Grand Concourse Posted July 4, 2013 Share #26 Posted July 4, 2013 Um, the capital budget?? They're raising fares, generating revenue. Let's start seeing more improvements. Our subway system is like a 3rd world country. It's a joke. Only parts of it, you make it seem like one line represents the entire system. And when the r32 ac works properly, the cars are like iceboxes. R160s, sure the car cycles the air evenly, but if the car os crowded, you don't really feel cooled down as dramatically. Well they need to start making the changes to get them equipped to handle R160's... That's the story for the ... Too old to do this... Not equipped to do that... It's no wonder the subway system is in such terrible shape.... Those R179's I've been hearing about for years now... What's even scarier is they were going to keep those redbirds and just outfit then with new sensors... When they found out that the cost would be similar to putting in new door sensors that's when they started buying new cars... Well you tell me... What are the other options? They're in dire need of new cars and those R32's need to be replaced sooner rather than later so what other options do they have? They can keep trying to run the R32's for years to come and have to deal with more unreliable cars and more breakdowns or they can finally get rid of those hideous outdated subway cars. The has money for tons of useless project managers and bloated management, so they can find the money for more subway cars. and all this isn't stuff you can magically change in days. Of course i agree theres corruption and other source of waste that could be cut to afford the stuff now, but again, if the r32s are still working, then keep running them. The mta spent like $25mil recently to rehab the fleet, so thhey arent going to be scrapped after just a year. Theres also the point of doing more with less, not just throw away money on work already done just because you hate the old trains. No one is forcing you to stay on them. You don't like them, ride the other lines or the express buses. Fr me as long as the ac works, i dont care what is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted July 4, 2013 Share #27 Posted July 4, 2013 Well we aren't a 3rd world country. That's the point. NYC should be at the forefront, which includes our subway system... Considering that we are the only system in the world with this much service flexibility and the fact that we have local/express tracks to not only balance service, but double capacity as compared to each line being 2-track, I think we're still at the forefront. We don't need all that fancy tech to be at the top. If you wanna know what this system would look like if the IRT/BMT/IND hadn't used their brains, see London Underground. A system where even having trains arrive every 1-2 minutes isn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted July 4, 2013 Share #28 Posted July 4, 2013 @Via: That's what I was saying. @LTA: Yeah, or the one BRT bus line in Utrecht which runs every 30 seconds in rush hour with double articulated buses and every one of those buses is packed even with those double articulated buses and that insanely high frequency. The is doing the best they can but they can't do everything with all the factors in place (capacity, MONEY, nimby's in *some* areas like the Sea Beach line for example). It would be much worse if they didn't have the system they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted July 4, 2013 Share #29 Posted July 4, 2013 And if anyone has forgotten,those R32s would have already been retired EXCEPT for the fact THREE entire car classes that came later (R38s, R40s and R44s except for Staten Island) had to be retired because of various issues. That forced the to keep the R32s, which are now amazingly (or will be soon) in their 50th year of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted July 4, 2013 Share #30 Posted July 4, 2013 Actually, you can take the R38 and R40 off the list because them along with the 32 and 42 were ALL supposed to go at once. The R44 was supposed to be replaced with the 179 but due to unplanned circumstances, things had to be reversed with the 32 and 42 being finished off by the 179. I do kinda wish the kept plans to have the SIR fleet be replaced with 179s too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted July 4, 2013 Share #31 Posted July 4, 2013 Well you tell me... What are the other options? They're in dire need of new cars and those R32's need to be replaced sooner rather than later so what other options do they have? They can keep trying to run the R32's for years to come and have to deal with more unreliable cars and more breakdowns or they can finally get rid of those hideous outdated subway cars. The has money for tons of useless project managers and bloated management, so they can find the money for more subway cars. I believe my response was about the revenue...When other posters have brought forth ideas on how to improve the system, you have cut down their ideas by saying there is no revenue or not enough money. So suddenly there is revenue? What happened within the last couple months? You have found revenue? There's new money since a couple months ago? Surely MTA's treasurer would know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted July 4, 2013 Share #32 Posted July 4, 2013 Well they need to start making the changes to get them equipped to handle R160's... That's the story for the ... Too old to do this... Not equipped to do that... It's no wonder the subway system is in such terrible shape.... Those R179's I've been hearing about for years now... What's even scarier is they were going to keep those redbirds and just outfit then with new sensors... When they found out that the cost would be similar to putting in new door sensors that's when they started