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Via Garibaldi 8

Fast-food workers begin strikes across U.S. over wages

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The problem is that college tuition rises are outpacing inflation these days - median yearly tuition is now over 40k, and that doesnt include books, housing, and food.

 

there's also a whole bunch of cheap for-profit colleges whose degrees aren't worth anything or have no accreditation in their field, so people eager to spend for an education need to watch out as well.

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The problem is that college tuition rises are outpacing inflation these days - median yearly tuition is now over 40k, and that doesnt include books, housing, and food.

 

there's also a whole bunch of cheap for-profit colleges whose degrees aren't worth anything or have no accreditation in their field, so people eager to spend for an education need to watch out as well.

There's also the option of doing a 2 year degree or skipping college completely if the person knows what they want to do with themselves.

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The problem is that college tuition rises are outpacing inflation these days - median yearly tuition is now over 40k, and that doesnt include books, housing, and food.

 

there's also a whole bunch of cheap for-profit colleges whose degrees aren't worth anything or have no accreditation in their field, so people eager to spend for an education need to watch out as well.

Yeah people need to watch out for schools such as TCI or ITT, they try to rush you in and pressure you to take loans that will take years to pay back, putting one into unsustainable levels of debt. With so called degrees that are not recognized in major fields. ITT Tech recently went through a controversy where it was discovered that they did widespread grade inflation to continue to qualify for FASLA contributions from the US Department of Education. In fact in recent years they settled a lawsuit with the State of California for $730,000 dollars.

 

Best for inspiring college students in NYC to stick with CUNY.

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Yeah people need to watch out for schools such as TCI or ITT, they try to rush you in and pressure you to take loans that will take years to pay back, putting one into unsustainable levels of debt. With so called degrees that are not recognized in major fields. ITT Tech recently went through a controversy where it was discovered that they did widespread grade inflation to continue to qualify for FASLA contributions from the US Department of Education. In fact in recent years they settled a lawsuit with the State of California for $730,000 dollars.

 

Best for inspiring college students in NYC to stick with CUNY.

Those trade schools are a major risk. You'll likely fulfill your requirements, but good luck finding an employer afterwards. You will be shit out of luck more likely than not.

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I think wages in general need to go up.  It seems like anyone who isn't an exec lately is underpaid.  I don't care how the company is 'making ends meet' when the vast majority are reporting high profits.  Fact of the matter is cost of living in general is going up, the amount of work one person has to do at their job is doubling.  Anyone who says they aren't doing the work of two or more people is either lying or lucky.  Also for those of you who use the school excuse;  forget school.  Find a way to get work experience.  There are tons of people going through school who can't get jobs because most if not all companies seem to want people that can hit the ground running.  In that same token, isn't education quality on a decline in schools these days? I don't wanna pay money to sit in a class room being taught by someone who doesn't know their shit or how to properly teach it if I'm better of reading books, taking a few side jobs off craigslist and learning it better that way.  Hell some of the teachers seem like they don't even care if they are doing it right.  I've seen that in schools too.  I know people who don't have that paper; they are self taught and they can do a job better than someone that's been in a class room for years or people who have multiple degrees.

 

I've been in IT for 7 years.  I don't have a degree.  All i hear when I interview is "Do you have experience with...".  I've had maybe two out of every 16 job interviews i've done actually give two shits about schooling.  IT IMO is a skilled trade and I'm seeing appalling numbers like 10-15 an hour; job requirements like having a car and being willing to wear and tear it in the CT/NY area (keep in mind this is 10-15/hr i've seen)...no mileage reimbursement...no toll reimbursement...certainly no benefits and your status is contractor. So OT Is usually straight or even no extra pay and sometimes they make it mandatory.  I don't believe CEOs are struggling to make ends meet. I refuse to believe it.  It's pure greed, especially when the company turns out record profits each and every year during a recession.  McDonalds can afford the wage increase.  Shit in the pan for them.  A lot of these companies can afford to pay their workers more across the board no matter what their title is and I believe it's deserved.  Every person who wakes up in the morning to drag themselves to a job daily deserves a wage they can live on no matter what the job is.  That's what this is about and I agree with it.  

Edited by Urbanfortitude
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I think if i come in to work every day, show I know what I'm doing and make the effort to put out consistent good performance that I should be paid enough to make my rent.  I think anyone who does the same should be too.  I'm almost getting the sense that people think fast food workers are like the scum of the earth or something.  Like they don't deserve a decent living.  They aren't the only ones out there working for minimum wage to deal with the thankless public.  Which is why I'm expanding the picture.  This problem flies across across a much bigger board.

