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46Dover

Railfans rewarded after harassment of NYPD officers at Broad Channel station

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While going through the July issue of Trains magazine, Don Phillips did an article about how an editor from Railfan and Railroad magazine and another person were taking pics of a historic train at Broad Channel station and were arrested by 4 NYPD cops. The case was thrown out and ACLU got involved helping these two folks earn $3000 each. Anyone else hear or read about this?

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No and wow harrasment over having a camera has really gotten too far in the subways and anywhere else nowadays....

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It's been for the most part kept under control. But Phillips also says this is more an issue on PATH now

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I'm only learning about this now too. It's about time transit enthusiasts put their foot down and fight. Rail-fanning is not a crime! Congratulations to the transit enthusiast for the victory for the help of the ACLU. It's about damn time. Hey many can learn from this.

 

 

Only $3000 each? I would have sued the police department for more.

It's a step in the right direction, we can look at it this way. A step at a time.

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Only $3000 each? I would have sued the police department for more.

 

Yeah, but the bottom line is they won their case. That to me is two victories for the railfan/transit community.

Edited by DJ MC
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The article said the judge for the hearing found each of the officers' version of the "photography law" amusing (each had a different version), and in the end, they wished they had never met the two gentlemen lol

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Glad to see the cops were reprimanded. The folks who were arrested did absolutely nothing illegal and they definitely deserved that cash after the hell they must've gone through.

 

On the topic of PATH, the Port Authority of NYNJ is not going to change their policy anytime soon, and because they are basically private with little oversight from the governors of NY and NJ they can get away with that policy and chances are 100% legal. Of course I would love to see the rule challenged in court. The PAPD takes photography extremely seriously even in their facilities without a written photo ban, such as the airports. I've personally dealt with them and have heard crazy stories about planespotters' memory cards being taken away. So an end to the policy might not change the PAPD's practice of harassing photographers. I think the real issue at Port is the fact that their police are out of control, IMO more than the NYPD. They are relentless and won't stop harassing innocent people until they're behind bars. Most of you know how I was treated by them at EWR, first of all they held me for hours just for walking into a PUBLIC BUILDING on the grounds that I could've been a runaway (I've heard plenty of stories about the same thing happening to others) then they treated me like a hardcore criminal, interrogated me and basically did everything possible to arrest me for anything. No doubt that if/when the PATH photo ban is lifted the PAPD will continue to harass railfans and others and if they can't get them for photography they will try to get them for anything else and won't stop until the person says the wrong shit or lets the cops do something they otherwise wouldn't be able to do (bag search, etc) and they end up being able to make an arrest. PAPD needs serious reform.

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As long as the arrest was cleared off my record, i'd be fine with only $3000. I mean seriously damn, how much do you guys want?

 

Correction: How long were they detained for? If it was a couple of days or more, then yeah, I see what you guys are talking about.

 

Although I hope this will send a message to all those cops out there who get a kick of messing with railfanners. (Even those who legit don't know should at least check with their superior. (I had a B/O who did that once... We cleared everything up, he was a nice guy))

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Orion VII 4 Life, on 29 Jun 2013 - 8:31 PM, said:

Glad to see the cops were reprimanded. The folks who were arrested did absolutely nothing illegal and they definitely deserved that cash after the hell they must've gone through.

 

On the topic of PATH, the Port Authority of NYNJ is not going to change their policy anytime soon, and because they are basically private with little oversight from the governors of NY and NJ they can get away with that policy and chances are 100% legal. Of course I would love to see the rule challenged in court. The PAPD takes photography extremely seriously even in their facilities without a written photo ban, such as the airports. I've personally dealt with them and have heard crazy stories about planespotters' memory cards being taken away. So an end to the policy might not change the PAPD's practice of harassing photographers. I think the real issue at Port is the fact that their police are out of control, IMO more than the NYPD. They are relentless and won't stop harassing innocent people until they're behind bars. Most of you know how I was treated by them at EWR, first of all they held me for hours just for walking into a PUBLIC BUILDING on the grounds that I could've been a runaway (I've heard plenty of stories about the same thing happening to others) then they treated me like a hardcore criminal, interrogated me and basically did everything possible to arrest me for anything. No doubt that if/when the PATH photo ban is lifted the PAPD will continue to harass railfans and others and if they can't get them for photography they will try to get them for anything else and won't stop until the person says the wrong shit or lets the cops do something they otherwise wouldn't be able to do (bag search, etc) and they end up being able to make an arrest. PAPD needs serious reform.

