news NYPD’s stop-and-frisk use violated rights: ruling

[GojiMet86]

You need to start using your brain more. If you can't connect the dots...

 

"They" are the ones who are ruining everything for everyone else. The vast majoirty of crimes are by people of the same ethnic group as the victim. Blacks are more likley to victimize other blacks, latinos other latinos and so on.

 

Not my fault I can't make sense of your nonsensical contradictions.

 

Would have been better for you if you had mentioned that earlier.

[realizm]

Arabia is still a place. Ever hear of the Arabian Peninsula? Middle eastern is too broad a category. That drags other ethnic groups into fray, groups who may or may not have anything to do with the subject at hand. There is no body politic called "Long Island" and yet how many people her consider themselves Long Islanders? I'm not telling you to consider yourself anything, there you go putting words in my mouth again. All I'm saying is that by the general definition of the word Arab, you're not one. Be about as reasonable as me taking offense to something said about Scotland when I'm Irish.

Where did I say that I was stating something about Scotland when you are Irish? Can you pull up that statement for me in this thread? There's the search field on the top of this page. Search hard because you are lying, period.

 

The Arabian Penisula is a geographic location. Exactly. Does it define all persons of MiddleEastern people as a whole? I don't think so. Again the proper term is Middle-Eastern. The proper political term according to the US Department of State in terns of geographic location is Western Asia. Get your facts straight.

 

See what you are saying to me? That is akin to calling all Asians Orientals. BTW who are you to have authority to teach me about my own heritage? It's bad enough already that you are already hurling comments that reaks of prejudiced and stereotypical thinking, derailing the thread.

 

 

Not my fault I can't make sense of your nonsensical contradictions.

 

Would have been better for you if you had mentioned that earlier.

Know what let's just ignore him, he's obviously throwing out flamebait since page 1 apparently he can't hold a discussion down where it comes to race relations. Nor does he have the informational background to understand the dynamics legalistically and socioeconomically regarding this issue presented in the OP.

[Kamen Rider]

Where did I say that I was stating something about Scotland when you are Irish? Can you pull up that statement for me in this thread? There's the search field on the top of this page. Search hard because you are lying, period.

 

Arabian Penisula is a geographic location. Exactly. Does it define all persons of MiddleEastern people as a whole? I don't think so. Again the proper term is Middle-Eastern. The proper political term according to the US Department of State in terns of geographic location is Western Asia. Get your facts straight.

 

See what you are saying to me? That is akin to calling all Asians Orientals. BTW who are you to have authority to teach me about my own heritage?

 

I was making a compairison. You seemed to take offense to my statements about arabs. I was saying that by the general definition of the word arab, you taking offense would be equal to me taking offense to something about socttish people.

 

Was I talking about middle easterners as a whole? No I wasn't. I was talking about a SPECIFIC subgroup of a subgroup of the whole. Western asian down to middle eastern and then down to arab.

 

"See what you are saying to me? That is akin to calling all Asians Orientals."

 

No, it's not what I'm saying. You're off on some weird tanget there that has nothing to do with the subject.  You seem to be missunderstanding everything I'm saying. If that is the message you are getting, I'm sorry. But that is not what I mean. Not all.

 

And it's not that I'm lecturing you on your background, but it seems to me you're not exactly up to par with what your background entails. Being from Iran doesn't make you an arab, unless you are using the ignorant, racist version; which I am not using.  

[realizm]

Being from Iran doesn't make you an arab, unless you are using the ignorant, racist version; which I am not using.

 

Enough. Seriously. How are you to imply that, when I am part Asian with an Iranian heritage? Despicable. And again comments such as this for 3 pages now:

 

Lets look at it this way. I'm a middle class, educated white male. Speaking only statistically, what is the likelihood I would be walking around with an illegal gun ready to pop someone? It's slim to none. What's the probibility for a gang banging thug from the projects to have an illegal gun? Hell of a lot higher, isn't.

 

By the logic this judge used, when cops are out hunting a rapist, women should be brought in for questioning two, out of "equality" and "equal rights."

 

Implying that all blacks are criminals (add: And rapists) .....

 

Far too many terrorist are arabs. Far too many men are rapist and far too many people of minorirty backgrounds are commiting the kinds of violent crime S&F is ment to detir.

 

Implying that all people of middle-eastern decent are terrorists.....

 

See why you are getting negative reactions? Pretty much all of your points are based on your thinking reflected here. You have issues with minorities. It's pretty evident in your thoughts reflected in your posts. Keep in mind I'm actually trying to be civil about it.

 

Know what? Take this to PMs if you like, then we can discuss this.

[Kamen Rider]

WAIT HOLD IT STOP RIGHT THERE!

 

what did I say next?

 

Was is

 

" Personaly I don't like that as much as the next guy. I want to live in a world where stop and frisk would never have been nessiasry."

 

Yes, I think it was.

 

If your going to quote me, do it in context...

