Suffolk Express Commuter bus Service on LIE!

[Burrstone]

New York State Department of Transportation

Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) on draft program for region 10. 

https://www.dot.ny.gov/programs/stip/draftstip/repository/R10-proposed.pdf

 

 

 

Notice that the agency listed to get funding is the NYSDOT not Suffolk County Transit, interesting!

[qjtransitmaster]

It should also go to Nassau.

[Burrstone]

Some thoughts:

 

I never thought of "express" and the LIE in one thought before, especially during AM and PM rush hours. lol  I guess they will use the HOV lane?, but still...  

 

I wonder if the funds include purchasing commuter coaches, because the idea of transit style buses in the HOV lane on the LIE  just seems dangerous when one of them crashes because of dangerous, speeding drivers on the road.

 

Does anyone want to make any assumptions about the agency being funded for this project is the NYSDOT not Suffolk County Transit?  My brain is going crazy thinking of all the possibilities this could mean (including the future of Long Island having express bus service ran by an agency other than SCT or NICE). 

[qjtransitmaster]

Some thoughts:

 

I never thought of "express" and the LIE in one thought before, especially during AM and PM rush hours. lol  I guess they will use the HOV lane?, but still...  

 

I wonder if the funds include purchasing commuter coaches, because the idea of transit style buses in the HOV lane on the LIE  just seems dangerous when one of them crashes because of dangerous, speeding drivers on the road.

 

Does anyone want to make any assumptions about the agency being funded for this project is the NYSDOT not Suffolk County Transit?  My brain is going crazy thinking of all the possibilities this could mean (including the future of Long Island having express bus service ran by an agency other than SCT or NICE). 

Shortline coachusa

[Burrstone]

Shortline coachusa

 

Veolia. lol

[qjtransitmaster]

Veolia. lol

Damn they have serious balls.

[Burrstone]

I don't understand why that would be ballsy of them, business is business and this is the business they're in.  Suffolk has said they are intrigued by the Veolia/Nassau deal and will be watching it closely.  Although they did bid on SCT routes when the last contracts were up and were outbid or were turned down...

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't understand why that would be ballsy of them, business is business and this is the business they're in.  Suffolk has said they are intrigued by the Veolia/Nassau deal and will be watching it closely.  Although they did bid on SCT routes when the last contracts were up and were outbid or were turned down...

But yeah LIRR is not near LIE but it is close to more people. With a 2nd track added the reverse problem would go bye bye.

[Amtrak7]

Are you sure this is new service? I'm thinking this is the NYSDOT funding line for the S110, much like the TappanZeeXpress has NYSDOT funding.

 

Unless it's no longer eligible, SCT should try JARC.

[Burrstone]

Are you sure this is new service? I'm thinking this is the NYSDOT funding line for the S110, much like the TappanZeeXpress has NYSDOT funding.

 

Unless it's no longer eligible, SCT should try JARC.

Could be...

[FamousNYLover]

Are you sure this is new service? I'm thinking this is the NYSDOT funding line for the S110, much like the TappanZeeXpress has NYSDOT funding.

 

Unless it's no longer eligible, SCT should try JARC.

It is not new service. It's Suffolk Clipper.

http://sct-bus.org/schedules/st_clipper.pdf

[PinePower]

Pretty sure it's funding for the S110 clipper which goes between Melville and Happaugue industrial parks. It doesn't get many passengers. A Ronkonkoma LIRR-Riverhead service would do much better but for some reason they won't try it. 7 bus wants $15 for that trip! I'm guessing Schoolman is greasing some palms to keep it from happening, maybe North Fork Express is involved too since it would hurt their Splish Splash business....unfortunately the rider loses out.

[Burrstone]

Is the S110 run by EBT?  What is ridership like?

 

$940,000 for the S110?    YIKES!

 

let's just break this down for 2014...  The S110 runs M-F so 5 days a week x 52 weeks = 260 days.  SCT does not operate on New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving or Christmas Day, so 260-6 = 254 days the S110 Operates.  $940,000 / 254 = $3700.79 a day.  $3700.79 / 7 runs (3 AM routes 4 PM runs) = $528.68 per run! That's well over $400 per hour  !

