Brooklyn Eagle: (M) train helped to gentrify Bushwick

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As well as Brighton Beach (for the record for the guests that is following this discussion on this site). Absolutely. All one has to do is head down to South Brooklyn and check out the scene, the Russian presence is strong and crystal clear.

Yep... And they're finally starting to rebuild parts of Brighton Beach now too, but like I said before they can't all go to Brighton Beach.  They've pretty much taken over in Manhattan Beach and Sheepshead Bay a long time ago and Coney Island is perfect because it isn't as expensive... Yet.

 

You also have the Borough President hyping up Coney Island, so there is definitely a push to get that area revitalized again.  

[LTA1992]

Please.  The Russians were not moving into the projects like that before.  Russians coming in means something because they can't all flock to Brighton Beach.  Russians are moving out to Long Island and other places, so it isn't about them moving there but rather their numbers increasing.  That's my point.  The projects down in Coney Island have been filled by blacks and Latinos (mainly Puerto Ricans), and both groups have been leaving NYC.  Now some that can't leave are staying but over the last several years, both groups numbers have decreased overall in NYC.  Apparently you haven't been paying much attention.

Um no, we're talking about Coney, not NYC. As a former resident that stays over there a lot because all of his friends and some family are in the area, I can tell you that what you are saying is wrong IN THAT AREA. The Chinese tend to stay in the new houses along Mermaid Avenue. Most Hispanics and Latinos stay between Stillwell Avenue and 22nd Street. African-Americans are a majority from 23rd Street to 33rd. Russians are sprinkled in all over. Did I mention the crackheads and bums that reside on the corners of 16 and Mermaid as well as Stillwell and Mermaid? That's how it's always been according to the stories I hear from not only my family, but also people in the neighborhood. Before the new Houses along Mermaid Avenue came into existence in the 90s and 2000s, the Chinese also mostly stayed in the PJs. Though during the 70s and early 80s, Italian mobsters were around Stillwell Terminal as mentioned earlier. If you wanted to get home or to school, you had to make it past the white boys chasing you into the hood with bats and whatever else.

 

Coney Island isn't like most areas, just because an Amusement area is a stones throw away, does not mean the area can easily be gentrified. There are HUGE fights by the rides almost every weekend and are spilling out onto weeknights now that school is coming to a close. I can always say a fight is gonna happen when I see certain groups walk past my uncles Airbrush Tattoo stand. And I'm always right.

You have to fix or get rid of  the trouble causing youth before you can even think of gentrifying CI.

[realizm]

Um no, we're talking about Coney, not NYC. As a former resident that stays over there a lot because all of his friends and some family are in the area, I can tell you that what you are saying is wrong IN THAT AREA. The Chinese tend to stay in the new houses along Mermaid Avenue. Most Hispanics and Latinos stay between Stillwell Avenue and 22nd Street. African-Americans are a majority from 23rd Street to 33rd. Russians are sprinkled in all over. Did I mention the crackheads and bums that reside on the corners of 16 and Mermaid as well as Stillwell and Mermaid? That's how it's always been according to the stories I hear from not only my family, but also people in the neighborhood. Before the new Houses along Mermaid Avenue came into existence in the 90s and 2000s, the Chinese also mostly stayed in the PJs. Though during the 70s and early 80s, Italian mobsters were around Stillwell Terminal as mentioned earlier. If you wanted to get home or to school, you had to make it past the white boys chasing you into the hood with bats and whatever else.

 

Coney Island isn't like most areas, just because an Amusement area is a stones throw away, does not mean the area can easily be gentrified. There are HUGE fights by the rides almost every weekend and are spilling out onto weeknights now that school is coming to a close. I can always say a fight is gonna happen when I see certain groups walk past my uncles Airbrush Tattoo stand. And I'm always right.

You have to fix or get rid of  the trouble causing youth before you can even think of gentrifying CI.

 

VG8 is talking about Coney Island. Right in the post you responded to. Coney Island is a part of NYC, apparently according to maps.  I would imagine so because I am talking about Coney Island follwing along with this thoughts on the subject.