 

I don't like the fact people are hurting each other. And all you've been doing is jump down my throat on something you didn't even understand.

 

As to the first part. I was not accusing you of anything. You've been taking me WAY to literal tonight...

[realizm]

WAIT HOLD IT STOP RIGHT THERE!

 

what did I say next?

 

Was is

 

" Personaly I don't like that as much as the next guy. I want to live in a world where stop and frisk would never have been nessiasry."

 

Yes, I think it was.

 

If your going to quote me, do it in context...

 

I don't like the fact people are hurting each other. And all you've been doing is jump down my throat on something you didn't even understand.

 

As to the first part. I was not accusing you of anything. You've been taking me WAY to literal tonight...

 

I said take it to PM's. NOW.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Can't say I didn't have a feeling this was gonna go downhill somehow...

[DJ MC]

Can't say I didn't have a feeling this was gonna go downhill somehow...

 

 

I gave it until the second page before that happened. 

[Kamen Rider]

I'm sharing this, and then letting it go.

 

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/2012_year_end_enforcement_report.pdf

[Turbo19]

this is the problem with people these days. they read too much into things.

 

Turbo, I'm going to teach you a new word. It's called an "Example". It means one item held up for comparison purposes. Did I say everyone who lived in the projects was a gang banging thug? No I didn't, but you went and assumed that. Did I say that all gang banging thugs lived in the projects. No I didn't, again you're just puting words in my mouth and there is almost nothing that pisses me off more than that.

 

Are there gang banging thugs? Yes.

 

Are there gang banging thugs who live in projects? Yes.

 

Are there gang banging thugs who live in projects who own an illegal weapon? Yes.

 

Are there gang banging thugs who live in projects who own an illegal weapon who have used it or inted to use it to commit a violent crime? Yes.

 

Am I a gang banging thug? No.

 

Am I a gang banging thug who lives in a project? No.

 

Am I a gang banging thug who lives in a project and owns an illegal weapon? No.

 

Am I a gang banging thug who lives in a project and owns an illegal weapon and have used it or intend to use it to commite a violent crime? No.

 

 

 

As for realizm, who seems to be the real racist here, did I ever use the word "Black"? or any other words to signify any racial or ethnical words?  The only person who's enthicity I mentioned was myself, and that was simply for your benifit.

 

Last time I checked, there were non blacks males who fall under the crimustances I listed above. There are female gang members. Ever hear of MS 113? Or how about The Latin Kings? I would list others but to be brutaily honest I've never kept up with small time gang names and who joins what. 

 

 

If it is wrong that a person can be signled out for having commited a crime because of one defining charactoristic, then isn't the asumption that a rapist on the prowl is a male therefor sexist?  Not really, becuase by and large, the vast majority of rapists are male.

 

Are all males rapists? Of Coruse not.

 

Are all black males criminals? Of course not.

 

Are all Arabs terrorists? Of Course not as well.

 

BUT

 

like I said several months ago. Far too many terrorist are arabs. Far too many men are rapist and far too many people of minorirty backgrounds are commiting the kinds of violent crime S&F is ment to detir. Personaly I don't like that as much as the next guy. I want to live in a world where stop and frisk would never have been nessiasry. But the ones who are causing it to be nessisary are amoung those who are fighting it. They are balming the cops, when they should be blaming those around them who are shooting, stabing and robbing.

Wait a minute, people read too much into things?

 

Get out of here with that crap. You insinuated that residents of public housing were more likely to be thugs, and still continue to do so in your breakdown, where you once again make it a point that you do not reside in a public housing project. And also, once again you insinuate that thugs from projects own weapons, which itself equates that people residing in projects carry weapons.

 

If you find any of this to be true, perhaps you're the narrow minded one, reading too much into stereotypes.

 

And also, I know you aren't addressing me, but I'll give my take on your next part.

 

If anything you mentioned your ethnicity only to set a stage for hierarchy amongst the minorities and thus you ever so nicely refer to. And once again, you bring minority gangs, trying to prove a point. The Latin Kings, Mara Salvatrucha Trece. I could easily refute that point and state the many Irish gangs from the northeast, mainly Boston. Hurts coming from the otherside, doesn't it?

 

And of course, you finish off with your self patronizing propaganda, typical.

 

 

So now you are implying that all Arabs are terrorists. And because I called you out on this as well as the blanket statement on blacks you call me a racist here, when you are the one making the racial microaggressive statements.

 

You really don't need to explain yourself further.

It's there loud and clear. No explanation needed, or wanted quite personally.

 

 

You know that a majority of people that live in projects are minorities. You know that "thugs" from the projects probably won't be white. Don't be playing stupid, Kamen.

Yes, he's using base statistics and simply using them to his advantage to otherwise talk crap about a few individuals.

 

 

Well, relizim, you made me out to be a racist when I'm nothing of the sort. Seems to me that is only to hide your own issues or preducices.

