NYS DOT Proposed Funding: New Buses for Suffolk County Transit & HART!

[PinePower]

I hope they dont go with Gillig, didn't they learn their lesson with the 5000s? They are not going to get 12 years out of them. Many have broken down and alot are very slow. I mean slower than a Nassau Orion V Orange with the a/c on! Gilligs are light duty buses, Suffolk Transit has medium to heavy duty routes. They should go with New Flyer. The 5000s are a perfect example of what happens with manufacturers that low bid. On the S58 5077 was struggling to get moving this afternoon with a hot engine and 5007 was dying out on the way to Smith Haven I heard. I sure wish they kept more of those Orion Vs!

[mac5689]

I hope they dont go with Gillig, didn't they learn their lesson with the 5000s? They are not going to get 12 years out of them. Many have broken down and alot are very slow. I mean slower than a Nassau Orion V Orange with the a/c on! Gilligs are light duty buses, Suffolk Transit has medium to heavy duty routes. They should go with New Flyer. The 5000s are a perfect example of what happens with manufacturers that low bid. On the S58 5077 was struggling to get moving this afternoon with a hot engine and 5007 was dying out on the way to Smith Haven I heard. I sure wish they kept more of those Orion Vs!

 

Yeah but if they will be hybrids, they will probably end up being similar to the 2008 Advantage BRT's. There doesn't seem to be many complaints with those buses or at least none that I have heard about. 

 

Besides if I am right and the new buses are intended to replace what is left of the Orion V's and the 2000 Gillig Phantoms then probably only 16 buses will be ordered. (Depending if they want to keep them how the Orion V's and 2000 Gillig Phantoms are assigned, or if they don't intend to replace any of the 50xx's.)

 

5077 has always been used on the S58 though, except for I believe a few times since SBC has gotten it, so of course it's going to be in rough shape, the S58 is a long route. If I remember correctly it was said that the S58 was one of the routes with the most miles at CBS when they had the route.

[Burrstone]

Gilligs are light duty buses, Suffolk Transit has medium to heavy duty routes. 

 

Then why are half the buses on the S1 a Gillig?  I wouldn't consider the S1 a light or medium route...  BTW, every driver on the S1 with 5xxx Gillig has been FLYING when traffic allows, they kind of have to  considering they have to as they frequently run late because of traffic on 110.

 

The BRT is a different storty, they are exclusively on the S1 and babied, although sometimes I think that is the driver (because they are usually the same drivers) and other drivers really open them up, but it's nothing like you feel with a straight diesel.

 

 

Besides if I am right and the new buses are intended to replace what is left of the Orion V's and the 2000 Gillig Phantoms then probably only 16 buses will be ordered. (Depending if they want to keep them how the Orion V's and 2000 Gillig Phantoms are assigned, or if they don't intend to replace any of the 50xx's.)

 

 

As with any organization they will order as many buses as they get funding for...  If it's 10 it's 10, if it's 16 it;s 16, if it's 20 it's 20, no one is going to turn down funding because they only plan on replacing 16 buses.

 

However, if you look at the funding and do the math (guestamating $400,000 per bus) it works out to 15 buses in 2014 and about 16 buses in 2016.

 

You know it is funny, I wondered when they were going to get buses bc I saw a "new" Orion that looked beat to hell and sounded like hell, I found the information on the funding later that night.  lol

[mac5689]

 

The BRT is a different storty, they are exclusively on the S1 and babied, although sometimes I think that is the driver (because they are usually the same drivers) and other drivers really open them up, but it's nothing like you feel with a straight diesel.

 

 

When EBT first got Inter-County's former routes the BRT's were reported to have been used on routes other then the S1. Though I'm assuming that has since stopped, or at least I haven't heard about any BRT's being used on other routes lately. 

 

 

 

As with any organization they will order as many buses as they get funding for...  If it's 10 it's 10, if it's 16 it;s 16, if it's 20 it's 20, no one is going to turn down funding because they only plan on replacing 16 buses.

 

However, if you look at the funding and do the math (guestamating $400,000 per bus) it works out to 15 buses in 2014 and about 16 buses in 2016.

