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Random Thoughts Thread - Suffolk County Transit


Amtrak7
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Interesting. Good find!

 

Finally, SCT is waking up and adding even more service. There is still a long way to go, however this is a good start.

 

 

SCT has always been aware of their problems. It was said back in the mid 80's that SCT knew that their service wasn't the best but due to the size of the county and lack of money what they had was the best they could do.

 

The reason they haven't been able to do anything was that there was always a budget problem (which lead to at least 4 routes being cut from 1990-1999) where they didn't have the funds and they had a ridership that couldn't afford the fare hikes that were needed to expand service and didn't want said fare hikes.  Now the County has a government that is willing to use Transportation as a way to better help the budget (one fare increase went to helping the county budget) and a ridership that seemes for the most part willing to accept a fare increase if it means added service. (There was a little annouance when they raised the fares to help the county budget.) 

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  • 6 months later...

The S40 already serves Montauk Highway between Babylon and Patchogue, and the n19 serves it west of Babylon.

Oh, so it won't be replacing the S40. Thought you were proposing a merger of the S40 and S20. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have a question

 

Why is it that the pole to pole bus journey of the S62 is more faster than the s58 bus...i mean the headway for the S62 is 1h40 minutes from Hauppauge North comple. ToTowards riverhead via port Jefferson. ..if it is late maximum is 10 minutes late ...but the s58 can get up to 20minutes late

 

Last Wednesday i ALMOST got stranded in riverhead because the 440pm s58 towards riverhead leaving east Northport arrived commack (where i boarded at 4:52pm) and i arrived at riverhead county ctr at 6:55pn...it was 6:45pm and the s58 still didint. Pass yet tanger outlets riverhead. ..i knew by far i wasn't going to make the connection. ..it was 6:47 and it passed tanger. ..so at 6:48pm i told the busdriver. "Sir areyou gonna make it for the connection to the s66 at 6:50...He told me i hope so. But I'll radio the s66 driver that i have a couple of tranafers for you please wait for me 2 minutes

 

"58 to the 66 ill be there in 2 minutes I have transfer"

 

It wwas 654pm and finally the s58 arrived riverhead and i had to hurry and catch the LAST s66 and it left 655pm

 

But my point is the s58 should arrive riverhead more earlier than the s62 since it goes straight line and the distance between riverhead and Hauppauge and east Northport is almost the same distance but the s62goes up to port Jefferson and back down while the s58 goes rect

 

Also that s58 bus after artist lake it turn off the lights of the unit. ..only 6 passengers were onboard that bus (incl. Myself) and seeing a beautuful scenery of rural camps made me feel like i was in my homeland. But still in the brink of getting stranded...

 

I say the motive for the s58 long journey might be the coram plaza rest

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Traffic is diffrent for one. For most of the route the S62 travels on the multi lane NYS 347, which while it gets back up doesn't get as bacd. The S58 travels on NYS 25 which is a one lane (in either directions) for the most part and gets very congested.

Also for it's whole history the S62 has gone from Riverhead to Port Jefferson and then extended to Hauppauge at some point. The S58 use to only got from East Northport to Middle Island until around 2000 when they extended the route to Riverhead because of overcrowding on the S62 because of all the people who transfered on at Smith Haven Mall to go to Riverhead as before 2000 the S62 was the only bus that went from Smith Haven Mall to Riverhead and the only bus from the West part of the county that sent stright to Riverhead. The other way to get to Riverhead from the western part of the county was to go to Patchouge and get the S66 and transfer to the S90 which was worse since the S90 only has one bus.  

