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Harry

Southern Brooklynites want a ferry during R train outage, but city, state and feds say no

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Bay Ridge residents lost a trifecta this week as city, state and federal officials squashed local dreams of restoring ferry service between the neighborhood and lower Manhattan during the coming yearlong (R) train outage. Councilman Vincent Gentile asked the feds to pay for commuter boats after the MTA announced it would eliminate (R) train service between Brooklyn Heights and Whitehall street for 14 months starting in August to make post-Sandy repairs. But city and federal authorities nixed Gentile’s vision on the grounds that the state-run Metropolitan Transportation Authority must back the ferry plan.

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I really don't want to say this as a general statement, as each situation in regard to transit at this time varies, but seemingly it would appear as everyone is looking for handouts from the (MTA) to fund non (MTA) services. I'm all for reinstating the ferry service that was cut, but not at the expense of the (MTA).

 

Furthermore I'm appalled that they even needed the discretion of the (MTA). This just shows that local officials don't see this as a priority, which is a complete different discussion.

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I'm with Gentile on this one.  They've gotta keep fighting to get what they need.

 

 

 

Double that. Bay Ridge residents, many of them actually prefer to take the (R) during the morning rush to/from Manhattan as it is not as jampacked as the (D) and particularly the (N) during the morning rush as the time approaches 8:00AM, which is incredibly crushloaded, it's even comparable to the (6) during the AM rush, and that's no exaggeration.

 

I'm not sure now but I do know that when I used to live in that area there were even sceduled (N) Broadway express trains in the MTA's attempts to alleviate the problem even. One of them were sceduled to depart 36th street by 7:15 AM 7:45AM the others I can't remember, that was a long time ago during the R160 debut on the BMT.

Edited by realizm

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See this is one of the reasons why the south ferry complex should have been built as planned. Originally it was supposed to create a passage to the Bowling Green (4), (5) station. If they added movable sidewalks like they have a Court Square problems like these would not be happening at all. But I guess we can't have everything I suppose. 

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I really don't want to say this as a general statement, as each situation in regard to transit at this time varies, but seemingly it would appear as everyone is looking for handouts from the (MTA) to fund non (MTA) services. I'm all for reinstating the ferry service that was cut, but not at the expense of the (MTA).

 

Furthermore I'm appalled that they even needed the discretion of the (MTA). This just shows that local officials don't see this as a priority, which is a complete different discussion.

Where does it say that at? I think you're mixing up the (G) train with the (R) train.  The article clearly states that this would've been paid for with money from the federal government.

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Where does it say that at? I think you're mixing up the (G) train with the (R) train.  The article clearly states that this would've been paid for with money from the federal government.

This is the quote I read.

 

But city and federal authorities nixed Gentile’s vision on the grounds that the state-run Metropolitan Transportation Authority must back the ferry plan.

 

 

As the article is very vague as to what that entails I assumed there would be funds provided. If that is not the case then I retract my earlier statement.

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I may be wrong but the way I read it is that the (MTA) must approve of the plan to reinstate ferry service and only then the federal money will come in place. (MTA) may have reasons not to approve like, for example, shortage on ship crew (again: only an example).

But if they have everything in place to reinstate the service and the federal gov does pay for it then I'd say why not.

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This is the quote I read.

 

 

 

As the article is very vague as to what that entails I assumed there would be funds provided. If that is not the case then I retract my earlier statement.

The article is clear. It would be paid for with federal funds, not from the (MTA).  As Vistauss stated the (MTA) would simply have to back the plan and approve it.  It would be similar to the Rockaways having ferry service when the subways were knocked out down there due to Hurricane Sandy.  The ferries could provide alternatives and alleviate overcrowding on trains, so I don't see what the problem is.

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The article is clear. It would be paid for with federal funds, not from the (MTA).  As Vistauss stated the (MTA) would simply have to back the plan and approve it.  It would be similar to the Rockaways having ferry service when the subways were knocked out down there due to Hurricane Sandy.  The ferries could provide alternatives and alleviate overcrowding on trains, so I don't see what the problem is.

In that case I retract my primary statement, as evidenced below.

 

Although I do have to ask as to why the discretion from the (MTA) is required. Seems like a foreign concept to me.

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If they want ferry service then ask a company like NY Waterway not the (MTA).

 

They want free ferry service, go figure.

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The name of the article is very vague, I live in South Brooklyn and I couldn't care less for any kind of ferry.