 

I worked in home care.  You literally can spend 10-16 hours a day to be a care giver to a total stranger; feeding & bathing them in the case of disabilities of the physical variety.  Putting up with their fits of rage, because people who can't take care of themselves may do just that, and sustaining actual injuries  Pay wages for those who did that averaged around 7.15/hr.   Jobs like these take actual effort, take actual patience and the ability to think on your feet.  I hardly think any of that is something that comes easy.  The protesters are asking for livable wages and the ability to take care of themselves if they get sick, not cushy bonuses and office space.

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I think if i come in to work every day, show I know what I'm doing and make the effort to put out consistent good performance that I should be paid enough to make my rent.  I think anyone who does the same should be too.  I'm almost getting the sense that people think fast food workers are like the scum of the earth or something.  Like they don't deserve a decent living.  They aren't the only ones out there working for minimum wage to deal with the thankless public.  Which is why I'm expanding the picture.  This problem flies across across a much bigger board.

 

I worked in home care.  You literally can spend 10-16 hours a day to be a care giver to a total stranger; feeding & bathing them in the case of disabilities of the physical variety.  Putting up with their fits of rage, because people who can't take care of themselves may do just that, and sustaining actual injuries  Pay wages for those who did that averaged around 7.15/hr.   Jobs like these take actual effort, take actual patience and the ability to think on your feet.  I hardly think any of that is something that comes easy.  The protesters are asking for livable wages and the ability to take care of themselves if they get sick, not cushy bonuses and office space.

Well a lot of people work hard, even folks like myself that have managerial jobs in the office with higher salaries.  I work 40+ hour weeks on a regular basis and there is no overtime here.  Granted I do get performance bonuses and a decent salary, but it isn't all peaches and cream for us either.  Since I run a department, it's understood that I don't have the usual 9 - 5 job and do what I have to in order to keep the clients happy and my department profitable.  Everybody is working more for less these days.  It's either that or you leave and let someone else take your job who would gladly do so without all of the b*tching and moaning I may add.

 

The point is if McDonald's decided tomorrow to pay those workers $15 an hour, they're going to have to raise prices and who will that affect? The workers because at that rate, someone is going to be cut to make up for the higher salaries.  Profits may also be less because of the higher costs for products to cover those salaries, so this is not such an easy thing.  McDonald's has to answer to its shareholders who buy shares of the company with the expectation of them delivering, and delivering means more profits and growth, not more overhead costs and slumping sales because slumping sales leads to locations closing, workers being laid off and more consolidation.  If the workers aren't happy they can find jobs that pay more but that would require them to obtain actual skills that they clearly don't have.

 

It's not about them being scum or not deserving.  It's about the amount of skills that they don't possess.  I go back to my original question which I notice no one here has answered, which is the following:

 

If fast-food workers are going to be paid $15.00/hr working a low-skill job, what about everyone else? A person in my situation (Senior Managerial position) earns on average 70 -100k a year, so what would happen to our salaries? We work hard too and based on what we "deserve" maybe our salaries should be $140 - 200k a year, but I don't think my boss could afford to pay me that plus benefits and performance bonuses.  

 

For all of the McDonald's out here, there are a ton of small businesses trying to make ends meet and these are the companies that get killed with these sorts of demands.

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I've been in IT for 7 years.  I don't have a degree.  All i hear when I interview is "Do you have experience with...".  I've had maybe two out of every 16 job interviews i've done actually give two shits about schooling.  IT IMO is a skilled trade and I'm seeing appalling numbers like 10-15 an hour; job requirements like having a car and being willing to wear and tear it in the CT/NY area (keep in mind this is 10-15/hr i've seen)...no mileage reimbursement...no toll reimbursement...certainly no benefits and your status is contractor. So OT Is usually straight or even no extra pay and sometimes they make it mandatory.  I don't believe CEOs are struggling to make ends meet. I refuse to believe it.  It's pure greed, especially when the company turns out record profits each and every year during a recession.  McDonalds can afford the wage increase.  Shit in the pan for them.  A lot of these companies can afford to pay their workers more across the board no matter what their title is and I believe it's deserved.  Every person who wakes up in the morning to drag themselves to a job daily deserves a wage they can live on no matter what the job is.  That's what this is about and I agree with it.

 

I'm level three helpdesk tech for the record (A+, Net + and MCTS so far) and it took me three years of survival in the IT field to do it. I'm confirming what you've said as follows:

 

 

Well, what you "deserve" and what you should be paid are two different things. Waking up and going to work doesn't entitle you to anything.

The IT field is unstable in the sense that the IT firms take the actual positions offered by private companies then hire IT professionals on contract which I detest. The big companies in need of staffing their IT departments don't want to pay the deserved salaries or healthcare costs, and on top of that, the wages offered by the private employers they provide staffing for they sometimes slice by half. This means that urbanfortitude as a fellow computer tech can have 7 years of experience but he really should be be entitled to making $30 dollars an hr *not* $15 dollars an hour. And a bachelors in computer science just doesn't cut it.