 

I'm not playing stupid. I'm not playing racist. What I am playing, however, are statisitics. Numbers. Information. Anyone here ever watch "Person of Intrest?" The "Machine" watches peoples habits and behaviors. I'm doing roughly the same thing.  

 

There is a simple fact here that no one wants to accept...

 

 

 

That I'm right.

 

 

No, we can't have that can we. We'll make it look like he's saying it because they are black or becuase they a poor or whatever. That'll get him to shut up. We can't have facts in our converstations...

 

 

I treat people as true equals. I judge them by thier actions, not by what they look like. I don't assume a guy walking twords me with braided hair wearing a wife beater is going to attack me anymore than anyone else. The simple fact of the matter is that, speaking on a non emotional, factual, statistical basis, a person who fits that description is more likely to do exactly that, jump some one, anyone. But not becuase he's black or hispanic or whatever. that's not what makes a person violent.

 

There were 17 shootings in a roughly 6 hour period, from Midnight to sunrise on Sunday. They took place in low income, minority populated areas.

 

If they would just stop trying to kill each other, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm going to skip your fallacious lies and focus on one statement. Who's they? Also, why would you use they? The word they is vauge by nature, and you know that.

 

Could it be you refuse to specifically mention the group you're attacking? If so why? Is it because you know people will rightfully take issue? It's safe to assume yes.

 

This is great. I am sick of this Stop and Frisk program because cops keep stopping people without any logical reason. The people stopped by this is during the time they aren't doing nothing and it grinds my stomach that most of the people stopped are blacks and latinos. Being a latino myself, this concerns me a lot. Something has to be done because this program was going to cause a lot of chaos since day 1.

Completely agreed. This was obviously motivated by stereotyping to a great degree. Quite honestly seeing said stereotyping being recognized in a court of law brings me hope that this practice will be reformed or stopped all together.

 

 

Well, real, since you keep putting words in my mouth, which I said gets me pissed off to no end, it seems fair game.

 

The you and goji can't seem to read anyway. I keep saying things and you go off about the exact friggen opposite of what I've just said.

 

 

Nor do you seem to know anything about ethnicy. If you're Irianian, then you're not arab. Arabs come from Arabia.

 

 

I said, "Not all arabs are terrorists" what is the issue that too many terrorists are arab.

Another blanket statement I see. You leave me shaking my head, for lack of a better description.

 

Of course I say the opposite, 'cause the things you say are contradictory.

 

You clearly wrote:

 

 

But then you went on to say that:

 

 

Who are "they"? 

 

You clearly pointed out that the crimes happened in low income, minority areas. And then you had the nerve to say if only "they would just stop trying to kill each other". You wrote in the first part that being black or latino doesn't make one violent. But then you contradicted yourself in saying "they". Again, who are you referring to when you say "they"? Who's shooting the other? The minority?

As I pointed out, he doesn't want to be more detailed, likely because he's wrong.

 

 

Really I am not enjoying this conversation, neither are many of the members here so far, because of these posted statements. That's what is throwing off this discussion. If someone disagrees with the stop and frisk policy it's one thing but to make stereotypical references meant to offend (and with inaccuracies on top of that) is another story. I started the original thread on March 18 2013 when this class action lawsuit was taken up in Supreme Court. There was some who had opposing viewpoints on the stop and frisk issue. But no racist stereotypical references were hurled all over the thread. Now it is here because of one member.

Right on.

 

 

Some are just that desperate to prove a point around here. 

A very stereotypical, fallacious and inaccurate point I must add.

 

 

Welcome to the internet.

Indeed...

 

I could continue, but I won't. Looking forward to the replies here.

[Kamen Rider]

Turbo, let me ask you two things.

 

Number 1, have you ever set foot in a New York City Housing Authoirty Building complex?

 

and Number Two. did you bother to read ANYTHING in my last post. That PDF is might informing.

 

 

If the answer to #1 is no, then you really need to rethink your arguments. For full discolure, my father grew up in a project. It was the only place my grandparents could aford, my paternal grandfather was legally blind and couldn't find much work. To describe them as unsafe enviroments is the understatement of the year.

 

As for the second thing;

 

Everything I have said in the past few hours is based on the cold hard facts of crime data. I take no pleasure in having to say any of this.

 

Non hispanic blacks make up 22.8%, and hispanics of any background 28.8% of the population of New York City, a total of 51.8%  buit commit the majoirty of it's crimes. And in nearly all of those crimes, other people of minorities are the victims.

 

In all of 2012, 405 people were murdered in New York City. Of those 60%, 243 people, 3 out of evey 5, were black non-hispanic. Another 26% were Hispanic. 85% of all people killed in the city last year were black or hispanic. And who killed them? Other blacks and hispanics.

 

Of the people shot in general, 1624, 74.1% were black, and 22.2% were hispanic. Shooters, of which there were 678; 78.2% Black, 18.9% hispanic.97.1% of people who shot someone in the city last year were ether black or hispanic.