Besides walking to the ferry will take some time, as well as boarding, and last, those ferries won't be running anywhere close to the subway frequencies. Which makes them, in my opinion an inferior choice to the subway link, even if it includes a transfer.

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Was there some kind of ferry at one time? I know there was a 69th Street ferry to SI, but was there one to Manhattan as well?

 

In any case, a ferry isn't going to do much. It's nowhere near the (R) train and it'll only drop you off at certain points in Manhattan. 

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Was there some kind of ferry at one time? I know there was a 69th Street ferry to SI, but was there one to Manhattan as well?

 

In any case, a ferry isn't going to do much. It's nowhere near the (R) train and it'll only drop you off at certain points in Manhattan. 

How would you know what it's going to do?  The point of it is to provide people with other alternatives. There was ferry service in Bay Ridge previously and they'd like it back.  The Rockaways had and still has ferry service after Hurricane Sandy that was given to them when the (A) was knocked out, so it doesn't need to be near the train for it to be considered a viable option.  The community knows best what works in terms of their needs and what will work for their commutes.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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How would you know what it's going to do?  The point of it is to provide people with other alternatives. There was ferry service in Bay Ridge previously and they'd like it back.  The Rockaways had and still has ferry service after Hurricane Sandy that was given to them when the (A) was knocked out, so it doesn't need to be near the train for it to be considered a viable option.  The community knows best what works in terms of their needs and what will work for their commutes.

 

For starters, show me the proof that there was actual ferry service to Manhattan from Bay Ridge (because otherwise, the "ferry service in Bay Ridge previously" is irrelevant, because the only ferry from Bay Ridge is the one that went to St. George. Unless taking a ferry to St. George and transferring to the SI Ferry is going to somehow be faster than taking the express bus or (R) train)

 

Second of all, that ferry would be right next to the X27/37. That ferry from Great Kills did pretty poorly after Hurricane Sandy, and it was in the same situation as well, near all the express buses on Hylan. 

 

As for that Rockaways Ferry, that was near the train. It was by Beach 108th Street, a few blocks from the Beach 105th Street station. 

 

Yeah, the community always knows best, except when it's Co-Op City, or my community. Then those people don't know what the hell they're talking about. If you're going to apply that logic, you have to apply it equally. 

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You see I wouldn't mind if they expanded the East River Ferry down to the 69th Street Pier. However they won't get it for free. Neither did Rockaway residents after Sandy.

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You see I wouldn't mind if they expanded the East River Ferry down to the 69th Street Pier. However they won't get it for free. Neither did Rockaway residents after Sandy.

 

 

Let them have the ferry , but they will pay NY Waterways prices!

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For starters, show me the proof that there was actual ferry service to Manhattan from Bay Ridge (because otherwise, the "ferry service in Bay Ridge previously" is irrelevant, because the only ferry from Bay Ridge is the one that went to St. George. Unless taking a ferry to St. George and transferring to the SI Ferry is going to somehow be faster than taking the express bus or (R) train)

 

Second of all, that ferry would be right next to the X27/37. That ferry from Great Kills did pretty poorly after Hurricane Sandy, and it was in the same situation as well, near all the express buses on Hylan. 

 

As for that Rockaways Ferry, that was near the train. It was by Beach 108th Street, a few blocks from the Beach 105th Street station. 

 

Yeah, the community always knows best, except when it's Co-Op City, or my community. Then those people don't know what the hell they're talking about. If you're going to apply that logic, you have to apply it equally. 

Since you need everything spelled out for you here's the "proof" <_<:

 

"In the 1980s, commuter ferry service ran from 69th Street Pier in Bay Ridge to Manhattan.  But the pier was allowed to fall into disrepair, and eventually closed as unsafe, ending ferry service.  Bay Ridge has had no direct ferry service since the early 1990s, when the old 69th Street Pier was closed."

 

Source: http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2012/02/bringing-commuter-ferry-service-back-to.html

 

As for your community, I didn't know you represented the entire neighborhood.

 

As for Co-Op City, the only thing I questioned was them wanting a bus back that they currently have, just split up into two routes.  It's a legitimate question since they feel that they're "entitled" to those services as one lady stated. 

 

As for the ferry service, one neighborhood has nothing to do with another, so your point is irrelevant.  The fast ferry service on Staten Island did poorly because it was not near transportation and the parking area was not preferred by those who did use it. In addition to that the areas it stopped in the city weren't convenient.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Since you need everything spelled out for you here's the "proof" <_<:

 

Source: http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2012/02/bringing-commuter-ferry-service-back-to.html

 

As for your community, I didn't know you represented the entire neighborhood.

