Staten Island lawmakers charge MTA will use inferior steel from China for Verrazano repair work

[theaveragejoe]

Says who? We need jobs here right now and since this is using U.S. taxpayer dollars, the company doing the work should be American hiring American workers and using American materials so that those funds are redistributed back here in the States.  You have no idea of how economics works because if you did, you would know that the Chinese can offer lower rates because they are purposely undervaluing their currency, which automatically makes their goods look cheaper, even if the quality is suspect, which is the case here.

 

I would like to know if you work for a living because if you do work, I'm sure you would have no problem with your job going overseas since you seem to have no problem with taxpayer dollars being used to support another country's economy and citizens.

 

 

North American steel industry did recall some workers after large layoff the past 5-10 years. Also btw There is No more large North Amercian steel companies they are fully owned by either Chinese, Russian or Indian companies.

 

But this does not solve the problem of outsourcing work to other countries while our own economy continues to reel because of the major companies purchasing foriegn made materials!

 

 

 

Bingo.

 

As you stated in the response these practices are destroying opportunities for jobs and ripping us off as taxpayers in the process from the costs of importing and indirectly from the problems concerning nationwide unemployment this also causes. Again what these US companies and agencies are doing is just flat out wrong and screams of corperate and goverment greed. Why do we have to suffer from this? Totally agree.

 

Explain why the unemployment number are dropping then?  

[Turbo19]

Stai' zitta!!  You have your doubts huh? They have a very valid reason to be concerned according to this article:

 

Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444270404577609103255397644.html

Alright, if those concerns truly are due to doubts of the integrity of the steel then they're justified. Otherwise I'll just dismiss them. After reading your article for the fourth time I suppose there may be some truth to the comments.

 

 

I think I already said my piece here.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Explain why the unemployment number are dropping then?  

Easy... A lot of it is due to people giving up because they can't find a job, not because the economy is doing so much better.  It's not exactly rocket science.  You need to create a certain amount of jobs while maintaining a certain amount of jobs and if you have more and more jobs going overseas that aren't being replaced, well then I think you can figure out what happens.  If you think the economy is doing so great, you can ask the recent college graduates why they can't find jobs.  I mean do you seriously think that you can just export millions of good paying jobs overseas and continue to replace those jobs with something else?

 

Somehow in this country we came to the conclusion that we can just export manufacturing jobs and they would be replaced by other high paying jobs.  Then those high paying jobs started going overseas too and now we're left with very little in between, with mostly low paying service jobs. It's really pathetic and the people that yell and scream about how it's no big deal are not out there trying to find a job.  

[realizm]

North American steel industry did recall some workers after large layoff the past 5-10 years. Also btw There is No more large North Amercian steel companies they are fully owned by either Chinese, Russian or Indian companies.

 

 

 

Explain why the unemployment number are dropping then?  

 

The US was in a de-institutionalization process of its manufacturing industry, leading to the loss of thousands of jobs due to the recession experienced in the 80's. Pittsburgh was most severly affected, with entire towns lost because of the closures of most of the steel mills. This was during the Reagan administration when he was US president. I used to live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 7 years ago to care for my stepdad. (yeah I lived in many locations in NYC and several states, always on the move). I am going to tell you that I personally heard the word from the locals in the town of Homestead, PA where the steel mills were stated this was also due to legal battles between the steel mill owners and it's unionized employees.

 

Easy... A lot of it is due to people giving up because they can't find a job, not because the economy is doing so much better.  It's not exactly rocket science.  You need to create a certain amount of jobs while maintaining a certain amount of jobs and if you have more and more jobs going overseas that aren't being replaced, well then I think you can figure out what happens.  If you think the economy is doing so great, you can ask the recent college graduates why they can't find jobs.

 

Posted at the same time to the minute. Exactly.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The US was in a de-institutionalization process of its manufacturing industry, leading to the loss of thousands of jobs due to the recession experienced in the 80's. Pittsburgh was most severly affected, with entire towns lost because of the closures of most of the steel mills. This was during the Reagan administration when he was US president. I used to live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 7 years ago to care for my stepdad. (yeah I lived in many locations in NYC and several states, always on the move). I am going to tell you that I personally heard the word from the locals in the town of Homestead, PA where the steel mills were stated this was also due to legal battles between the steel mill owners and it's unionized employees.

 

 

 

Posted at the same time to the minute. Exactly.