 

White boys chasing minorities with bats.... Why do you continue to entertain this non-issue? You did this twice. This is not the 80's, things has changed for the better in South Brooklyn in general. I never had any real problems with Italians as a former Boro Park/BK Chinatown resident. or the Afro-Americans in Coney Island for that matter. What is your point? Just say it!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Um no, we're talking about Coney, not NYC. As a former resident that stays over there a lot because all of his friends and some family are in the area, I can tell you that what you are saying is wrong IN THAT AREA. The Chinese tend to stay in the new houses along Mermaid Avenue. Most Hispanics and Latinos stay between Stillwell Avenue and 22nd Street. African-Americans are a majority from 23rd Street to 33rd. Russians are sprinkled in all over. Did I mention the crackheads and bums that reside on the corners of 16 and Mermaid as well as Stillwell and Mermaid? That's how it's always been according to the stories I hear from not only my family, but also people in the neighborhood. Before the new Houses along Mermaid Avenue came into existence in the 90s and 2000s, the Chinese also mostly stayed in the PJs. Though during the 70s and early 80s, Italian mobsters were around Stillwell Terminal as mentioned earlier. If you wanted to get home or to school, you had to make it past the white boys chasing you into the hood with bats and whatever else.

 

Coney Island isn't like most areas, just because an Amusement area is a stones throw away, does not mean the area can easily be gentrified. There are HUGE fights by the rides almost every weekend and are spilling out onto weeknights now that school is coming to a close. I can always say a fight is gonna happen when I see certain groups walk past my uncles Airbrush Tattoo stand. And I'm always right.

You have to fix or get rid of  the trouble causing youth before you can even think of gentrifying CI.

Read what I said... I never said the area was gentrifying. I said Russians are moving in... Didn't say they were moving in large numbers but they're moving there.

[realizm]

^^ Apparently some people do not read into posts carefully enough or just log on just for the sake of venting their anger and being arguementive instead of being civil in their discussions.

[LTA1992]

VG8 is talking about Coney Island. Right in the post you responded to. Coney Island is a part of NYC, apparently according to maps.  I would imagine so because I am talking about Coney Island follwing along with this thoughts on the subject.

 

White boys chasing minorities with bats.... Why do you continue to entertain this non-issue? You did this twice. This is not the 80's, things has changed for the better in South Brooklyn in general. I never had any real problems with Italians as a former Boro Park/BK Chinatown resident. or the Afro-Americans in Coney Island for that matter. What is your point? Just say it!

But NYC As a whole and one neighborhood are not the same thing. NYC as a whole are general numbers. There are areas that don't change. And if you wanna get technical, Caucasians are beginning to become the minority as a whole in the entire country. So what does that say for NYC? And do those numbers pertaining to the entire City actually show or exist in a certain neighbor\hood? Because I haven't seen the so called "change". Any tourist he spoke of walking into CI haven't truly walked into CI. They haven't SEEN it in its true form. Any Caucasians he's just now seeing there, living there, have been there for quite some time. Reproduced, and have kids who still live there.

[bobtehpanda]

slightly off topic (but then again so is this entire conversation) - does Coney Island have a BID? This seems like one of the places that definitely should have a BID.

[realizm]

But NYC As a whole and one neighborhood are not the same thing. NYC as a whole are general numbers. There are areas that don't change. And if you wanna get technical, Caucasians are beginning to become the minority as a whole in the entire country. So what does that say for NYC? And do those numbers pertaining to the entire City actually show or exist in a certain neighbor\hood? Because I haven't seen the so called "change". Any tourist he spoke of walking into CI haven't truly walked into CI. They haven't SEEN it in its true form. Any Caucasians he's just now seeing there, living there, have been there for quite some time. Reproduced, and have kids who still live there.

 

Ok. I think that is a valid opinion and proper assessment. Eastern Europeans had a presence in the Boro Park Area for a long time before the 8th Ave area became Brooklyn Chinatown starting in the early 80's for example. I saw it happen over time with my own two eyes. So yes, something to think about.

 

However, nethertheless, there is a new influx of Russians that are now coming in the second time around and now the Russian population is exploding into massive communities in NYC, in fact in other states altogether. Such as my state of residence, the Russians are settling in the counties in Maryland as well. It was'nt like that years ago, and I lived in Maryland before for almost a year 13 years ago, before moving back to the state of MD this year.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But NYC As a whole and one neighborhood are not the same thing. NYC as a whole are general numbers. There are areas that don't change. And if you wanna get technical, Caucasians are beginning to become the minority as a whole in the entire country. So what does that say for NYC? And do those numbers pertaining to the entire City actually show or exist in a certain neighbor\hood? Because I haven't seen the so called "change". Any tourist he spoke of walking into CI haven't truly walked into CI. They haven't SEEN it in its true form. Any Caucasians he's just now seeing there, living there, have been there for quite some time. Reproduced, and have kids who still live there.