 

As for Co-Op City, the only thing I questioned was them wanting a bus back that they currently have, just split up into two routes.  It's a legitimate question since they feel that they're "entitled" to those services as one lady stated. 

 

As for the ferry service, one neighborhood has nothing to do with another, so your point is irrelevant.  The fast ferry service on Staten Island did poorly because it was not near transportation and the parking area was not preferred by those who did use it. In addition to that the areas it stopped in the city weren't convenient.  

 

I actually didn't know that, and so that's why I asked for proof of the ferry to Manhattan.

 

As for my community, for starters, there's about 500 people who signed my petition, and some of them want the service even more than I do. (And I have the support of the community board and some politicians). Last I checked, community boards are supposed to represent the communities they serve, right? And this is only the beginning.....

 

Not to mention that you've been complaining about "Oh, the X17J & X30 were rerouted to serve those condos, when they have the X12/X42", even though those are about 3/4 of a mile away. So when it comes to this area, you're the ultimate decider of what works for us, but when it comes to an area like Bay Ridge, suddenly the community members are all-knowing.

 

Oh, but they must know what their transportation needs are, right? After all, they're members of the community. :rolleyes: Like I said, you have to apply that logic consistently. If communities know what's best for them, then every community knows what's best for them, regardless of how ridiculous it may sound. Me personally, I think sometimes they know, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's the idiots who make the most noise, and sometimes (though I'd probably say the majority of the time) it's people with legitimate concerns and solutions.

 

So explain to me how much faster and more convenient the ferry would be than the X27/37. The X27/37 stop at multiple points in Bay Ridge and multiple points in Manhattan, and you can get from northern Bay Ridge (where the ferry would start) to Lower Manhattan in less than 20 minutes, with better frequencies.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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I actually didn't know that, and so that's why I asked for proof of the ferry to Manhattan.

 

As for my community, for starters, there's about 500 people who signed my petition, and some of them want the service even more than I do. (And I have the support of the community board and some politicians). Last I checked, community boards are supposed to represent the communities they serve, right? And this is only the beginning.....

 

Not to mention that you've been complaining about "Oh, the X17J & X30 were rerouted to serve those condos, when they have the X12/X42", even though those are about 3/4 of a mile away. So when it comes to this area, you're the ultimate decider of what works for us, but when it comes to an area like Bay Ridge, suddenly the community members are all-knowing.

 

Oh, but they must know what their transportation needs are, right? After all, they're members of the community. :rolleyes: Like I said, you have to apply that logic consistently. If communities know what's best for them, then every community knows what's best for them, regardless of how ridiculous it may sound. Me personally, I think sometimes they know, and sometimes they don't.

 

So explain to me how much faster and more convenient the ferry would be than the X27/37.

Good then.  It should be slam dunk. I just wish you would stop bringing it up constantly.

 

When it comes to my commute, last I checked I have a right to complain and other people said the same thing, which was that they were getting preferential treatment.  Those of us with longer commutes on the X30 in West Brighton, Randall Manor and the Silver Lake area did not care for the re-route.  We had one option (the X30 since the X14 stopped running earlier than the X30) while they had THREE other options (the X17J, X12/X42 all run later than the X30) close by and had a far shorter commute than us (our commute was at least 20 - 30 minutes longer than theirs), so yeah we had a problem with it, especially when we already had limited options and then lost two options with the consolidation of the X13 and X14 and the loss of the X16.  

 

We're talking about one condominium in one neighborhood vs three neighborhoods.  

 

I don't need to explain to you how much faster and more convenient the ferry will be because I'm not the one requesting it, nor does it affect my commute so I could care less.  I stated that I support them going after what they feel is needed in their community.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Good then.  It should be slam dunk. I just wish you would stop bringing it up constantly.

 

When it comes to my commute, last I checked I have a right to complain and other people said the same thing, which was that they were getting preferential treatment.  Those of us with longer commutes on the X30 in West Brighton, Randall Manor and the Silver Lake area did not care for the re-route.  We had one option (the X30 since the X14 stopped running earlier than the X30) while they had THREE other options (the X17J, X12/X42 all run later than the X30) close by and had a far shorter commute than us, so yeah we had a problem with it, especially when we already had limited options and then lost two options with the consolidation of the X13 and X14 and the loss of the X16.  

