Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
realizm

Brooklyn Eagle: (M) train helped to gentrify Bushwick

Recommended Posts

Screen%20Shot%202013-05-30%20at%201.42.2

An M train enters the Central Ave Station. (Credits: TLK in 3, as posted in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle)

 

The MTA’s reroute of the (M) train utilizing the Christie St connection to Midtown on the 6th Ave line to Forest Hills along the Queens Blvd Line back in 2010 in the wake of massive budget cuts and elimination of services such as the (V) and the (W) along with a plethora of bus route changes literally "erased the invisible barrier that Myrtle Avenue—the area hit hardest by arson fires in the late  1970s—posed for years" according to real estate experts in a recent report from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle.

  .

States Andrew Clemens, director of retail leasing for the Massey Knakal, real estate brokerage firm. “It’s all based on the transit system,”  “The proximity to Union Square on the L train made Williamsburg attractive. Now proximity to midtown on the M train is driving the south Bushwick market.”

 

Over the last five years many NY'ers are noticing an extremely rapid change in the neighborhood of Bushwick, from the underdeveloped blocks of abandoned lots and burned out buildings of the 80's into a lively multicultural neighborhood bustling with activity and economic development.

 

According to MTA statistics posted on mta.info, between 2011 and 2012, daily ridership at the Central Avenue Station on the (M) skyrocketed 11.5 percent, (The article in the Brooklyn Eagle claims a 18.7% jump in 2011-2012, in terms of the numbers of daily passengers, 2,903 to 3,445 straphangers, a dramatic increase. If anyone can confirm these numbers for us as correct it would be greatly appreciated)

 

This improvement in the quality in this now lively neighborhood does indeed come with a heavy price: An incredible rise in real estate values. Resulting in rapid increases in rent topping almost 23 percent in the first three months of this year alone! According to real estate brokers the cost of rent has risen 17.2 percent when compared to the same period in 2012.

 

Juan Yambo, 46, who works in a barbershop on Suydam Street expresses his concerns regarding rising rental prices: “I think sometimes, where do people go? How can they afford to live here?”

 

Thoughts?

 

Source: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/how-m-train-gentrifying-bushwick-2013-05-30-171500

Edited by realizm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(M) train or not, that place is still a ways away from gentrifying.  Bushwick doesn't have any nice water views so I think it will take a bit longer.  I was there last year to attend an event at a school for a friend who teaches in the area and was surprised to see hipsters and whites there.  It still is rather run down in parts and rather eery so it's certainly in transition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have to question the viewpoint given in the article myself, despite my neutral tone of the commentary I wrote in the thread starter myself. Here's a basis for discussion: As the gentrification process apparently began in Brooklyn even before the service cut that became the all time hit called the (M) 6th Ave local, say that the MTA did not initiate the budget cuts in 2010, how can it be that according to the article that it was solely the (M) that initiated the gentrification process? It was already ongoing to begin with. Of course I am not questioning the fact that the reroute of the (M) is indeed contributing to the increase.....

 

Also in the same article I am also questioning the stats in ridership at Central Avenue. I did not see a 18.7% jump in ridership. If I'm reading this correctly, on the MTA website, the spreadsheet cites a 11.5% increase in ridership (annual) for the 2011-2012 period. But that's after the fact anyway I guess. Can anyone elaborate on this with some fact checking? Because we all know how congested the (L) is on the BMT 14th Ave/Carnarsie line. Not to mention the numerous GO's. Perhaps that may have something to do with the huge jump in ridership?

 

Indeed there is an influx of people from the Midwestern US in particular settling down in Brooklyn in general (i.e hipsters) , and in high numbers, however I don't exactly recall seeing that the last time I was in Bushwick specifically, Williamsburg however, absolutely, and this was pretty recently. The process is certaintly in transistion however I agree. I'll need to take a closer look at the demographic information as time permits and as the discussion progresses in whatever way it does, but yes I noticed for a good while now that there is an increase in White Americans and Latino-Americans that are moving into the area. Apparently also Asian Americans from out of state as well for that matter from what I've personally observed.

