theaveragejoe Posted June 21, 2013 Share #51 Posted June 21, 2013 The vicious nature of politics. I think I will make my point clear then as well, plain and simple. On the end of the United States in their economic battle, they are spreading false propaganda against the opposing PRC goverment when it is the fault of US lawmakers many of them and the industry's giants. On the end of the People's Republic of China in this same economic battle, they are spreading false propaganda against the opposing United States governent when it is the fault of the grassroot organizational leaders many of them and the industry's giants. Either way both nations are tearing the global economy apart resulting in the economic suffering of it's own citizens (yes both nations it does'nt matter!), and others all over the world. That is the nature of political tensions that results in war. A trend that has been happening ever since World War 1, until today as we put a close of another f**ked up war, the War in Afganistan. You mean Iraq, Afganistan was clearly vaild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted June 21, 2013 Share #52 Posted June 21, 2013 I know exactly what I meant and why when I posted. Well that depends on who really initiated the attacks on 9/11. Remember Al Qaeda and the Taliban was armed by the CIA with Stinger missles to battle the Soviets during their own form of Vietnam, leading to the collapse of of a communist nation. Now we are bordering on still unanswered questions so I'll leave it at that for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted June 21, 2013 Share #53 Posted June 21, 2013 That's the whole argument being made... That it won't meet the quality and performance standards here. Did you read the article?? Yes I did read the article... Again, I do not see the point of Chinese steel being used for the bridge being "inferior"; If the steel is being used here in the US then it should meet the quality standards set here just like any other steel that is being used for the bridge. In all honestly I really don't see any legitimate reason for concern over this matter.. yes I understand the regulation in China is much less strict than the regulation here, but this is not China and I think that we can rest assured that any products being used for the bridge will be held up to our high standards. Furthermore, according to the article, no American company was willing to produce the steel that the MTA needs... what are they supposed to do, make it themselves?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #54 Posted June 21, 2013 Yes I did read the article... Again, I do not see the point of Chinese steel being used for the bridge being "inferior"; If the steel is being used here in the US then it should meet the quality standards set here just like any other steel that is being used for the bridge. In all honestly I really don't see any legitimate reason for concern over this matter.. yes I understand the regulation in China is much less strict than the regulation here, but this is not China and I think that we can rest assured that any products being used for the bridge will be held up to our high standards. Furthermore, according to the article, no American company was willing to produce the steel that the MTA needs... what are they supposed to do, make it themselves?? How can we ensure that it meets our standards when the Chinese have NO regulations on this stuff?? I mean seriously that's a foolish comment. Apparently you forgot about the multiple recalls of Chinese products that came here like toothpaste, dog food and the like. They used whatever they wanted in those products, sent it here and risked thousands of lives with tainted products. That's what happens when people run for cheap products. They get exactly what they pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted June 21, 2013 Share #55 Posted June 21, 2013 How can we ensure that it meets our standards when the Chinese have NO regulations on this stuff?? How are we to ensure that it meets our standards when the MTA among other major firms and companies as well as goverment agencies who keep on outsourcing the work? In the private sector and now in the public sector? Who is really at fault on our end as a nation? Indeed China is not a paradise goverment from heaven above either but we need to worry about the grevious problems with corruption we are dealing with as well. It did'nt have to happen this way. See who are the instigators in this situation. That's what happens when people run for cheap products? Is'nt that us foolish Americans (respectively)? Who are starting to fail at keeping up with the global market? If we were to actually be able to sustain our needs as a nation we would not be having this debate out of concern for the health of our own economy. And China would continue to prosper, cool. But it is not a perfect world. Name me one goverment that is not corrupted: Place your answer here: _______________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #56 Posted June 21, 2013 How are we to ensure that it meets our standards when the MTA among other major firms and companies as well as goverment agencies who keep on outsourcing the work? In the private sector and now in the public sector? Who is really at fault on our end as a nation? Indeed China is not a paradise goverment from heaven above either but we need to worry about the grevious problems with corruption we are dealing with as well. It did'nt have to happen this way. See who are the instigators in this situation. That's what happens when people run for cheap products? Is'nt that us foolish Americans (respectively)? Who are starting to fail at keeping up with the global market? If we were to actually be able to sustain our needs as a nation we would not be having this debate out of concern for the health of our own economy. And China would continue to prosper, cool. But it is not a perfect world. Name me one goverment that is not corrupted: Place your answer here: _______________________________________________________________________ Yes, I'm referring to the American consumer, who is obsessed with cheap goods. The scare of tainted Chinese products