 

Of all the catigories listed, the one with the highest non-black and non-hispanic percentage is misdeminor criminal mischif, 17% of people arrested for that were white, 3.2% were asian. So factoring the only other option being native american (which was 0%), that slill leaves 79.7%.

[Turbo19]

Turbo, let me ask you two things.

 

Number 1, have you ever set foot in a New York City Housing Authoirty Building complex?

 

and Number Two. did you bother to read ANYTHING in my last post. That PDF is might informing.

 

 

If the answer to #1 is no, then you really need to rethink your arguments. For full discolure, my father grew up in a project. It was the only place my grandparents could aford, my paternal grandfather was legally blind and couldn't find much work. To describe them as unsafe enviroments is the understatement of the year.

Though I've never resided in a housing project, I did know a few people out at NYCHA's Mariner's Harbor. Arguably it's one of the more secluded and newer developments, but it's not all that bad. Unfortunate your grandparents had a horrible experience, but time have changed for the most part.

 

 

As for the second thing;

 

Everything I have said in the past few hours is based on the cold hard facts of crime data. I take no pleasure in having to say any of this.

 

Non hispanic blacks make up 22.8%, and hispanics of any background 28.8% of the population of New York City, a total of 51.8%  buit commit the majoirty of it's crimes. And in nearly all of those crimes, other people of minorities are the victims.

 

In all of 2012, 405 people were murdered in New York City. Of those 60%, 243 people, 3 out of evey 5, were black non-hispanic. Another 26% were Hispanic. 85% of all people killed in the city last year were black or hispanic. And who killed them? Other blacks and hispanics.

 

Of the people shot in general, 1624, 74.1% were black, and 22.2% were hispanic. Shooters, of which there were 678; 78.2% Black, 18.9% hispanic.97.1% of people who shot someone in the city last year were ether black or hispanic.

 

Of all the catigories listed, the one with the highest non-black and non-hispanic percentage is misdeminor criminal mischif, 17% of people arrested for that were white, 3.2% were asian. So factoring the only other option being native american (which was 0%), that slill leaves 79.7%.

Regardless if you were going by statistics you have already engaged in racial epithets and propaganda. No way out of it now.

[realizm]

As for the second thing;

 

Everything I have said in the past few hours is based on the cold hard facts of crime data. I take no pleasure in having to say any of this.

 

Non hispanic blacks make up 22.8%, and hispanics of any background 28.8% of the population of New York City, a total of 51.8%  buit commit the majoirty of it's crimes. And in nearly all of those crimes, other people of minorities are the victims.

 

In all of 2012, 405 people were murdered in New York City. Of those 60%, 243 people, 3 out of evey 5, were black non-hispanic. Another 26% were Hispanic. 85% of all people killed in the city last year were black or hispanic. And who killed them? Other blacks and hispanics.

 

Of the people shot in general, 1624, 74.1% were black, and 22.2% were hispanic. Shooters, of which there were 678; 78.2% Black, 18.9% hispanic.97.1% of people who shot someone in the city last year were ether black or hispanic.

 

Of all the catigories listed, the one with the highest non-black and non-hispanic percentage is misdeminor criminal mischif, 17% of people arrested for that were white, 3.2% were asian. So factoring the only other option being native american (which was 0%), that slill leaves 79.7%.

 

Let me show you how corrupted this system is. 

 

1) Marijuana arrests accounts for over one half of all drug arrests in the entire US. Bewteen 2001 and 2010, 8.2 million marijuana arrests were made, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Federal arrest data shows a significant trend: racial bias. Despite the fact that usage rates are pretty much equal between blacks and whites, blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana. 

 

Care to explain?

 

2) In 2012 alone, In 2012, New Yorkers were stopped by the NYPD  532,911 times. 473,644 were totally innocent or approximately 89 percent. 284,229 were black or 55%. 165,140 were Latino or 32%. That means that 87 % of all minorities stopped and frisked were innocent. 

 

Explain that one to me.

 

3) In an episode of the The Young Turks it was revealed that Commissioner Ray Kelly initiated the stop and frisk policy to target specific ethnic groups and instill FEAR into minorities to establish control, so as to have them think that  every time they leave their homes they may be stopped by police, according to statements from New York state senator Eric Adams. Video clip below:

 

 

 

I'll be more than happy to discuss that one with you if you need a talking point.

 

Take your time and muse on it.

 

And as a recap for the lurkers joining in this discussion:

 

Lets look at it this way. I'm a middle class, educated white male. Speaking only statistically, what is the likelihood I would be walking around with an illegal gun ready to pop someone? It's slim to none. What's the probibility for a gang banging thug from the projects to have an illegal gun? Hell of a lot higher, isn't.

 

By the logic this judge used, when cops are out hunting a rapist, women should be brought in for questioning two, out of "equality" and "equal rights."

 

Implying that blacks are all criminals and rapists. His words.

