would be to have it run along its current underground route, then have it go on Hempstead Avenue to a terminal inside Belmont Park if possible.  The idea would be for Belmont Park to become a 24/7 Park & Ride (EXCEPT on Belmont Stakes Day and a handful of other days) with potentially a mini-yard further inside Belmont that can double as a barebones station that can be used on Belmont Stakes day and certain other days.

 

By the time this would happen, if it did at all, Belmont Park would likely be a Racino.

 

Oh for cryin out loud...

 

No lot you build would ever be big enough for a SE Queens Park and Ride - there are simply too many people in the area.

You also lose pretty much every advantage of using LIRR ROW by going underground the entire way...

and extending the basically makes extending the untenable, since there isn't enough demand for the both of them to suck up.

 

The should go down Merrick and the should go down Hillside. The LIRR ROWs are too inconvenient to the pedestrian and road network, and avoid most commercial activity on the arterials.

[4P3607]

Actually, adding a spur WOULD make sense. The Local tracks of QBL still have capacity - the issue is terminal capacity. Add another terminal and you can re-extend the G or add another local line to QBL. 

 

 

 

/\ this

 

There's a time at about 11 on saturdays where it's 25 minutes between when the R stops and the E starts running local. I call it the "Shit Interval"

Yup, The sad part is that it's not the gap between service ending and the starting, its the taking 20 minutes to come. They really need to do something there, at least start send s via local a little earlier.

[NewFlyer 230]

The needs to run on Queens Blvd on the weekends. The is too slow and infrequent and many people skip the to take the and the which are already crowded. What I don't get is why isn't another local on the line on the weekends or even late nights everyday.

The I would not have return there because it has all its own problems like not serving Manhattan, only having 4 cars, and it runs on 10-20 minute headways. I think before the decides to create a new route they should see what can be currently fixed. That's is why the can be of great use if it ran on Queens Blvd at all times because that little Myrtle shuttle is useless. Another thing that can help is add LTD on the Q60 and have it run all day. Local service effects how reliable Express service is. If the Local service is slow and unfrequent of course the Express Line will be slow and very crowded.

[RollOver]

You gotta remember though, the has the current weekend subway service in present to accommodate weekend G.O.. Hence the being cut back to Court Square all the time. The had already suffered frequent service shutdowns between 71st Avenue and Court Square whenever a weekend G.O required the and to run local or the to run express on the QB Line - as they can't have all four services on one single track, then they'll have to end up lowering the headways down to 15-20 minutes.

 

Another large part is that as long as they keep trains crowded, that's how the saves money which is logical and simple. Also, I don't really think there's a need for another local during the night hours. The alone as the Queens Boulevard Local (as well as the alone as the continuity 24/7 Queens Boulevard Express) is fine as is.

[realizm]

Fiscal crisis.

$$$ is always the issue in this city.

 

I found an interesting read on this site on that issue with the Triboro RX proposal:

 

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/04/5772951/surprising-return-three-borough-x-line-subway

 

As follows:

 

 

Aside from the question of financing—no number has been put on just how much this project would cost—there are other potential hang-ups. First, Stringer’s proposal could conflict with his political mentor Rep. Jerry Nadler’s longstanding desire to see the Bay Ridge railyard used as the terminus of a cross-harbor freight tunnel. Further, the Federal Railroad Administration requires a certain distance between freight and passenger trains that share rights of way, and it's not clear whether the existing right of way is, legally, wide enough.

 

“So the question is whether the F.R.A. criteria can be overcome,” says Zupan.

 

 

In an email, M.T.A. spokesman Adam Lisberg said the authority has more pressing concerns.

 

“MTA never formally backed it, and the whole 40th-anniversary package it was part of has long since been set aside as we deal with our current financial situation,” he said.

 

This all confirms what you are saying in your previous posts to a tee.

[realizm]

Actually, adding a spur WOULD make sense. The Local tracks of QBL still have capacity - the issue is terminal capacity. Add another terminal and you can re-extend the G or add another local line to QBL.

Yes, I agree. Terminal capacity problems.