Listen I grew up in Sheepshead Bay and went to school with some Eastern Europeans and I know what I'm talking about.  The area is far from gentrification, but there are whites (as in tourists and other explorers if you will) that I see down there, some even jogging and they certainly weren't Eastern Europeans either.  The police presence is down there for a reason. I saw the same thing in parts of Williamsburg and look at Williamsburg today.  Like I said, the area around the projects probably won't change for a while provided that they aren't torn down.

 

Ok. I think that is a valid opinion and proper assessment. Eastern Europeans had a presence in the Boro Park Area for a long time before the 8th Ave area became Brooklyn Chinatown starting in the early 80's for example. I saw it happen over time with my own two eyes. So yes, something to think about.

 

However, nethertheless, there is a new influx of Russians that are now coming in the second time around and now the Russian population is exploding into massive communities in NYC, in fact in other states altogether. Such as my state of residence, the Russians are settling in the counties in Maryland as well. It was'nt like that years ago, and I lived in Maryland before for almost a year 13 years ago.

Definitely the case. They are spreading out and more are still coming in because outside of the super wealthy Moscow, you still have poor parts of Russia.  I work with a few Russian translators and one guy moved to the Midwest.  You also have a lot moving to Long Island.

[bobtehpanda]

Listen I grew up in Sheepshead Bay and went to school with some Eastern Europeans and I know what I'm talking about.  The area is far from gentrification, but there are whites (as in tourists and other explorers if you will) that I see down there, some even jogging and they certainly weren't Eastern Europeans either.  The police presence is down there for a reason. I saw the same thing in parts of Williamsburg and look at Williamsburg today.  Like I said, the area around the projects probably won't change for a while provided that they aren't torn down.

 

He's right in that one aspect. Projects are considered such a blight that they pretty much prevent gentrification wherever they exist. That's why the LES, Williamsburg, and even Chelsea have untouched areas, because of the existence of projects (even if they're not actually dangerous.)

 

(This is also why Willets Point is such a stupid idea, because no one is going to walk west past the projects to get to a shopping mall. The single one they built is already failing, and is selling their condos for relatively low prices. To the rest of Flushing, not to the city.)

[realizm]

Projects are considered such a blight that they pretty much prevent gentrification wherever they exist. That's why the LES, Williamsburg, and even Chelsea have untouched areas, because of the existence of projects (even if they're not actually dangerous.)

 

 

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. That thought was on my mind and was about to post on that particular but you beat me to it. As there is an application freeze on the NYCHA projects as the complexes are overcrowded as it is as a result of the housing 'crisis' we are seeing in NYC (apparent by the higher numbers of exictions, higher rents, and higher rates of homelessness), I can't see the projects being demolished for a good long time.

 

 

 

Definitely the case. They are spreading out and more are still coming in because outside of the super wealthy Moscow, you still have poor parts of Russia.  I work with a few Russian translators and one guy moved to the Midwest.  You also have a lot moving to Long Island.

 

Absolutely. You would know as a former Sheepshead resident, another growing area with Russians settling there as well.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He's right in that one aspect. Projects are considered such a blight that they pretty much prevent gentrification wherever they exist. That's why the LES, Williamsburg, and even Chelsea have untouched areas, because of the existence of projects (even if they're not actually dangerous.)

 

(This is also why Willets Point is such a stupid idea, because no one is going to walk west past the projects to get to a shopping mall. The single one they built is already failing, and is selling their condos for relatively low prices. To the rest of Flushing, not to the city.)

To a degree... If they don't tear them down, they could also push out the problem tenants.  Believe it or not the Todt Hill projects on Staten Island weren't bad and you have nice houses nearby that were just fine.  I wouldn't personally live there but I never saw any sort of crime.  Just lots of black folks with the whole hanging pants and lower class/seedy ghetto white folks but I never felt concerned for my safety as I have on say the Grand Concourse.  

[realizm]

^^^ The Queensbridge projects, home to major pioneers in the Hip Hop Industry such as NAS and Mobb Deep are also very well maintained and the crime level I do not think is seriously high, as there is a high NYPD presence there. The buildings itself looks better then even some of the private apartment comlexes outside the LIC area in the so-called more affluent neighboorhoods.