 

 

like I said several months ago. Far too many terrorist are arabs. Far too many men are rapist and far too many people of minorirty backgrounds are commiting the kinds of violent crime S&F is ment to detir. 

 

Implying that all persons of middleeastern descent are terrorists. Hey I didn't say it.

[Kamen Rider]

For the umpteenth time, what you seem to be reading is not what I'm saying. I'm not implying anything. You are the one making "Arab" into "Middle Eastern", not me. I've never said that or implied that all Arabs are terrorist, what I am saying is they make up a way too large amount of international terrorism. You are reading things that are not there and you keep repeating it. Did I say "All black men were rapists?" No, I said most rapists are men, no defining characteristics mentioned.

 

You are cititing arrest records for pot use. Last time I checked, drug use is not a violent crime in and of itself. I have not been talking about arrest rates for non-violent crimes, my discussion points have been solely about the commission rates of violent, physical crimes.

 

The 89% have the other 11% to thank for thier problems. Maybe if people would settle thier problems with a game of chess instead of beating each other to a pulp, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Let me ask you this. How should the shootings be stopped then? The beatings? The thefts? How? Do you expect people to just give it up? What would you do about it? How would you stop the violence?

[Turbo19]

For the umpteenth time, what you seem to be reading is not what I'm saying. I'm not implying anything. You are the one making "Arab" into "Middle Eastern", not me. I've never said that or implied that all Arabs are terrorist, what I am saying is they make up a way too large amount of international terrorism. You are reading things that are not there and you keep repeating it. Did I say "All black men were rapists?" No, I said most rapists are men, no defining characteristics mentioned.

 

You are cititing arrest records for pot use. Last time I checked, drug use is not a violent crime in and of itself. I have not been talking about arrest rates for non-violent crimes, my discussion points have been solely about the commission rates of violent, physical crimes.

 

The 89% have the other 11% to thank for thier problems. Maybe if people would settle thier problems with a game of chess instead of beating each other to a pulp, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Let me ask you this. How should the shootings be stopped then? The beatings? The thefts? How? Do you expect people to just give it up? What would you do about it? How would you stop the violence?

I'm going to tell you this much. If you can't learn to tolerate, then perhaps it would be best if you didn't say anything. The conversation regarding Blacks and Arabs shouldn't have even escalated from the beginning.

 

If you look, the stats actually indicate total arrests, of which roughly around 90% of arrest were drug charges alone, leading me to my next point.

 

Minorities have no one to blame but the NYPD for acting on such discrimination. If nearly 90% were in fact innocent that speaks volume how ineffective this practice is, and how it should be ceased.

 

Lastly, shooting, beatings, theft, etc. are not rampant in NYC, at least not in this point in time. Unless you managed to hide under a box for the last 35 years you would see how civil this city is for it's size.

[Urbanfortitude]

It's funny.  I didn't even know this program existed till I started reading about it online a week ago.  I've never been stopped and frisked before.  I've had my bag checked at turnstiles by cops before but that's a basketball of a different color me thinks.  

[Kamen Rider]

Learn to be tolerant? I'm not the one spreading false information about a person because I don't agree with what they're saying.

 

I have not used ONE derogatory word, but you see fit to accuse me of doing so.

[realizm]

For the umpteenth time, what you seem to be reading is not what I'm saying. I'm not implying anything.

 

You well know what you said. What is this a game of cat and mouse? Again, the replay:

 

like I said several months ago. Far too many terrorist are arabs. Far too many men are rapist and far too many people of minorirty backgrounds are commiting the kinds of violent crime S&F is ment to detir.

Lets look at it this way. I'm a middle class, educated white male. Speaking only statistically, what is the likelihood I would be walking around with an illegal gun ready to pop someone? It's slim to none. What's the probibility for a gang banging thug from the projects to have an illegal gun? Hell of a lot higher, isn't.

 

By the logic this judge used, when cops are out hunting a rapist, women should be brought in for questioning two, out of "equality" and "equal rights."

 

 

You are still on this stereotype regarding persons of Middle-Eastern descent. You can't take cold facts. You presented one flawed NYPD crime statistics document knowing that the NYPD is known to hide statistics by NOT filing reports as a practice?  That's it, I'm putting this particular on this discussion to an end with finality.

 

The term Arab (I'll use the term Arab since you may not have a grasp yet on politically correct terms and I am not holding my breath waiting on you to get the point that we are not talking about the movie Arabian Nights) is usually attached to 'radical muslim extremist.' because of falsified hype from the American media, of which apparently you are heavily influenced by. You know that yet you wish to deny that for convenience.  So does that mean as you say, that all Arabs are terrorists? Lets break that down:

 

1) According to the Triangle Center of Terrorism and Homeland Security @ The University of North Carolina from official FBI Statistics posted on FBI.gov , of the 300 approximate American deaths from political violence and/or mass shootings since 9/11, only 33 murders have been committed by Muslim-Americans. Meanwhile over 180, 000 Americans in that same period died because of domestic terrorist plots and mass shootings of public areas such as SCHOOLS.