 

 

I was just making a guess on what Suffolk might do based on how in the past they seemed to buy the same amount of buses they retired. The only time I can recall when they didn't was with the the 2010 Orion VII's they brought 81 but retired about 89 buses. 

 

 

 

You know it is funny, I wondered when they were going to get buses bc I saw a "new" Orion that looked beat to hell and sounded like hell, I found the information on the funding later that night.  lol

 

The Orion VII's seem to be accident prone, though I'm not aware of any having major body damage. Though 1057 was out for a time. I know a few companies have had some of their Orion VII's have engine problems. Sometimes multiple times with the same bus. 

[Burrstone]

When EBT first got Inter-County's former routes the BRT's were reported to have been used on routes other then the S1. Though I'm assuming that has since stopped, or at least I haven't heard about any BRT's being used on other routes lately. 

 

I wonder if the BRT's get better fuel mileage in stop and go traffic (which would make sense they are on the s1) or if they get better mileage on longer routes where the buses go faster?  Perhaps that is what they were testing on the new routes?

 

I don't know how transit buses work but usually with hybrid cars they run on battery power (and charge the battery) over 40 and use fuel under 40.  That is why "hybrid" buses seem like an oxiyoron if they work in the same way because transit buses (in general) hardly go over 40...  If the County wanted to be green they should order CNG buses, it is odd they are not considering how many new CNG trucks Suffolk County is getting, replacing diesel trucks as part of their green initiative. 

 

The Orion VII's seem to be accident prone, though I'm not aware of any having major body damage. Though 1057 was out for a time. I know a few companies have had some of their Orion VII's have engine problems. Sometimes multiple times with the same bus. 

 

I have seen a few EBT Orions with scraps and minor dents on the sides, like a driver wasn't paying attention and scraped something during a turn...  It looks like these buses are parked very tight in the EBT lot I assume some of the marks could come from damage in the lot.

 

Speaking of which, do you know if EBT has another lot in the area?  I have been past their lot on some Sundays and it doesn't really look like they have much more buses parked than before they took over the new routes.  I'm wondering where they're parking the extra buses (maybe in some of the school bus lots)? I was expecting the side streets to be flowing with buses on the night before they started service on the routes they won from Inter County, didn't seem like there was one extra bus in there.

[PinePower]

Then why are half the buses on the S1 a Gillig?  I wouldn't consider the S1 a light or medium route...  BTW, every driver on the S1 with 5xxx Gillig has been FLYING when traffic allows, they kind of have to  considering they have to as they frequently run late because of traffic on 110.

 

The BRT is a different storty, they are exclusively on the S1 and babied, although sometimes I think that is the driver (because they are usually the same drivers) and other drivers really open them up, but it's nothing like you feel with a straight diesel.

 

 

 

As with any organization they will order as many buses as they get funding for...  If it's 10 it's 10, if it's 16 it;s 16, if it's 20 it's 20, no one is going to turn down funding because they only plan on replacing 16 buses.

 

However, if you look at the funding and do the math (guestamating $400,000 per bus) it works out to 15 buses in 2014 and about 16 buses in 2016.

 

You know it is funny, I wondered when they were going to get buses bc I saw a "new" Orion that looked beat to hell and sounded like hell, I found the information on the funding later that night.  lol

 

The BRT's are good buses, but I'm not sure if that's what Suffolk would order from Gillig again. They cant order anymore Phantoms since they are out of production (Thank God). I'm hoping more buses will be replaced, there's no way the 5000s are gonna make it 12 years, they are on their death bed now. Suffolk should've got some of those Ex-Fairfax Connector V's I see floating around on Ocean Ride, they are in great shape and are a waste on a pathetic system like Ocean Ride. I dont mince words I hate the 5000s and would like to see them gone in a couple of years. I have been delayed countless times because of them. Plus they ride like crap. Typical Phantoms. Remember the ones at LIB?

[PinePower]

Yeah but if they will be hybrids, they will probably end up being similar to the 2008 Advantage BRT's. There doesn't seem to be many complaints with those buses or at least none that I have heard about. 