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Tell me about it the S90 is the worst. ..one bus every two hours. ..i remember the mta lirr maps descripted saying s66: center moriches and in the riverhead labeling only appeared the s62 and the s92 although it is the other way around since the s58 passes through the rr station by way of Osbourne avenue and the s62 goes directly to thr county ctr

 

Way back heading to riverhead was a killer. ..the s62 was the only escaping route connection transfers for another sct bus to a NICE bus (ex long island bus of the MTA)

 

But hey you know alot i remember you saying that the s58 only advanced to artist lake andthat proff can be accurate as the first and last runs begin or end at middle Island. ..also the s58 has a 50 series numbering in which these series goes from as west as south Huntington (by the s54 bus) and before 2000 to middle Island (by way of the s58 bus) nowadays the easternmost reach of a 50 series is riverhead by way of thr s58 bus

 

I never knew that the stretch port Jefferson Hauppauge is new Always thougut the s62. Went to Hauppauge since it is the only bus route connection for the county offices pole to pole one seat ride..and yeah after smith haven mall the s62 to Hauppauge is quite empty. ..i must say the most congested part of the s58 is between Smith Haven mall and coram plaza...also it is quite noticeable that coram marks the easternmost reaches of the new york urban area. ..after coram it is totally rural (same goes for after port Jefferson and center moriches)

 

And yes the nys 25 is one lane each direction that ive noticed is strange since the nys 27 is two lane each direction. ..i must not forget that the s58 detours out of nys 25 to enter the sccc in selden a time eater. ..

 

Many residents of Suffolk county know very well the runnings and scheduling of the sct buses very well and are quite calm...man being 6:47pm and reaching finally tanger outlets of riverhead made me realise i wasn't going to make the 650pm s66 bus but thankfully the s58 driver radioed the s66 bus ti not leave and wait. ..to finish it off that s66 bus left 655pm and reached patchogue at 805pm (5 minutes early from its schedule approach) since he went really fast

 

Extending the s66 to riverhead was the best thing sct made since of thr three escaping routes (s58 and the s62 are the other routes) this one is the most best option since it arrives on time 99%

 

Thanks for the info

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I'm not sure when the S62 got the Hauppauge routing. It isn't new, new. It's been around for years. I had meant new as in since a majority of the routes have kept their routing since before the 1980/1981 take over of the bus system, that the S62 had it's Hauppauge added on. It's possible it was added then. BEFORE Suffolk County took over what is now the S62 use to run from Port Jefferson Station to Riverhead and was called C-2 (For Coram Bus Service route 2) 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Suggested SCT changes for 2016 (by Pinepower):

 

Consolidating the 3a, 3b, and the 3c??

 

I have my critiques about him as a person, but his ideas are usually sound.... The ones presented in his Nassau bus installment (video) I felt were spot on.... This suffolk installment though, leaves me with question marks.....

 

Honestly, I laughed when he mentioned one spur of the 3c being walkable to the other; it's not even a mile, this & that..... The stupid thing about is - You cannot directly walk east from the Cohalan courts area to the Connetquot spur! While he's right that the Connetquot spur gets basically no ridership, giving walkability as a(nother) reason to axe it is just... false.... And what is this about not having to serve LIRR Central Islip? The hell it doesn't! Apparently he doesn't know that college kids get off at that station to take the 3C b/w the RR & the courts..... Never mind that he refers to Industrial Happauge (while illustrating his idea on an edited SCT mp, mind you) as "this whole county office area" :lol:

 

I get what he's trying to do & I don't agree with it at all...

He keeps the 3a notation... What his route does is as follows:

- From its terminal in Hauppauge, it runs the 3a routing to LIRR Brentwood

- From LIRR Brentwood, it runs the 3d/45 routing to Carleton av (avoiding the LIRR Central Islip stop a few yards east, which the actual 3c serves)....

- From Carleton av/county rd. 100 (Suffolk av) due south, it runs the 3c routing to the Cohalan courts...

- From the Cohalan courts, his route, due south, would get back onto Carleton av (since his route wouldn't end at the courts), to run down to 27a (Montauk Hwy)...

- From montauk hwy/carleton av, it would run to Islip av, to eventually terminate at LIRR Islip

 

virtually no one is going to ride from the courts to 27a at LIRR Islip.... In the suburbs, generally speaking, bus transfers are done/encouraged at major xfer points.... Good luck getting riders to xfer to the s40/42 down in Islip; b/c on the 3c, those riders tend to ride out well west of LIRR Islip......