[mac5689]

I don't understand why that would be ballsy of them, business is business and this is the business they're in.  Suffolk has said they are intrigued by the Veolia/Nassau deal and will be watching it closely.  Although they did bid on SCT routes when the last contracts were up and were outbid or were turned down...

 

This is news to me, must have bid either very quietly or very highly, since none of my sources mentioned a bid by them. Though my guess is that their bid was rejected because Veolia doesn't have any facilities in Suffolk and Suffolk doesn't have the money to build their own bus depot like Nassau has. 

 

 

Is the S110 run by EBT?  What is ridership like?

 

$940,000 for the S110?    YIKES!

 

let's just break this down for 2014...  The S110 runs M-F so 5 days a week x 52 weeks = 260 days.  SCT does not operate on New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving or Christmas Day, so 260-6 = 254 days the S110 Operates.  $940,000 / 254 = $3700.79 a day.  $3700.79 / 7 runs (3 AM routes 4 PM runs) = $528.68 per run! That's well over $400 per hour  !

 

No the S110 is now operated by Suffolk Bus Corp. It used to be operated by CBS Lines until the last contract when all CBS's routes went to Suffolk Bus Corp. 

[Burrstone]

Though my guess is that their bid was rejected because Veolia doesn't have any facilities in Suffolk and Suffolk doesn't have the money to build their own bus depot like Nassau has. 

 

 

I don't think a depot was the issue they could easily any number of shops with bays and a yard that are vacant in Suffolk County.

 

 

This is news to me, must have bid either very quietly or very highly, since none of my sources mentioned a bid by them.. 

 

I don't think it was that secret or quiet as I have talked to SCT drivers who knew about it...  If you look at Veolia's job postings they always put out job postings with (proposed business) followed by the area in the job title for contracts they are interested in.  These postings are long gone from the Veolia website as they were in the summer of 2011 but the evidence still remains if you do a google search for "(proposed business) Suffolk County, NY" some of the job search engines retained this info and will display it (but will say "this job is no longer available."

[mac5689]

I don't think a depot was the issue they could easily any number of shops with bays and a yard that are vacant in Suffolk County.

 

 

I don't think there were any at the time that could have handled up to 50 buses. That may change though with Atlantic Express pulling out of the School bus business in Suffolk County. 

 

Suffolk changed how they bid their routes. Now all the routes in the west is bidded together (53 buses), All the routes in the middle are bidded together (82 buses), and all the east end routes are bidded together (25 buses). Thats why Sunrise and Hampton Jitney had to create Twin Forks Transit. 

 

Though I would assume Veolia bidded to high if they did bid since EBT low bidded Inter-County Motor Coach, which is why EBT got ICMC's old routes. 

 

 

 

I don't think it was that secret or quiet as I have talked to SCT drivers who knew about it...  If you look at Veolia's job postings they always put out job postings with (proposed business) followed by the area in the job title for contracts they are interested in.  These postings are long gone from the Veolia website as they were in the summer of 2011 but the evidence still remains if you do a google search for "(proposed business) Suffolk County, NY" some of the job search engines retained this info and will display it (but will say "this job is no longer available."

 

I know someone who works with in the offices of one company and they didn't mention about hearing about Veolia placing a bid, so I would say that it wasn't common knowledge. 

 

Though, and I'm not saying that the rumors weren't true, I should point out that just because drivers say they knew doesn't mean they really knew. I mean back in 2003 or so ICMC drivers said that they heard the MTA were going to take over and that never happened. 

[Burrstone]

Though, and I'm not saying that the rumors weren't true, I should point out that just because drivers say they knew doesn't mean they really knew. I mean back in 2003 or so ICMC drivers said that they heard the MTA were going to take over and that never happened. 

 

Believe me I know about rumors from drivers...  I heard a SCT driver once telling passengers that SCT was going to be that's why they bought the Orions...  lol  I also heard I don't know how many LIB drivers just before the Veolia take over was not going to going happen and the was staying, we saw how that panned out lol I enjoyed riding the buses to hear that particulars spin on the rumor that particular day.

 

 

I know someone who works with in the offices of one company and they didn't mention about hearing about Veolia placing a bid, so I would say that it wasn't common knowledge. 

