Rockaway Residents Rally For Return Of Abandoned Subway Line

[Far Rock Depot]

Rockaway residents have wanted-and needed this-for decades. A subway line to northern queens has many benefits. The option of NOT taking a bus up Woodhaven or even Brewer. Local or express, saying this as a former 20-year rockaway resident, would be a huge improvement over going thru brooklyn and lower manhattan for trips to midtown and north. Then theres those who also travel just to Qns Bl, Jackson Heights and even Flushing. Its not just about getting to Manhattan, its about traveling to northern queens without multiple buses and traffic. And who says the line would have to run local on the QBL? The bellmouths at 63rd can be used like the way they connected the 63rd St line to QBL- use the bellmouths to move the local tracks to the outside so the current local tracks can be used as the spurs to the RoW, allowing trains to access either the local or express tracks. Something like that will increase service flexibility especially during blocks. An LIRR will fail. It was abandoned once before for a reason. If Rockaway residents wanted to use the LIRR, its right there on Namoke St. A subway is what's wanted and needed. As far as what line, I see it easier to make a new service line. Maybe during overnights and weekends, the line will see some sort of Shuttle service from QB to the Rock, With Thru service to and from Rockaway during peak hour unless there is a demand for more service. Although I do agree with the SBS alternative-which not to long ago I was told here was ridiculous-A long term solution is to indeed bring in a line from the rockaways to the northern part of queens. 

[Wallyhorse]

Here's my idea. Its only able to work with the second avenue subway (stubway lol) being open

 

The becomes based out of coney island yard, and runs from 95th to Ditmars

The is based out of Jamaica Yard, runs from whitehall to the rockaways

The runs to 96th Street.

stays on its current route.

 

Also hopefully CBTC would make it so they could run more M trains per hour so people in east queens by forest hills dont lose a lot of local service.

EXACTLY the way I would do it, EXCEPT for a couple of changes I would make:

 

The and would swap Brooklyn terminals, with the running Coney Island-West End to Ditmars while the would run 95th Street-205th Street. 

 

The also would become a 24/7 line like it used to be while the would serve the current 's role of going to Astoria on weekdays (usually 5:30 AM-10:30 PM) while at other times would run with the to 96th Street to supplement SAS service nights and weekends.

 

This would be done so the has a yard at Coney Island since the has Concourse Yard.  Coney Island riders would still have the for 6th Avenue service there.

 

The as I would do it would run Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park, eliminating the need for the Rockaway Park .

[Vistausss]

 

If the goal is to serve the local market at intermediate stops, the line isn't terribly well located - it's several blocks from the Woodhaven Blvd. corridor, where the commercial activity is clustered. Enhanced bus service - SBS or whatnot - would probably serve that market better.

 

SBS would serve the area right, but it would be much slower unless you really wanna seperate the bus lanes from other traffic (and the current traffic light setup) in Manhattan but theres no room for that. So either way you end up with nice, fast SBS service within the Rockaways but to Manhattan it would be no faster than the .

[CenSin]

Very few have mentioned making this a second crosstown service. The , being the only Brooklyn–Queens service is kind of poor. The Rockaway right-of-way, from its unique route gets to be a crosstown line and connect to Manhattan.

[mtattrain]

Very few have mentioned making this a second crosstown service. The , being the only Brooklyn–Queens service is kind of poor. The Rockaway right-of-way, from its unique route gets to be a crosstown line and connect to Manhattan.

 

Very true story my man. Not only those 2 features, though; this possible crosstown-Manhattan line could also provide direct service to the Rockaways! (if they decide to do that)

 

 

EDIT: I also realized that the Rockaway Park shuttle could be eliminated if the new subway line is made, providing another direct route to Manhattan; there are 2 branches in the Rockaways, and there could be 2 services if the rest of the Rockaway Branch is reactivated.

[Vistausss]

Very few have mentioned making this a second crosstown service. The , being the only Brooklyn–Queens service is kind of poor. The Rockaway right-of-way, from its unique route gets to be a crosstown line and connect to Manhattan.