 

Furthermore as another example planners who originally made the preliminary designs for the Queens Super Express plotted the line to bypass 71st St from the LIRR main line and reconnect @ the vicinity of Union Turnpike utilizing the existing spurs there, instead of going through the hassle of plans to connect that line at 71st Street. Again because of capacity issues. This is just a theory on my part. (We know that much of what the MTA does many times and why is a muystery to many straphangers and railfans alike, forcing us to speculate and brainstorm to come up with possible answers.)

 

Essenstially what you are saying is that if capacity issues was not a problem then we would be seeing , and trains terminating at 71st-Forest Hills, something that we both know is simply not feasible.

 

A spur would make sense, or else why would the IND build that existing spur from Rego park in the first place following anticipated second system plans for the Rockaways in the first place? That's how I look at it.....

[Culver]

Something I made a while back. Simple thing combining 1968 plan and Rockaway ROW. Not even my idea really since planners in the 60's had the super-express idea. This would use the 5th and 6th tracks (currently just ballast) on the LIRR embankment (to be separated by fence per FRA rules). The only difficult part of this plan would be connection to IND Forest Hills station with a short tunnel under Yellowstone.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202807188220210378870.0004b6300a5119de15090&msa=0&ll=40.785481,-73.918419&spn=0.15675,0.308647

[realizm]

 The only difficult part of this plan would be connection to IND Forest Hills station with a short tunnel under Yellowstone.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202807188220210378870.0004b6300a5119de15090&msa=0&ll=40.785481,-73.918419&spn=0.15675,0.308647

 

I like your proposed route, but yeah, as you mentioned in so many words, the problem with bottlenecking at 71st St is the monkey in the wrench. I guess that is why the MTA capitol construction plannersd decided to go for the bypass to connect past Union Tpke utilizing the spurs past Union Tpke Jamaica bound. Whoever the artitechts were who designed this on blueprint are geniuses, they anticipated what we are seeing now, the problems that could occur decades later!

 

Source: Second Ave Sagas:

 

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/12/07/transit-fantasyland-improving-service-across-nyc/

[R32 3838]

If people don't like it, the J/Z is the answer, the J/Z will get you to lower Manhattan faster than the E during the am rush, simple make the E local on weekends

[qjtransitmaster]

Nassau buses are closed-door in Queens (they won't drop off going east and they won't pick up going west)

 

 

FRA guidelines only says that they can't share tracks. If you disconnect the LIRR ROW (which is certainly doable, since Far Rockaway trains can get shoved onto the St. Albans tracks without any notable decrease in frequency), then it's fine. Most of Triboro RX has space for four-tracks in the right-of-way, which is also technically permissible since subway lines already run alongside railroad tracks in other cities.

 

 

-LIRR is not frequent or cheap enough for the majority of Queens residents to consider using (and that's the point of the fares, because a surprising amount of suburbanites think the city is this dangerous ghetto full of minorities). If I can save $7 using NYCT and MTAB instead of the LIRR, I'm going to do it, because $7 is more than enough to buy a nice lunch. You are correct with the Rockaway reactivation though - it's a bad idea for the same reason that Queensway is a bad idea (It is surrounded by parkland and no one's going to use it).

 

The only feasible connection for Queensway is to QBL local, which will allow trains to avoid the congested Forest Hills terminal, but the idea becomes a lot less attractive once that becomes clear.

 

-It's quite clear that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to FRA regulations...

Crackpot ideas like a rail tunnel to SI and a rail ferry (to cross what body of water? RX is mostly for the Bronx and Brooklyn/Queens, but Brooklyn/Queens is the easiest segment to start and I've no idea where exactly they want it to go in the Bronx...)

 

-Queens needs subway level capacity, not a busway...

A subway in New York can move 60K-80K people per hour, and possibly even more.  The busiest BRT systems in the world only manage 30K people per hour, and that's with two lanes in each direction, dedicated ROW, and double-articulated buses.

 

Not to mention, there's no good place for a western terminus of an LIE busway, since the Queens Midtown Tunnel is only two lanes in each direction, and there's no room to expand any part of the LIE without destroying a lot of houses.

 

 

Unfortunately, IND squandered a lot more money than necessary on screwing over the IRT/BMT...

(There's also a portal for a Horace Harding Line, which is never happening, and everybody knows about S 4th St)

 

 

Not at all... service is erratically scheduled, even off-peak, in-city stations are not all full-length, and prices are ridiculous for just commuting in the city.

