Fast-food workers begin strikes across U.S. over wages

[MHV9218]

I don't see what profits have to do with anything.  If profits are good, then you can reward your employees with a little bonus, but you don't overpay employees.  That's not economically sustainable and it most certainly isn't financially responsible as a company, nor is it responsible to your stockholders who also invest in the company and make the company viable to go overpaying employees just because.  

 

You seem to be confusing 'overpaying' with 'fairly paying.' Minimum wage for untipped and tipped workers is outrageously low. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not at all... I don't see tending to premade burgers as hard work... Those places have everything laid out for you. They just need a body. No real thinking necessary...

[bobtehpanda]

The flip side of low minimum wages at fast food and retail is that a lot of people are actively forced to use other benefits that the government provides in lieu of insurance or health benefits that they could've purchased themselves with a higher rate. Because the amount of middle-skilled jobs has decreased over the years, more and more people are forced to take lower wage jobs and supplement that with food stamps, Medicaid, and other programs. In fact, Walmart in particular was discovered to be actively encouraging employee use of these programs in an effort to reduce costs for the company - California calculated the costs of covering low-paid workers with government benefits at $6000+ per worker, which would go quite a long way toward reducing the state deficits across the country if it was eliminated.

 

I'd also like to dispel the stereotype that all fast food and retail workers are young 20-somethings looking for work to do on the side or during summer. This is not the case at all - I have seen many elderly workers working in retail and fast food, and these people need other sources of income besides SS and food stamps due to the ridiculously high cost of living. (I don't remember who, but some celebrity attempted to subsist on a healthy diet while only spending the amount allotted for food stamps, and failed pretty early on.)

 

Not at all... I don't see tending to premade burgers as hard work... Those places have everything laid out for you. They just need a body. No real thinking necessary...

 

Fast food is a hazardous occupation, usually without any health benefits. Workplaces can be unsanitary and accidents may happen due to the high-speed nature of a fast food operation. Fast food joints also tend to be robbed pretty frequently, since there are a lot of disgruntled employees who would happen to know that a certain location locks up or opens at a certain time with only one person on duty.

[realizm]

Now I'm all for Americans getting paid decent wages BASED UPON the skills that they're doing and I generally support unions provided that they don't become greedy.

 

OK good, excellent, you are seeing both sides of the coin here. The costs of living against the minimum wage does not add up where it comes to minimum wage jobs in retail. Many retail positions if you notice are strictly part time. The reason is so that they will not be obligated to provide for health insurance benefits for those struggling to make end meet (not students which is contrary to many people's beliefs but everyday people as bobtehpanda was alluding to in the above post ) Of course we cannot expect restaurant workers to be paid 45 dollars an hour (exaggeration) but 7.25 an hour is below the minimum for a quality human life. One cannot even pay rent with that kind of wage. You can't.

 

RTS CNG Command already showed you what the math adds up to in terms of the current minimum wage against the cost of living.  Especially in NYC that can barely even get you a room for rent in this city, forget the basic necessities like food and decent clothing. 

 

 

Instead of complaining about not being paid enough for a low wage job, go out and get some friggin' skills and improve your education!  If they think $15 is what they should get with no skills, then what should someone with a degree with actual skills get?  Now I'm all for decent wages but this is ludicrous.   Every worker deserves to be in a union huh?  lol I guess you have some deep pockets for McDonald's then...

 

Realize too that costs for tuition for higher education skyrocketed. A person needs a number of credits to be eligible for FASLA or TAP etc etc to survive. (rr4567 touched upon this fact and MVH9218 confirmed it) This all means a person (alluding to the poverty cycle model again) trapped in minimum wage jobs will have to work over 40 hrs (two P/T retail jobs) plus F/T school to be able to get an higher education -and- receive the state and federal grants to pay for it! I've seen this. Terrible situation, extremely difficult (cannot even eat or sleep right, engage in extracurricular activities let alone afford a single room for rent with high real estate costs) and only some people are able succeed in breaking the poverty cycle by obtaining a college degree in a reputable field givin these added challenges the affluent do not have to face in terms of higher education.

 

See why I was saying it can take 5 years or more sometimes for people to get out of the vicious poverty cycle into the middle income bracket? Hence the term wage slavery.