only lasted for a short time and after that people went right back to buying their cheap products because they love getting a deal, no matter what the cost even if it means them possibly risking their lives (literally speaking). It's the American consumer that drives this economy and it's the American consumer that has CONSTANTLY complained about wanting goods cheaper without any regard to the consequences. Then when tainted products started coming in from China, people cried, I can't believe this! We need more regulations, etc. etc. etc. when it was them that constantly complained about the expensive American products that were properly regulated. In short it's the American consumers' greed that has led us to this situation. For the few of us like myself that does buy American products and boycotts cheap imports, it's a difficult task because you have to really hunt and usually shop online to buy American products. What's not understood here is that the American consumer has created a situation in which the American company is seen as the enemy... Too expensive and has been ostracized to the point that when we do need American products they're practically out of reach, either due to cost or the scarcity of American manufacturers. It's a very dangerous situation to become almost totally dependent upon another country for the majority of your goods, because now we're literally like slaves to the Chinese. Even when we want to strengthen our economy, we can't do so easily as has been shown here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted June 21, 2013 Share #57 Posted June 21, 2013 You seem to be anti China as China is not the only country making cheap goods and you never seem to point them out. I know exactly what I meant and why when I posted. Well that depends on who really initiated the attacks on 9/11. Remember Al Qaeda and the Taliban was armed by the CIA with Stinger missles to battle the Soviets during their own form of Vietnam, leading to the collapse of of a communist nation. Now we are bordering on still unanswered questions so I'll leave it at that for another thread. That goes back to different policy then as it was the cold war and Al Qaeda and Taliban were different back then. But with 9/11 after the Al Qaeda attacks, Bush clearly stated to the Taliban to hand over Bin laden or there would be a war. They flat out said no so here we are now in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted June 21, 2013 Share #58 Posted June 21, 2013 You seem to be anti China as China is not the only country making cheap goods and you never seem to point them out. That goes back to different policy then as it was the cold war and Al Qaeda and Taliban were different back then. But with 9/11 after the Al Qaeda attacks, Bush clearly stated to the Taliban to hand over Bin laden or there would be a war. They flat out said no so here we are now in 2013. Wrong. I am not anti-Chinese. How can I be anti-Chinese when I am part Chinese and damn proud of it? I am just breaking down the corruption behind American and the Chinese goverments alike. Both goverments are corrupted. Please reread my posts. What an insulting accusation! That's like telling a black man that he is overly critical about the abuses his forefathers experienced during apartheid and the days of slavery. Many Chinese oversees have a right to be critical of their views of their own country just as many of us Americans are critical of our own country. Because it is the truth. Many goverments around the world are noted for abusing their own citizens. I would imagine the United States is not exempt. Neither is China. Neither is many other countries. All goverments have their issues with corruption, human rights abuses, and poisonous spread of falsefied and twisted propaganda. As for the Middle-Eastern and west Asian militias, the CIA armed them in the Soviet Afganistan War and now they have turned on them because the United States is trying create sattelite states and set up a Western Bloc so, they retaliated in a satanic manner against innocent Americans resulting in a bloody war. Terrible as it is the Pentagon failed to protect US citizens from the horrific 9/11 attacks I have seen with my own two eyes! Simple as that. The Afgan miltias are world renowned for their terrible abuses against their own too, as well as our own goverment on us, as well as China against their own people. I think I have a right to be upset at all corruot governments and this goes beyond "cheap products". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #59 Posted June 21, 2013 You seem to be anti China as China is not the only country making cheap goods and you never seem to point them out. I have no problem with China. I have several Asian friends and a good Chinese friend that I've known since high school. I have a problem with the Chinese government and them manipulating their currency to give them an edge over everyone else. If they played by the rules then it would be a completely different story, but they don't and have not been doing so for years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted June 23, 2013 Share #60 Posted June 23, 2013 Tough debate? With some of the members here, you'll see this debate turn into a USA vs China product bullsh*t as usual when half the products they use are probably made or have parts made from China. Anyway, I agree the MTA should at least be using products from the USA but people slandering Chinese products especially as they said they are getting it from the 2nd largest company in China is down right shameful. They attack their decision on not obtaining USA products in them and say Chinese is inferior? The lawmakers better drop their phones as I'm sure most of them and parts of the phones may be from "inferior" China. Not to mention the fact that China gets a lot of products from us. It's a two-way street, and we export a ton to China: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/as-china-grows-so-does-its-appetite-for-american-made-products/?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share #61 Posted June 23, 2013 Not to mention the fact that China gets a lot of products from us. It's a two-way street, and we export a ton to China: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/as-china-grows-so-does-its-appetite-for-american-made-products/?