 

I never said it was common knowledge just passing along what I heard..  I have no reason to lie about or make this up.  I heard this, looked into and it seems Veolia was interested in bidding as they were posting jobs with "(proposed business) Suffolk County, NY" in the job title, as they do before they bid on most contracts.  Maybe they ended up not bidding, who knows...

 

You know people who work in the office at one of the companies that runs service for SCT or actually works for SCT in their office?  Either way you have to keep in mind that most the public and most employees (either working for EBT or a company providing contracted service) are usually not told about who is bidding on what...

 

 

Though I would assume Veolia bidded to high if they did bid since EBT low bidded Inter-County Motor Coach, which is why EBT got ICMC's old routes. 

 

I have no idea what routes Veolia bid on but in general I don't think anyone anticipated EBT under bidding Inter County by $1 million (as reports I have heard) theoretically this could be a reason ( along with a million others) that Veolia lost the  bid.  Maybe EBT heard Veolia was sniffing around and bid lower than they thought they would to get the routes?  Who knows, I'd be be thrilled to find out though.

 

 

 

I don't think there were any at the time that could have handled up to 50 buses. That may change though with Atlantic Express pulling out of the School bus business in Suffolk County. 

 

 How many buses are we talking?  I bet I could find one that meets the needs in an afternoon on loopnet or craigslist.  There are also tons of temporary solutions until a permanent solution is involved.  It's not like you'd have to wait for a property containing buses to move out before another company can move in.  

 

Just one idea off the top of my head, look at the abandoned car dealerships around...  Even if the bay doors are not commercial it wouldn't be that big of a deal to update them to commercial doors so buses could fit in the bay.

 

Just saying this probably wouldn't be that big of a burden....

 

 

I don't think there were any at the time that could have handled up to 50 buses. That may change though with Atlantic Express pulling out of the School bus business in Suffolk County. 

 

.Ok back up just a minute?  What is going on with AE?

[mac5689]

 

.Ok back up just a minute?  What is going on with AE?

 

Atlantic Express pulled out of at least four School District contracts (Longwood, Comsewogue, Three Village, and possible Hauppauge) because they lost over six hundred or so school buses because of Superstorm Sandy. It was was said that they were pulling out of School Bus operations in Suffolk completely.  The Longwood contract, which they had just renewed, was transferred to Suffolk Transportation Service for large buses, and mini buses was transferred to a sister of Montauk Bus. Comsewogue and Three Village (AE operated both contracts out of the same yard in East Seatuaket.) were going to contract with Suffolk Transportation Service as well. Thats why Suffolk Transportation's Coram Yard (United Bus Corp's former yard.) was recently expanded.

 

AE had two other yards that I know of besides the East Setauket and Medford yard. Both in Farmingdale. 

 

I'm not sure whats going on with their operations in Nassau. 

[Burrstone]

WOW I had no idea that AE had yards that far out east.  I know AE lost a bunch of buses in Staten Island and Oceanside, in fact their yard in Staten island flooded and there was an explosion destroying buses.  This past winter Blue Bird expedited 100 replacement buses for Atlantic Express.  Before Blue Bird became a favorite of AE replacing old buses with sharp looking Visions!  I delivered a few of the new buses pre sandy, some of the delivery drivers complained how stripped down (option wise) the buses were lol but that's Atlantic Express!  (some school districts get their buses with every option you could imagine!)

 

Did buses really get destroyed in those yards or did they pull them out and give them to other yards that had buses destroyed?

 

Is there any shot of getting the contracts back?  It seems kind of unfair for a business to be punished in the long run like this because of a natural disaster.  Maybe it was a strategic move on AE's part to provide buses on the most profitable contracts they didn't want to lose, I'm sure they're contract gives them an out liability wise in the event of natural disasters or at least the insurance money from the destroyed buses will  cover any penalties of defaulting on the contracts.

 

Blue Bird may be Atlantic's new favorite (on Long Island) but I'm pretty sure they could have easily bought 500 buses by now by dividing the order up among different bus builders.  That is if they had the money, because of some type of odd insurance snafu they weren't covered for this type of a loss, AE stated after the fact that this would probably make the entire company go under and be the end of Atlantic Express.  Looks like they bounced back alright though.  

 

 

AE had two other yards that I know of besides the East Setauket and Medford yard. Both in Farmingdale. 