 

Besides if I am right and the new buses are intended to replace what is left of the Orion V's and the 2000 Gillig Phantoms then probably only 16 buses will be ordered. (Depending if they want to keep them how the Orion V's and 2000 Gillig Phantoms are assigned, or if they don't intend to replace any of the 50xx's.)

 

5077 has always been used on the S58 though, except for I believe a few times since SBC has gotten it, so of course it's going to be in rough shape, the S58 is a long route. If I remember correctly it was said that the S58 was one of the routes with the most miles at CBS when they had the route.

 

Some of the SBC ones are also in bad shape, 5011,5013, & 5015 run even worse than 5077 according to a driver there. He said everytime he gets 5013 he breaks down. 5071, 5079, & 5081 are the only ones I've been on lately that run decently, but even they have their problems. Most have over 500K miles on them too. I really wish SBC would put the lighter mileage buses on the longer routes like the S58, but they seem to avoid using the VII's on them, I've only seen 1031 & 1060 on it occasionally. I guess because they have less seating & the 58 gets crowded. I feel the mistake was made when they ordered the 5000s, they should've went with the Orion V's like Bee-Line did. 

[mac5689]

Some of the SBC ones are also in bad shape, 5011,5013, & 5015 run even worse than 5077 according to a driver there. He said everytime he gets 5013 he breaks down. 5071, 5079, & 5081 are the only ones I've been on lately that run decently, but even they have their problems. Most have over 500K miles on them too. I really wish SBC would put the lighter mileage buses on the longer routes like the S58, but they seem to avoid using the VII's on them, I've only seen 1031 & 1060 on it occasionally. I guess because they have less seating & the 58 gets crowded. I feel the mistake was made when they ordered the 5000s, they should've went with the Orion V's like Bee-Line did. 

 

5011 has been bad on and off, something to do with the engine or at least recently, or so I've heard. It was last seen being run on the S40 out of Bay Shore. 5074 spent time there and came back in better so maybe the same will happen to 5011. 

 

Haven't heard much about 5013 lately, the last time I did I believe was last year when it ran out of fuel on the 7B. 

 

I wonder if the BRT's get better fuel mileage in stop and go traffic (which would make sense they are on the s1) or if they get better mileage on longer routes where the buses go faster?  Perhaps that is what they were testing on the new routes?

 

I don't know how transit buses work but usually with hybrid cars they run on battery power (and charge the battery) over 40 and use fuel under 40.  That is why "hybrid" buses seem like an oxiyoron if they work in the same way because transit buses (in general) hardly go over 40...  If the County wanted to be green they should order CNG buses, it is odd they are not considering how many new CNG trucks Suffolk County is getting, replacing diesel trucks as part of their green initiative. 

 

 

Because the truck are probably used out of County yards where as the buses are run out of the bus companies yards and it would probably cost to much for the companies to build special fuel areas for the transit buses. 

 

Suffolk Transportation has electric school buses st their Coarm yard, which is being expanded and will some day have transit buses running out of it.

 

I don't know if they were testing the BRT's on other routes, or since they didn't have a lot of Orion VII NG's (Before getting ICMC's routes, they had only 7 40ft Orion VII's and Two 35 ft Orion VII's that many drivers weren't highly qualified to drive them so they allowed them to take the 40ft out on the other routes. It makes sence since most of the drivers who had been driving a few Ex ICMC routes had originally were at EBT. At least one driver, who was driving the S63, had gotten lost and off route.)

 

I have seen a few EBT Orions with scraps and minor dents on the sides, like a driver wasn't paying attention and scraped something during a turn...  It looks like these buses are parked very tight in the EBT lot I assume some of the marks could come from damage in the lot.

 

Speaking of which, do you know if EBT has another lot in the area?  I have been past their lot on some Sundays and it doesn't really look like they have much more buses parked than before they took over the new routes.  I'm wondering where they're parking the extra buses (maybe in some of the school bus lots)? I was expecting the side streets to be flowing with buses on the night before they started service on the routes they won from Inter County, didn't seem like there was one extra bus in there.

