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389 MTA Bus Company's Orion VII hybrids to be converted/re-powered to Diesel Fuel


DJ MC

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Shop Plan - Hybrid fleet re-powering/conversion to diesel.

MTA Bus has a fleet of hybrid electric buses that are exhibiting a steep downward trend in MDBF and a significant level of component failures compared to other fleets, due to the higher speed of operation for these buses.

In 2012, the Board approved a procurement to convert one hybrid bus to clean diesel propulsion. 

Based on the successful conversion, MTA Bus is seeking to convert the remaining 283 (Orion VII) hybrid buses placed in service in 2006 and 2007, as well as the remaining 105 (Orion VII Next Generation) hybrid buses in the MTA Bus fleet that were placed in service during 2009 and 2010.

The conversion will extend the useful life of all 389 buses by three years and will defer bus replacement expenses by almost $200 million from the 2015 - 2019 Capital Program to the 2020 - 2024 Capital Program for the 2006 and 2007 models.

The conversion cost is projected to be $19.1 million in 2015 and $19.7 million in 2016. The total cost of converting the entire MTA Bus hybrid fleet of 389 buses (including 105 buses placed in service during 2009 and 2010) is $52.0 million, but the net cost of the conversion will be $26.7 million, since there will be offsets from the elimination of budgeted cost for hybrid component replacement that will be avoided by fleet conversion. 

These costs primarily represent vendor contract expenses.

 

 

Post from subchat.

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Well the source is SubChat, so I'm exercising my discretion.

 

Just kidding, This seemed to be a good solution from the start. I'm all for environmentally sensitive, but if the MTA had to replace the components (batteries, internal fixtures, etc.) and as it stood the buses weren't performing at their best than a conversion would be in the best interest.

 

What I am slightly worried about is the structural integrity of the buses as they age. Sure the engines will hold as they're new, but if the buses wear out then they'll have to be replaced sooner than expected. Just a thought for the future.

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Well the source is SubChat, so I'm exercising my discretion.

 

Just kidding, This seemed to be a good solution from the start. I'm all for environmentally sensitive, but if the MTA had to replace the components (batteries, internal fixtures, etc.) and as it stood the buses weren't performing at their best than a conversion would be in the best interest.

 

What I am slightly worried about is the structural integrity of the buses as they age. Sure the engines will hold as they're new, but if the buses wear out then they'll have to be replaced sooner than expected. Just a thought for the future.

 

Just to throw this out it's from the 2014-2017 financial plan, somewhere. I'm not looking through all of that. :P

 

 http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/july2013.html

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I doubt they're too keen on getting the only non-ancient diesel buses out of MTAB...that would leave nothing but RTSes, O5s, and D60HFs for the non-CNG fleet. There aren't enough new diesel buses that could be swapped without making the fleet age even worse.

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What a waste of money for a big 3 year life extension. They are still going to need to buy new buses, it just gets pushed off to the next funding cycle when there will probably be a new board, new governor, etc., and thus will be someone else's headache. 

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Well BP and SC really took care of the hybrids. It was LGA, JFK and FR that messed them up and again with the bus swaps made almost all 283 Orion VII's bad. 3500- 3523 was originally at BP and when they switched to FR they were trashed. The Orion VII NG's are at JFK and LGA and that was a mistake. Many JFK Orion NG's sound horrible why not give them to BP when they were first ordered and have the remaining go to FR. Now all 389 MTA bus Orion VII's are not in the best condition.

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Good move. Modern diesel engines are incredibly efficient, and by 2015, MaxxForce and EcoMotors' heavy duty opoc engine will likely be ready and available for commercial production to be used on these buses.

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I thought hybrid was better? I know clean diesel is better than before but isn't it still bad for the environment.

"Hybrid buses" still use a diesel engine to power the electric propulsion system. In reality, all hybrid vehicles are bad for the environment because of the hazardous waste produced when manufacturing and/or discarding storage batteries
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So is CNG better then a hybrid electric? Also is CNG better than Clean diesel?

The CNG tanks on the new C40LFs are rated for 20 years and are thus expected to outlast the buses. CNG is slightly better because the price of CNG has fallen through the cellar. ..that is why some agencies have gone all CNG (such as the Los Angeles County MTA, which has the largest all-CNG fleet in the USA at about 2,700 or so buses).

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So is CNG better then a hybrid electric? Also is CNG better than Clean diesel?

Battery electric > CNG > clean diesel

 

Hybrids irrelevant now that clean diesel engines are so efficient and battery technology is advancing.

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I think you mean the other way around

 

clean diesel > CnG > hybrid electric

What? I didn't put hybrid electric in my list, I put battery electric. Reading comprehension, it rocks.

Battery electric vehicles are kind of cleanest because they don't have any emissions, so I'm gonna assume you're confused.

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