 

I hotlinked the member's posts for proper emphasis. That was exactly what I was trying to explain to you in the previous debate, in the previous thread, concerning NYCTA and fingerprinting all as side points as to why many are trapped in public housing. Now connect the dots and see the big picture, this is a symptom of a failing capitalist model as I was saying. I hope you are seeing that I'm not the only one saying this. With *facts* and not just the usual spewing of so called empty headed ultra leftist politically correct jargon you may or may not perceive it to be, because we are absolutely not, these are quality of life issues we are talking about here.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think we know who are working these jobs. The issue is a lack of jobs. These companies aren't going to turn around and say, we're sorry that so many better paying jobs went overseas, so let's make up for that by paying you more than what the job is worth, nor should they.This is Obama's fault. His administration has FAILED MISERABLY to provide good paying jobs and needs to reward American companies hiring American workers and not moving overseas. Instead, he comes up with Obamacare, which is KILLING job growth here. These companies can't afford Obamacare, so they're holding back on hiring by hiring fewer people.

[MHV9218]

I mean, you wanna just regurgitate all the propaganda FOX News puts out these days? You sound like a cliché of a Republican. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

DELETE

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Propaganda huh? I think the job numbers speak for themselves. His second term in office and still no results. Who should we blame for that? The fast food companies I guess.

[Tokkemon]

Yeeeaah, Obama's not done well with the economy at all.

[SoSpectacular]

I don't see what profits have to do with anything.  If profits are good, then you can reward your employees with a little bonus, but you don't overpay employees.  That's not economically sustainable and it most certainly isn't financially responsible as a company, nor is it responsible to your stockholders who also invest in the company and make the company viable to go overpaying employees just because.  

Kinda like how CEOs get all those cash bonuses and stock options on top of their base salaries? I personally find it sickening

[Via Garibaldi 8]

CEO's are the face of the company and they have a huge impact on the direction and the success of the company. They're not all villains. Most companies are small businesses, not big fast food chains.

[bobtehpanda]

Just pointing out that middle-income job growth has sucked ever since the turn of the millenium, so it's not like this is a one-Administration problem.

 

For what it's worth, Europe and Japan would kill to have our growth rates (and it's also the reason growth sucks right now, because there's only so much you can do when your main export destinations are in recessions or see growth rates of less than 1%.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@bob... Nice excuses but I recall this administration calling for change we could believe in... If anything it's been worse, not better and the big elephant in the room.... We don't manufacture here the way that we used to! You have a lot of manufacturing jobs that helped to foster the middle class being replaced by low wage service jobs, like fast food jobs and now people want more money for jobs that are low skilled. The answer should be to bring more manufacturing back here that pay more. Americans wanted cheaper products which we have now.They sacrificed high paying jobs in the process, so in essence, they can't have it both ways. They complain about expensive American goods, but want high paying jobs... lol

[MHV9218]

^^ This is simply not something the government can control. As you probably like, we have a free market economy. That means when big American companies want to pay workers as little as possible to maximize their profits, they leave and go abroad. That's the market for you, not the president.

 

Propaganda huh? I think the job numbers speak for themselves. His second term in office and still no results. Who should we blame for that? The fast food companies I guess.

 

 

Yeeeaah, Obama's not done well with the economy at all.

 

Unemployment continues to go down, the markets are at record highs, and the stimulus has proven successful. For a mess Bush created, he's done decently.

[realizm]

I think we know who are working these jobs. The issue is a lack of jobs. These companies aren't going to turn around and say, we're sorry that so many better paying jobs went overseas,

 

Bingo. You're getting it. Just for that one fragment of a sentence, +1.

 

However it's really the rich business owners who outsource the American jobs making the culprit of this job market mess citizens in our own backyard. See these same wealthy business owners with monetary funds from liquid assets, grants from private interests and profits earned in the millions many times billions of dollars? Of course they have enough money that would be enough to create jobs in our economic market. Let's take Microsoft's Bill Gates, he's sending billions and billions of charitable donations to countries outside the US , whereas, he could have spent that would have created jobs in this country instead of his big mansions, big boats and so forth.

 

I'm shocked that the US congress is tolerating this. Now this is what is going on in the IT field and we as homegrown IT professionals are suffering as a result. Now look at the low wage workers.....

 

Who have to go up a creek without a paddle even as they get a secondary college education to shatter the poverty barrier (those who are not deadbeats but who wish dearly to get the piece of apple pie.)

 

As for Obama, another war monger as Bush, I don't really see a difference wasting trillions on the ongoing efforts in investing in other countries on a defense and arms level in the name of regime change. You see how bad this situation really is. And it's the nation's poor that gets shitted on. That's what I vehemently despise.

