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What Really Causes Traffic Congestion


BrooklynBus

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I didn't say NYC is so great when it comes to public transportation. It's better in *some* ways. Just like *some* public transportation things are better over here. And some in Japan.

 

But if I'd had to choose I'd much rather live in NYC than in this hellhole (and with that I mean The Netherlands as a whole; the city I live in I do love for the most part but it only partially makes up for my country being a hellhole). That's why I'm registering for a Green Card in the fall.

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I didn't say NYC is so great when it comes to public transportation. It's better in *some* ways. Just like *some* public transportation things are better over here. And some in Japan.

 

But if I'd had to choose I'd much rather live in NYC than in this hellhole (and with that I mean The Netherlands as a whole; the city I live in I do love for the most part).

When I said what I said I was talking about more of the major Western European cities.  How big is Almere in comparison to other big cities in the Netherlands?

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Almere is currently about 2/3 the size of Amsterdam *but* it's rapidly growing and before 2022 it'll be bigger than Amsterdam.

 

But I was also talking about problems in other cities in my post, like Amsterdam for example which is a major city based on your logic. Still, this is quite offtopic and we better discuss in the World Transit Systems part of the forum.

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Almere is currently about 2/3 the size of Amsterdam *but* it's rapidly growing and before 2022 it'll be bigger than Amsterdam.

 

But I was also talking about other cities in my post, like Amsterdam for example which is a major city based on your logic.

Well like I said nothing is perfect. My standards and yours are different though because I live in a more suburban area. During rush hour I have express bus service about every 15 minutes and outside of that every 30 minutes to the city.  That's sufficient for me.

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True that bro.

And of course nothing is perfect, I was just trying to state that outsiders always think it's so good here which it isn't. Tourists (or outsiders like you) don't see most problems (especially in Amsterdam where all the tourists go) because they don't live here (or try to learn what's going on here like I do on this forums to learn about NYC).

 

But like I said: this is quite offtopic and we better discuss in the World Transit Systems part of the forum.

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the fact remains that I come up with solutions to these problems, regardless of how controversial or extreme they may be. you have yet to come up with any. law enforcement is not a solution.

 

alright, so you were the first to say something about a 2 mile walk in this thread and you do not want to back it up with any example. fine. I am not sure what % of NYC residents would have to do that on a regular basis if they eschewed cars, but ok. I suppose cars are needed for that.

 

although I have no way of knowing if a car/car service would only be needed for part of the trip rather than the whole trip.

 

you want to construe my point of view as being one that depicts cars as a nuisance instead of acknowledging the fact that they, allied with human nature, cause difficult problems that require thinking outside the box, fine if that satisfies you.

 

I could construe what you said months ago about the large number of pedestrians around Flatbush/Nostrand Aves as statements that imply that pedestrians are a nuisance.

 

you went from acknowledging the fact that traffic around Flatbush/Nostrand Aves was bad ("with the amount of traffic around the Junction, building a portal there would be suicide IMO." remember when you said that when we were discussing extending the IRT Nostrand Ave line?) to saying that the traffic around Flatbush/Nostrand Aves was not that bad, which is incorrect and seemed like an attempt to get out of discussing real problems that should be fixed. you also blamed the traffic problem around JCT on the large number of pedestrians in the area, when the large number of private vehicles and cabs there, not the large number of pedestrians, is chiefly responsible for the congestion in that area.

 

and perhaps if motorists knew better than to mow down pedestrians while making right turns from Flatbush to Nostrand, we would not need all-walk phases at that intersection.

 

funny how Via G liked your post even though Via G complained about the nuisances he experiences on Lexington, for which cars are directly or indirectly responsible.

 

regardless of whether I think cars are a nuisance or cars cause nuisances (which Via G, myself, and others want fixed), I made proposals to do something about those nuisances. you did not. Via G did not. (he mentioned making mass transit 'nicer' and whatnot, which may be ok but would be costly and politically difficult since taxpayer money would be involved and does not directly attack the issue with cars occupying street space and nobody wanting to give that up.)