buying new cars... Well you tell me... What are the other options? They're in dire need of new cars and those R32's need to be replaced sooner rather than later so what other options do they have? They can keep trying to run the R32's for years to come and have to deal with more unreliable cars and more breakdowns or they can finally get rid of those hideous outdated subway cars. The has money for tons of useless project managers and bloated management, so they can find the money for more subway cars. 207th or Pitkin will be upgraded to handle the R179's by the time the R179's arrive. That's still a few years off. There was a tentative plan to retain a small number of redbirds for fleet expansion, since at the time the funding situation wasn't certain. In the end, a supplemental R142A order was funded, and all of the redbirds were retired. The option is to be patient and wait for the R179's. The R32's have sky high MDBF compared to any of the fleet 20-30 years ago. I've ridden a lot of R32's and I've never been on one that's broken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted July 4, 2013 Share #33 Posted July 4, 2013 I would like to point out to anyone saying that the MTA has money for new train cars, that the last three years of the current capital plan are completely funded by debt, even with the payroll tax. More debt means more service cuts, so there needs to be some source of stable long-term funding for all these projects (east river tolls, a higher payroll tax, etc.) nothing should be left off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lance Posted July 4, 2013 Share #34 Posted July 4, 2013 Well they need to start making the changes to get them equipped to handle R160's... That's the story for the ... Too old to do this... Not equipped to do that... It's no wonder the subway system is in such terrible shape.... Those R179's I've been hearing about for years now... What's even scarier is you tell me... What are the other options? They're in dire need of new cars and those R32's need to be replaced sooner rather than later so what other options do they have? They can keep trying to run the R32's for years to come and have to deal with more unreliable cars and more breakdowns or they can finally get rid of those hideous outdated subway cars. Even if 207th or Pitkin were able to take care of the 160s, those 32s have to go somewhere. And by the way, the 179 order was supposed to be made a few years ago but was delayed due to financial constraints. And while we're on the subject of the 32s, sure they aren't as reliable as the 160. That's a given. However, they aren't the lemons you're making them out to be. Also, since you mentioned them, you better get used to the 46s because they aren't going anywhere any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #35 Posted July 5, 2013 I believe my response was about the revenue...When other posters have brought forth ideas on how to improve the system, you have cut down their ideas by saying there is no revenue or not enough money. So suddenly there is revenue? What happened within the last couple months? You have found revenue? There's new money since a couple months ago? Surely MTA's treasurer would know.... I never said there was. I'm saying they need to find it one way or another. The fact is they can't keep running the same trains. They'll have to replaced at some point. 207th or Pitkin will be upgraded to handle the R179's by the time the R179's arrive. That's still a few years off. There was a tentative plan to retain a small number of redbirds for fleet expansion, since at the time the funding situation wasn't certain. In the end, a supplemental R142A order was funded, and all of the redbirds were retired. The option is to be patient and wait for the R179's. The R32's have sky high MDBF compared to any of the fleet 20-30 years ago. I've ridden a lot of R32's and I've never been on one that's broken down. That's always the story with them... Wait and wait and wait... Just like the Sea Beach line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #36 Posted July 5, 2013 The Sea Beach is getting its makeover along with Culver next year. You have till you have the money before you can do something. You don't go out and try to buy a Lamborghini when you only have 5,000 in the bank do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #37 Posted July 5, 2013 Only parts of it, you make it seem like one line represents the entire system. And when the r32 ac works properly, the cars are like iceboxes. R160s, sure the car cycles the air evenly, but if the car os crowded, you don't really feel cooled down as dramatically. and all this isn't stuff you can magically change in days. Of course i agree theres corruption and other source of waste that could be cut to afford the stuff now, but again, if the r32s are still working, then keep running them. The mta spent like $25mil recently to rehab the fleet, so thhey arent going to be scrapped after just a year. Theres also the point of doing more with less, not just throw away money on work already done just because you hate the old trains. No one is forcing you to stay on them. You don't like them, ride the other lines or the express buses. Fr me as long as the ac works, i dont care what is running. I don't make it seem like anything but what is reality, which is a very fragile system... It's not about me or forcing me to ride anything because the subway is not my primary means of transportation. Nevertheless I'm just telling it like it is. No point in sitting here and trying to sugarcoat things and make excuses. Considering that we are the only system in the world with this much service flexibility and the fact that we have local/express tracks to not only balance service, but double capacity as compared to each line being 2-track, I think