 

 

Propaganda huh? I think the job numbers speak for themselves. His second term in office and still no results. Who should we blame for that? The fast food companies I guess.

 

It's the CEO's elitist special interest groups and the US government are ultimately responsible. As I told you....

 

For the record I did not vote for Obama or Romney or McCain. I said they can all kiss my ass, all the same they are tearing this dear democratic country apart, economically to say the least!

 

 

^^ This is simply not something the government can control.

Sure about that? See above quote.

[bobtehpanda]

@bob... Nice excuses but I recall this administration calling for change we could believe in... If anything it's been worse, not better and the big elephant in the room.... We don't manufacture here the way that we used to! You have a lot of manufacturing jobs that helped to foster the middle class being replaced by low wage service jobs, like fast food jobs and now people want more money for jobs that are low skilled. The answer should be to bring more manufacturing back here that pay more. Americans wanted cheaper products which we have now.They sacrificed high paying jobs in the process, so in essence, they can't have it both ways. They complain about expensive American goods, but want high paying jobs... lol

 

Politicians have been spewing hopeful rhetoric for years - Obama was just a lot better at sounding convincing. Manufacturing isn't completely gone - it's moved to the South because of their less stringent union laws and better logistics. You see it with Boeing opening its new plant in the South instead of expanding its Seattle facility - whether it's another country or another state, companies will open factories where they can make things cheaply and transport things easily and cheaply.

 

The advantages of outsourcing to China have disappeared - transport costs have risen, labor costs have risen, and there's a worker shortage in coastal China where all the exports are. Most companies are expanding in China these days to serve the Chinese market, since their consumers have a lot of savings to spend (and like super-flashy, dependable Western brands). There is no other country on earth with the infrastructure (India has crap infrastructure and crappier regulators) and the sheer amount of people to make things as dirt cheap as China, so we could be seeing some manufacturing move back to North America.

 

Why do I say North America? Because the United States is not the only game in town. Mexico has lower labor costs and is about to undergo some serious market reform. Canada has a well-educated workforce, and the automakers have perfected the art of just-in-time delivery to the United States. It's sort of like how the energy industry places those ads saying that they provide millions of jobs in 'North America' - that's because they're exploiting the Canadian oil sands and the North Dakota shale formations.

 

The President does not actually have much power. Congress is where the real work gets done, and since Congress has been reduced to a bunch of talking heads fighting on social issues and refusing to compromise on any sort of economic issue, then nothing will get done. (It was like this in the first two years as well, because the Blue Dog conservative Democrats were too worried about losing their seats to actually pass meaningful reforms.)

 

Our nation's industrial decline has been going on for at least a decade, and it's a problem bigger than any one person or Administration can handle. Until something is done about the Congress's inability to function, we won't get anywhere. And that's a fact.

[Trainmaster5]

Politicians have been spewing hopeful rhetoric for years - Obama was just a lot better at sounding convincing. Manufacturing isn't completely gone - it's moved to the South because of their less stringent union laws and better logistics. You see it with Boeing opening its new plant in the South instead of expanding its Seattle facility - whether it's another country or another state, companies will open factories where they can make things cheaply and transport things easily and cheaply.

 

The advantages of outsourcing to China have disappeared - transport costs have risen, labor costs have risen, and there's a worker shortage in coastal China where all the exports are. Most companies are expanding in China these days to serve the Chinese market, since their consumers have a lot of savings to spend (and like super-flashy, dependable Western brands). There is no other country on earth with the infrastructure (India has crap infrastructure and crappier regulators) and the sheer amount of people to make things as dirt cheap as China, so we could be seeing some manufacturing move back to North America.

 

Why do I say North America? Because the United States is not the only game in town. Mexico has lower labor costs and is about to undergo some serious market reform. Canada has a well-educated workforce, and the automakers have perfected the art of just-in-time delivery to the United States. It's sort of like how the energy industry places those ads saying that they provide millions of jobs in 'North America' - that's because they're exploiting the Canadian oil sands and the North Dakota shale formations.

 

The President does not actually have much power. Congress is where the real work gets done, and since Congress has been reduced to a bunch of talking heads fighting on social issues and refusing to compromise on any sort of economic issue, then nothing will get done. (It was like this in the first two years as well, because the Blue Dog conservative Democrats were too worried about losing their seats to actually pass meaningful reforms.)

 

Our nation's industrial decline has been going on for at least a decade, and it's a problem bigger than any one person or Administration can handle. Until something is done about the Congress's inability to function, we won't get anywhere. And that's a fact.

