Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
Via Garibaldi 8

Relief drivers on the express bus

Recommended Posts

I was chatting with my buddy on the BxM2.  He was telling me that he has to deadhead from Katonah after doing a trip on the BxM4 and has to try to get to 34th with a ton of traffic for the BxM2 run some days.  Unfortunately sometimes he doesn't make it on time and there is a relief driver there in case he's late who then immediately takes the trip and does it, picking up all of his passengers.  He still does the trip but with a light bus.  My question is when and why did this start? I have my suspicions as to why, but I've never heard of this before.  It's certainly not something that occurred on Staten Island express buses before. Apparently some Yonkers buses are held over at Quill for some runs.

 

It does explain why I've seen Eastchester buses deadheading near Quill Depot.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost all morning express buses stay at Quill after their done with their trips (and 100 St) so they do the afternoon trips back out.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost all morning express buses stay at Quill after their done with their trips (and 100 St) so they do the afternoon trips back out.

Yeah that I know... What I'm curious about is when did they start having relief drivers take over trips if the regular driver can't deadhead down fast enough and also what exactly is the advantage or "cost savings" of doing this? In essence, some trips now have B/O's on "stand-by" in case the regular B/O of the trip can't deadhead from their destination fast enough to pick up passengers on time.  All he has to do is pull in with his bus and do the trip and they don't even tell the B/O that is running down there that he has a backup B/O that is now doing his trip.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that I know... What I'm curious about is when did they start having relief drivers take over trips if the regular driver can't deadhead down fast enough and also what exactly is the advantage or "cost savings" of doing this? In essence, some trips now have B/O's on "stand-by" in case the regular B/O of the trip can't deadhead from their destination fast enough to pick up passengers on time.  All he has to do is pull in with his bus and do the trip and they don't even tell the B/O that is running down there that he has a backup B/O that is now doing his trip.

What I got from this is that the are sending another bus to cover that trip that was supposed to be covered by the original run. Is that correct?

 

If so, the only advantage I see would be that passengers would be benefiting from a trip departing on time. So in a way it's good for passengers, and it gives work to the relief operator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I got from this is that the are sending another bus to cover that trip that was supposed to be covered by the original run. Is that correct?

 

If so, the only advantage I see would be that passengers would be benefiting from a trip departing on time. So in a way it's good for passengers, and it gives work to the relief operator.

That's exactly what they're doing. I have never heard of this before.  I do know that some Riverdale express bus trips were quite late and I think that they got so many complaints that they decided to start this up to ensure that buses were leaving on time.  The B/O that does the deadheading still gets paid, so I'm confused as to how this is a cost savings measure? Surely it benefits the passengers, but I'm curious as to how often this is done and when. I think this may have happened on the S48 years ago but I'm not sure.  Sometimes I would notice one S48 and then a very empty one that wasn't on the schedule so they must do it from time to time, but from my understanding this is a new thing that's quite common.  

 

I wonder if it's also a way to not pay B/O's overtime?  The thing is though if you have a relief driver isn't the "cost savings" eaten up as opposed to paying overtime or does that depend on how much the driver is being paid?

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's exactly what they're doing. I have never heard of this before.  I do know that some Riverdale express bus trips were quite late and I think that they got so many complaints that they decided to start this up to ensure that buses were leaving on time.  The B/O that does the deadheading still gets paid, so I'm confused as to how this is cost savings measure? Surely it benefits the passengers, but I'm curious as to how often this is done and when. I think this may have happened on the S48 years ago but I'm not sure.  Sometimes I would notice one S48 and then a very empty one that wasn't on the schedule so they must do it from time to time, but from my understanding this is a new thing that's quite common.  

 

I wonder if it's also a way to not pay B/O's overtime?  The thing is though if you have a relief driver isn't the "cost savings" eaten up as opposed to paying overtime or does that depend on how much the driver is being paid?

I would think that there really aren't any internal benefits, other than getting the relief operators to work, as I'd assume they're getting paid anyway most of the time, waiting to get on the road. Other than that, the expense to get another bus on the road is still present.

 

And regarding avoidance of overtime, I was assuming that as well, but I doubt it, and even if that was true the expense of sending the actual bus out would just be counter productive.

 

The overtime pay itself varies, but if the original operators is that far behind, they can tell the relief operator (who again is likely paid regardless) to cover the trips and have the original guy come in to clock out. Big wage difference there.

 

In fact, I wonder if this practice would be going against any of ATU's regulations. I'd rather not push that issue, LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think that there really aren't any internal benefits, other than getting the relief operators to work, as I'd assume they're getting paid anyway most of the time, waiting to get on the road. Other than that, the expense to get another bus on the road is still present.

 

And regarding avoidance of overtime, I was assuming that as well, but I doubt it, and even if that was true the expense of sending the actual bus out would just be counter productive.

 

The overtime pay itself varies, but if the original operators is that far behind, they can tell the relief operator (who again is likely paid regardless) to cover the trips and have the original guy come in to clock out. Big wage difference there.