we're still at the forefront. We don't need all that fancy tech to be at the top. If you wanna know what this system would look like if the IRT/BMT/IND hadn't used their brains, see London Underground. A system where even having trains arrive every 1-2 minutes isn't enough. lol... That's very funny... The Sea Beach is getting its makeover along with Culver next year. You have till you have the money before you can do something. You don't go out and try to buy a Lamborghini when you only have 5,000 in the bank do you? Hmm.... I wouldn't say that with too much certainty... The Sea Beach line was supposed to be done already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lance Posted July 5, 2013 Share #38 Posted July 5, 2013 And I doubt they intend to, but the lack of available options leaves their hands tied. Unless you have some sort of hard-on for a massive car shortage, you're going to have to deal. Besides, you don't ride the subway on the regular, much less the C or J lines, so why does it even matter to you anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #39 Posted July 5, 2013 And people call ME cynical. But then again, I can appreciate the benefits of a system like NYCs. Despite it's flaws. Maybe you should look at it this way, "It could be worse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted July 5, 2013 Share #40 Posted July 5, 2013 Quoted the wrong post; see post on next page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted July 5, 2013 Share #41 Posted July 5, 2013 I never said there was. I'm saying they need to find it one way or another. The fact is they can't keep running the same trains. They'll have to replaced at some point. That's always the story with them... Wait and wait and wait... Just like the Sea Beach line... You literaly said earlier in this thread there was revenue. Um, the capital budget?? They're raising fares, generating revenue. Let's start seeing more improvements. Our subway system is like a 3rd world country. It's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #42 Posted July 5, 2013 You literaly said earlier in this thread there was revenue. I'm saying there must be one way or another because if there isn't well then they're in deep trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted July 5, 2013 Share #43 Posted July 5, 2013 You literaly said earlier in this thread there was revenue. He said it, then he didn't. Must be what they call a paradox . Anyway, it's funny, because I actually saw a new train on the C line today at Jay st and I rode an R32 on the J today after transferring from the F. That was cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #44 Posted July 5, 2013 He said it, then he didn't. Must be what they call a paradox . Anyway, it's funny, because I actually saw a new train on the C line today at Jay st and I rode an R32 on the J today after transferring from the F. That was cool. I don't recall recanting. I said they must have the money and I still stick by that comment. It's like saying we don't have the money to redo the Sea Beach line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lance Posted July 5, 2013 Share #45 Posted July 5, 2013 I don't recall recanting. I said they must have the money and I still stick by that comment. It's like saying we don't have the money to redo the Sea Beach line... You keep sticking to your statements. I, like a lot of other people here, choose to stick to the facts. If the money was there, the cars would've ordered the 179s back in 2010 like they originally intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted July 5, 2013 Share #46 Posted July 5, 2013 You keep sticking to your statements. I, like a lot of other people here, choose to stick to the facts. If the money was there, the cars would've ordered the 179s back in 2010 like they originally intended. Apparently, according to the MTA treasurer, there is money from the fare increases and the capital budget. So you are mistaken. His statements ARE fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #47 Posted July 5, 2013 You keep sticking to your statements. I, like a lot of other people here, choose to stick to the facts. If the money was there, the cars would've ordered the 179s back in 2010 like they originally intended. Oh please. The has money for what they want to have money for. They've renovated some stations in the nice parts of Manhattan while leaving others looking like a dump like the ones in Washington Heights. They have money for and prioritize for what they feel is a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #48 Posted July 5, 2013 Oh please. The has money for what they want to have money for. They've renovated some stations in the nice parts of Manhattan while leaving others looking like a dump like the ones in Washington Heights. They have money for and prioritize for what they feel is a priority. It's called a schedule. There are other stations in Brooklyn and eastern Queens that need to be done first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted July 5, 2013 Share #49 Posted July 5, 2013 If the gets mostly R1xx before the , the riders will bitc_ since the will always be catching up and all… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted July 5, 2013 Share #50 Posted July 5, 2013 If the gets mostly R1xx before the , the riders will bitc_ since the will always be catching up and all… The rider will always complain, regardless. If anything they were lucky to not get stuck with the R32's this year. On a side note, it's hilarious to see that a topic started by captain obvious led to such a hilarious discussion over subway cars within the system. Not to be rude, but hasn't this been discussed to death? I mean seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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