 

I know of some Orion VII's that have been in accidents and have come away with very little to no damage. 

 

They have two yards on either side of Court street at Sunrise and then another one between Cedar Street and Hudson (Across from a Baumann and Sons/ Acme Bus Corp yard, just north of the Court Street yard. I have no idea where exactly they keep Transit buses in both yards or just the Court Street yard. 

[PinePower]

I remember back when CBS was around they said they couldn't get hybrids because they wouldn't fit in their garage (or yard). CBS had a tiny yard with "lake" in the middle of it. Backwoods bus depot for sure! 

[Burrstone]

I remember back when CBS was around they said they couldn't get hybrids because they wouldn't fit in their garage (or yard). CBS had a tiny yard with "lake" in the middle of it. Backwoods bus depot for sure! 

 

Wouldn't what buses they get be the choice of the county?  If your lot or yard can't handle the buses it looks like you're not qualified to be an operator for SCT IMO...   This should be part of the process when rebidding on the routes, if the buses the County wants can't fit, your loss, or spring for a location that fits the buses...  LOL Why should they dictate things like this, a lot of companies would be dying for this contract and would bend over backwards to get it, while the ones who have feel they can make demands for what they are paid to do.  Amazing!  lol

 

I think within the next 10 years we are going to see a major shake up in Suffolk Transit operators..

 

 

Because the truck are probably used out of County yards where as the buses are run out of the bus companies yards and it would probably cost to much for the companies to build special fuel areas for the transit buses. 

 

Obviously the operators wouldn't be able to afford to build CNG fueling stations at their location as this is a massive cost.  But just because these buses are housed at the operators location is not an excuse not to be using CNG in this day and age IMHO.  Especially when the county has a "green" initiative but is ironically ordering buses that will be burning diesel until 2028, kind of ironic....  Not to mention the $avings of using CNG...

 

I have a feeling these buses are being ordered because the County's contract with the operator includes the the price of diesel and the operators mechanics are probably not skilled in maintaining and repairing CNG vehicles.

 

But looking to the future (assuming these operators are still running the service)...  There are several options for operators to take the buses to get fueled up http://www.cngprices.com/station_map.php the only "problem" I see is is with EBT's yard, however I think you could schedule and interline the buses easy enough so they are in a location to be fueled once a day...

 

If you notice CleanEnergy is in many locations, they LOVE throwing money at projects for CNG pumps so long as they use their logo/fuel and allow the public to use the pumps...  This may be an option for Suffolk Transit in the near future, house the buses in 2 or 3 locations, Western Suffolk, Eastern Suffolk, and perhaps a location way out east for eastern routes way out there...  Although (after this order) the next time Suffolk plans on new buses CNG stations will probably be a lot more plentiful, in fact I was surprised by how many more locations are on that map when I looked tonight than a year ago!

[mac5689]

Wouldn't what buses they get be the choice of the county?  If your lot or yard can't handle the buses it looks like you're not qualified to be an operator for SCT IMO...   This should be part of the process when rebidding on the routes, if the buses the County wants can't fit, your loss, or spring for a location that fits the buses...  LOL Why should they dictate things like this, a lot of companies would be dying for this contract and would bend over backwards to get it, while the ones who have feel they can make demands for what they are paid to do.  Amazing!  lol

 

I think within the next 10 years we are going to see a major shake up in Suffolk Transit operators..

 

 

 

Actually it was said that Sunrise Coach Lines refused getting any Orion V's, which was why 9604-9608 were transferred from CBS to Sunrise, and why Sunrise also got 2001. (Well 2001 was to "replace" 9609 which burned down some time before it could be transferred.)

 

I think with CBS it was more that they couldn't fit if the Hybrids were 40 ft buses with probably pulling into or out of the yard or maybe with parking them in  the yard, or maybe it was a height thing since they probably had low hanging branches. 

 

 

 

Obviously the operators wouldn't be able to afford to build CNG fueling stations at their location as this is a massive cost.  But just because these buses are housed at the operators location is not an excuse not to be using CNG in this day and age IMHO.  Especially when the county has a "green" initiative but is ironically ordering buses that will be burning diesel until 2028, kind of ironic....  Not to mention the $avings of using CNG...