 

In fact, I wonder if this practice would be going against any of ATU's regulations. I'd rather not push that issue, LOL.

Actually I've become quite curious about this.  I do know that the (MTA) has tried to cut down on overtime from a bus being late perspective.  There is still overtime to be had, but I don't think they want to pay B/Os overtime as a result of say being stuck in traffic, so that if they fall behind on one trip they would rather stick a relief B/O in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost all morning express buses stay at Quill after their done with their trips (and 100 St) so they do the afternoon trips back out.

I noticed that are some express buses split with quill as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I've become quite curious about this.  I do know that the (MTA) has tried to cut down on overtime from a bus being late perspective.  There is still overtime to be had, but I don't think they want to pay B/Os overtime as a result of say being stuck in traffic, so that if they fall behind on one trip they would rather stick a relief B/O in.

Well I wish I could add more, but I don't have any other info. Clearly there must be internal benefits for this to continue, as the MTA is usually out to save, right down to the penny. If it were for the sole reason to satisfy passengers I'd be shocked. As it is, enjoy the benefits if you can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed that are some express buses split with quill as well?

There is no express trips that are based out of Quill. Each one comes from their respective depots and just park on the roof at Quill between the rush hour periods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no express trips that are based out of Quill. Each one comes from their respective depots and just park on the roof at Quill between the rush hour periods

I see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no express trips that are based out of Quill. Each one comes from their respective depots and just park on the roof at Quill between the rush hour periods

Well the QV expresses have their own little facility in Queens. I'm guessing it's because there wouldn't be enough space on the roof?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the QV expresses have their own little facility in Queens. I'm guessing it's because there wouldn't be enough space on the roof?

I wonder if they only got that space after the fall of the PBLs... the PBLs could not park in Quill so they probably had plenty of room for QV to park there back then. Makes me wonder where the PBLs parked though... was that QV lot in LIC originally a lot for the PBLs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are not enough relief drivers in Baisley Park depot for the QM21. No driver,no bus. The QM21 runs every half hour so that sucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the QV expresses have their own little facility in Queens. I'm guessing it's because there wouldn't be enough space on the roof?

Talkin about arch st yard ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are not enough relief drivers in Baisley Park depot for the QM21. No driver,no bus. The QM21 runs every half hour so that sucks.

Why wouldn't there be enough?  Yonkers isn't big either, so that doesn't make any sense.  What's confusing is how Yonkers has this set up but not on Staten Island?  If our bus broke down or our regular didn't show up we were basically S.O.L. We would have to use whatever express bus we could get just to get on Staten Island and make our way from there.

 

I know one thing that is driving me up a wall is all of these damn rookies out of Yonkers now.  Seems like they're training a newbie once or twice a week during the morning rush and it is beyond annoying.  I mean seriously, it took me almost an hour and a half this morning from Riverdale which is ridiculous.  With a good driver and or no traffic that trip can be done in 40 minutes.   <_< Guy was driving like 5mph on Lexington. Didn't help that his so-called "mentor" doesn't drive any faster either.  He keeps repeating over and over how everyone needs to stay in their seats until the bus comes to a complete stop, which is fine, but drive the damn bus.  Most of the relief drivers are slow as I don't know what, so I'd rather get a regular.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why wouldn't there be enough?  Yonkers isn't big either, so that doesn't make any sense.  What's confusing is how Yonkers has this set up but not on Staten Island?  If our bus broke down or our regular didn't show up we were basically S.O.L. We would have to use whatever express bus we could get just to get on Staten Island and make our way from there.

 

I know one thing that is driving me up a wall is all of these damn rookies out of Yonkers now.  Seems like they're training a newbie once or twice a week during the morning rush and it is beyond annoying.  I mean seriously, it took me almost an hour and a half this morning from Riverdale which is ridiculous.  With a good driver and or no traffic that trip can be done in 40 minutes.   <_< Guy was driving like 5mph on Lexington. Didn't help that his so-called "mentor" doesn't drive any faster either.  He keeps repeating over and over how everyone needs to stay in their seats until the bus comes to a complete stop, which is fine, but drive the damn bus.  Most of the relief drivers are slow as I don't know what, so I'd rather get a regular.  

 

 Most express depots have runs that the drivers DH to a central spot in the AM/PM rush to cover trips if needed. I know for fact that Yonkers,College Pt,Eastchester and S.I. have this kind of a set up.

 

Second....we've had this discussion about the rookies. They need to be out there during the rush to see how things work, so they can find their groove on what works and what doesn't. There is no other way to do that besides having them run rush hour trips in service with an experienced driver to help them out. I've had new people all last week at ShortLine and they ran my schedule with 10 minutes of what I normally do. The passengers don't like it but they deal with it. If you know of a better way to train these new drivers then please share that idea with the rest of the group. :rolleyes:

 

Edited by BZGuy
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Most express depots have runs that the drivers DH to a central spot in the AM/PM rush to cover trips if needed. I know for fact that Yonkers,College Pt,Eastchester and S.I. have this kind of a set up.