 

Personally speaking now,  what I am very much concerned about the rapidly rising real estate values resulting in high costs of rent that to me can be alarming. On this particular point as far as rising real estate values in Bushwick I'll admit I am speaking from a subjective standpoint, I think it's insane. So where are the lower economic class residents who resided in the area for years on end supposed to go? Gentrification has it's good points in terms of pushing for economic development but it certaintly does not help the poor in the least.

Edited by realizm
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(M) train or not, that place is still a ways away from gentrifying.  Bushwick doesn't have any nice water views so I think it will take a bit longer.  I was there last year to attend an event at a school for a friend who teaches in the area and was surprised to see hipsters and whites there.  It still is rather run down in parts and rather eery so it's certainly in transition.

Coney Island would like a word with you sir because that line makes no sense whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coney Island would like a word with you sir because that line makes no sense whatsoever.

Water views are always desirable.  That's why Coney Island is gentrifying.  The only part that's still in the pits is mainly by the projects, but the cops patrol all over down there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(M) train or not, that place is still a ways away from gentrifying.  Bushwick doesn't have any nice water views so I think it will take a bit longer.  I was there last year to attend an event at a school for a friend who teaches in the area and was surprised to see hipsters and whites there.  It still is rather run down in parts and rather eery so it's certainly in transition.

 

Indeed. It still has ways to grow as beautiful as your Riverdale.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Water views are always desirable.  That's why Coney Island is gentrifying.  The only part that's still in the pits is mainly by the projects, but the cops patrol all over down there.  

Coney Island, gentrifying? L M A O. Yeah right. 80% of the neighborhood is project and whatever isn't is just as bad. And the cops only patrol because of a certain murder that happened a few months ago where some old woman was robbed and killed. The last time there was this much of a police presence was in either 2010 or 2011 where there were 6 murders in 6 weeks. 

 

Coney Island gentrifying, hehe, adorable. My family has been there since sometime around 1976. Yes it's gotten better over the years, but at the same time, has gotten worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coney Island, gentrifying? L M A O. Yeah right. 80% of the neighborhood is project and whatever isn't is just as bad. And the cops only patrol because of a certain murder that happened a few months ago where some old woman was robbed and killed. The last time there was this much of a police presence was in either 2010 or 2011 where there were 6 murders in 6 weeks. 

 

Coney Island gentrifying, hehe, adorable. My family has been there since sometime around 1976. Yes it's gotten better over the years, but at the same time, has gotten worse.

Well that's my point... The projects will hinder gentrification to a degree but it is happening down there.  Some of the blacks and Latinos are being replaced by the Russians.  You also have a lot of tourists down there now, so the cop presence didn't just start.  It's been down there for a while now going back to when I would take the X28 down there to reach the boardwalk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's my point... The projects will hinder gentrification to a degree but it is happening down there.  Some of the blacks and Latinos are being replaced by the Russians.  You also have a lot of tourists down there now, so the cop presence didn't just start.  It's been down there for a while now going back to when I would take the X28 down there to reach the boardwalk.

The Russians have always been there. It's called Sea Gate and Luna Park Towers. When it wasn't them, it was the Italian Mobsters. Whos kids did you think were chasing the blacks out of Bensonhurst and the area around Stillwell Terminal? Russians coming in don't mean a thing. That's normal.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LMAO! NOTHING compares to my Riverdale. NOTHING!  :P   :lol:

 

And I thought I was bad bragging about my beloved state of Maryland with every three posts I submit on this site. lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Russians have always been there. It's called Sea Gate and Luna Park Towers. When it wasn't them, it was the Italian Mobsters. Whos kids did you think were chasing the blacks out of Bensonhurst and the area around Stillwell Terminal? Russians coming in don't mean a thing. That's normal.