Indeed. I can't even add to this in the slightest. So I must ask a question. What is it with the PAPD that they must be so persistent in harrassing railfans who are simply pursuing a hobby in their taking of this to the extreme as they do as you've shared for us in other conversations off line as of late? It must be more to it then simply filling their monthly quotas. I mean they are even more out of control then the NYPD even as you've made abundantly clear.....

Edited by realizm

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Indeed. I can't even add to this in the slightest. So I must ask a question. What is it with the PAPD that they must be so persistent in harrassing railfans who are simply pursuing a hobby in their taking of this to the extreme as they do as you've shared for us in other conversations off line as of late? It must be more to it then simply filling their monthly quotas. I mean they are even more out of control then the NYPD even as you've made abundantly clear.....

I really don't know man. Could have something to do with them being the highest paid cops in the region, and the fact that they're responsible for our biggest targets, from all our airports to the WTC and PABT. They have to make it look like they're doing everything they can to "keep us safe". The detectives at EWR were very shocked that generally railfans aren't harassed by the NYPD, NJTPD or MTAPD and the fact that neither NJT or MTA strictly ban it, well typically if we're bothered it's a auick "what are you doing", "everything's OK have a good day" and you move on. You could tell they seemed to think NJT and MTA weren't doing their jobs because they didn't ban photography or harass people taking pics.

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Indeed. I can't even add to this in the slightest. So I must ask a question. What is it with the PAPD that they must be so persistent in harrassing railfans who are simply pursuing a hobby in their taking of this to the extreme as they do as you've shared for us in other conversations off line as of late? It must be more to it then simply filling their monthly quotas. I mean they are even more out of control then the NYPD even as you've made abundantly clear.....

Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of men....?

Edited by 46Dover
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I think I need to go back to grammar school. The title of this should have been Railfans awarded after harassment BY NYPD cops

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Only $3000 each? I would have sued the police department for more.

 

They didnt want the money more to prove a point

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While going through the July issue of Trains magazine, Don Phillips did an article about how an editor from Railfan and Railroad magazine and another person were taking pics of a historic train at Broad Channel station and were arrested by 4 NYPD cops. The case was thrown out and ACLU got involved helping these two folks earn $3000 each. Anyone else hear or read about this?

I don't understand what the cops were thinking when they arrested those people for taking pics of the train. I'd get maybe a warning or something, but usually if it was explained to some cops, they'd might understand and just let them be on their way. So in this case good for the ACLU for fighting this absurd use of power.

 

As for PATH, that ban is totally stupid. It's not like their system is anything special. It's more or less a glorified subway sharing RR row. "Oh wow someone took a picture of the train or station." I can understand maybe a ban for the river crossing stations, but the rest of the system? smh.

Edited by Grand Concourse

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Indeed. I can't even add to this in the slightest. So I must ask a question. What is it with the PAPD that they must be so persistent in harrassing railfans who are simply pursuing a hobby in their taking of this to the extreme as they do as you've shared for us in other conversations off line as of late? It must be more to it then simply filling their monthly quotas. I mean they are even more out of control then the NYPD even as you've made abundantly clear.....

 

It all goes back to 9/11. Remember, the twin towers were a Port Authority entity, and after the parking lot bombing and the plane attacks, the Port Authority became extremely sensitive and protective of their property and since, as others have noted, PAPD has little oversight (and the Port Authority has poor oversight to begin with), they get away with it in the name of national security. 

 

That being said, I have only had very positive interaction with PAPD officers in the few situations I've had contact with them (though, to be fair, none of which involved me being suspected of any crime/foul play/rule breaking/etc.)