 

I have a feeling these buses are being ordered because the County's contract with the operator includes the the price of diesel and the operators mechanics are probably not skilled in maintaining and repairing CNG vehicles.

 

But looking to the future (assuming these operators are still running the service)...  There are several options for operators to take the buses to get fueled up http://www.cngprices.com/station_map.php the only "problem" I see is is with EBT's yard, however I think you could schedule and interline the buses easy enough so they are in a location to be fueled once a day...

 

If you notice CleanEnergy is in many locations, they LOVE throwing money at projects for CNG pumps so long as they use their logo/fuel and allow the public to use the pumps...  This may be an option for Suffolk Transit in the near future, house the buses in 2 or 3 locations, Western Suffolk, Eastern Suffolk, and perhaps a location way out east for eastern routes way out there...  Although (after this order) the next time Suffolk plans on new buses CNG stations will probably be a lot more plentiful, in fact I was surprised by how many more locations are on that map when I looked tonight than a year ago!

 

Suffolk was suppose to be ordering clean diesel buses, as part of any Green initiative, or at least thats what I heard and the 2010 Orion VII NG's are suppose to be clean diesel. 

[Burrstone]

Actually it was said that Sunrise Coach Lines refused getting any Orion V's, which was why 9604-9608 were transferred from CBS to Sunrise, and why Sunrise also got 2001. (Well 2001 was to "replace" 9609 which burned down some time before it could be transferred.)

 

I think with CBS it was more that they couldn't fit if the Hybrids were 40 ft buses with probably pulling into or out of the yard or maybe with parking them in  the yard, or maybe it was a height thing since they probably had low hanging branches. 

 

 

I know, and I'm saying (IMHO) if they can't accommodate the buses Suffolk wants them to use they can't accommodate the contract.  It is absurd any operator can make these demands and SCT allows it, especially with the amount of companies that would probably love to have this contract and bend over backwards for it.  Just looking at it from a broad perspective it is very ballsy of a company to get this contract and say "we can't accommodate the buses you want to give us because of our yard/bays, give us xyz..."  lol ...are you kidding me!?!

 

Perhaps the next time SCT renews the contract they need to put a stipulation in saying the contract must be able to accommodate abc...xyz (spelled out with the specifications of each type of bus).  If they can't accommodate any bus after that, sorry, they violated the terms of the contract...

[mac5689]

I know, and I'm saying (IMHO) if they can't accommodate the buses Suffolk wants them to use they can't accommodate the contract.  It is absurd any operator can make these demands and SCT allows it, especially with the amount of companies that would probably love to have this contract and bend over backwards for it.  Just looking at it from a broad perspective it is very ballsy of a company to get this contract and say "we can't accommodate the buses you want to give us because of our yard/bays, give us xyz..."  lol ...are you kidding me!?!

 

Perhaps the next time SCT renews the contract they need to put a stipulation in saying the contract must be able to accommodate abc...xyz (spelled out with the specifications of each type of bus).  If they can't accommodate any bus after that, sorry, they violated the terms of the contract...

 

Assuming that the driver PinePower heard that from didn't themselves hear the information wrong, because sometimes that has happened, it was a moot point since Suffolk only received four Hybrid Buses because they were a part of some state program and didn't seem interested in buying more. Though now of course is a different story. 

 

Suffolk has seemed to have re done their contracts so that unless another company can either find a yard or build one that can handle up to or more then 50 buses, I don't see a change in operators by the time the current contract is up in another three years I think. (I was told that the contract was for 5 years like in the past.) Assuming that they don't try and change the contract again, though like I said with out an operator with a big enough yard, or the county deciding to make their own depot and allow a company to operate out of it like Nassau/NICE, I can't see how they could do better then the current contract.  I mean SBC operates their contracts out of two yards, possibly three when they are done with the work to their Coram yard., and Twin Forks runs their contract out of Sunrise and Hampton Jitney's yards. (Since they company is jointly owned by the two or so I've been told.) The only company that seems to run their operation out of one yard is EBT.