Please.  The Russians were not moving into the projects like that before.  Russians coming in means something because they can't all flock to Brighton Beach.  Russians are moving out to Long Island and other places, so it isn't about them moving there but rather their numbers increasing.  That's my point.  The projects down in Coney Island have been filled by blacks and Latinos (mainly Puerto Ricans), and both groups have been leaving NYC.  Now some that can't leave are staying but over the last several years, both groups numbers have decreased overall in NYC.  Apparently you haven't been paying much attention.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coney Island is hardly in the stages of gentrification when you can wake up and find stuff from McDonald's on your front door (mostly the wrappers and cups) in the morning. I would elaborate more, but I've got little good to say about the kind of people who roam the streets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you wanna talk about gentrification there's good old Long Island City... All kinds of high rises have been popping up with amazing speed.

 

How do they do it? I'll never know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you wanna talk about gentrification there's good old Long Island City... All kinds of high rises have been popping up with amazing speed.

 

How do they do it? I'll never know. 

They do it usually by literally pricing out many residents by raising real estate prices and rental rates in the area, which in turn forces out many of the original tenants in the area, leaving them to find residence elsewhere.

 

Usually after the process the actual "gentrification" occurs, and following along is a fair influx of hipsters people who are arriving to ruin alter the community and eventually inhabit take residence there.

 

It's really a f**ked up if you view it in that perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They do it usually by literally pricing out many residents by raising real estate prices and rental rates in the area, which in turn forces out many of the original tenants in the area, leaving them to find residence elsewhere.

 

Usually after the process the actual "gentrification" occurs, and following along is a fair influx of hipsters people who are arriving to ruin alter the community and eventually inhabit take residence there.

 

It's really a f**ked up if you view it in that perspective.

I work with a guy that actually does this, so I should know better than most people… He rents places out only to hipsters (who are very willing to pay any price). To other real estate folks, he gives advice on getting old buildings torn down and building new ones; that advice pretty much agrees with your post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work with a guy that actually does this, so I should know better than most people… He rents places out only to hipsters (who are very willing to pay any price). To other real estate folks, he gives advice on getting old buildings torn down and building new ones; that advice pretty much agrees with your post.

How f**ked up. Well I guess people will be willing to pay any price, given the expense is covered by their second trust fund that the parents provided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Face it. According to the 2010 census the white population is growing in New York City. I am certain 20 years from now New York City will be predominately white as most of the minorities in the city will move to the Sun Belt and most of the whites from the Midwest will flood into the city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Face it. According to the 2010 census the white population is growing in New York City. I am certain 20 years from now New York City will be predominately white as most of the minorities in the city will move to the Sun Belt and most of the whites from the Midwest will flood into the city.

 

Almost 90% of the things you are certain of are f*ckin' hilarious. SMH.

  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coney Island is hardly in the stages of gentrification when you can wake up and find stuff from McDonald's on your front door (mostly the wrappers and cups) in the morning. I would elaborate more, but I've got little good to say about the kind of people who roam the streets.

Gentrification would more likely refer to the residential sections, and no, that is probably not happening yet, though they are finally getting to the amusement area (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/coney-island-times-sq-sea-article-1.1370782), but when that is done, then the residential areas will become attractive for gentrification.

 

(Now, wishing they would start looking into Flatbush with all these majestic lowrise buildings).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work with a guy that actually does this, so I should know better than most people… He rents places out only to hipsters (who are very willing to pay any price). To other real estate folks, he gives advice on getting old buildings torn down and building new ones; that advice pretty much agrees with your post.

 

To be fairly honest, real estate has been doing clearing out like this for years, starting in the 60s...

 

They'd scare all the white people in a neighborhood by telling them a black family moved in and was going to cause their property values to crash. They then fire-sold their houses and fled for the suburbs, and the realtors sold the houses to unsuspecting blacks at prices way above market value. This was outlawed, but I don't think there are rules in place to stop it from happening again after deregulation...

 

Face it. According to the 2010 census the white population is growing in New York City. I am certain 20 years from now New York City will be predominately white as most of the minorities in the city will move to the Sun Belt and most of the whites from the Midwest will flood into the city.

 

I don't know what kind of Census you were reading, but to give you an idea of how wrong this is:

 

  • The count of Asians in this city has reached 1 million (and is probably an undercount, since a lot of Asians in New York, and a lot of people in general, are either undocumented or live in illegally subdivided units, or both.)
  • 33% of children under the age of 5 are of Asian descent.