 

Western terminus simple the Busway will get off the LIE to the BQE buses would exit the busway then enter a HOV spur onward to queens midtown tunnel to go to manhattan. The Busway would have bus routes stopping at williamsburg (long-term) also it will have QM downtown service rerouted via the BQE busway and manhattan bridge or Hugh cary tunnel they will serve stations at williamsburg and dumbo. Other buses from say navy yard would connect at the station at dumbo Or Brooklyn bridge park to the other buses then head down the gowanus. It of course ends at bay ridge all buses on their own after 3rd ave or belt parkway split and will just exit into mixed traffic to continue on their routes. The final terminal for the busway itself would be sunset park. Or red hook smith-9th a transfer passage under the boarding platform would link to the Smith-9th subway station. SI express buses would use the busway as well as the X28/27/38/37. Q70 would eventually be modified to use it and QM downtown services may be rerouted to use it as well after the busway gets full build. It would carry several bus lines at once and may test the limits of the Queens express bus network. Unlike the subway it is geared toward outerborough travel and in a sense crosstown travel that is faster and more direct than the and reaches more areas.

Basically 2 BRT as in long haul full BRTs can be made and one full-time HOV for the harlem river or I-87 to speed up BXM1 and 3 service. maybe even FDR south of 34th street but that may not be needed.

Oh for cryin out loud...

 

No lot you build would ever be big enough for a SE Queens Park and Ride - there are simply too many people in the area.

You also lose pretty much every advantage of using LIRR ROW by going underground the entire way...

and extending the basically makes extending the untenable, since there isn't enough demand for the both of them to suck up.

 

The should go down Merrick and the should go down Hillside. The LIRR ROWs are too inconvenient to the pedestrian and road network, and avoid most commercial activity on the arterials.

I have to agree fully with this.

[Culver]

I like your proposed route, but yeah, as you mentioned in so many words, the problem with bottlenecking at 71st St is the monkey in the wrench. I guess that is why the MTA capitol construction plannersd decided to go for the bypass to connect past Union Tpke utilizing the spurs past Union Tpke Jamaica bound. Whoever the artitechts were who designed this on blueprint are geniuses, they anticipated what we are seeing now, the problems that could occur decades later!

 

Source: Second Ave Sagas:

 

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/12/07/transit-fantasyland-improving-service-across-nyc/

Yeah, that solution is better. Add the Rockaway thing to that plan and it's grand. Never happen, though. Even the people who would most benefit would rather take a cramped train with their face in someone's armpit than go through the horrors of construction.

[realizm]

Yeah, that solution is better. Add the Rockaway thing to that plan and it's grand. Never happen, though. Even the people who would most benefit would rather take a cramped train with their face in someone's armpit than go through the horrors of construction.

 

lol

 

 

...... or a cramped train with some straphanger with horrible bad breath that could kill a thousand elves. I actually gave a passenger some gum one time for his bad breath cause he was all in my face breathing poisonous vapors that smelled like ass in my face. I was dying on that train, I had a bad day at work at that hellish IT helpdesk as it is, let alone some dude who forgot to brush his teeth breathing down my neck *puff* huff* *huff* my god ............

[RollOver]

simple make the E local on weekends

 

Nope.

[DanTheTransitMan]

If people don't like it, the J/Z is the answer, the J/Z will get you to lower Manhattan faster than the E during the am rush, simple make the E local on weekends

Have you set foot on the E train during the weekends? Do you know how many people use it? Do you know what SRO means? If you've answered no to all of these questions chances are you don't know what your talking about which is apparent because only a fool would suggest something like this.

[bobtehpanda]

If people don't like it, the J/Z is the answer, the J/Z will get you to lower Manhattan faster than the E during the am rush, simple make the E local on weekends

 

No, because nearly every station on the J/Z is falling apart. Even Sutphin/Archer on the is held together with plywood and duct tape while the level is completely nice and clean for all the tourists.

[realizm]

No, because nearly every station on the J/Z is falling apart. Even Sutphin/Archer on the is held together with plywood and duct tape while the level is completely nice and clean for all the tourists.

 

Damn. It got that bad?

[Fresh Pond]

Damn. It got that bad?

A little over exaggerated but it does need a little touch up here and there

[realizm]

A little over exaggerated but it does need a little touch up here and there

 

Gotcha.