 

It seems as if he wants to kill off the 3a & 3b south of the main line (LIRR) because he sees the s41 & s45 are close by.... That line of thinking actually deters ridership; kill off the routes that directly serve residential corridors & keep the ones that mainly serve commercial corridors....

 

The 3a & the 3b I'd leave alone, their purposes are the same as the 2a/2b (which he opts to keep btw)... It's the 3c I would actually split into two separate routes, which I've posted on here before... Map link HERE... The 3c's potential should be expanded, not bastardized into two other routes that have little to nothing to do with it....

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If I remember correctly that 2009 Study that Suffolk had done suggested having the 3C extended to Hauppauge. 

Actually the 3A and 3B could be turned into one big loop. I mean both it's end points are the same, just when in Bay Shore one ends at the South Shore Mall and the other ends at a Shopping Center or something. So having a bus or two running counter clockwise and one or two going counter clockwise wouldn't be bad. Though that probably wouldn't save money, unless it one bus each way. 

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If I remember correctly that 2009 Study that Suffolk had done suggested having the 3C extended to Hauppauge. 

 

Actually the 3A and 3B could be turned into one big loop. I mean both it's end points are the same, just when in Bay Shore one ends at the South Shore Mall and the other ends at a Shopping Center or something. So having a bus or two running counter clockwise and one or two going counter clockwise wouldn't be bad. Though that probably wouldn't save money, unless it one bus each way. 

You're pretty much the only person who's responses I look forward to when talking about Suffolk County/SCT....

 

That said, Mr. Pinepower's not proposing a loop though... He's proposing outright cutting the 3a/3b south of Suffolk av, cutting the 3b only portion/segment north of Suffolk av... To sum it up, he's basically having the 3a run east along Suffolk av to do the 3c Carleton av spur - with an extension to LIRR Islip (of all places) afterwards....

 

A loop would make more sense than drastically cutting service the way he's proposing...

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If I remember correctly that 2009 Study that Suffolk had done suggested having the 3C extended to Hauppauge. 

 

Actually the 3A and 3B could be turned into one big loop. I mean both it's end points are the same, just when in Bay Shore one ends at the South Shore Mall and the other ends at a Shopping Center or something. So having a bus or two running counter clockwise and one or two going counter clockwise wouldn't be bad. Though that probably wouldn't save money, unless it one bus each way. 

 

If this is the same study I'm thinking of, there were pretty interesting proposals and some I was pretty excited about seeing.

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 To sum it up, he's basically having the 3a run east along Suffolk av to do the 3c Carleton av spur - with an extension to LIRR Islip (of all places) afterwards....

 

 

I'm surprised the 2009 study didn't suggest doing that. (Probably leaving off the Islip RR) 

 

That does sound intresting, though I have to question what about the people who used the other part of the 3C. Granted I don't know the ridership of the route now, I know back 15 or so years ago there were a few people who use to ride it. My family used it a few times to go to the South Shore Mall and once after going to King Kullens after they relocated their CI store, when we lived in CI.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Honestly, I laughed when he mentioned one spur of the 3c being walkable to the other; it's not even a mile, this & that..... The stupid thing about is - You cannot directly walk east from the Cohalan courts area to the Connetquot spur! While he's right that the Connetquot spur gets basically no ridership, giving walkability as a(nother) reason to axe it is just... false....

 

That same logic actually applies to the 3A vs. S41 and 3B vs. S45. Unless you live near Second Avenue or Spur Drive North, you can't walk from Broadway directly to Brentwood Road (and even at those two points, it's still a mile). Those people would literally be stranded. On a recent fantrip, I took the 3A over to Brentwood (which picked up around 10 people at the station), and then I watched the last 3B of the night pull in, and about 15 people got on (I got on the S27 behind it, which actually emptied out surprisingly, and I was the only one on the bus until we got to Tanger)

 

In any case, what's the news about SCT cutting service? I know NICE is cutting some routes, but I haven't seen any news about the SCT budget shortage.