Glad to see that some people can step back and see the big picture. This decline in America has been in progress for over 30 years. It matters not if the President is Republican or Democrat the problem remains. " Hope and Change", or "Morning in America" were only advertising slogans. The POTUS does NOT set US economic policy. He/she? can only influence it. The problem, as bobtehpanda points out, is the US congresses elected over the last 30+ years. It appears that many posters and the American populace at large look at elections as some sort of sporting event where my "team", D or R wins. In reality no matter which "team" wins the average voter loses and has been for 3 decades. If the economy had continued it's rate of growth from the '50's or so the minimum wage would be $15/hr already , IMO. I've seen people denigrate fast food jobs as "entry level", "hamburger flippers" and such but I've stopped in Wendy's and Hardees in NC and VA where the majority of the workforce has been middle aged or senior citizens. The economy is so screwed up that these people are the laid off or people who have LOST their pensions thanks to those American businesses the US Chamber of Commerce, Fox News, the WSJ, and other media outlets have deified. People trying to make ends meet or supplement their Social Security. That is the shame of America. I don't consider myself a genius or anything but it never ceases to amaze me that some Americans are so blind and ignorant. My rant. Carry on.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Glad to see that some people can step back and see the big picture. This decline in America has been in progress for over 30 years. It matters not if the President is Republican or Democrat the problem remains. " Hope and Change", or "Morning in America" were only advertising slogans. The POTUS does NOT set US economic policy. He/she? can only influence it. The problem, as bobtehpanda points out, is the US congresses elected over the last 30+ years. It appears that many posters and the American populace at large look at elections as some sort of sporting event where my "team", D or R wins. In reality no matter which "team" wins the average voter loses and has been for 3 decades. If the economy had continued it's rate of growth from the '50's or so the minimum wage would be $15/hr already , IMO. I've seen people denigrate fast food jobs as "entry level", "hamburger flippers" and such but I've stopped in Wendy's and Hardees in NC and VA where the majority of the workforce has been middle aged or senior citizens. The economy is so screwed up that these people are the laid off or people who have LOST their pensions thanks to those American businesses the US Chamber of Commerce, Fox News, the WSJ, and other media outlets have deified. People trying to make ends meet or supplement their Social Security. That is the shame of America. I don't consider myself a genius or anything but it never ceases to amaze me that some Americans are so blind and ignorant. My rant. Carry on.

Just because you've seen middle aged people and senior citizens taking on fast food jobs doesn't mean that the status of fast food jobs has somehow changed.  They're still "entry level", low wage jobs.  No other way to put it.  Is there some great change that have made these jobs suddenly high skilled jobs that I missed that justifies $15/hr? It's no secret that due to the downturn in the economy, that plenty of people are doing jobs that they normally wouldn't be doing.

 

 

Politicians have been spewing hopeful rhetoric for years - Obama was just a lot better at sounding convincing. Manufacturing isn't completely gone - it's moved to the South because of their less stringent union laws and better logistics. You see it with Boeing opening its new plant in the South instead of expanding its Seattle facility - whether it's another country or another state, companies will open factories where they can make things cheaply and transport things easily and cheaply.

 

The advantages of outsourcing to China have disappeared - transport costs have risen, labor costs have risen, and there's a worker shortage in coastal China where all the exports are. Most companies are expanding in China these days to serve the Chinese market, since their consumers have a lot of savings to spend (and like super-flashy, dependable Western brands). There is no other country on earth with the infrastructure (India has crap infrastructure and crappier regulators) and the sheer amount of people to make things as dirt cheap as China, so we could be seeing some manufacturing move back to North America.

 

Why do I say North America? Because the United States is not the only game in town. Mexico has lower labor costs and is about to undergo some serious market reform. Canada has a well-educated workforce, and the automakers have perfected the art of just-in-time delivery to the United States. It's sort of like how the energy industry places those ads saying that they provide millions of jobs in 'North America' - that's because they're exploiting the Canadian oil sands and the North Dakota shale formations.

 

The President does not actually have much power. Congress is where the real work gets done, and since Congress has been reduced to a bunch of talking heads fighting on social issues and refusing to compromise on any sort of economic issue, then nothing will get done. (It was like this in the first two years as well, because the Blue Dog conservative Democrats were too worried about losing their seats to actually pass meaningful reforms.)

 

Our nation's industrial decline has been going on for at least a decade, and it's a problem bigger than any one person or Administration can handle. Until something is done about the Congress's inability to function, we won't get anywhere. And that's a fact.

