NYS DOT Proposed Funding: New Buses for Suffolk County Transit & HART!

[Burrstone]

New York State Department of Transportation

Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) on draft program for region 10. 

https://www.dot.ny.gov/programs/stip/draftstip/repository/R10-proposed.pdf

 

Suffolk County Transit:

 

New buses in 2014 and 2016!

 

 

New para transit buses in 2014, 2015, 2016, & 2017!

 

 

New bus shelters in 2016!

 

 

Wyandanch Intermodal Transit Facility!

 

 

 

Huntington Area Rapid Transit:

 

9 new 30 foot hybrid transit buses!  Kind of odd they will be replacing buses bought 4 and 5 years ago, I guess they want to get away from straight diesel?  

 

 

 

New para transit vans in 2014, 2015, & 2016!

 

 

 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm confused why they chose Wyandanch rather then Bay Shore on a transit facility.

[Vistausss]

Sounds like good stuff for Suffolk County Transit. Hybrid-electric/diesel buses, I wonder what manufacturer they'll pick.

 

My guess is either Novabus or New Flyer.

[compobus fan]

Sounds like good stuff for Suffolk County Transit. Hybrid-electric/diesel buses, I wonder what manufacturer they'll pick.

I am not a Gillig fan, but there have not been a lot of issues with the four they have (8001-8004)

[Burrstone]

I'm also going to say Gillig considering the relationship SCT and Gillig already have, if SCT knew Orion was going out of business I wonder if that would have affected their decision (maybe buying Gillig's instead)?

I'm confused why they chose Wyandanch rather then Bay Shore on a transit facility.

 

 

I have no idea this is way out of my area of expertise...  Out of curiosity why would Bayshore be better than Wyandanch?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm also going to say Gillig considering the relationship SCT and Gillig already have, if SCT knew Orion was going out of business I wonder if that would have affected their decision (maybe buying Gillig's instead)?

 

 

 

I have no idea this is way out of my area of expertise...  Out of curiosity why would Bayshore be better than Wyandanch?

Because in Bay Shore, you have plenty of routes all over the place terminating in different places within Bay Shore, and you actually have space to make a transit center there (In the 2009 Study, it was mentioned as well that a transit center be made in Bay Shore, but they never suggested Wyandanch). At least with Wyandanch, you have one unison place to transfer (Included in the Wyandanch Transit Center is also a new Wyandanch R.R Station in coordinance), but you need to actually get space to build it.

[Turbo19]

Sounds like Gillig could easily get these orders, but then again perhaps another manufacturer could come with a better cost out of nowhere.

 

In regard to the shelters and transit centers it sounds like the county is really looking to improve the perception of transit, which is always great.

[Amtrak7]

Whatever happened to the belief that hybrids don't offer much fuel advantage on higher-speed routes, of which SCT is laden with?

 

And they chose Wyandanch probably because of the proposed Wyandanch Rising TOD project there.

 

HART has some very old diesel buses. Are they really only a couple years old?

[Burrstone]

HART has some very old diesel buses

 

That is an understatement. lol

 

Is there a fleet list I can find online?

 

 

Are they really only a couple years old?

 

The award says "HUNTINGTON AREA RAPID TRANSIT WILL PURCHASE 9 30FOOT HYBRID

BUSES TO REPLACE EXISTING 9 DIESEL BUSES IN THEIR FLEET. (2 IN 2011

AND 7 IN 2012)"

 

I was wondering why they would be replacing such new buses when they have such old buses!?

 

 

Whatever happened to the belief that hybrids don't offer much fuel advantage on higher-speed routes, of which SCT is laden with?

 

You know if you look at funding in that PDF Suffolk County is getting a lot of money to purchase a bunch of CNG county trucks, I was surprised Suffolk is buying hybrid diesel buses and not CNG, then again the operators don't have CNG at their locations they'd have to fuel up at other locations everyday...

[Amtrak7]

That is an understatement. lol

 

Is there a fleet list I can find online?

The Wikipedia article has a list. Oldest buses supposedly date to 1997. No buses were bought in 2012 and there are 9 straight diesels, the newest of which are eligible for replacement in 2015 so they're going to an all-hybrid fleet.

 

 

You know if you look at funding in that PDF Suffolk County is getting a lot of money to purchase a bunch of CNG county trucks, I was surprised Suffolk is buying hybrid diesel buses and not CNG, then again the operators don't have CNG at their locations they'd have to fuel up at other locations everyday...

I'd think they'd buy straight diesels, like they did with the O7's.

[mac5689]

I'm confused why they chose Wyandanch rather then Bay Shore on a transit facility.

 

They were planing to build a Transit facility in Wyandanch for the last few years, I believe it was proposed by County Executive Bellone back when he was Town Supervisor for the Town Of Babylon to, and If I remember correctly, help revitalize the community of Wyandanch. It has nothing to do with bus routes.

 

 

New York State Department of Transportation

Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) on draft program for region 10. 

https://www.dot.ny.gov/programs/stip/draftstip/repository/R10-proposed.pdf

 

Suffolk County Transit:

 

New buses in 2014 and 2016!