_r=0 Oh please. The trade imbalance between the US and China is ridiculous. The export WAYYYY more to US than we do to them. I think you need to rethink that comment because it is off base. This is from the article you're quoting: "But analysts say they don’t expect the United States trade gap with China to shrink any time soon. Last year, China’s trade surplus with the United States was between $180 billion or $250 billion, according to various calculations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted June 23, 2013 Share #62 Posted June 23, 2013 Oh please. The trade imbalance between the US and China is ridiculous. The export WAYYYY more to US than we do to them. I think you need to rethink that comment because it is off base. This is from the article you're quoting: "But analysts say they don’t expect the United States trade gap with China to shrink any time soon. Last year, China’s trade surplus with the United States was between $180 billion or $250 billion, according to various calculations." It's not off base. We import much more than we export, but it doesn't detract from the fact that we still import a lot of goods to China. Either way, I'm not losing sleep at night over the issue of trade balance. We've had a trade imbalance with China as long as I've been alive, and then some: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#1985 Anyway, if I do lose sleep over the trade imbalance, I can just as easily get some milk and cookies and watch replays of ABC's "Made in America" series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share #63 Posted June 23, 2013 It's not off base. We import much more than we export, but it doesn't detract from the fact that we still import a lot of goods to China. Either way, I'm not losing sleep at night over the issue of trade balance. We've had a trade imbalance with China as long as I've been alive, and then some: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#1985 Anyway, if I do lose sleep over the trade imbalance, I can just as easily get some milk and cookies and watch replays of ABC's "Made in America" series. Yeah it is off base. You say it's a "two-way" street. China benefits far more from us than we do. They own our debt which allows them a lot of leverage over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted June 23, 2013 Share #64 Posted June 23, 2013 Actually relatively little of the debt in the United States is owned by China. Currently it's roughly only 8%. A majority of the debt is being held not by China, but by people and certain institutions in the United States also known as the Federal Reserve. Source: http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/politicalcalculations/2013/01/21/who-really-owns-the-us-national-debt-n1493555/page/full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted June 23, 2013 Share #65 Posted June 23, 2013 Actually relatively little of the debt in the United States is owned by China. Currently it's roughly only 8%. A majority of the debt is being held not by China, but by people and certain institutions in the United States also known as the Federal Reserve. Source: http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/politicalcalculations/2013/01/21/who-really-owns-the-us-national-debt-n1493555/page/full Eight percent of the country's debt is still a massive amount, especially considering that's just for one foreign nation. Going by these statistics (which I find slightly skewed personally) the debt in part to other nations is nearly 45%. To say that isn't the majority would just be false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOPRO Posted July 2, 2013 Share #66 Posted July 2, 2013 I avoided jumping into this debate because topics like these are always too hotly debated and always find a way to fall off course. However I had to jump in now that the daily news decided to run their story with the outrage baiting headline. In all honesty there are two sides to every story. Start at the 1:39:00 mark and get the other side then form whatever opinion you would like to form on the topic. Don't just run off with one side as news articles of the present are written by those with an opinion of their own with an attempt to conform your thought to theirs. Also my apologies I do not know how to post a youtube video directly as I'm still learning the site but the link will lead you directly to the start of what is being discussed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOPRO Posted July 2, 2013 Share #67 Posted July 2, 2013 http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2013/06/the_facts_about_verrazano-narr.html There's another for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted July 2, 2013 Share #68 Posted July 2, 2013 I avoided jumping into this debate because topics like these are always too hotly debated and always find a way to fall off course. However I had to jump in now that the daily news decided to run their story with the outrage baiting headline. In all honesty there are two sides to every story. Start at the 1:39:00 mark and get the other side then form whatever opinion you would like to form on the topic. Don't just run off with one side as news articles of the present are written by those with an opinion of their own with an attempt to conform your thought to theirs. Also my apologies I do not know how to post a youtube video directly as I'm still learning the site but the link will lead you directly to the start of what is being discussed right now. Yep. Many news stories are written by journalists with a slant on political and propaganda related agendas in direction from the White House Press Commitee, who puts on the pressure to report the news as such. This is a form of censorship in a subtle yet effective way to sway the public with biased false propaganda concerning foriegn countries that the US is seeking to control via twisted foriegn diplomatic tatics. Right on the money boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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