 

Yes, they have two yards in Farmingdale one on Baiting Place Rd. (Taybern Bus) next to the new Army Depot that Yard serves Amityville (Suffolk), Massapequa (Nassau) the contract is split with EBT), Seaford (Nassau), and  Wantagh. (Nassau).  For those who don't know those 4 towns are right next to each other on the south shore, AE's Oceanside Yard picks right up at the Bellmore-Merrick School District, and then Freeport, AE really has a lock on southern Nassau!

 

The other Farmingdale yard (K Corr) on New HWY serves Farmingdale,I think Plainedge or Plainview? (I forget which), and from what I see online possibly Bethpage.

[Vistausss]

But yeah LIRR is not near LIE but it is close to more people. With a 2nd track added the reverse problem would go bye bye.

 

Except for the Ronkonkoma line, LIRR doesn t need to add a second track to their singled tracked branches. All they need is a few more sidings to make bypassing easier and faster (especially when there are delays). Either that or they need to double-track a few stations. Mastic-Shirley for example has lots of room for a second platform.

[mac5689]

WOW I had no idea that AE had yards that far out east.  I know AE lost a bunch of buses in Staten Island and Oceanside, in fact their yard in Staten island flooded and there was an explosion destroying buses.  This past winter Blue Bird expedited 100 replacement buses for Atlantic Express.  Before Blue Bird became a favorite of AE replacing old buses with sharp looking Visions!  I delivered a few of the new buses pre sandy, some of the delivery drivers complained how stripped down (option wise) the buses were lol but that's Atlantic Express!  (some school districts get their buses with every option you could imagine!)

 

Did buses really get destroyed in those yards or did they pull them out and give them to other yards that had buses destroyed?

 

Is there any shot of getting the contracts back?  It seems kind of unfair for a business to be punished in the long run like this because of a natural disaster.  Maybe it was a strategic move on AE's part to provide buses on the most profitable contracts they didn't want to lose, I'm sure they're contract gives them an out liability wise in the event of natural disasters or at least the insurance money from the destroyed buses will  cover any penalties of defaulting on the contracts.

 

Blue Bird may be Atlantic's new favorite (on Long Island) but I'm pretty sure they could have easily bought 500 buses by now by dividing the order up among different bus builders.  That is if they had the money, because of some type of odd insurance snafu they weren't covered for this type of a loss, AE stated after the fact that this would probably make the entire company go under and be the end of Atlantic Express.  Looks like they bounced back alright though.  

 

 

 

Yes, they have two yards in Farmingdale one on Baiting Place Rd. (Taybern Bus) next to the new Army Depot that Yard serves Amityville (Suffolk), Massapequa (Nassau) the contract is split with EBT), Seaford (Nassau), and  Wantagh. (Nassau).  For those who don't know those 4 towns are right next to each other on the south shore, AE's Oceanside Yard picks right up at the Bellmore-Merrick School District, and then Freeport, AE really has a lock on southern Nassau!

 

The other Farmingdale yard (K Corr) on New HWY serves Farmingdale,I think Plainedge or Plainview? (I forget which), and from what I see online possibly Bethpage.

 

The East Seatuket and Medford yards are in the name of Amboy Bus. Blue Bird buses made up a good part of AE's fleet out of the East Setauket yard during the mid  to late 90's. I know my old school bus route for Comsewogue always had a Blue Bird bus assigned to it. The only timeit wasn't was either when the regular bus was out for maintenance or we had a substitute driver. (A/E has provided buses for Comsewogue since I went to school in that district in the 90's, though maybe well before that. They provided buses for Three Village since 1984)

 

I think AE serves Lindenhurst with big buses as well, or at least I remember seeing a photo of a AE bus pulling up to one of their schools. 

 

I'm not sure what is happening with the buses AE has out here, that wasn't mentioned. I don't think it's well known what is going on, since I had only found out what was happening when I had goggled about Coram and that information about the change in school bus providers came up.  

 

Comsewogue already had Suffolk Transportation Service providing Mini buses, because STS took over all United Bus Corps contracts, (Which included Port Jefferson and I believe Pat-Med.) So if they can get both Large and Mini buses together cheaper then two separate contracts then I doubt they will go back to AE if AE decides to come back.