 

I was'nt aware of the Todt Hill projects, you caught me by suprise on that one.

[LTA1992]

Took the words right out of my mouth. That thought was on my mind and was about to post on that particular but you beat me to it. As there is an application freeze on the NYCHA projects as the complexes are overcrowded as it is as a result of the housing 'crisis' we are seeing in NYC (apparent by the higher numbers of exictions, higher rents, and higher rates of homelessness), I can't see the projects being demolished for a good long time.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. You would know as a former Sheepshead resident, another growing area with Russians settling there as well.

Don't wanna change the subject, but when did NYCHA do this "Application Freeze"?

[realizm]

Don't wanna change the subject, but when did NYCHA do this "Application Freeze"?

 

No problem, you are definitely on topic on the gentrification issue, one of the solid main points of the OP. The freeze was established by City Hall in 2009.

[Cait Sith]

If you wanna talk about gentrification there's good old Long Island City... All kinds of high rises have been popping up with amazing speed.

 

How do they do it? I'll never know. 

Lets throw the Lower East Side & Chinatown into that list....

[LTA1992]

No problem, you are definitely on topic on the gentrification issue, one of the solid main points of the OP. The freeze was established by City Hall in 2009.

But applications are done all the time. Wouldn't a freeze indicate no more can be done for a set amount of time?

[realizm]

But applications are done all the time. Wouldn't a freeze indicate no more can be done for a set amount of time?

 

Well the applications submitted end up in pending status, so a single person or family with a low gross income can still apply and be approved but then put in a waiting list for vacancies.

[LTA1992]

Isn't that how it works already?

 

I did mine and I was told I could have a place in as little as 3 months if they have no reason to question me on the background check portion. But then again, I has special circumstances that make it easy.

[realizm]

Isn't that how it works already?

 

 

 

Exactly. It was designed that way, one of the reasons for the waiting lists being that the NYCTA has to control the overwhelming number of approved cases for city housing.

[bobtehpanda]

Lets throw the Lower East Side & Chinatown into that list....

 

Well yeah, but there are certain areas where most developers won't build in these areas (east of the bridge approaches).

 

Heck, there's some prime real estate right by the southern end of the High Line that hasn't been developed into expensive condos yet, because there are housing projects next door. I was in that area every day for three years, and not once was there a single crime. There's just so much stigma around the projects.

 

Isn't Harlem also starting to gentrify?

[LTA1992]

Exactly. It was designed that way, one of the reasons for the waiting lists being that the NYCTA has to control the overwhelming number of approved cases for city housing.

But that's the thing. From what I hear, Brooklyn and Manhattan have LONG waiting lists as compared to SI, Queens and The Bronx which don't. What's so great about Bklyn, I have no clue.

[bobtehpanda]

But that's the thing. From what I hear, Brooklyn and Manhattan have LONG waiting lists as compared to SI, Queens and The Bronx which don't. What's so great about Bklyn, I have no clue.

 

Queens doesn't have that many projects. You have Astoria, right next to a bunch of waste and coal plants, Flushing, which is close to a great hub but is also next to an industrial wasteland, and mostly senior citizens who won't budge, Jamaica, which is crime-ridden but slowly turning around, and Far Rock, which was abandoned for a good week or so after Sandy because no one could reach it. Also, Far Rock has to deal with LIPA, and it's possibly one of the few power agencies in the nation worse than Con Ed.

[SoSpectacular]

Well yeah, but there are certain areas where most developers won't build in these areas (east of the bridge approaches).

 

Heck, there's some prime real estate right by the southern end of the High Line that hasn't been developed into expensive condos yet, because there are housing projects next door. I was in that area every day for three years, and not once was there a single crime. There's just so much stigma around the projects.

 

Isn't Harlem also starting to gentrify?

 

You're right about the negativity that surrounds most housing projects- not all of them experience high crime rates like you say.

 

And as for Harlem, I've heard about some gentrification but I doubt it will spread out that far. 

[realizm]

 

And as for Harlem, I've heard about some gentrification but I doubt it will spread out that far. 

 

Confirmed. There are many Japanese settling in Harlem, and even as that is happening the local NY'ers in the area who are long time harlem residents are here to stay. It's a beautiful thing.