Correct, but manufacturing is nowhere near what it was in the past and yes, some jobs will come back due to the rising costs of transportation and wages in China, but you don't replace millions of jobs overnight, and the real problem has been the loss of jobs being mainly replaced by lower paying service jobs.  How people can suddenly be "outraged" by low paying service jobs when the American consumer asked for that when they kept complaining about the cost of American goods is beyond me.  You get what you pay for.  They wanted cheap goods and now they have them at the cost better paying American jobs, but to turn around and think they they're going to get employers to suddenly compensate them for that loss by raising the wages for low paying jobs is mind boggling.

 

^^ This is simply not something the government can control. As you probably like, we have a free market economy. That means when big American companies want to pay workers as little as possible to maximize their profits, they leave and go abroad. That's the market for you, not the president.

 

 

 

 

Unemployment continues to go down, the markets are at record highs, and the stimulus has proven successful. For a mess Bush created, he's done decently.

Don't kid yourself. Unemployment continues to go down mainly because people are either tired of looking or found a job, but only part-time employment.  If you want to see if unemployment is truly going down, you look at how many jobs are being created each month and that number has been nowhere near where it needs to be to really make a difference in unemployment.

 

The markets were up due to mainly due to speculation, not because the economy was doing so well.  Investors are expecting financial intervention for starters, which has been one reason why they've been hot, but in the past few weeks, the markets have been in the tanks, now that it appears that the economy is slowing down overall.  All indicators had been hinting to the idea that the economy was indeed improving even with the so-so job numbers, with the housing market appearing to turn around, but consumer confidence is still iffy, and the American consumer plays a huge role in how the economy grows, and right now, the consumer is holding back on spending.  

 

And that stimulus? LOL... Don't even kid yourself.  

[R32 3838]

Im so Fu&Cking sick of hearing oh go to college this improve your education that, don't some of you people get that alot of people can't improve their skills because of the simple fact that everyone prefers a f**king college degree for a job, for one the minimum wage is too low, i think 15 dollars is way too much but hey if they get it then oh well, i think 12-13 an hour is perfect for those types of workers, half of you on here are so f'ing stuck up and don't realize that these workers rent goes up on a constant basis, also here in NYC its expensive to live, some people if not all can't afford college period, even if they get student aid (financial aid) it wouldn't help, Education is a joke, why waste thousands of dollars and wind up still working at a small job, i seen people who have very good degrees that work in low paying jobs, bottom line they need a raise, and you wonder why more and more people go on welfare and SSI, they have no choice, 7.25 and hour is not gonna pay your rent period, i bet half of the ones who are talking shit don't even pay rent, they live under their parents roof for free

[Via Garibaldi 8]

lol... What a coherent post...  I just think it's funny... How do I pay my rent? Let me go work at a low wage McDonald's then cry that I can't afford to pay my bills.  Ya think...

[Orion VII 4 Life]

lol... What a coherent post... I just think it's funny... How do I pay my rent? Let me go work at a low wage McDonald's then cry that I can't afford to pay my bills. Ya think...

Aaaa-greed. +100000

[realizm]

 

 

Im so Fu&Cking sick of hearing oh go to college this improve your education that, don't some of you people get that alot of people can't improve their skills because of the simple fact that everyone prefers a f**king college degree for a job, for one the minimum wage is too low, i think 15 dollars is way too much but hey if they get it then oh well, i think 12-13 an hour is perfect for those types of workers, half of you on here are so f'ing stuck up and don't realize that these workers rent goes up on a constant basis, also here in NYC its expensive to live, some people if not all can't afford college period, even if they get student aid (financial aid) it wouldn't help, Education is a joke, why waste thousands of dollars and wind up still working at a small job, i seen people who have very good degrees that work in low paying jobs, bottom line they need a raise, and you wonder why more and more people go on welfare and SSI, they have no choice, 7.25 and hour is not gonna pay your rent period, i bet half of the ones who are talking shit don't even pay rent, they live under their parents roof for free

lol... What a coherent post...  I just think it's funny... How do I pay my rent? Let me go work at a low wage McDonald's then cry that I can't afford to pay my bills.  Ya think...

 

Aaaa-greed. +100000

 

 

 

 

OK yeah but after musing through his post what R32 3838 is saying is that many people (as I was telling you) of the poor working class are going to have a difficult time breaking into the middle income bracket and the only way to do it (legally that is) is to obtain a higher education.