 

seems that y'all want no part of my solutions despite not stating your own. if that is the case, then it seems like Via G brought up the issue with Lexington just to hear himself talk. it also seems that you, peacemaker, say whatever you say in response to some of my posts, while coming up with no solutions of your own, just to hear yourself talk.

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Traffic seems to be caused by inexperienced drivers and it's so annoying. I see it all the time, on the highway on main roads, etc. You have slow people in the left lane, cabbies on the highway cruising in the middle lane impeding traffic flow. People going slow and then you see them on their cellphones. People slamming on their breaks when someone is getting on the highway as opposed to moving over, merging difficulties, etc. There are just so many observations. Highway congestion is just irritating because most of the time there is no reason for the back up, and traffic at certain points just opens up. 

 

But if we're talking about pedestrians and regular streets, congestion is caused by traffic lights that are not green long enough, vehicles blocking intersections, a-holes cruising down the street when they see the light is about to turn yellow >10 seconds, pedestrians crossing whenever they want to WITHOUT paying attention to traffic or traffic lights. Double parked vehicles causes problems too, however it can be worse when the drivers don't let the stuck vehicles go around etc.

And people crossing the road is to blame?  How?

 

 

I believe he means people crossing when they are not suppose to or crossing where there is no crosswalks and such. (ie jay-walking)

 

A big example would be around 8 Av Brooklyn area where it most cases it's clearly not a green/walk light for the people but they cross anyway and I hate that whenever I drive along the area.

People crossing are annoying.  They may need to separate the timing when pedestrians can walk and when cars can turn. They block the crosswalk and so cars have to wait until the light turns Red half the time, and there is no turn on red so traffic backs up. 

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People crossing are annoying.  They may need to separate the timing when pedestrians can walk and when cars can turn. They block the crosswalk and so cars have to wait until the light turns Red half the time, and there is no turn on red so traffic backs up. 

Wow, could you be anymore inconsiderate towards pedestrians?

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People crossing are annoying.  They may need to separate the timing when pedestrians can walk and when cars can turn. They block the crosswalk and so cars have to wait until the light turns Red half the time, and there is no turn on red so traffic backs up. 

 

Well that can't be helped and as a driver I'm not too bothered by that.  I actually don't like people that jay-walk when you know there's traffic coming through.  As well as pedestrians that cross when clearly the signal advises them not to, people crossing when they have the go-ahead to is fine by mine if I'm waiting to turn right or left.

 

Wow, could you be anymore inconsiderate towards pedestrians?

 

Some-what agree with this, as it's not their fault unless the light is red for them.

 

----

 

Another note, I like how BrooklynIRT down votes one of my first post on this topic which actually agrees with the topic he is defending.  Makes me wonder what his views really are now.

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People crossing are annoying.  They may need to separate the timing when pedestrians can walk and when cars can turn. They block the crosswalk and so cars have to wait until the light turns Red half the time, and there is no turn on red so traffic backs up. 

 

Thank you for supporting my view that Long Islanders are horrible, horrible drivers.

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At intersections where cars are unable to turn because of pedestrians the solution is to either create separate light phases for each or to restrict pedestrians from crossing on that side of the turn.  In Midtown for example pedestrians are physically restricted from crossing on the south side of some intersections and are forced to walk 1/3 of a block down to cross at a pedestrian crosswalk.  This only delays pedestrians crossing on that side of the street by about 20 seconds or so and allows many more cars to turn.

 

Also at 63 St/2 Av pedestrians are physically unable to cross 2 Av on the south side of the street to allow for cars to get from the FDR Drive to the Queensboro Bridge faster and to prevent a backlog of cars waiting to turn while pedestrians cross. 

 

Of course you can never blame pedestrians for crossing at a marked crosswalk when they have the light.  It's just that in some places it would make sense to restrict crossing or give cars time to turn without interference from pedestrians so that traffic can move smoothly and prevent any gridlock not only at that intersection but at other surrounding intersections.

