QM16/QM17 To Make Stops on Woodhaven Blvd

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So why do they have the stops up already if the buses don't officially stop there??

They always put up the signs a week or two before it official starts, but this is kinda weird. Out of all stops, 63 Drive, smack in the middle of Queens, is chosen as a stop.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They always put up the signs a week or two before it official starts, but this is kinda weird. Out of all stops, 63 Drive, smack in the middle of Queens, is chosen as a stop.

Yeah but this isn't even official...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yeah but this isn't even official...

From what I heard, they just need to put the new info into the bus stops, and schedules, and remind the BO's to make the extra stop , and make agreements with ATU (Not so sure about the latter, but it's a chance). Yes sometimes they do service changes when the pick isnt until a while (does happen). Besides this is one stop, so I doubt it will increase run time by much, so this might end it being a mid-pick change (summer pick started a few weeks ago).

[NewFlyer 230]

Well they're either looking to have one thing or the other happen... Either increased ridership on the lines due to better frequencies or they're looking to see who takes what where so that they can cut something. Express bus service is under severe scrutiny and there is no question that the has been trying to slowly cut away anything that they can and they're starting to try to cut into the meat now. Communities dependent upon express bus service need to be very careful about this situation, vocal and vigilant of the schedule adjustments and fight to keep their service. I think most of the recent moves have made sense, as they have been reasonable in terms of trying to get more usage out of the express buses where they're needed more, but this is a very delicate situation that needs to be watched carefully as time goes on.

But until the Merger is complete doesn't the City still pay for MTA bus routes. I thought the MTA bus routes only had little impact on the MTA except for vehicle maintenance and fuel cost. Now if its because the MTA is to cut service why wasn't the very low ridership routes eliminated and fixed a long time ago like the NYCT routes were. A majority of the MTA routes would of either been cut or reconstructed . A few I know off the top of my head that have poor ridership are the Q19, Q67, Q101, Q102, Q103, Q104, QM3, QM4, QM21.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

From what I heard, they just need to put the new info into the bus stops, and schedules, and remind the BO's to make the extra stop , and make agreements with ATU (Not so sure about the latter, but it's a chance). Yes sometimes they do service changes when the pick isnt until a while (does happen). Besides this is one stop, so I doubt it will increase run time by much, so this might end it being a mid-pick change (summer pick started a few weeks ago).

Yep summer pick just started recently...

 

But until the Merger is complete doesn't the City still pay for MTA bus routes. I thought the MTA bus routes only had little impact on the MTA except for vehicle maintenance and fuel cost. Now if its because the MTA is to cut service why wasn't the very low ridership routes eliminated and fixed a long time ago like the NYCT routes were. A majority of the MTA routes would of either been cut or reconstructed like a few I know off the top of my head like the Q19, Q21, Q67, Q101, Q102, Q103, Q104, QM3, QM4, QM21.

Yes the city reimburses the for any losses, but that doesn't mean that they won't cut service if the ridership isn't there to support it.  Bus service in general (express and local) is being scaled back.  It's ridiculous quite frankly because I don't see how the can claim that the want to boost ridership on buses and yet constantly look to cut bus service.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

From ex-PBL, the MTA wanted to combine the QM15/QM23/BQM1 into a super route like the QM1A (in this case though, the QM23 would be a branch of the BQM1, which would be a branch of the QM15). However, it never got through. When the BM5 started making stops back in April 2010, that gave the MTA a good chance to cut service on the QM23 for good (since the QM23 was really a variant of the BM5 from then on), and as well combine the two routes together (QM15/BM5) and their headways be double of what the current QM15 is (6 rush, 60 middays, 60 PM reverse to Manhattan and 60 Middays, and 10 PM peak to Queens, and 60 evening to Queens). At that time it was feasible, since the BM5 ran up to 3:40 PM to Manhattan (an extra trip would be added I guess) and have a BxM4A/B service type. However that failed when:

 

1. The BM5 was cut to 12:35 PM to Manhattan 

2. Midday BM5 service was increased to 70 minutes to Manhattan, and 60 back. 

 

I dont know how this stop will mess up Current BM5/QM15 stopping patterns, but I'm not seeing the reason for this random stop on 63 Drive

[NewFlyer 230]

The BM5 will be cut out of the picture completely eventually just like they are trying to do with the local routes. Before the Q21 extension the Q11 had over 12,000 riders now it has only a little over 5,000. I have a feeling the same will somewhat happen to the Q53 with the Q52 but not as bad but mainly the Local routes will be effected mostly likely.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The BM5 will be cut out of the picture completely eventually just like they are trying to do with the local routes. Before the Q21 extension the Q11 had over 12,000 riders now it has only a little over 5,000. I have a feeling the same will somewhat happen to the Q53 with the Q52 but not as bad but mainly the Local routes will be effected mostly likely.