 

Reasons being that tuition costs and real estate valuesare skyrocketing against a stagnant minimum wage. In order for people of low income to receive grants for full coverage of tuition costs from state and federal must be going to school 3/4 or full time. Which will be a difficult ordeal because if they are on low income, forced to work two minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, that means that many times they have to go to school full time while working full time (for pennies at that) and barely making the rent at that on top of all this, with ever higher costs of rent.

 

People who are already born into middle class families don't have to fight as hard like this simply to make ends meet and obtain a college degree according to what's hot in the job market they are fortunate. But those in the low income bracket have huge challenges and obstacles to meet for the aforementioned reasons. Many can do it at greats costs and personal pains (lack of sleep, sometimes they literally starve their way through college) and others simply cannot handle the challenge and end up stuck in a vicious cycle.

 

R32 3838 sees that as well as myself, hence the comment he posted in so many words that you are both now responding to. Hope that clarifies things.

[Trainmaster5]

Just because you've seen middle aged people and senior citizens taking on fast food jobs doesn't mean that the status of fast food jobs has somehow changed.  They're still "entry level", low wage jobs.  No other way to put it.  Is there some great change that have made these jobs suddenly high skilled jobs that I missed that justifies $15/hr? It's no secret that due to the downturn in the economy, that plenty of people are doing jobs that they normally wouldn't be doing.

My argument is that the minimum wage should be higher than what it is today. Doesn't matter if the worker is 18 or 60 in my opinion.

[Roadcruiser1]

These people are lucky they have a job. If they want more money then they should be in some University. A job at a fast food joint is just to support high school kids going through college not for adults in their 40's..........

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My argument is that the minimum wage should be higher than what it is today. Doesn't matter if the worker is 18 or 60 in my opinion.

I can agree with that, but let's not go overboard here.  I think $9.00 is sufficient enough.  Wages that are too high particularly for low wage labor will make it hard for employers to make ends meet, which will just mean higher unemployment, as there will be fewer jobs.  Companies are already holding off on hiring due to Obamacare coming next year so you already have a slow jobs market.

 

 

 

 

OK yeah but after musing through his post what R32 3838 is saying is that many people (as I was telling you) of the poor working class are going to have a difficult time breaking into the middle income bracket and the only way to do it (legally that is) is to obtain a higher education.

 

Reasons being that tuition costs and real estate valuesare skyrocketing against a stagnant minimum wage. In order for people of low income to receive grants for full coverage of tuition costs from state and federal must be going to school 3/4 or full time. Which will be a difficult ordeal because if they are on low income, forced to work two minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, that means that many times they have to go to school full time while working full time (for pennies at that) and barely making the rent at that on top of all this, with ever higher costs of rent.

 

People who are already born into middle class families don't have to fight as hard like this simply to make ends meet and obtain a college degree according to what's hot in the job market they are fortunate. But those in the low income bracket have huge challenges and obstacles to meet for the aforementioned reasons. Many can do it at greats costs and personal pains (lack of sleep, sometimes they literally starve their way through college) and others simply cannot handle the challenge and end up stuck in a vicious cycle.

 

R32 3838 sees that as well as myself, hence the comment he posted in so many words that you are both now responding to. Hope that clarifies things.

Nobody said it was easy but that's the way the cookie crumbles.   You have to make the best out of your opportunities.  I was born into a middle class family but certainly didn't rely on my parents to get through college.  My mom helped out when I asked her, but we had an agreement that I wanted to go to college for myself and therefore I took on the responsibility financially for that.  Now she helped me with things here and there mainly paperwork or if I needed her to send me something or pay for something she would, but I pretty much had my own money for my expenses.  I got some loans (I wasn't eligible for much due to my parents incomes but I got what I could).  The rest was mainly private loans, along with my own money.  My dad was also willing to give me money if needed, but to be honest, I got by just fine with my own money for the most part and yes it was hard work, but what I learned was the importance of being independent.  No one is going to give you anything in life.  You have to work for it.

 

I knew what I wanted to do, knew that I wanted to go to a private university for a little while in Europe (which would be more expensive) and I got through that too.  That cost was about $20,000 for one semester alone, but I got the money for it.  A small amount for my U.S. university, private loans, my own money and that was it, but the point is that it can be done.  Yes, I came from a middle class family, but I don't think that my parents spoiled me.  Students have the option of going to CUNY schools which are certainly still reasonable.  The key is good grades and going and doing the research to get the grants and scholarships.