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In any case, what's the news about SCT cutting service? I know NICE is cutting some routes, but I haven't seen any news about the SCT budget shortage.

 

There wasn't enough State Funding which caused a 10 Million short fall in the Transit budget. They worked it last I heard to 6 Million in cuts to Fixed Route and 4 million in SCAT cuts. Last I heard they scrapped the cuts, at least to full routes, for now and are making changes to equipment use on routes with low ridership. They have started to phase in use of SCAT buses for low ridership routes instead of Fix Route Buses.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just had a look at the updated roster, and didn't notice before, but did a double-take at all the high-floors in service.  Especially everything 2005 and forward.  Were those buses bought new or were they already used?  SMART stayed with Gilligs, but went all low-floor starting with the 2001 purchases (and retiring the old Phantoms and TMCs from the 90s).  Those Phantoms, and even the Orions, are tough buses, but a bit strange once low-floors were becoming the choice of agencies across the country, past about 2002 or so.  Lifts are always a huge maintenance problem, so I'd have thought a small agency like Suffolk would've been more apt to changeover -- just for the cost savings and injury claims reduction alone -- over keeping high-floors going.

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Just had a look at the updated roster, and didn't notice before, but did a double-take at all the high-floors in service.  Especially everything 2005 and forward.  Were those buses bought new or were they already used?  SMART stayed with Gilligs, but went all low-floor starting with the 2001 purchases (and retiring the old Phantoms and TMCs from the 90s).  Those Phantoms, and even the Orions, are tough buses, but a bit strange once low-floors were becoming the choice of agencies across the country, past about 2002 or so.  Lifts are always a huge maintenance problem, so I'd have thought a small agency like Suffolk would've been more apt to changeover -- just for the cost savings and injury claims reduction alone -- over keeping high-floors going.

All the buses were brought new, except the 2008 Gillig Hybrids they came as part of some state program to test hybrid buses or something like that. The only buses that Suffolk ever brought used was back when the County created the system. Suffolk doesn't have the money to replace all the high floors at once. However the Orion V and the 2000 Gilligs are of age and due for retirement. The 2005 are coming of age in two years and will most likely will be retired. 

 

Suffolk didn't have money to outright scrap the high floors when they brought low floors. The only reason they brought that many Orion VII's was because former United States Representative Tim Bishop got federal money to help out, other wise the order would have been for 55 buses.

 

Suffolk brought from Gillig alot, at times making up nearly all of it's fleet and at other about half.

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  • 6 months later...

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/suffolk-county-may-cut-9-bus-routes-in-october-officials-say-1.12132709

 

Wait... What rationale is being used to keep routes like the S56, S68, & S76 around longer than/over the... S71???

 

Well, all I have to say about this for now is that the S66 is going to resemble S92 level crowding....

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http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/suffolk-county-may-cut-9-bus-routes-in-october-officials-say-1.12132709

 

Wait... What rationale is being used to keep routes like the S56, S68, & S76 around longer than/over the... S71???

 

Well, all I have to say about this for now is that the S66 is going to resemble S92 level crowding....

The newsday website says 9 routes, the sct website says 8, I counted 10 routes.

 

Interesting how the Suffolk Clipper was never considered. It doesn't look like a route that would garner much ridership (although I could be wrong).

 

I would have kept the 7D, the S71, 10A, and possibly the S90 as coverage routes. The rest I guess are justified more or less. Other routes which should have been considered are the S31, 7B (North Bellport segment only; all buses would run to Medford Plaza, since the S68 already runs in that area), 3A, and maybe the 6B. 

Edited by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL
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http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/suffolk-county-may-cut-9-bus-routes-in-october-officials-say-1.12132709

 

Wait... What rationale is being used to keep routes like the S56, S68, & S76 around longer than/over the... S71???

 

Well, all I have to say about this for now is that the S66 is going to resemble S92 level crowding....