The BM5 cant be cut. Those riders will have a fit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BM5 cant be cut. Those riders will have a fit.

The BM5 is on life support IMO.  It's been cut to 12:35 during the week.  It may just become a rush hour route.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yep summer pick just started recently...

Yes the city reimburses the for any losses, but that doesn't mean that they won't cut service if the ridership isn't there to support it.  Bus service in general (express and local) is being scaled back.  It's ridiculous quite frankly because I don't see how the can claim that the want to boost ridership on buses and yet constantly look to cut bus service.

 

simple if you don't use it you lose it.

 

The BM5 cant be cut. Those riders will have a fit.

unlike a certain bxm line the bm5 is used and has the ridership to back it up so how can bm5 increase ridership again?

[NewFlyer 230]

To this day I never understood the point of the Q21 on Woodhaven and the Q53 duplicated that route before when it went to Rockaway Park. If the Q11 was so crowded why not just increase service instead of having all these different routes on Woodhaven. That's what confuses people unfortunately. I would just have people transfer to the Q11 from the Q41 in lindenwood. The BM5 will most likely lose all weekend service and become a rush hour only route. The QM15 will probably gain Sunday service. I hope the DOT replaces all those bus signs with the newer ones. Those old ones look so sloppy with all those add-on's and I wouldn't be suprised if there are soon three different guide a ride boxes on one pole.

[limitednyc]

To this day I never understood the point of the Q21 on Woodhaven and the Q53 duplicated that route before when it went to Rockaway Park. If the Q11 was so crowded why not just increase service instead of having all these different routes on Woodhaven. That's what confuses people unfortunately. I would just have people transfer to the Q11 from the Q41 in lindenwood. The BM5 will most likely lose all weekend service and become a rush hour only route. The QM15 will probably gain Sunday service. I hope the DOT replaces all those bus signs with the newer ones. Those old ones look so sloppy with all those add-on's and I wouldn't be suprised if there are soon three different guide a ride boxes on one pole.

 

you may not understand but it has to do with the commmunities they all wanted access to the woodhaven coridor.

 

as for the express routes the bm5/qm16/17 tey are triing to suck ridership off the qm15 in order cut service.

[Turbo19]

To this day I never understood the point of the Q21 on Woodhaven and the Q53 duplicated that route before when it went to Rockaway Park. If the Q11 was so crowded why not just increase service instead of having all these different routes on Woodhaven. That's what confuses people unfortunately. I would just have people transfer to the Q11 from the Q41 in lindenwood. The BM5 will most likely lose all weekend service and become a rush hour only route. The QM15 will probably gain Sunday service. I hope the DOT replaces all those bus signs with the newer ones. Those old ones look so sloppy with all those add-on's and I wouldn't be suprised if there are soon three different guide a ride boxes on one pole.

It all goes back to the creation of the routes. As limitednyc elaborated, both communities wanted access to Woodhaven. Having both routes on the boulevard provided more service at a greater frequency for passengers traveling between that corridor. If it was one route only, there would be less service on Woodhaven altogether.

[bobtehpanda]

It all goes back to the creation of the routes. As limitednyc elaborated, both communities wanted access to Woodhaven. Having both routes on the boulevard provided more service at a greater frequency for passengers traveling between that corridor. If it was one route only, there would be less service on Woodhaven altogether.

 

What I consider the confusing thing is that if you're not from the area, nothing about the bus route numbering suggests that they serve similar areas. Four different, unrelated route numbers is probably disorienting to new users.

[Turbo19]

What I consider the confusing thing is that if you're not from the area, nothing about the bus route numbering suggests that they serve similar areas. Four different, unrelated route numbers is probably disorienting to new users.

Which is true. Perhaps it could be simplified a bit by separating the routes in lettered branches (A, B, C, etc.).

[aemoreira81]

The BM5 will be cut out of the picture completely eventually just like they are trying to do with the local routes. Before the Q21 extension the Q11 had over 12,000 riders now it has only a little over 5,000. I have a feeling the same will somewhat happen to the Q53 with the Q52 but not as bad but mainly the Local routes will be effected mostly likely.

 

The Q11 and Q21 are essentially the same route between Pitkin Avenue and Elmhurst...I agree with another poster that the route needs suffixing (short turns ending at Pitkin would get no suffix). The initial combination combined the Q21 to Rockaway Park with the Q11 short turns, reducing the number of short turns.