 

 

I have no idea what reason Sunrise could have had for not wanting any Orion V's, though my guess would probably have something to do with training drivers on a different type of bus since all the buses assigned to Sunrise at the time were Gilligs. 

[Burrstone]

Assuming that the driver PinePower heard that from didn't themselves hear the information wrong, because sometimes that has happened, it was a moot point since Suffolk only received four Hybrid Buses because they were a part of some state program and didn't seem interested in buying more. Though now of course is a different story. 

 

Suffolk has seemed to have re done their contracts so that unless another company can either find a yard or build one that can handle up to or more then 50 buses, I don't see a change in operators by the time the current contract is up in another three years I think. (I was told that the contract was for 5 years like in the past.) Assuming that they don't try and change the contract again, though like I said with out an operator with a big enough yard, or the county deciding to make their own depot and allow a company to operate out of it like Nassau/NICE, I can't see how they could do better then the current contract.  I mean SBC operates their contracts out of two yards, possibly three when they are done with the work to their Coram yard., and Twin Forks runs their contract out of Sunrise and Hampton Jitney's yards. (Since they company is jointly owned by the two or so I've been told.) The only company that seems to run their operation out of one yard is EBT.

 

Not picking on you, but based on this comment and a comment you made about in our discussions about school buses i'm really wondering why you feel it is so hard for any company to find a yard in Suffolk county.  Seriously, I could search loopnet and craigslist and easily find multiple locations in an hour.  ANY company could easily buy or lease a yard with a repair shop easily, or build a facility on a plot of land.  Honestly any company could easily get a yard, it's a price of doing business it's not like this would be a problem for any company that won the contract.  It's not like SCT has to choose from the current operators because they are the only ones who have a yard in Suffolk County because no other company could buy or lease a yard in Suffolk County.

 

Suffolk has seemed to have re done their contracts so that unless another company can either find a yard or build one that can handle up to or more then 50 buses, I don't see a change in operators by the time the current contract is up in another three years I think. (I was told that the contract was for 5 years like in the past.) Assuming that they don't try and change the contract again, though like I said with out an operator with a big enough yard, or the county deciding to make their own depot and allow a company to operate out of it like Nassau/NICE, I can't see how they could do better then the current contract. 

 

It takes weeks maybe months to find/build a reasonable yard not 3 years, the yard is a moot point and probably not a deciding factor.  I see a real shake up for SCT when these contracts are up...  We'll have to wait and see if I'm right.

[Burrstone]

oops, double post... 

 

[mac5689]

Not picking on you, but based on this comment and a comment you made about in our discussions about school buses i'm really wondering why you feel it is so hard for any company to find a yard in Suffolk county.  Seriously, I could search loopnet and craigslist and easily find multiple locations in an hour.  ANY company could easily buy or lease a yard with a repair shop easily, or build a facility on a plot of land.  Honestly any company could easily get a yard, it's a price of doing business it's not like this would be a problem for any company that won the contract.  It's not like SCT has to choose from the current operators because they are the only ones who have a yard in Suffolk County because no other company could buy or lease a yard in Suffolk County.

 

 

I didn't mean that it would be hard to find a yard. It maybe hard to find one if a certain capacity is needed, like they don't want more then one yard so they need a yard that fits say 50 or so buses. Also since it was said that Suffolk gives the companies money for up keep for the yards so if they have any requirements for the yards then it could be difficult to find a yard. 

 

To build a yard from scratch could and probably would be hard depending on where you want to make it. I mean Suffolk Transportation faced outcry from residence in Brentwood when they wanted to take an unused parking lot and turn it into a small yard for Mini buses used for the districts contract. They also had run into public out cry back in the 80's when they wanted to build another yard in Bay Shore, that plan was scrapped. 

 

 

It takes weeks maybe months to find/build a reasonable yard not 3 years, the yard is a moot point and probably not a deciding factor.  I see a real shake up for SCT when these contracts are up...  We'll have to wait and see if I'm right.