 

With those numbers, whites are not going to remain a majority for very long. (Also keep in mind that the Census double counts people of mixed heritage, and for some reason counts Arabs as white, and some Hispanics, so the numbers for whites are a bit inflated.)

 

Gentrification would more likely refer to the residential sections, and no, that is probably not happening yet, though they are finally getting to the amusement area (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/coney-island-times-sq-sea-article-1.1370782), but when that is done, then the residential areas will become attractive for gentrification.

 

(Now, wishing they would start looking into Flatbush with all these majestic lowrise buildings).

 

If it's staying on Stillwell, the gentrification has quite a ways to go, since the amusement area goes down to at least the Aquarium stop.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Face it. According to the 2010 census the white population is growing in New York City. I am certain 20 years from now New York City will be predominately white as most of the minorities in the city will move to the Sun Belt and most of the whites from the Midwest will flood into the city.

 

That's impossible. Where do you get this information from? You really should'nt just make presumptions.

 

The minority populations are growing. One of the fastest areas of growth is Flushing, where there is a rapid influx of East Asians and South Asians. Jamaica is another rapid area of multicultural growth, with many persons from South Asia and Southeast Asia moving in the area. Yet another area is Bay riddge in brooklyn with may persons from Yemen and Turkey moving in the area opening up businesses, in fact we already have many middle-eastern Americans, first gen, who are establishing themselves as US citizens. Another area is the Bronx, where the Latino Americans are on the rise, in fact they are the fastest moving minority group in the nation next to Afro-Americans, rapidly on the rise, then Asian Americans. There are alot of interracial families now having children and the baby boomers are now mostly retired. Most people may I add by 2050 will be of mixed descent such as yours truly.

 

Most sociologists stated that by 2050 Caucasians will be in the minority and will have to be considered minorities, not the majority ethnic group. Yes, right here in the US.

 

Man even according to the 2010 US Census, the facts and figures proves exactly so. I really cannot understand where you are getting these erroneous conclusions from.

 

 

Of course there are an influx of people from the midwest coming in the city evolving into the hipster subculture residing in NYC ( I made that statement pages ago before you started posting) but the minority groups are growing at an even FASTER rate. Period. Google it.

Edited by realizm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coney Island is hardly in the stages of gentrification when you can wake up and find stuff from McDonald's on your front door (mostly the wrappers and cups) in the morning. I would elaborate more, but I've got little good to say about the kind of people who roam the streets.

It may not be gentrification because all of the projects, but displacement is happening down there to a degree.  The Russians coming down there may be the poor ones that can't afford much, but they are coming.  

 

 

Gentrification would more likely refer to the residential sections, and no, that is probably not happening yet, though they are finally getting to the amusement area (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/coney-island-times-sq-sea-article-1.1370782), but when that is done, then the residential areas will become attractive for gentrification.

 

(Now, wishing they would start looking into Flatbush with all these majestic lowrise buildings).

I would say displacement is happening to a degree, though it's slow due to so many housing projects, but let's remember how bad the projects were and where they are now.  Gentrification won't happen down there until you start seeing the banks and the other necessities there to spur gentrification.  For now it's being set up.  When you start seeing heavy police presence and whites the way I have down there you know the area is bound to start changing sooner or later because let's face it, whites are not going to go anywhere where their safety is in danger unless they feel some sense of security with police being present.

 

We used to go to Coney Island for years and it was always known that you didn't walk past the amusement park area.  Now I see whites going for walks deep into Coney Island and "exploring" if you will.  You've got the water right there, the amusement park is being revived and it is destine to be a new hot spot now with the investment going on down there, so as you said the residential area at some point will turn around.  The real question is will they do anything with those housing projects? If they tore those down, forget it.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may not be gentrification because all of the projects, but displacement is happening down there to a degree.  The Russians coming down there may be the poor ones that can't afford much, but they are coming.  

 

As well as Brighton Beach (for the record for the guests that is following this discussion on this site). Absolutely. All one has to do is head down to South Brooklyn and check out the scene, the Russian presence is strong and crystal clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.