And what's worse is a lot of places in the U.S. (particularly in the South and Midwest depend on manufacturing and have seen towns literally crippled due to the loss of manufacturing as those places had nothing else to fall back on.  New York and California aren't areas with lots of manufacturing so here manufacturing losses have been replaced with things like finance, tourism and tech, but not all states and cities can do that. Just doesn't work that way and you can't just say well those jobs will be replaced with something else, because now and days they aren't.  The good old days when we were exporting jobs and still had lots of money to spend are over.  We're crippled with debt and a lot of it is due to the lack of manufacturing.  The Chinese economy continues to grow because they have manufacturing.

[theaveragejoe]

The US was in a de-institutionalization process of its manufacturing industry, leading to the loss of thousands of jobs due to the recession experienced in the 80's. Pittsburgh was most severly affected, with entire towns lost because of the closures of most of the steel mills. This was during the Reagan administration when he was US president. I used to live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 7 years ago to care for my stepdad. (yeah I lived in many locations in NYC and several states, always on the move). I am going to tell you that I personally heard the word from the locals in the town of Homestead, PA where the steel mills were stated this was also due to legal battles between the steel mill owners and it's unionized employees.

 

 

 

Posted at the same time to the minute. Exactly.

 

 

Pittsburgh rebirth itself into a high tech city with lots of banking , education and tech jobs. They fully recovered if not improved the city now a days. Yes it was a hard road but Pittsburgh is better off now then it was 20-30 years ago.

 

And what's worse is a lot of places in the U.S. (particularly in the South and Midwest depend on manufacturing and have seen towns literally crippled due to the loss of manufacturing as those places had nothing else to fall back on.  New York and California aren't areas with lots of manufacturing so here manufacturing losses have been replaced with things like finance, tourism and tech, but not all states and cities can do that. Just doesn't work that way and you can't just say well those jobs will be replaced with something else, because now and days they aren't.  The good old days when we were exporting jobs and still had lots of money to spend are over.  We're crippled with debt and a lot of it is due to the lack of manufacturing.  The Chinese economy continues to grow because they have manufacturing.

 

Go to upstate New York there is lots of manufacturing up there. Besides government jobs, farming and tourism its one of the biggest employers up there. 

 

Easy... A lot of it is due to people giving up because they can't find a job, not because the economy is doing so much better.  It's not exactly rocket science.  You need to create a certain amount of jobs while maintaining a certain amount of jobs and if you have more and more jobs going overseas that aren't being replaced, well then I think you can figure out what happens.  If you think the economy is doing so great, you can ask the recent college graduates why they can't find jobs.  I mean do you seriously think that you can just export millions of good paying jobs overseas and continue to replace those jobs with something else?

 

Somehow in this country we came to the conclusion that we can just export manufacturing jobs and they would be replaced by other high paying jobs.  Then those high paying jobs started going overseas too and now we're left with very little in between, with mostly low paying service jobs. It's really pathetic and the people that yell and scream about how it's no big deal are not out there trying to find a job.  

 

That is false after reading the employment data the number are falling just how home sales and car sales are going up. 

 

And what's worse is a lot of places in the U.S. (particularly in the South and Midwest depend on manufacturing and have seen towns literally crippled due to the loss of manufacturing as those places had nothing else to fall back on.  New York and California aren't areas with lots of manufacturing so here manufacturing losses have been replaced with things like finance, tourism and tech, but not all states and cities can do that. Just doesn't work that way and you can't just say well those jobs will be replaced with something else, because now and days they aren't.  The good old days when we were exporting jobs and still had lots of money to spend are over.  We're crippled with debt and a lot of it is due to the lack of manufacturing.  The Chinese economy continues to grow because they have manufacturing.

 

The Chinese numbers are slowing down due to a number of reasons but China is losing manufacturing work to lower cost counties in other parts of Asia due to China's growing costs increase. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Pittsburgh rebirth itself into a high tech city with lots of banking , education and tech jobs. They fully recovered if not improved the city now a days. Yes it was a hard road but Pittsburgh is better off now then it was 20-30 years ago.

 

 

 

Go to upstate New York there is lots of manufacturing up there. Besides government jobs, farming and tourism its one of the biggest employers up there. 

Yes, but New York is not the Midwest or the South.  If it weren't for the unions, I can assure you there would be a lot less manufacturing there because those jobs would've been sent overseas as well.

 

Relying on government jobs, farming and tourism is exactly what Greece has done and look what shape they're in.  Any healthy economy needs manufacturing.