 

 

New para transit buses in 2014, 2015, 2016, & 2017!

 

 

New bus shelters in 2016!

 

 

Wyandanch Intermodal Transit Facility!

 

 

 

They already ordered Par Transit buses this year and last, most of which should have replaced the ones that they already had. (I don't have a full Paratransit roster so I'm not exactly how many they have brought in the past.)   Unless they believe there is going to be an increase in demand, I believe buying Para Vans six straight years is a bit excessive, especially when in the past Suffolk has only brought Para Transit buses three straight years in a row. (Not to mention Suffolk will have a numbering problem since Suffolk numbers by years and the last two Para Transit buses are numbered 12xx and 13xx respectfully.)

 

New transit buses for 2014 isn't a surprise, since the Orion V's would be past 14 years old and the 2000 Gillig Suburbans would be 14 years old and Suffolk retired the last two big Gillig orders at 14 years. 2016 is a bit of a surprise since the 2005 Gilligs would be 11 years old, one year younger then the federal mandate to retire transit buses though I'm sure most of the fleet of 50xx Gilligs would probably reach 500,000 miles or above by then.

 

 

 

I'm also going to say Gillig considering the relationship SCT and Gillig already have, if SCT knew Orion was going out of business I wonder if that would have affected their decision (maybe buying Gillig's instead)?

 

 

 

 

The 2009 Bus Study had suggested buying the 81 buses from Gillig. My guess is that Orion either came in cheaper then Gillig or the County went with Orion because they had a facility in the state. I doubt though that Orion leaving would have effected their decision. 

 

If the state doesn't give a restriction on what type to of bus to buy (If Hybrid Electric or Diesel.) My guess is that Suffolk will go with Clean Diesel. As for manufacture it will probably be whoever is the cheapest or whoever has a plant in the state. (The last administration was on a kick of doing business with companies who were in the County or in the State, I'm not sure if that continued over to the current administration.)   If the state says it has to be both Hybrid Electric and Diesel then it will probably most likely be from whatever company produces both types, since I doubt the county will go with two different manufactures for buses in one year. (The last time they did that was in 1982 when they ordered from both Gillig Phantoms and Chance RT-52's)

[Burrstone]

They already ordered Par Transit buses this year and last, most of which should have replaced the ones that they already had. 

 

 

Who did they order the buses from?

[mac5689]

Who did they order the buses from?

 

 

I believe most were from Coach and Equipment (They listed Suffolk County as a client though not exactly when.) because most of the buses look similar to their Metrolite model, in 2009 they went I believe with ElDorado National because they look like their Areolite model. (The 2009 Para Transit vans were different from all the other Para Transit vans.)  For the ones this year and last they seemed to have gone back to whoever they ordered from before.  If the older ones were Coach and Equipment buses, they are usual certified for 4 years, so I assume most of the ones from 2007 and 2008 are being phased out if they haven't already since their four years are up. 

 

I have only seen the newer models recently, (The last one I can cofirm was in the 12xx range) though someone I know said they saw a Para Transit van from 2005 though whether it was in service for Para Transit service or used one of the companies as a driver relief vehicle I don't know. 

[Burrstone]

Yea. I dunno...  The info on the Coach and Equipment site is not very up to date.  I know Coach & Equipment built a lot of buses for Suffolk County.  I made a trip to their dealership in Canandaigua, NY last summer and decided to take a drive to their factory in Penn Yan, NY because it was only a half hour away.  I talked to a former employee in the town, he told me they hired a bunch of people to help build a large contract for NJ and steady work for Suffolk County but work seemed to fizzle out unexpectedly shortly there after.  I know Coach and Equipment has employees that delivers the buses and doesn't contract that work out to drive away companies.  I know this because I called them and asked what company they contract with for drive away, the receptionist was very rude and short and said they hire their own drivers/  I asked how I would go about getting hired with them, she said drivers HAD to live in the Penn Yan area.  I informed her I lived on Long Island and saw they built buses for NJT and Suffolk County, here on Long Island and was hoping I could talk to someone in charge of hiring because I take a lot of school buses to the Syracuse area, maybe me working with them would work out as I could take buses down to Long Island and NJ.  Instead of transferring me to whoever handles this the women was very rude (as she was the entire time) and sharply said "We lost the contract with New Jersey Transit" (Click she hung up).

 

I have never heard such a rude person talking to any other bus manufacturer, and this is how she represents their company!

 

 

I believe most were from Coach and Equipment (They listed Suffolk County as a client though not exactly when.) because most of the buses look similar to their Metrolite model, in 2009 they went I believe with ElDorado National because they look like their Areolite model...