 

As for adding stops on the QM16 and QM17, I suspect that the QM15 is the route that will see a reduction in runs...and this may be a plan to get all of the MCIs at JFK to be at Far Rockaway again. Given that the QM18 has been reduced to 5 runs each way, I see that route as potentially being discontinued down the line, or combined with the QM21 with the portion of the QM18 south of Linden Boulevard eliminated in the desire to clear JFK of MCIs...keep in mind that they have to maintain 5 different models of buses (RTSs, MCIs, New Flyer artics, and 2 models of Orion 7s)...and with a few more artics from storage and a move of the QM15 and QM18 to Far Rockaway, JFK could be operated with just 3 models of buses (while Far Rockaway would have only 2).

[qjtransitmaster]

The Q11 and Q21 are essentially the same route between Pitkin Avenue and Elmhurst...I agree with another poster that the route needs suffixing (short turns ending at Pitkin would get no suffix). The initial combination combined the Q21 to Rockaway Park with the Q11 short turns, reducing the number of short turns.

 

As for adding stops on the QM16 and QM17, I suspect that the QM15 is the route that will see a reduction in runs...and this may be a plan to get all of the MCIs at JFK to be at Far Rockaway again. Given that the QM18 has been reduced to 5 runs each way, I see that route as potentially being discontinued down the line, or combined with the QM21 with the portion of the QM18 south of Linden Boulevard eliminated in the desire to clear JFK of MCIs...keep in mind that they have to maintain 5 different models of buses (RTSs, MCIs, New Flyer artics, and 2 models of Orion 7s)...and with a few more artics from storage and a move of the QM15 and QM18 to Far Rockaway, JFK could be operated with just 3 models of buses (while Far Rockaway would have only 2).

to be brutally honest they should just obliterate Qm21& 18 completely. Since the van wyck sucks so much take some x63s that run at the height of rush hr when I-678 is at it's worst and have em run on lefferts to skip that traffic disaster. However at pm the 6 pm departures after 6:15 from Manhattan can remain on the van wyck due to traffic easing up.

[NewFlyer 230]

Yeah I see the QM21 and QM18 being eliminated. BP only has 7 MCI'S and probably will need the room for the artics going to that depot.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yeah I see the QM21 and QM18 being eliminated. BP only has 7 MCI'S and probably will need the room for the attics going to that depot.

They have the ridership (really, being serious) but sadly yeah I can see them cut into it.

[Q101viaSteinway]

qm18 already is at rockaway depot

[Gotham Bus Co.]

According to statistics

 

2012 Ridership per weekday was 367 (QM16) and 405 (QM17). 

 

The QM16 had 15 runs, an average of 24.4 riders per bus

 

The QM17 had 17 runs, an average of 23.8 riders per bus as per 2012 stats

 

I honestly dont see the reason for the extra stop(s).

 

You just stated the reason - an average load of about 24 per bus means that QM16 and QM17 buses are typically less than half-full.

 

There are only two ways to increase the average load to over 50 per bus...

 

Cut the weakest trips from the QM16 and QM17.

 

Have the QM16/17 make added stops, then cut trips from the QM15 and/or BM5.

 

Option is a political non-starter. A mix of Options and is also a non-starter. Therefore, option by itself is the only way to go.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Yeah I see the QM21 and QM18 being eliminated. BP only has 7 MCI'S and probably will need the room for the artics going to that depot.

 

The artics wil displace standard buses, not MCI's.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

You just stated the reason - an average load of about 24 per bus means that QM16 and QM17 buses are typically less than half-full.

 

There are only two ways to increase the average load to over 50 per bus...

 

Cut the weakest trips from the QM16 and QM17.

 

Have the QM16/17 make added stops, then cut trips from the QM15 and/or BM5.

 

Option is a political non-starter. A mix of Options and is also a non-starter. Therefore, option by itself is the only way to go.

Yeah, you need 20 riders to break even on those routes, because it takes longer than an hour

 

The BM5 is already every 20 minutes at rush hour, thu aren't gonna cut some of those trips.

 

No express bus route has more then 36 riders per bus at this moment.

[Q43LTD]

 

 

 

 

 

On the QM16/17? Restoring what stops......

 

 

The stops along Woodhaven/Cross Bay during their GBL days

[AndrewJC]

Yeah, you need 20 riders to break even on those routes, because it takes longer than an hour

 

An express bus route carrying an average of 20 riders per trip does not come close to breaking even.