[theaveragejoe]

Yes, but New York is not the Midwest or the South.  If it weren't for the unions, I can assure you there would be a lot less manufacturing there because those jobs would've been sent overseas as well.

 

Relying on government jobs, farming and tourism is exactly what Greece has done and look what shape they're in.  Any healthy economy needs manufacturing.

 

 

Upstate is both union and non union work after the NY state has been agressive in the past 5 year of gaining and retaining plants upstate with tax breaks and grants.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That is false after reading the employment data the number are falling just how home sales and car sales are going up. 

 

 

 

The Chinese numbers are slowing down due to a number of reasons but China is losing manufacturing work to lower cost counties in other parts of Asia due to China's growing costs increase. 

So you're telling me that those people that stopped looking for jobs suddenly were just given jobs?? Is that what you're implying?  When those people stop looking for jobs, they aren't counted as part of the unemployment group....  You also have people people working part-time that used to work full time that are no longer considered to be "unemployed".  That's why the youth looking for part-time work can't find anything.

 

Your second point is true, but the Chinese are capitalizing elsewhere by investing in infrastructure in other things that will allow them to remain an economic powerhouse.  They unlike the U.S. are not stupid enough to not have protections in place to protect its citizens and Chinese interests. The U.S. has sold out its citizens with the promise of retraining for "better jobs" when those jobs are not being being created fast enough and those that are are often low paying ones and nothing near to what they were earning before.

[theaveragejoe]

Relying on government jobs, farming and tourism is exactly what Greece has done and look what shape they're in.  Any healthy economy needs manufacturing.

 

 Same with Canada just add small manufacturing, mining and service industry and we have faired off pretty well so your point goes out the door there.

 

 

 There is lots of trades out there then need skilled workers. Problem is no one wants to be trained on good trades skills that pay good money. No wonder why you can make over $100 K a year in Oil fields just doing general labour.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Upstate is both union and non union work after the NY state has been agressive in the past 5 year of gaining and retaining plants upstate with tax breaks and grants.

You're right about that also but those tax breaks aren't free.  We the taxpayers here in New York are paying for them. New York has some of the highest taxes in the country.

 

 Same with Canada just add small manufacturing, mining and service industry and we have faired off pretty well so your point goes out the door there.

 

 

 There is lots of trades out there then need skilled workers. Problem is no one wants to be trained on good trades skills that pay good money. No wonder why you can make over $100 K a year in Oil fields just doing general labour.

Well it's not just that.  Manufacturing has been frowned upon by parents and the new generation.  Everyone wants a nice high paying job where they sit behind an office desk.  Doing manufacturing work and other trades that require hard labor are seen as demeaning these days, so there's a shortage because of the mindset.

[realizm]

And what's worse is a lot of places in the U.S. (particularly in the South and Midwest depend on manufacturing and have seen towns literally crippled due to the loss of manufacturing as those places had nothing else to fall back on.  New York and California aren't areas with lots of manufacturing so here manufacturing losses have been replaced with things like finance, tourism and tech, but not all states and cities can do that. Just doesn't work that way and you can't just say well those jobs will be replaced with something else, because now and days they aren't.  The good old days when we were exporting jobs and still had lots of money to spend are over.  We're crippled with debt and a lot of it is due to the lack of manufacturing.  The Chinese economy continues to grow because they have manufacturing.

 

Right, now all we really have service oriented industries such as commecial truck driving, construction and as you've stated, information technology in terms of the tertiary sector, and the healthcare industry not to mention nursing and such. The only big way that the US is bringing in revenue in terms of the manufacturing industry is from defense spending and it's manufacture of weapons sold to foriegn countries as is the case with Russia. Ridiculous right? This is why the United States has to share most of the blame for the stagnated economy. This problem with forign countries 'stealing' our jobs could be prevented from the federal goverment level but apparantly many of these senators just could'nt give a shit.

 

Fun fact: For that matter even in weapons development, even with the B2 Steath Bombers, B52's, Apache helicoptors, and (shocker) F22 Raptors may be made with foriegn parts.

 

Pittsburgh rebirth itself into a high tech city with lots of banking , education and tech jobs. They fully recovered if not improved the city now a days. Yes it was a hard road but Pittsburgh is better off now then it was 20-30 years ago.