 

We're talking about one condominium in one neighborhood vs three neighborhoods.  

 

Notice how quickly he changes it up. First, he's on this nonsense about "Oh, there's no need for it. You're just being selfish and trying to represent the views of the whole community". Now that I actually have gotten the community involved, suddenly he changes his tune.....

 

And you're still trying to dictate what works for another community. For starters, the X12/42 are a good 3/4 of a mile away and they make stops further down in other parts of SI, whereas the X30 goes right into Manhattan (not to mention the X30 serves more of West Midtown). The X17J stops there, but those buses can be crowded having come all the way from Huguenot (or at the very least, the ETC), and so the X30 provides additional capacity and an extra option (serving 42nd Street instead of 34th Street).

 

The X14 was an option, so you're going to have to count that. And in the mornings, it ran later than the X30, while in the afternoons, it ended 5 minutes earlier than the X30.

 

Not to mention you didn't particularly like the idea of the X17J stopping at South Avenue either.

 

And it's two condo complexes (Regal Walk & City West), not to mention that it serves the rest of the neighborhood as well. (So it's not one condo complex in one neighborhood. It's an entire neighborhood). And rerouting a bus to make a couple of extra stops is different from bringing back an entire route.

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Notice how quickly he changes it up. First, he's on this nonsense about "Oh, there's no need for it. You're just being selfish and trying to represent the views of the whole community". Now that I actually have gotten the community involved, suddenly he changes his tune.....

 

And you're still trying to dictate what works for another community. For starters, the X12/42 are a good 3/4 of a mile away and they make stops further down in other parts of SI, whereas the X30 goes right into Manhattan (not to mention the X30 serves more of West Midtown). The X17J stops there, but those buses can be crowded having come all the way from Huguenot (or at the very least, the ETC), and so the X30 provides additional capacity and an extra option (serving 42nd Street instead of 34th Street).

 

The X14 was an option, so you're going to have to count that. And in the mornings, it ran later than the X30, while in the afternoons, it ended 5 minutes earlier than the X30.

 

Not to mention you didn't particularly like the idea of the X17J stopping at South Avenue either.

 

And it's two condo complexes (Regal Walk & City West), not to mention that it serves the rest of the neighborhood as well. (So it's not one condo complex in one neighborhood. It's an entire neighborhood). And rerouting a bus to make a couple of extra stops is different from bringing back an entire route.

My tune hasn't changed at all.  I still don't think there's a need for it but at this point I really don't care.  I already stated my opinion before (MONTHS AGO) and it's not changing so let it be and move on. If you have the support for it the way you claim you do then it should be a done deal, but my point is stop telling me about it.  I live in Riverdale now and have for well over a year now, so I really could give two sh*ts about Staten Island, as long as my commute isn't affected.

 

I'd like to discuss the topic at hand which is Southern Brooklynites wanting a ferry during the (R) train outage, not checkmate's Staten Island proposal from ions ago. <_<

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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My tune hasn't changed at all.  I still don't think there's a need for it but at this point I really don't care.  I already stated my opinion before (MONTHS AGO) and it's not changing so let it be and move on. If you have the support for it the way you claim you do then it should be a done deal, but my point is stop telling me about it.  I live in Riverdale now and have for well over a year now, so I really could give two sh*ts about Staten Island, as long as my commute isn't affected.

 

I'd like to discuss the topic at hand which is Southern Brooklynites wanting a ferry during the (R) train outage, not checkmate's Staten Island proposal from ions ago. <_<

 

Sure you don't, but it's not because of any actual facts (because matter of fact, it supports principles you claim to agree with). It's because it's my idea and I would be one of those benefitting from it. You and I both know it, even if you don't want to admit it. I just want to call you out on your inconsistencies, and this happens to be a perfect example. (Yeah, yeah, yeah, and here come the comments about "Oh, he's obsessed with me and doesn't let things go")

 

And I was referring to the fact that you changed from saying that I don't represent the whole community to just brushing it off when you found out that the community does support it. 

 

And it's eons, not ions. (Yeah, yeah, yeah, and here come the comments about nitpicking). And it is relevant because of your comments about how the neighborhood knows what's best for them.

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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And it's eons, not ions. (Yeah, yeah, yeah, and here come the comments about nitpicking). And it is relevant because of your comments about how the neighborhood knows what's best for them.

 

Says the person who tells me about Chinese culture, insulting my intelligence when I am Chinese. I think many of us are utterly sick of your crap. Enough already!

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