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6 Lexington Ave

A new connection

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I would like to propose a new connection between two parts of the subway. This new connection would be built just railroad south of the Queensboro Plaza station on the Astoria line. It would connect the line to the 63rd street tunnel. This way when SAS opens, the Q would run up to 96th and the reinstated W or the N would run up to Lex/63rd and then east via the 63rd street tunnel onto the Astoria Line. OR the reinstated ORANGE W would begin at 2 av and run on the sixth avenue line to Astoria, although I'm not sure if there's the capacity for this. All this would reduce the strain on the 60th street tunnel.

 

Thoughts??

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Too much development going on in that area to make a connection like that viable. Landowners wouldn't like it and the residents of the new buildings would complain too much. Also, personally, I wouldn't count on a lot of those elevated structures staying around for that long. Sure 20, 30, and maybe even 40 years (tops), down the line those structures will be up, but when the area around the elevated really starts to grow economically and more affluent people move in those neighborhoods they will be begging the MTA to take the structures down and replace them with subways. That's the main reason why the MTA shouldn't invest too much money into the elevated line- except for repairs of course. 

Edited by DanTheTransitMan

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I would like to propose a new connection between two parts of the subway. This new connection would be built just railroad south of the Queensboro Plaza station on the Astoria line. It would connect the line to the 63rd street tunnel. This way when SAS opens, the Q would run up to 96th and the reinstated W or the N would run up to Lex/63rd and then east via the 63rd street tunnel onto the Astoria Line. OR the reinstated ORANGE W would begin at 2 av and run on the sixth avenue line to Astoria, although I'm not sure if there's the capacity for this. All this would reduce the strain on the 60th street tunnel.

 

Thoughts??

 

Not really a good idea. The room in the 63rd Street Tunnel is meant for a future Second Avenue Subway service to use since there is a connection to the 63rd Street Tunnel from the Second Avenue Subway. A better idea is to drill a new tunnel parallel to the 60th Street Tunnel to allow the (R) to use. It might sound a bit crazy but is it possible to send the (R) onto the Queensboro Bridge instead of drilling a new tunnel? I know elevated lines used the Queensboro Bridge in the past.

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Not really a good idea. The room in the 63rd Street Tunnel is meant for a future Second Avenue Subway service to use since there is a connection to the 63rd Street Tunnel from the Second Avenue Subway. A better idea is to drill a new tunnel parallel to the 60th Street Tunnel to allow the (R) to use. It might sound a bit crazy but is it possible to send the (R) onto the Queensboro Bridge instead of drilling a new tunnel? I know elevated lines used the Queensboro Bridge in the past.

Actually, that set of unused tunnels in the 63 St tubes will be used by LIRR as part of the Eat Side Access...

Edited by Fresh Pond

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Actually, that set of unused tunnels in the 63 St tubes will be used by LIRR as part of the Eat Side Access...

I think he was talking about the track capacity on the upper level of the tube and the bellmouths between 1st and 2nd avenue(s) that are supposed to connect with the future 55th street station.

Edited by DanTheTransitMan

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Actually, that set of unused tunnels in the 63 St tubes will be used by LIRR as part of the Eat Side Access...

 

 

Actually he is correct. Yes the tubes are two levels, lower level railroad specific level for the LIRR for east side access to Grand Central Station. However a pair of spurs exist on the upper mass transit subway level allowing access from Queens (QBL or the then proposed super express line as a part of MTA grand plans circa 1968) to the SAS going downtown. (Phase 3, see Dan's above post)

 

Image:

 

sas_phasing.jpg

Edited by realizm

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I would like to propose a new connection between two parts of the subway. This new connection would be built just railroad south of the Queensboro Plaza station on the Astoria line. It would connect the line to the 63rd street tunnel. This way when SAS opens, the Q would run up to 96th and the reinstated W or the N would run up to Lex/63rd and then east via the 63rd street tunnel onto the Astoria Line. OR the reinstated ORANGE W would begin at 2 av and run on the sixth avenue line to Astoria, although I'm not sure if there's the capacity for this. All this would reduce the strain on the 60th street tunnel.

 

Thoughts??

I don't think the ridership on the Astoria line merits additional service per se. I'm not saying the N and Q don't get crowded, but I think they handle the loads adequately. Moreso than queens blvd local at least.

 

Personally I'd like to see a free in-system transfer between Queens Plaza and Queensboro Plaza. It's a little far, but it could be done.

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Thanks but again I am still wondering if the Queensboro Bridge can handle subway trains since it handle elevated trains in the past. I hope someone can answer that question.