 

 

The S66 isn't going to get more crowded. Barely anyone rides the 7D/E. Half the times I've seen the 7D it had nobody on it.

 

It said how they came up with what routes to cut in the article, they based it on how much could be saved.

 

Obviously the S71 wasn't bring in enough money to cover the operation. Not to mention if the Executive's BRT route is ever created the S71 would be obsolete since the BRT route would serve SCCC-SELDEN and SUNY Stony Brook.

 

The newsday website says 9 routes, the sct website says 8, I counted 10 routes.

 

 

It's 10 routes when you count the 7D and E and the 10 D and E as the individual routes that they are but it was written out its eight routes. Don't know who wrote it out the way they did.

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The newsday website says 9 routes, the sct website says 8, I counted 10 routes.

 

Interesting how the Suffolk Clipper was never considered. It doesn't look like a route that would garner much ridership (although I could be wrong).

 

I would have kept the 7D, the S71, 10A, and possibly the S90 as coverage routes. The rest I guess are justified more or less. Other routes which should have been considered are the S31, 7B (North Bellport segment only; all buses would run to Medford Plaza, since the S68 already runs in that area), 3A, and maybe the 6B. 

I would have kept the S71 & restructured the S90.... The rest of the routes listed I don't have a problem with parting ways with.

 

As for other routes that could've perhaps gone (instead of some of the ones Suffolk's proposing), I can agree, with the exception of the 6B....

 

 The S66 isn't going to get more crowded. Barely anyone rides the 7D/E. Half the times I've seen the 7D it had nobody on it.

 

It said how they came up with what routes to cut in the article, they based it on how much could be saved.

 

Obviously the S71 wasn't bring in enough money to cover the operation. Not to mention if the Executive's BRT route is ever created the S71 would be obsolete since the BRT route would serve SCCC-SELDEN and SUNY Stony Brook.

Simply don't agree that it won't.... The comment wasn't predicated on the 7D/E cut either (which I already know barely anyone utilizes)....

People's travel patterns are going to (have to) change... I foresee more Mastic-Shirley to Patchogue travel & folks xferring to 61's or 63's....

 

As for your 2nd statement, Yeah it's obviously about money, money, money - but the point was, they could have gotten rid of other under-performing routes (plural), before the S71 (singular)...

 

Don't know what BRT route you're talking about, so I'm not going to comment on that.....

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I would have kept the S71 & restructured the S90.... The rest of the routes listed I don't have a problem with parting ways with.

 

As for other routes that could've perhaps gone (instead of some of the ones Suffolk's proposing), I can agree, with the exception of the 6B....

 

 

Simply don't agree that it won't.... The comment wasn't predicated on the 7D/E cut either (which I already know barely anyone utilizes)....

People's travel patterns are going to (have to) change... I foresee more Mastic-Shirley to Patchogue travel & folks xferring to 61's or 63's....

 

As for your 2nd statement, Yeah it's obviously about money, money, money - but the point was, they could have gotten rid of other under-performing routes (plural), before the S71 (singular)...

 

Don't know what BRT route you're talking about, so I'm not going to comment on that.....

I don't think the S71 of S90 carried that much per run to drastically effect the S66 as you believe. I mean if the total number of people effected on all the routes listed is 195 it kinda shows that all the routes don't carry well.

 

Can't keep a route that you can't afford.

 

The Proposed BRT route is the only one of three proposed by County Executive Bellone that he is still actively pursuing. It's suppose to make a trip going from South Shore to North Shore. This route is suppose to go from Patchouge to SCCC-SELDEN then SUNY Stony Brook via Nicholls Road. He's spent thousands if not possibly a million studying the possibility.

 

The S76 was spare probably because thete was no savings in cutting it and it's purpose is purely in giving riders along the Port Jefferson Plaza and East Setauket riders of the S60 a 30 minute wait for a bus. Unlike the other routes whose purpose is to bring people from terminus to another or some where along the route.

Edited by mac5689
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