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It all goes back to 9/11. Remember, the twin towers were a Port Authority entity, and after the parking lot bombing and the plane attacks, the Port Authority became extremely sensitive and protective of their property and since, as others have noted, PAPD has little oversight (and the Port Authority has poor oversight to begin with), they get away with it in the name of national security. 

 

That being said, I have only had very positive interaction with PAPD officers in the few situations I've had contact with them (though, to be fair, none of which involved me being suspected of any crime/foul play/rule breaking/etc.)

That probably plays a huge part in it, even if by the time 9/11 happened Larry Silverstein actually had taken over control of the buildings from the PA just weeks earlier.   Some people have very long memories and likely have the mentality some of those terrorists had these plans well-thought out for months and even years when 9/11 took place (the only reasons many more people were not killed that day IMO were the facts 9/11 just happened for many kids to be the first day of school, coupled with the primaries for Mayor and the fact the Giants happened to have been playing in the opening Monday night game against the Broncos and that game ran extremely late, causing many people to go into work a bit later than they normally would be).  It may very well if so have been passed down to newer generations there if so.

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That probably plays a huge part in it, even if by the time 9/11 happened Larry Silverstein actually had taken over control of the buildings from the PA just weeks earlier.   Some people have very long memories and likely have the mentality some of those terrorists had these plans well-thought out for months and even years when 9/11 took place (the only reasons many more people were not killed that day IMO were the facts 9/11 just happened for many kids to be the first day of school, coupled with the primaries for Mayor and the fact the Giants happened to have been playing in the opening Monday night game against the Broncos and that game ran extremely late, causing many people to go into work a bit later than they normally would be).  It may very well if so have been passed down to newer generations there if so.

 

 

Inscrutable, inaccurate, and simply strange. 

 

9/11 was not the first day of school for any schools I know of.

 

The primaries were moved because of 9/11; they were not on 9/11.

 

The Giants game had nothing to do with anything.

 

Next.

Edited by MHV9218

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Inscrutable, inaccurate, and simply strange. 

 

9/11 was not the first day of school for any schools I know of.

 

The primaries were moved because of 9/11; they were not on 9/11.

 

The Giants game had nothing to do with anything.

 

Next.

 

9/11 was the original primary day and a big deal was made about that at the time.  They did eventually have the primaries a couple of weeks later.   And I do remember hearing reports that many people were late going into work that morning because that was for some the first day of school (for most, the day before was the first day but some private schools might not have necessarily started on 9/10).  

 

The Giants game against the Broncos likely was the main reason more people were not killed.  That game ran until almost 1:00 in the morning and as a result many people overslept and were in many cases just late enough to not be there when the first plane hit (in fact, some of the documentaries on 9/11 have accounts from that day where people even said Monday Night Football saved their lives because otherwise they would have already been at work).

Edited by Wallyhorse

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9/11 was the original primary day and a big deal was made about that at the time. They did eventually have the primaries a couple of weeks later. And I do remember hearing reports that many people were late going into work that morning because that was for some the first day of school (for most, the day before was the first day but some private schools might not have necessarily started on 9/10).

 

The Giants game against the Broncos likely was the main reason more people were not killed. That game ran until almost 1:00 in the morning and as a result many people overslept and were in many cases just late enough to not be there when the first plane hit (in fact, some of the documentaries on 9/11 have accounts from that day where people even said Monday Night Football saved their lives because otherwise they would have already been at work).

BS. 9/11 Wasn't even the first day of school liked you claimed. Stop spreading false information please

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Tourists and many airline carriers don't know PANY&NJ restrict photography and at LGA, JFK, when tourists take picture, they don't see anything at all.

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BS. 9/11 Wasn't even the first day of school liked you claimed. Stop spreading false information please

I didn't claim anything, I said all along I was going by what was reported.

 

9/10 (as it was Monday) was for most kids, however, it was reported (probably erroneously) at the time that 9/11 was in some instances the first day of school for some kids.

 

Point was, whatever the reason(s), all of the things of that day added to up to why we were fortunate as to why we didn't lose more lives than we did and in the end that is what matters.

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