 

I didn't mean it would take three years to build a yard, I meant the current contract was up in three years.  

[Burrstone]

 Also since it was said that Suffolk gives the companies money for up keep for the yards so if they have any requirements for the yards then it could be difficult to find a yard.

 

Wow, that's a deal for the company, especially if they run other operations out of the yard, like school buses...   ..

 

But to build (or more likely) find a yard is not hard, it's really a non issue if a company won a contract..  No company is going to turn down a contract or not bid because they don't have a yard in the area when one could easily be obtained, it's a price of doing business not a barrier preventing them from doing business.

 

A perfect example of this is We Transport/Towne Bus winning a bid for NYCDOE transportation and setting up a yard in the Bronx (dba Van Trans), the Bronx is much harder than Suffolk County to find an adequate location for a bus yard, but again its proof that is a non issue that they had no problem in a harder area.  There is a lot of real estate available now more  than ever because of the aftermath of the economy...

 

As far as "not in my back yard" you are right about that, I've seen school bus yards in the city on the news for constantly idling buses, hell Atlantic Express off 110 in Farmingdale is surrounded by residential houses and there is line of buses on one particular street with houses on it, I'm surprised this hasn't been on the news yet.  If we are playing "pretend"and i were in the situation of finding a yard I'd only put it in a commercial area or business park, where they belong and you wouldn't have to deal with residential neighbors.

 

There are many available places that fit the bill, no matter the needs.

[mac5689]

But to build (or more likely) find a yard is not hard, it's really a non issue if a company won a contract..  No company is going to turn down a contract or not bid because they don't have a yard in the area when one could easily be obtained, it's a price of doing business not a barrier preventing them from doing business.

 

A perfect example of this is We Transport/Towne Bus winning a bid for NYCDOE transportation and setting up a yard in the Bronx (dba Van Trans), the Bronx is much harder than Suffolk County to find an adequate location for a bus yard, but again its proof that is a non issue that they had no problem in a harder area.  There is a lot of real estate available now more  than ever because of the aftermath of the economy...

 

 

I never said they couldn't bid if they didn't have a yard. I was saying that maybe Suffolk specified that they needed the facilities in place or show that they were in the possess of obtaining facilities in order to win the bid. I mean the buses were transferred between companies 9CBS and SBC, and ICMC and EBT) during the New Years holiday. Besides whoever was the lowest bidder. 

 

Acme had brought a used car dealership upstate to use for a contract the had, though the contract wasn't renewed when it came up this year. 

 

 

Wow, that's a deal for the company, especially if they run other operations out of the yard, like school buses...   ..

 

CBS Lines never used the money that Suffolk gave to maintain their yard, it was the reason why CBS was always audited (that may not be the exact word used.) by the county every so often, or so I was told. 

 

 

 

As far as "not in my back yard" you are right about that, I've seen school bus yards in the city on the news for constantly idling buses, hell Atlantic Express off 110 in Farmingdale is surrounded by residential houses and there is line of buses on one particular street with houses on it, I'm surprised this hasn't been on the news yet.  If we are playing "pretend"and i were in the situation of finding a yard I'd only put it in a commercial area or business park, where they belong and you wouldn't have to deal with residential neighbors.

 

There are many available places that fit the bill, no matter the needs.

 

The problem wasn't with idling buses, or at least no mention of that was made, the problem was that the matrons were also going to be picked up and dropped off at the yard. 

[Burrstone]

I never said they couldn't bid if they didn't have a yard. I was saying that maybe Suffolk specified that they needed the facilities in place or show that they were in the possess of obtaining facilities in order to win the bid. I mean the buses were transferred between companies 9CBS and SBC, and ICMC and EBT) during the New Years holiday. Besides whoever was the lowest bidder. 

 

I know exactly what you were saying. a business would have a hard time entering the market without a yard on the Island, giving preference to a current operator because they have a yard in the area, right?

[mac5689]

I know exactly what you were saying. a business would have a hard time entering the market without a yard on the Island, giving preference to a current operator because they have a yard in the area, right?