 

All those buses look alike to me...  lol

[mac5689]

Yea. I dunno...  The info on the Coach and Equipment site is not very up to date.  I know Coach & Equipment built a lot of buses for Suffolk County.  I made a trip to their dealership in Canandaigua, NY last summer and decided to take a drive to their factory in Penn Yan, NY because it was only a half hour away.  I talked to a former employee in the town, he told me they hired a bunch of people to help build a large contract for NJ and steady work for Suffolk County but work seemed to fizzle out unexpectedly shortly there after.  I know Coach and Equipment has employees that delivers the buses and doesn't contract that work out to drive away companies.  I know this because I called them and asked what company they contract with for drive away, the receptionist was very rude and short and said they hire their own drivers/  I asked how I would go about getting hired with them, she said drivers HAD to live in the Penn Yan area.  I informed her I lived on Long Island and saw they built buses for NJT and Suffolk County, here on Long Island and was hoping I could talk to someone in charge of hiring because I take a lot of school buses to the Syracuse area, maybe me working with them would work out as I could take buses down to Long Island and NJ.  Instead of transferring me to whoever handles this the women was very rude (as she was the entire time) and sharply said "We lost the contract with New Jersey Transit" (Click she hung up).

 

I have never heard such a rude person talking to any other bus manufacturer, and this is how she represents their company!

 

I could understand wanting to hire the drivers themselves, but to be so restrictive on how their drivers had to live in the town where their facility was, thats a bit unheard of. Or at least to me.

 

I would be though that most of the orders came from Coach and Equipment if they were the cheapest, though this year and last years order probably came from them because they have a facility in the state and near the term of the last County Executive the county was on a kick of doing business with companies that had a part of their business with-in the state.  

[Burrstone]

I could understand wanting to hire the drivers themselves, but to be so restrictive on how their drivers had to live in the town where their facility was, thats a bit unheard of. Or at least to me.

 

I don't think in the town but maybe in the area (which isn't that big).  I hear many are retired school bus drivers...  As far as delivering their vehicles themselves it is becoming kind of unheard of as it seems to be more expensive.  Contracted companies have options around the country for "reloads" whereas the manufacturer only has the option of spending money to the driver back to home base...  They are free to do what they want, as they are, but it just seems so costly...

[theaveragejoe]

The HART order smells like Gillig.

The Suffolk County Transit order to go to anybody, New Flyer, Gillig or Nova.

[mac5689]

The HART order smells like Gillig.

 

The Suffolk County Transit order to go to anybody, New Flyer, Gillig or Nova.

 

Suffolk will probably go with whoever is cheapest, provided that there aren't specific requirements attached to the money (Like the buses have to be Hybrid Electric or have to be brought from a company that has some part of their business in the state.) or the County doesn't have any specific requirements.  

 

HART probably will be Gillig since they don't seem to have had a diversified fleet since before they brought Gilligs. 

[Burrstone]

Suffolk will probably go with whoever is cheapest, provided that there aren't specific requirements attached to the money (Like the buses have to be Hybrid Electric or have to be brought from a company that has some part of their business in the state.) or the County doesn't have any specific requirements.  

 

Wouldn't that only be Nova?  Wow, Nova's in SCT livery, I'm trying to picture that...

[mac5689]

Wouldn't that only be Nova?  Wow, Nova's in SCT livery, I'm trying to picture that...

 

If they want to go with a company that has a part of their business in the state and Nova is the only one with a part of their business in the state then I'd say it's likely, though like I said thats depending if there aren't any specific requirements. (I mean to me it looks like the money has to be spent on Hybrid Electric buses, I have no idea if Nova has a Hybrid-Electric version. If they don't then that would preclude them.)  

 

If Suffolk doesn't want that much of a diverse fleet, something they haven't had since they retired the 1993 Flexible Metros in 2005, then they may try and go with Gillig. 

[Burrstone]

I still say Gillig, they had their break but I see the SCt  Gillig romance rekindling...  lol

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I would like to imagine an Xclesior in SCT livery. That would be nice.

[mac5689]

I still say Gillig, they had their break but I see the SCt  Gillig romance rekindling...  lol

 

Not counting the 1997 Gilligs,  2000 Surburbans, and the 2008 Gillig BRT (Which Suffolk only got because they were part of a program.) every other large bus order since 1996 has been Gillig. So it's a possibility. 

[Amtrak7]

The budget line says they have to be hybrid (which makes no sense but that's what the money is for...). Nova offers a 40' Hybrid LFS, although I don't know if any US operators run it.

 

NYS content is an MTA procurement rule, not a statewide one, from what I understand. So they could go for Gilligs. And I think they will, because Nova doesn't offer 30' or 35' LFS Hybrids.

[mac5689]

I don't think Suffolk needs any more 30ft buses, since they ordered 16 when they ordered the Orion VII's, and that was the same amount they had of 1997 Gilligs. Since the most likely buses the buses for 2014 would most likely be replacing are the rest of the Orion V's and the 2000 Gillig Phantoms the order could be for 35 foot buses, since those buses are 35ft. Though seeing as the only hybrid buses Suffolk has are 40ft, the order could be for 40ft buses. It all depends of where the buses will be assigned. (Most likely EBT and Suffolk Bus since they are the only two companies with Orion V's and SBC are the only company with 2000 Gillig Phantoms.)

 

If the buses have to be hybrids then my guess is that the order will go to Gillig since I doubt Suffolk would want two different Hybrids in their roster.

 

Since Most likely these buses will replace  the buses currently assigned for the S110, I would assume that the order will go to, besides whoever has a Hybrid version and in the length Suffolk wants, the company who also has an express style seating.