 

Are you sure about that? Because Harrisburg, PA recently suggested going for bankruptcy. Well it's been seven years since I've lived there, so I may have to take your word for it, until I research this further.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/28/harrisburg-bankruptcy-option-idUSL1E8MJ5VN20121128

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Right, now all we really have service oriented industries such as commecial truck driving, construction and as you've stated, information technology in terms of the tertiary sector, and the healthcare industry not to mention nursing and such. The only big way that the US is bringing in revenue in terms of the manufacturing industry is from defense spending and it's manufacture of weapons sold to foriegn countries as is the case with Russia. Ridiculous right? This is why the United States has to share most of the blame for the stagnated economy. This problem with forign countries 'stealing' our jobs could be prevented from the federal goverment level but apparantly many of these senators just could'nt give a shit.

 

Fun fact: For that matter even in weapons development, even with the B2 Steath Bombers, B52's, Apache helicoptors, and (shocker) F22 Raptors may be made with foriegn parts.

 

The minute anything is said about the U.S. taking steps to protect American jobs and lobbying to stop the Chinese from intentionally making the currency lower to make their goods cheaper in comparison to the American ones, there's immediate talk about the Chinese retaliating.  The hypocrisy is ridiculous.  The Chinese can get away with putting protectionist measures in place to keep Chinese jobs in China, but anytime the U.S. considers it they're "scolded".  Aside from that the politicians are also too worried about what the Chinese would do since we owe so much debt to them.  What's funny though is when the Chinese tried to take over American things like American oil companies, that's when the U.S. stepped in and acted literally as protectionists, but yet they can't do the same thing when it comes to American jobs.  

[theaveragejoe]

The minute anything is said about the U.S. taking steps to protect American jobs and lobbying to stop the Chinese from intentionally making the currency lower to make their goods cheaper in comparison to the American ones, there's immediate talk about the Chinese retaliating.  The hypocrisy is ridiculous.  The Chinese can get away with putting protectionist measures in place to keep Chinese jobs in China, but anytime the U.S. considers it they're "scolded".  Aside from that the politicians are also too worried about what the Chinese would do since we owe so much debt to them.  What's funny though is when the Chinese tried to take over American things like American oil companies, that's when the U.S. stepped in and acted literally as protectionists, but yet they can't do the same thing when it comes to American jobs.  

 

Chinese talk smoke to everybody like that. Reason why they source all their resources from everywhere so if they have a problem with one country it doesnt effect their trade.

 

Right, now all we really have service oriented industries such as commecial truck driving, construction and as you've stated, information technology in terms of the tertiary sector, and the healthcare industry not to mention nursing and such. The only big way that the US is bringing in revenue in terms of the manufacturing industry is from defense spending and it's manufacture of weapons sold to foriegn countries as is the case with Russia. Ridiculous right? This is why the United States has to share most of the blame for the stagnated economy. This problem with forign countries 'stealing' our jobs could be prevented from the federal goverment level but apparantly many of these senators just could'nt give a shit.

 

Fun fact: For that matter even in weapons development, even with the B2 Steath Bombers, B52's, Apache helicoptors, and (shocker) F22 Raptors may be made with foriegn parts.

 

 

 

Are you sure about that? Because Harrisburg, PA recently suggested going for bankruptcy. Well it's been seven years since I've lived there, so I may have to take your word for it, until I research this further.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/28/harrisburg-bankruptcy-option-idUSL1E8MJ5VN20121128

 

 

Harrisburg's bankruptcy had to do with a bad water company deal.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Harrisburg's bankruptcy had to do with a bad water company deal.

That seems like a bit hard to believe... 

[realizm]

The minute anything is said about the U.S. taking steps to protect American jobs and lobbying to stop the Chinese from intentionally making the currency lower to make their goods cheaper in comparison to the American ones, there's immediate talk about the Chinese retaliating.  The hypocrisy is ridiculous.  The Chinese can get away with putting protectionist measures in place to keep Chinese jobs in China, but anytime the U.S. considers it they're "scolded".  Aside from that the politicians are also too worried about what the Chinese would do since we owe so much debt to them.  What's funny though is when the Chinese tried to take over American things like American oil companies, that's when the U.S. stepped in and acted literally as protectionists, but yet they can't do the same thing when it comes to American jobs.  

 

One thing is for sure: The economic and political tension caused by the overall the global economic crisis is getting hot. China’s export markets is actually collapsing much like the United States in the past as savage austerity, wage cuts, and mass joblessness is harming the working class' purchasing power in the United States and to add, Europe, bring down global demand for low cost consumer goods produced with exploited labour.