 

Indeed. Like I said: we could connect this to Jamaica LIRR (just like AirTrain). That way it becomes sort of a shuttle but serving a better area than the current to Rock Park.

[pjbr40]

question about the from Whitehall to Rockaway? How is that possible to connect these two line? you need to look at track map before you speak out.

[Vistausss]

question about the from Whitehall to Rockaway? How is that possible to connect these two line? you need to look at track map before you speak out.

 

from Whitehall via the to the Rockaway ROW. Maybe youre the one who needs to look at the track map...

[itmaybeokay]

Very few have mentioned making this a second crosstown service. The , being the only Brooklyn–Queens service is kind of poor. The Rockaway right-of-way, from its unique route gets to be a crosstown line and connect to Manhattan.

 

Speaking of the (G)eorge: 

 

If you sent the or even the down the rockaway line, connected to QBL, this would free terminal capacity at Forest Hills. 

 

That would allow you to extend the back into queens making it truly a crosstown line once again. As has been discussed - the Queens Blvd Local tracks have plenty of spare capacity, it's the Forest Hills terminal that prevents extra local service from being added to the line. 

 

I'm not sure there would be any benefit, but you could even send the down the re-opened ROW to the Rockaways - Especially considering most passengers would transfer to other, express lines for service into manhattan. . 

[Grand Concourse]

Very few have mentioned making this a second crosstown service. The , being the only Brooklyn–Queens service is kind of poor. The Rockaway right-of-way, from its unique route gets to be a crosstown line and connect to Manhattan.

It's been mentioned before in some of the other similar threads. But yes, Queens does need another north south line to connect the 2 parts together. The buses are just too slow. The Q53 used to be a good line, but it's been horribly neutered with all the extra stops (when they should've added just the subway transfers).

 

Very true story my man. Not only those 2 features, though; this possible crosstown-Manhattan line could also provide direct service to the Rockaways! (if they decide to do that)

 

 

EDIT: I also realized that the Rockaway Park shuttle could be eliminated if the new subway line is made, providing another direct route to Manhattan; there are 2 branches in the Rockaways, and there could be 2 services if the rest of the Rockaway Branch is reactivated.

Also possible as this line would need to terminate somewhere. If they don't want to connect it to QB, it could be an extended Rockaway Park S or to Woodhaven and turn back via switch tracks west of the station (set below the current tracks obviously so it doesn't obstruct normal service and perhaps a set up for the QB super express under the rest of Queens blvd).

[Fresh Pond]

Here's my idea. Its only able to work with the second avenue subway (stubway lol) being open

 

The becomes based out of coney island yard, and runs from 95th to Ditmars

The is based out of Jamaica Yard, runs from whitehall to the rockaways

The runs to 96th Street.

stays on its current route.

 

Also hopefully CBTC would make it so they could run more M trains per hour so people in east queens by forest hills dont lose a lot of local service.

There's a reason why the was moved from Ditmars in the 80s (along with the from Continental) in the first place...when the was at Ditmars, it had no direct access to any yard while the has direct access to both Jamaica & Coney Island yards

[R32 3838]

Here's my idea. Its only able to work with the second avenue subway (stubway lol) being open

 

The becomes based out of coney island yard, and runs from 95th to Ditmars

The is based out of Jamaica Yard, runs from whitehall to the rockaways

The runs to 96th Street.

stays on its current route.

 

Also hopefully CBTC would make it so they could run more M trains per hour so people in east queens by forest hills dont lose a lot of local service.

Actually the would come out of pitkin yard instead of jamaica since the rockaways are closer to pit kin, but I would leave the where its at

[Union Tpke]

The could have two Broadway Locals on QB. The would run from the Rockaways to Whitehall St. The would run as normal. I think there needs to be a Broadway train at Forest Hills; this allows an easy transfer from Eastern Queens to get a seat on the or because their stop is on the ; once you would get to Woodhaven (If it's an express stop which I support) then you would be able to get a seat as easily. 