 

2) According to the same source also according to EUROPOL data only 1% of terrorist attacks in Europe are committed by those who adhere to the Islamic faith during the year 2011 alone.

 

 

You are cititing arrest records for pot use. Last time I checked, drug use is not a violent crime in and of itself. I have not been talking about arrest rates for non-violent crimes, my discussion points have been solely about the commission rates of violent, physical crimes.

 

What? This?

 

Let me show you how corrupted this system is.

 

1) Marijuana arrests accounts for over one half of all drug arrests in the entire US. Bewteen 2001 and 2010, 8.2 million marijuana arrests were made, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Federal arrest data shows a significant trend: racial bias. Despite the fact that usage rates are pretty much equal between blacks and whites, blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana.

 

Care to explain?

 

2) In 2012 alone, In 2012, New Yorkers were stopped by the NYPD 532,911 times. 473,644 were totally innocent or approximately 89 percent. 284,229 were black or 55%. 165,140 were Latino or 32%. That means that 87 % of all minorities stopped and frisked were innocent.

 

Explain that one to me.

 

What explains the trend then in overall high rates of stop and frisk searches on civilians of color, in general then if I may so ask? 87% of all minorities stopped and frisked being innocent of any crimes, violent or not? Stop dodging the issue and answer me.

 

Apparently just as you criticized GojiMet86 and Turbo16, who are Latino-Americans, telling them they cannot read you totally missed my point with source and citation because you refused to read it. Are we getting into stereotypes of Latino Americans as being uneducated now? Do you have the authority to even speak on the Latino experience by your barrage of mis-facts based on false assumptions and flawed statistics from a police commissioner known to distort information?

 

Did you even bother to listen to the video? What are you running from? The hard painful truth ?

 

3) In an episode of the The Young Turks it was revealed that Commissioner Ray Kelly initiated the stop and frisk policy to target specific ethnic groups and instill FEAR into minorities to establish control, so as to have them think that  every time they leave their homes they may be stopped by police, according to statements from New York state senator Eric Adams. Video clip below:

 

 

 

Please read these sources, all of them, then when you can come back with a solid response to refute the truth then get back to me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I get what you're saying, but the cops can't go around breaking the law and violating people's rights in the name of safety. You're forcing an unconstitutional search on someone without a warrant or consent, and it's wrong. And the problem with these random stops in general is that the cops keep stopping who are doing absolutely nothing suspicious, and even worse is that the people stopped are mostly people of color. For the record, I'm white, and I don't care what the skin color of the guy you're stopping is, you can't be stopping someone with no reasonable suspicion and illegally searching them. The fact that the NYPD is obviously racially profiling here makes it worse.

Oh please.  You're just saying that because you were stopped in the airport for taking photos.

 

So going by your logic all black men are criminals, gangbangers and rapists. All of them. Thanks I got the message loud and clear. What should be your solution to this so called perceived problem then? Override the US constitution and reinstate black apartheid?

 

I don't think racialism is a good way to combat crime according to this 'logic'.

 

You want to 'speak statistically' ? Over 86% of those stopped and frisked are Afro-American or Latino yet Afro Americans make up only 30.8 % of the population and Latinos only 27.5% of the population. Now if you may elaborate further on your point. I would love to hear it.

What's troubling to me is that Blacks make up the smallest population in the US yet they commit the most crime.  That's a fact that certainly leads to them being looked at more by police.  If it was truly a minority problem, then Asians would also have high levels of being Stopped and Frisked, but they don't.  Their levels are on par with the amount of crime that they commit.  Part of a cops' job is to study behavior patterns and patterns of crime to get profiles of people that would commit various crimes.  They do this with ALL people.  For example, it's known that most serial killers are White males, so they are profiled when those types of crimes occur.  Without profiling, you make the work of a cop very difficult.

[realizm]

Oh please.  You're just saying that because you were stopped in the airport for taking photos.

 

What's troubling to me is that Blacks make up the smallest NY population yet they commit the most crime.  That's a fact that certainly leads to them being looked at more by police.  If it was truly a minority problem, then Asians would also have high levels of being Stopped and Frisked, but they don't.  Their levels are on par with the amount of crime that they commit.  Part of a cops job is to study behavior patterns and patterns of crime to get profiles of people that would commit various crimes.  They do this with ALL people.  For example, it's known that most serial killers are White males so they are profiled when those types of crimes occur.  Without profiling, you make the work of a cop very difficult.

 

Ok that's something to think about. I would say still that the question is that why is the overall majority of minorities are wrongfully subjected to stop and frisk searches by police that comes up with nothing as a result. The Afro-American population is not as large, yes, but yet rounded off, 90% of searches comes up with the man as innocent and that was confirmed by independent yet undoubtedly credible monitors with expertise. That's what I take issue to.