 

However as of now A/E has sold the their contracts in the School Districts I said before. Though there is no word if Hauppauge will be going to Suffolk Transportation. Though according to the district assistant superintendent for business services for Three Village School District AE is dropping its school bus transportation commitments in Suffolk County. I have yet to find anything on any of AE's other Suffolk contracts or those they have in Nassau.

 

My guess is that if they sell the Amityville contract that it will probably go to EBT or Baumann and Sons since they are the only two school bus providers in that area. 

[Burrstone]

I think AE serves Lindenhurst with big buses as well, or at least I remember seeing a photo of a AE bus pulling up to one of their schools. 

 

Actually Baumann & Sons serves Lindenhurst I'm not sure when that happened but I know last year or the year before I was driving in Lindenhurst just as schools got out and I saw all Baumann & Sons Buses on the road, I was like "huh."  lol  I thought EBT served them, but haven't paid much attention to it and have gotten Copiague and Lindenhurst in more ways than one. lol

 

I know some EBT drivers and am always interested in the bus business and it's history...  I found out that EBT was founded by the Corr family, at some point in time they won the Massapequa, Farmingdale, and Lindenhurst contract (among others) what the "history" doesn't tell is that the K Corr yard was sold to Atlantic Express.  lol  Interesting, I wish there was a documentary on this or book I could read on this.

 

 

 

My guess is that if they sell the Amityville contract that it will probably go to EBT or Baumann and Sons since they are the only two school bus providers in that area. 

 

I don't think that'll happen, I know Atlantic Express has been downsizing it's operations for a while but I don't think they would get rid of Amityville just because it is in Suffolk...  I mean the yard that covers it (Raybern in Farmingdale) is closer than the other districts it serves (Massapequa, Seaford, and Wantagh) and it would really shake things up in that yard as one of the four districts they served would be gone and they would have to layoff drivers.  If a company only did Amityville they would have a hard time attracting drivers as the district has a "reputation" wild children and even parents trying to start fights bc their child got disciplined on the bus. Don't get me wrong there are also a lot who love driving in Amityville, have done it for years, and wouldn't have it any other way.  New drivers usually end up in Amityville and put up with it because they want to put in their and hope a year or two later they can get into Seaford or Wantagh.  

 

What I could realistically see happening is that AE sees the Raybern yard (the whole package, buses, contracts, drivers who are ready) to a company looking to expand their brand and presence on the island.  But who knows what the future of AE holds with the Founder retiring and new CEO named, will the new CEO expand or decrease its school bus business?  on the Island?  I can't wait to see what happens!

 

 

My guess is that if they sell the Amityville contract that it will probably go to EBT or Baumann and Sons since they are the only two school bus providers in that area. 

 

First Student has a location in Amityville right down the road from the AE Raybern Yard in Farmingdale...  

 

An interesting note is that the Raybern property is not owned by AE, they lease the yard, building, etc from the guy (or family) they bought the Raybern operation from..

 

If AE did something bold like sell of the raybern location and contracts it could be anybody, anyone with the huger and money.

 

Durham School Services is not on the island (that I know of) with AE selling off these contracts I am surprised Durham hasn't tried to get into the game on Long Island!

[Vistausss]

Regarding the contracts for school buses: why does it smell like Veolia all of a sudden?

[Turbo19]

Regarding the contracts for school buses: why does it smell like Veolia all of a sudden?

Would Veolia have an equipped subdivision similar to First (Transit/Student) to bid?

 

Honest question as I never looked to much into that.

[theaveragejoe]

 

Blue Bird may be Atlantic's new favorite (on Long Island) but I'm pretty sure they could have easily bought 500 buses by now by dividing the order up among different bus builders.  That is if they had the money, because of some type of odd insurance snafu they weren't covered for this type of a loss, AE stated after the fact that this would probably make the entire company go under and be the end of Atlantic Express.  Looks like they bounced back alright though.  

 

 

 

Not only could they have got 500 new buses by now, they could have replaced with the 1000's of late models that are up for sale across North America

Would Veolia have an equipped subdivision similar to First (Transit/Student) to bid?

 

Honest question as I never looked to much into that.

 

 

If they wanted to they easily could buy school buses. They have a school bus divison in Quebec Canada.