 

Sounds familiar to the problems we are having on our own soil?

 

Yes!

 

The PRC's  export-led growth strategy is failing in reality as a result of this global economic war it is yielding with the United States apparent by its massive expansion of debt with Beijing passed a $650 billion stimulus package in 2008 to counteract the downward spiral. The rapid increse of bank lending drove up spending to trillions of dollars, putting local provinces at over $2 trillion in debt, cutting into profit rates in manufacturing, and worsening a housing crisis that which will severly affect China’s banking system. So China is f**king up it's own economy too in a nutshell. It is what it is in a world of globalism. The sad thing is that as China and the US continue to fight and compete in what is realy post Cold War tensions it is harming other global markets in other countries. I strongly suspect this was the reason behind Japan's economic woes today in the 21st century. Heh it's being felt in Europe and also Africa.

 

When will these global leaders, in China and the US alike see that there are no winners here in the tensions these two economic superpowers are initiating, brining the global monetary system on the verge of collapse?

[theaveragejoe]

That seems like a bit hard to believe... 

My correction it was a failed trash incinerator deal

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/harrisburg-pennsylvania-files-for-bankruptcy.html?_r=0

[Turbo19]

My correction it was a failed trash incinerator deal

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/harrisburg-pennsylvania-files-for-bankruptcy.html?_r=0

That's just as ludicrous.

[realizm]

That's just as ludicrous.

 

No actually he's right. That failed incinerator deal was supposedly what broke the camel's back in Harrisburg.

[theaveragejoe]

No actually he's right. That failed incinerator deal was supposedly what broke the camel's back in Harrisburg.

The water system deal is the same thing that helped make the Motor City broke 

[Turbo19]

No actually he's right. That failed incinerator deal was supposedly what broke the camel's back in Harrisburg.

 

The water system deal is the same thing that helped make the Motor City broke 

 

It shit like this that makes me and others question how did the U.S. end up like this.

[peacemak3r]

A lot of back and forth going on here, but few things I wanted to make clear.

 

I'm all up for domestic steel being used and such, but the slandering on the Chinese making sh*t products need to stop.  I mean if China's steel was that bad, Hong Kong wouldn't pass the 2nd story level if that were the case.

[Turbo19]

A lot of back and forth going on here, but few things I wanted to make clear.

 

I'm all up for domestic steel being used and such, but the slandering on the Chinese making sh*t products need to stop.  I mean if China's steel was that bad, Hong Kong wouldn't pass the 2nd story level if that were the case.

Thank you.

[realizm]

A lot of back and forth going on here, but few things I wanted to make clear.

 

I'm all up for domestic steel being used and such, but the slandering on the Chinese making sh*t products need to stop.  I mean if China's steel was that bad, Hong Kong wouldn't pass the 2nd story level if that were the case.

 

Well that's the problem. The American media keeps the the public jaded with twisted propaganda in regards to the issue where it comes to the Chinese. (Read: Yellow Peril which is essentially racism directed at specifically the Chinese and Koreans based on the political tensions of the Cold War Era up to this day in a global economy).

 

The real fact of the matter that China and the US are going through economic tensions. And the economies of both countries are being destroyed in the process by each other's leaders of both nations. See post # 41.

 

The White House Press commitee and our senstors in congress as well as our local lawmakers right here in Albany do not want us to believe that. I've already explained a long time ago that the Chinese are using the latest metallurgic technology available in the entire world in their steel production.

 

 

They just want to harbor hate against the Chinese oversees for problems the American goverment brought on themselves, screwing the public in the process. It sucks all around.

[realizm]

It shit like this that makes me and others question how did the U.S. end up like this.

 

The vicious nature of politics.

 

I think I will make my point clear then as well, plain and simple.

 

On the end of the United States in their economic battle, they are spreading false propaganda against the opposing PRC goverment when it is the fault of US lawmakers many of them and the industry's giants.

 

On the end of the People's Republic of China in this same economic battle, they are spreading false propaganda against the opposing United States governent when it is the fault of the grassroot organizational leaders many of them and the industry's giants.

 

Either way both nations are tearing the global economy apart resulting in the economic suffering of it's own citizens (yes both nations it does'nt matter!), and others all over the world. That is the nature of political tensions that results in war. A trend that has been happening ever since World War 1, until today as we put a close of another f**ked up war, the War in Afganistan.