 

I don't necessarily oppose the stop and frisk in itself, it is a necessary measure to stop the real killers, true, however I believe that with the retraining of police officers in terms of cultural awareness and sensitivity training, it can work, to restore peaceful relations between PO's and minority civilians.

 

Currently the stop and frisk policy it is being taken advantage of, and abused by these prominent officials of the law enforcement agency, with the backing of right winged politicians, in power to enforce this policy. I believe that is where the judge was coming from in the ruling. That's my honest opinion on it.

 

On  Orion VII 4 Life's comment, even as he is Caucasian, he was subjected the same stop and frisk nonsense, then unjustifiably interrogated and harassed by the PAPD, which is still wrong. I can see definitely why he takes objection to NYPD policy, let alone that of the PAPD. We've talked about this terrible experience he had to go through extensively as of late, and symphasize with the young man. I'm disgusted at how the police treated him.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok that's something to think about. I would say still that the question is that why is the overall majority of minorities are wrongfully subjected to stop and frisk searches by police that comes up with nothing as a result. The Afro-American population is not as large, yes, but yet rounded off, 90% of searches comes up with the man as innocent and that was confirmed by independent yet undoubtedly credible monitors with expertise. That's what I take issue to.

 

I don't necessarily oppose the stop and frisk in itself, it is a necessary measure to stop the real killers, true, however I believe that with the retraining of police officers in terms of cultural awareness and sensitivity training, it can work, to restore peaceful relations between PO's and minority civilians.

 

Currently the stop and frisk policy it is being taken advantage of, and abused by these prominent officials of the law enforcement agency, with the backing of right winged politicians, in power to enforce this policy. I believe that is where the judge was coming from in the ruling. That's my honest opinion on it.

 

On  Orion VII 4 Life's comment, even as he is Caucasian, he was subjected the same stop and frisk nonsense, then unjustifiably interrogated and harassed by the PAPD, which is still wrong. I can see definitely why he takes objection to NYPD policy, let alone that of the PAPD. We've talked about this terrible experience he had to go through extensively as of late, and symphasize with the young man. I'm disgusted at how the police treated him.

Yeah but I completely understand why Orion was stopped and questioned.  He was not supposed to be taking photos there and really had no reason to be there so he should've been stopped and questioned.  We are living in a post 9/11 world and we can no longer take anything for granted. I've worked security before on several occasions and we are always taught to DETER crimes BEFORE they occur. Why? Because once a situation gets out of control, it is much harder to get it back under control.  Stop and Frisk DETERS a great deal of crime.  You can't find how much crime is deterred on any stat sheet, nor will you and that's something that people tend to overlook. Just because someone is stopped and no weapon is found on them doesn't mean that they have no intention of committing any crime.

 

If you know that the police are watching you, you are more likely to keep a low profile unless you're not very bright or are very bold.  Profiling is used every day and is an essential opponent in fighting crime.  

[Turbo19]

Learn to be tolerant? I'm not the one spreading false information about a person because I don't agree with what they're saying.

 

I have not used ONE derogatory word, but you see fit to accuse me of doing so.

Not trying to go off topic, but...

 

 

Lets look at it this way. I'm a middle class, educated white male. Speaking only statistically, what is the likelihood I would be walking around with an illegal gun ready to pop someone? It's slim to none. What's the probibility for a gang banging thug from the projects to have an illegal gun? Hell of a lot higher, isn't.

 

 

like I said several months ago. Far too many terrorist are arabs. Far too many men are rapist and far too many people of minorirty backgrounds are commiting the kinds of violent crime S&F is ment to detir. Personaly I don't like that as much as the next guy. I want to live in a world where stop and frisk would never have been nessiasry. But the ones who are causing it to be nessisary are amoung those who are fighting it. They are balming the cops, when they should be blaming those around them who are shooting, stabing and robbing.

 

 

If they would just stop trying to kill each other, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

"They" are the ones who are ruining everything for everyone else. The vast majoirty of crimes are by people of the same ethnic group as the victim. Blacks are more likley to victimize other blacks, latinos other latinos and so on.

 

So, you're going to sit here and argue you haven't been derogatory in the discusssion? All if this proves the contrary, unless you personally don't find this offense, or derogative in any way, in which case would explain your views better.

 

Enough of these patronizing ad hominems. Your attempt to cop out of this one is not working.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Oh please.  You're just saying that because you were stopped in the airport for taking photos.

Please. I've felt like this since way before I ran into PAPD. Don't tell me how I think, OK?

 

Yeah but I completely understand why Orion was stopped and questioned.  He was not supposed to be taking photos there and really had no reason to be there so he should've been stopped and questioned.  We are living in a post 9/11 world and we can no longer take anything for granted. 

Give me a break! The cops admitted there was NOTHING WRONG with what I was doing.