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Thanks but again I am still wondering if the Queensboro Bridge can handle subway trains since it handle elevated trains in the past. I hope someone can answer that question.

Not a difinitive answer, but many old elevated trains used wooden cars much lighter weight than modern subway equipment. I know a lot of elevated track had to be reinforced to handle steel equpment, and besides noise and other quality of life concerns, this contributed to much of the Elevated networks demolishment.

 

I would surmise that, without structural enhancements, the Ed Koch Queensboro 59th st bridge couldn't handle modern trains.

 

(The bridge so nice they named it thrice?)

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Not a difinitive answer, but many old elevated trains used wooden cars much lighter weight than modern subway equipment. I know a lot of elevated track had to be reinforced to handle steel equpment, and besides noise and other quality of life concerns, this contributed to much of the Elevated networks demolishment.

 

I would surmise that, without structural enhancements, the Ed Koch Queensboro 59th st bridge couldn't handle modern trains.

 

(The bridge so nice they named it thrice?)

 

See this is what I am fearing because it's more expensive to drill a tunnel underneath the East River to make room for the (R).

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Like the above poster said, the Queensboro Bridge would have to undergo a good deal of work to support the much heavier modern day subway cars.  Not to mention it would take an awful lot of work to built the approaches on both sides of the bridge.  It would be a very tight, very slow, and very expensive fit to get the trains out of the subway, over the bridge, then back in the subway in time for the Queens Plaza stop.

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I don't think the ridership on the Astoria line merits additional service per se. I'm not saying the N and Q don't get crowded, but I think they handle the loads adequately. Moreso than queens blvd local at least.

 

Personally I'd like to see a free in-system transfer between Queens Plaza and Queensboro Plaza. It's a little far, but it could be done.

 

According to the iTrans NYC map (which is more accurate than the old neighborhood maps - those had errors), the closest ends of the subway stations are a block apart. It's certainly doable. Heck, you could probably build a 5th Av type transfer there.

 

I would like to propose a new connection between two parts of the subway. This new connection would be built just railroad south of the Queensboro Plaza station on the Astoria line. It would connect the line to the 63rd street tunnel. This way when SAS opens, the Q would run up to 96th and the reinstated W or the N would run up to Lex/63rd and then east via the 63rd street tunnel onto the Astoria Line. OR the reinstated ORANGE W would begin at 2 av and run on the sixth avenue line to Astoria, although I'm not sure if there's the capacity for this. All this would reduce the strain on the 60th street tunnel.

 

Thoughts??

Don't think there's enough room for something like that to reach QBP's height. The descent into the 60th St tubes is already one of the steepest in the system.

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Well, the grade isn't really a problem. If we can do that over here than it wouldn't be a problem in NYC.

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I am wondering if it's possible to build a 52nd Street Tunnel to alleviate congestion at the 60th Street Tunnel. It seems doable....

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Well, the grade isn't really a problem. If we can do that over here than it wouldn't be a problem in NYC.

 

IIRC the subway trains can't handle super-steep grades (5.5% is pushing it, 6% might be the max). American railcars are built much heavier than their European or Asian counterparts.

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I think the best idea would be to dig a second level of tracks below the Broadway Line north of 42nd Street at roughly 45th Street and to send the (R) down there. At 49th Street station the (R) would stop at the lower level. After it passes the 49th Street station at roughly 52nd Street it would turn and run down 52nd Street in it's own tunnel. Of course it would remove the (R) at 57th Street but it would alleviate congestion at the 60th Street tunnel.

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American railcars are built much heavier than their European or Asian counterparts.

 

Okay, that SLT fleet in the other topic, I give you that one, that may not have been so easy after all. But you didn't do any research on this one.

With "here" I meant where I live: The Netherlands. Wanna compare subway car weights?

 

USA: The R160 weighs 38,600 KG.

Amsterdam: The M3 weighs 57,000 KG.

USA: The R142 weighs 30,000-33,000 KG (depending on A or B).

Amsterdam: The M5 (which was built this year!) weighs 190,000 KG

Edited by Vistausss

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But where would said tunnel connect with the 53 St tubes only a block away

 

It won't connect. It will run a block away from the 53rd Street tunnel.

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It won't connect. It will run a block away from the 53rd Street tunnel.

It still would have to cross under the 53 tube at one point or another to queens plaza

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We need a connection between Junius and Sutter.

You mean Junius (3)(4) and Livonia (L). But even then, wouldn't there be the issue of necessity?

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We need a connection between Junius and Sutter.

 

It would be nice if you could tell us why. Sure, some may get why you're proposing that but some may not. There has to be a reason to build a new connection and that should't be based on "because we can".

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