 

 

 

Thank you for supporting my view that Long Islanders are horrible, horrible drivers.

 

What does that have anything to do with how good of a driver anyone is?  When pedestrians cross they prevent cars from turning, obviously.  If pedestrians are crossing for the entire light phase then only the cars in the intersection already can make the turn, which would be only two or three cars.  He's not blaming the pedestrians for doing what they're allowed to do, he's just suggesting an alternative that would both allow pedestrians to cross and vehicles to cross without having them interfere with one another, which makes it both safer for pedestrians and also easier for cars.

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Another note, I like how BrooklynIRT down votes one of my first post on this topic which actually agrees with the topic he is defending.

 

actually that was about the bike lanes. it was in response to "an entire lane for bikes is too much," although to be honest with you it was partially that and partially the fact that somebody else downvoted it and so I was encouraged to do the same. could have also been b/c I was spending too much time on the computer or something.

 

but that (the thing with downvoting) is not typical of me and will not be repeated, and I apologize. it was stupid of me to do that. I overlooked the part of your post about parking (which I do agree with) and focused too much on bike lanes. and I probably should have more carefully examined what you said there.

 

I also wish my downvote could be removed.

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Thank you for supporting my view that Long Islanders are horrible, horrible drivers.

 

That doesn't have anything to do with his point and aside from that: as far as I understood in the NICE section it's quite some people in Nassau County who drive horribly and Nassau isn't the only part of LI...

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Of course you can never blame pedestrians for crossing at a marked crosswalk when they have the light.  It's just that in some places it would make sense to restrict crossing or give cars time to turn without interference from pedestrians so that traffic can move smoothly and prevent any gridlock not only at that intersection but at other surrounding intersections.

 

This is, of course, under the faulty assumption that the priority of traffic engineers, first and foremost, is to move the most amount of automobile traffic through an intersection in a given amount of time. Pedestrians should have priority in Midtown simply because when it comes down to sheer numbers, they are the overwhelming majority of street users in the area during the weekday.

 

I believe what you're referring to as a separate phase is known as a "Barnes dance" where a separate phase is given to all pedestrians so that they can cross in all directions, but that only really works if you have an intersection with more than four roads (otherwise the delay from the extra phase only slows down traffic and people even more). Times Sq and Herald Sq would be the perfect candidates for such a thing, but other intersections, probably not.

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This is, of course, under the faulty assumption that the priority of traffic engineers, first and foremost, is to move the most amount of automobile traffic through an intersection in a given amount of time. Pedestrians should have priority in Midtown simply because when it comes down to sheer numbers, they are the overwhelming majority of street users in the area during the weekday.

 

I believe what you're referring to as a separate phase is known as a "Barnes dance" where a separate phase is given to all pedestrians so that they can cross in all directions, but that only really works if you have an intersection with more than four roads (otherwise the delay from the extra phase only slows down traffic and people even more). Times Sq and Herald Sq would be the perfect candidates for such a thing, but other intersections, probably not.

If the priority of traffic engineers was to move the most amount of automobile traffic, pedestrians would not have the right of way. Also you would not have intersections where the signal turns green for pedestrians five seconds before I turns green for traffic to give pedestrians a head start to make sure they get the right of way.

 

Here's more:

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/07/on-the-use-of-cars-versus-more-mass-transit/

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This is, of course, under the faulty assumption that the priority of traffic engineers, first and foremost, is to move the most amount of automobile traffic through an intersection in a given amount of time. Pedestrians should have priority in Midtown simply because when it comes down to sheer numbers, they are the overwhelming majority of street users in the area during the weekday.

 

You're painting traffic engineers with an awfully broad brush. Modern traffic engineering recognizes that there's more to the profession than moving cars. (Yes, there are certainly still some old-school traffic engineers, especially outside the New York area - old habits die hard - but the profession as a whole is a lot more enlightened now.)

 

One of the participants here (RIPTA42) has identified himself as a traffic engineer, and he seems to agree with your second sentence 100% (as do I).

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