 

There is NO City, State, or Federal law that prohibits me from entering a non-secure area of the airport without a reason to be there, or taking pictures there. Neither is there a PANYNJ rule on the books, PA only explicitly prohibits photography on the PATH Train and in the PABT and even then it's a PA RULE not a LAW. Also, Newark and most other airports in the US including the other PANYNJ airports are PUBLIC PROPERTY, regardless of PANYNJ's quasi-public status they are owned by the City of Newark/NY and leased to PANYNJ and therefore are public properties. They can stop me and try to question me which is reasonable for doing something suspicious, but I have every right to refuse to answer anything and if I didn't BREAK THE LAW and am not being LAWFULLY DETAINED in a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION I am free to walk on my merry way, these guys just found an excuse to hold me there (for possibly being a runaway, what BS) then they threaten and intimidate myself and my mother and get her to sell me out by answering questions in a completely unnecessary and over-the-top interrogation and allows them to search my belongings, which nearly got me arrested for an inside joke they took out of context on my phone. If they can't get you for one thing, they'll find any and every excuse in the book to get you for something else.

 

With NYPD's Stop & Frisk, they're stopping people and illegally searching them without consent or a warrant, and that is I L L E G A L. If they want to try to stop someone for being "suspicious" fine, but if the person is breaking no law they have every right to walk away and especially to not be searched without a warrant, and you can't RACIALLY PROFILE!

[realizm]

Please. I've felt like this since way before I ran into PAPD. Don't tell me how I think, OK?

 

Give me a break! The cops admitted there was NOTHING WRONG with what I was doing.

 

There is NO City, State, or Federal law that prohibits me from entering a non-secure area of the airport without a reason to be there, or taking pictures there. Neither is there a PANYNJ rule on the books, PA only explicitly prohibits photography on the PATH Train and in the PABT and even then it's a PA RULE not a LAW. Also, Newark and most other airports in the US including the other PANYNJ airports are PUBLIC PROPERTY, regardless of PANYNJ's quasi-public status they are owned by the City of Newark/NY and leased to PANYNJ and therefore are public properties. They can stop me and try to question me which is reasonable for doing something suspicious, but I have every right to refuse to answer anything and if I didn't BREAK THE LAW and am not being LAWFULLY DETAINED in a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION I am free to walk on my merry way, these guys just found an excuse to hold me there (for possibly being a runaway, what BS) then they threaten and intimidate myself and my mother and get her to sell me out by answering questions in a completely unnecessary and over-the-top interrogation and allows them to search my belongings, which nearly got me arrested for an inside joke they took out of context on my phone. If they can't get you for one thing, they'll find any and every excuse in the book to get you for something else.

 

With NYPD's Stop & Frisk, they're stopping people and illegally searching them without consent or a warrant, and that is I L L E G A L. If they want to try to stop someone for being "suspicious" fine, but if the person is breaking no law they have every right to walk away and especially to not be searched without a warrant, and you can't RACIALLY PROFILE!

Wow, I just got KO'ed with this post. Props!

I can't even add to this.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Please. I've felt like this since way before I ran into PAPD. Don't tell me how I think, OK?

 

Give me a break! The cops admitted there was NOTHING WRONG with what I was doing.

 

There is NO City, State, or Federal law that prohibits me from entering a non-secure area of the airport without a reason to be there, or taking pictures there. Neither is there a PANYNJ rule on the books, PA only explicitly prohibits photography on the PATH Train and in the PABT and even then it's a PA RULE not a LAW. Also, Newark and most other airports in the US including the other PANYNJ airports are PUBLIC PROPERTY, regardless of PANYNJ's quasi-public status they are owned by the City of Newark/NY and leased to PANYNJ and therefore are public properties. They can stop me and try to question me which is reasonable for doing something suspicious, but I have every right to refuse to answer anything and if I didn't BREAK THE LAW and am not being LAWFULLY DETAINED in a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION I am free to walk on my merry way, these guys just found an excuse to hold me there (for possibly being a runaway, what BS) then they threaten and intimidate myself and my mother and get her to sell me out by answering questions in a completely unnecessary and over-the-top interrogation and allows them to search my belongings, which nearly got me arrested for an inside joke they took out of context on my phone. If they can't get you for one thing, they'll find any and every excuse in the book to get you for something else.

 

With NYPD's Stop & Frisk, they're stopping people and illegally searching them without consent or a warrant, and that is I L L E G A L. If they want to try to stop someone for being "suspicious" fine, but if the person is breaking no law they have every right to walk away and especially to not be searched without a warrant, and you can't RACIALLY PROFILE!

It still comes down to what a cop deems as suspicious and they're the trained professionals.  Stop and Frisk is a very aggressive and PROACTIVE approach to tackle crime and it is working.  If you notice, the judge didn't rule that Stop and Frisk as a whole is illegal because it was ruled LEGAL years ago by the court because any competent person knows that without Stop and Frisk, the job of a cop would be extremely difficult.