Also, If there would be only two QB local trains then on weekends there would be no trains on the local from 63 Drive to 71 Avenue.

[Vistausss]

But they should cut a few TPH from the if they seriously implement the to the Rockaways to allow for the to return to Forest Hills.

[bobtehpanda]

Indeed. Like I said: we could connect this to Jamaica LIRR (just like AirTrain). That way it becomes sort of a shuttle but serving a better area than the current to Rock Park.

 

The already goes there - there's no point in creating a giant hook, and Woodhaven does have a lot of people who dont currently have great transit access to Manhattan.

 

Honestly, it would be operationally easier to just extend the Rockaway shuttle north to Woodhaven and have it end on a lower level or something.

[CenSin]

The already goes there - there's no point in creating a giant hook, and Woodhaven does have a lot of people who dont currently have great transit access to Manhattan.

Good point.

 

The most efficient subway lines are the straightest ones. Every detour made wastes time. Unless there is an economic or geopgraphical reason to make a detour (usually rivers, streets, and soil conditions), always follow the straightest path.

[pjbr40]

please provide where the connection from whitehall street to rockaway can happen? to me it still impossible.

[Union Tpke]

please provide where the connection from whitehall street to rockaway can happen? to me it still impossible.

Have a train go up Broadway, QBL then come off after Rego Park some new tunnel to the LIRR Rockaway Branch then it continues on to the Rockaways.

[Vistausss]

please provide where the connection from whitehall street to rockaway can happen? to me it still impossible.

 

Wasnt that made clear on the previous page?

[pjbr40]

ok now you said it union but it wont happen!!!!!

[bobtehpanda]

ok now you said it union but it wont happen!!!!!

 

Well, a big assumption this proposal makes is that the MTA will not elect to run two services into Astoria AND a service into Queens Blvd after completion of the Second Avenue Subway, which would be a terrible, terrible mistake due to the ridership on the Astoria Line and the volume of transfers at QBP from the to the and .

 

The remaining choices are then the , , Rockaway , or the (but then you risk creating an awful delay cascade should something happen on the Queens Blvd Line).

[Vistausss]

Rockaway is the only way to go to prevent delays when something happens. Just shuttle it from the area along the ROW to Rockaway Park and riders can transfer to the along the way. Or connect it, like I said, to Jamaica on the other side. You can say all you want but even shuttling the to Jamaica is better than the current bus service.

[bobtehpanda]

Rockaway is the only way to go to prevent delays when something happens. Just shuttle it from the area along the ROW to Rockaway Park and riders can transfer to the along the way. Or connect it, like I said, to Jamaica on the other side. You can say all you want but even shuttling the to Jamaica is better than the current bus service.

 

The existing bellmouths are not configured to link in that direction, so it would be extremely expensive to turn it back (and there's also no room at Jamaica Center for any more trains, and nobody at 179th is going to take an express Hillside train if it turns southeast into Queens again).

[Grand Concourse]

The already goes there - there's no point in creating a giant hook, and Woodhaven does have a lot of people who dont currently have great transit access to Manhattan.

 

Honestly, it would be operationally easier to just extend the Rockaway shuttle north to Woodhaven and have it end on a lower level or something.

Exactly my point. Basically, I would have Woodhaven be set up the way Dekalb is with the tracks to the Rockaways on the outer sides so riders can transfer across the platform for the local. The tracks could then be extended past the station on another level for relaying and possibly set up for another trunk line like the Queens super express. The QBL can only take on so many more trains, may as well build a new trunk line to take some of the pressure off.

[R40SlantFan]

Exactly my point. Basically, I would have Woodhaven be set up the way Dekalb is with the tracks to the Rockaways on the outer sides so riders can transfer across the platform for the local. The tracks could then be extended past the station on another level for relaying and possibly set up for another trunk line like the Queens super express. The QBL can only take on so many more trains, may as well build a new trunk line to take some of the pressure off.

I like that idea a lot really