 

Second....we've had this discussion about the rookies. They need to be out there during the rush to see how things work, so they can find their groove on what works and what doesn't. There is no other way to do that besides having them run rush hour trips in service with an experienced driver to help them out. I've had new people all last week at ShortLine and they ran my schedule with 10 minutes of what I normally do. The passengers don't like it but they deal with it. If you know of a better way to train these new drivers then please share that idea with the rest of the group. :rolleyes:

 

Well, I solved that problem by taking a different bus today.  My concern is that the so-called "rookies" NEVER learn the ropes and turn into veterans driving like snails during the rush.  You know the morning passengers have less patience because we've got to get to work.  However since my boss is pretty lax with getting in I usually don't make too much of a stink but of late it's been like double the amount of time it usually takes, which is ridiculous for Riverdale.  The other day it was almost an hour and 30 minutes.  A normal trip on a Riverdale bus is an hour tops and that's with traffic.  

 

I've had a few of the rookies and it's totally screwed up my commute to the point that I have to just avoid taking them and switch up my schedule.  The other day the "veteran" I get was driving so slow that the next express bus caught up to us and PASSED us which runs 20 minutes behind us and he wasn't a Super Express but a via Inwood bus like us!!  <_<  I said to myself, that's it.  No point in leaving 20 minutes early, so I left and got the later bus this morning.

 

As for SI buses, I wonder if that's specific to just select lines? It must be the Hylan Blvd corridor because I see tons of Yukon buses laid over by Central Park South.  Maybe the X17 as well as you have a lot of them laid over by 42nd.  I don't think the North Shore buses have any relief drivers which is total BS, but not surprising.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some rookies will never get it and some do. It depends on the person and how they adjust to driving the bus. We have some senior drivers who are consistently late but as long as they get from Point A to Point B without scratching the paint, there is very little the company can do. Most passengers know who the turtles are and avoid their schedules.

For the most part the commuters at ShortLine understand that certain runs are "training runs" and plan accordingly. I had trainees Monday but I drove the morning half because the two buses ahead of me had mechanical problems plus there was and incident in the bus lane so we would have to run local to get to the tunnel. It was better for them to watch me and learn then me try to give them directions in that kind of a situation.

As far at the extra S.I. buses, I believe Yukon is the cover garage for S.I. express. I still see them on the x17J,x22J, and x31 all the time and Yukon does not have assigned runs on those lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some rookies will never get it and some do. It depends on the person and how they adjust to driving the bus. We have some senior drivers who are consistently late but as long as they get from Point A to Point B without scratching the paint, there is very little the company can do. Most passengers know who the turtles are and avoid their schedules.

 

For the most part the commuters at ShortLine understand that certain runs are "training runs" and plan accordingly. I had trainees Monday but I drove the morning half because the two buses ahead of me had mechanical problems plus there was and incident in the bus lane so we would have to run local to get to the tunnel. It was better for them to watch me and learn then me try to give them directions in that kind of a situation.

 

As far at the extra S.I. buses, I believe Yukon is the cover garage for S.I. express. I still see them on the x17J,x22J, and x31 all the time and Yukon does not have assigned runs on those lines.

That's interesting to note about Yukon...

 

As for Yonkers, we have TONS of rookies... I can't keep count, esp. since so many guys are getting fired...  <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Most express depots have runs that the drivers DH to a central spot in the AM/PM rush to cover trips if needed. I know for fact that Yonkers,College Pt,Eastchester and S.I. have this kind of a set up.

 

Second....we've had this discussion about the rookies. They need to be out there during the rush to see how things work, so they can find their groove on what works and what doesn't. There is no other way to do that besides having them run rush hour trips in service with an experienced driver to help them out. I've had new people all last week at ShortLine and they ran my schedule with 10 minutes of what I normally do. The passengers don't like it but they deal with it. If you know of a better way to train these new drivers then please share that idea with the rest of the group. :rolleyes:

 

I would be nice if the MTA offered a reduced or free fare in exchange for riding on a training route :)

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be nice if the MTA offered a reduced or free fare in exchange for riding on a training route :)

There's likely to much liability (even though it is practice at some transit agencies), but agreed that it would be a great idea.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be nice if the MTA offered a reduced or free fare in exchange for riding on a training route :)

I don't want a free ride.  It would just be nice to know when a trip is going to have a rookie so it can be avoided.  I've found that each time a rookie is on the line, the commute takes double or almost triple the time. Last summer I had a rookie on the BxM18.  Took almost an hour and a half for a 30 minute trip.  I got off shaking my head in disbelief. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remember that every senior , professional B/O, T/O, or C/R was a "slow" rookie at one time. That's the reason we all trained during rush hours. What happens when your "regular" pro is out sick or on vacation? Do you stay at home or do you make adjustments? That's a problem with so many impatient "self-important" riders. They're hard on rookies yet they forget that they were once new jacks in whatever field they're in today .Cut the rookies some slack. If you're on the way to perform open heart or brain surgery you shouldn't be on public transit anyway. Every one else should just sit back and take it easy. Carry on.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.