 

I don't think I would call it preference, it would be more that the current operator would have a leg up being that they have an established yard and have successfully provided service out of it.  It also wouldn't help a new comer when the current operators have been operating since the system was started.  

[Burrstone]

I really think it is a non issue not a leg up, as far as experience goes some companies like Veolia and First Transit have experience from running multiple operations around the Country and around the world.  These companies are able to think outside of the box and present new ideas to the county to help better run the system where the current operators do things like they've always done them "because that's the it's always been done.  (If true) the example of the one company telling them can't have 40' buses because their yard can't handle them and/or because their drivers aren't trained on 40' buses.

 

The county has already talked (nothing more than talk) about ending contracts early but I think the County will wait out these contracts, and if I can predict the future I think Suffolk will work with one of the bigger companies in the country to reorganize the transit system.  The system is very wasteful, I mean you have buses deadheading out of Copaigue to Babylon and vise versa because they kept the same schedule...  i'm sure you could give me examples of waste out east since the new contract...

[mac5689]

I really think it is a non issue not a leg up, as far as experience goes some companies like Veolia and First Transit have experience from running multiple operations around the Country and around the world.  These companies are able to think outside of the box and present new ideas to the county to help better run the system where the current operators do things like they've always done them "because that's the it's always been done.  (If true) the example of the one company telling them can't have 40' buses because their yard can't handle them and/or because their drivers aren't trained on 40' buses.

 

The county has already talked (nothing more than talk) about ending contracts early but I think the County will wait out these contracts, and if I can predict the future I think Suffolk will work with one of the bigger companies in the country to reorganize the transit system.  The system is very wasteful, I mean you have buses deadheading out of Copaigue to Babylon and vise versa because they kept the same schedule...  i'm sure you could give me examples of waste out east since the new contract...

 

Well if you aren't given a certain bus then it's kind of hard to train drivers on it, and even harder if you are given a limited number. 

 

Though CBS Lines was running out of their old sister company's (CBS Lines was an off shoot of either Coram Bus Service or Coram Line Service, I'm not sure exactly which.) which wasn't the best yard and is pretty old. Also before the 80's the yard was even smaller then it was now. 

 

I'm not sure if there is any waste in dead heading since all the routes, except for one, still have the same operator. Though seeing as the drivers that do end or start in my area can use either Sunrise or the LIE to get to and from the yard I don't see a problem. 

[theaveragejoe]

The budget line says they have to be hybrid (which makes no sense but that's what the money is for...). Nova offers a 40' Hybrid LFS, although I don't know if any US operators run it.

 

NYS content is an MTA procurement rule, not a statewide one, from what I understand. So they could go for Gilligs. And I think they will, because Nova doesn't offer 30' or 35' LFS Hybrids.

 

Nova doesnt offer LFS in 30 or 35 foot period.

The budget line says they have to be hybrid (which makes no sense but that's what the money is for...). Nova offers a 40' Hybrid LFS, although I don't know if any US operators run it.

 

NYS content is an MTA procurement rule, not a statewide one, from what I understand. So they could go for Gilligs. And I think they will, because Nova doesn't offer 30' or 35' LFS Hybrids.

 

Only in Canada so far has LFS hybrids

 

• Brantford Transit - Brantford, ON
• Coast Mountain Bus Company - Metro Vancouver, BC
• Conseil intermunicipale de transport des Laurentides (SURF) - Laurentides, QC
• Grand River Transit - Waterloo Region, ON
• Réseau de transport de la Capitale - Quebec City, QC
• Roam - Banff, AB
• Société de transport de l'Outaouais - Gatineau, QC
• Société de transport de Montréal - Montréal, QC
• Strathcona County Transit - Sherwood Park, AB

http://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Nova_Bus_LFS_HEV

[mac5689]

 

New York State Department of Transportation

Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) on draft program for region 10. 

https://www.dot.ny.g...10-proposed.pdf

 

Suffolk County Transit:

 

New buses in 2014 and 2016!

 

Any update on this, I've heard a rumor that Suffolk isn't going to get new buses next year. 

[Burrstone]

Where'd you hear the rumor?  The only way I see this not happening is if the funding fell through,