 

I've seen techs I've worked alongside with me who has 20 years of experience only getting paid only $15 - $16 dollars an hour while I'm getting paid $25 dollars an hour for the same contract.

 

It's all contracts which provides no job security or health insurance benefits in many cases. I have my insurance plan but it is independant of my IT firms which I am employed with.

 

It's a game brother. In case you are wondering why I am seeking a bachelors in nursing and leaving the field for good into the healthcare field, excellent pay, job security, excellent benefits. Which will be done. 80K easy in three years flat after I complete the career transition. Just as you said you work hard towards your financial gains, hey I don't just talk the talk I walk the walk. Glad we see eye to eye on that one concerning work ethics.

 

FYI, It doesn't change the fact that project managers (such as yourself which is why I see the source of your perspective here) which us IT professionals work for are ripping us off by dodging direct hire by hiring IT staffing firms so we don't get the full salaries or the health benefits.

 

Nothing personal against you, take it with a grain of salt.

 

 

It's not about them being scum or not deserving.  It's about the amount of skills that they don't possess.  I go back to my original question which I notice no one here has answered, which is the following:

And that's your answer.

Edited by realizm

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I'm level three helpdesk tech for the record (A+, Net + and MCTS so far) and it took me three years of survival in the IT field to do it. I'm confirming what you've said as follows:

 

 

The IT field is unstable in the sense that the IT firms take the actual positions offered by private companies then hire IT professionals on contract which I detest. The big companies in need of staffing their IT departments don't want to pay the deserved salaries or healthcare costs, and on top of that, the wages offered by the private employers they provide staffing for they sometimes slice by half. This means that urbanfortitude as a fellow computer tech can have 7 years of experience but he really should be be entitled to making $30 dollars an hr *not* $15 dollars an hour. And a bachelors in computer science just doesn't cut it.

 

I've seen techs I've worked alongside with me who has 20 years of experience only getting paid only $15 - $16 dollars an hour while I'm getting paid $25 dollars an hour for the same contract.

 

It's all contracts which provides no job security or health insurance benefits in many cases. I have my insurance plan but it is independant of my IT firms which I am employed with.

 

It's a game brother. In case you are wondering why I am seeking a bachelors in nursing and leaving the field for good into the healthcare field, excellent pay, job security, excellent benefits. Which will be done. 80K easy in three years flat after I complete the career transition. Just as you said you work hard towards your financial gains, hey I don't just talk the talk I walk the walk. Glad we see eye to eye on that one concerning work ethics.

 

FYI, It doesn't change the fact that project managers (such as yourself which is why I see the source of your perspective here) which us IT professionals work for are ripping us off by dodging direct hire by hiring IT staffing firms so we don't get the full salaries or the health benefits.

 

Nothing personal against you, take it with a grain of salt.

 

 

And that's your answer.

Well the salary situation is something that can be difficult when you're consulting.  I considered going into consulting as a speech pathologist and still may do that since I can earn $90 - 120k a year being multilingual and set my own schedule but it takes time to establish a client base and experience and so on.  Most companies can't hire a speech pathologist to be on staff unless they're paying them a reduced rate so they usually hire them as consultants, this way they don't have to pay benefits.  That's the thing I'm getting at.  It's happening in skilled jobs and you have IT guys making $15 - 16/hr which is certainly low.  Do you seriously think that someone working at a fast-food place should be getting the same salary as an IT tech? I certainly don't.  The skills required to be an IT tech don't even compare to someone working at McDonald's, and to be honest, most of them at those sorts of places don't know their head from their @ss which is usually why they end up at places like that in the first place, unless they're college students, retirees looking to supplement their income, or someone who has been unemployed and hasn't be able to get back into their field.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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If the minimum wage is raised then everyone benefits from the food service workers to the IT professionals, to nurses and project managers. In fact your salary will be affected for the better.

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If the minimum wage is raised then everyone benefits from the food service workers to the IT professionals, to nurses and project managers. In fact your salary will be affected for the better.

I'm not so sure about that to be honest.  With Obamacare coming in, companies are already saying that they either will cut back on hiring or will take the penalty because they simply can't afford the healthcare costs, so having the minimum wage increased could have a similar impact.

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I hear you on this point. Catch 22. 

 

Good point will have to muse on this one, because yes that is a real possibility.

Edited by realizm

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If the wages go up the price of goods and services go up. Soon the wages will again be too low. Basic macroeconomics folks. You have to strike an equilibrium. The problem is, areas with higher costs of living (like New York) get no advantage in the minimum wage because of the federal guidelines and Albany is the most inept government since the government of James Callaghan (look it up). 

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If the wages go up the price of goods and services go up. Soon the wages will again be too low. Basic macroeconomics folks. You have to strike an equilibrium. The problem is, areas with higher costs of living (like New York) get no advantage in the minimum wage because of the federal guidelines and Albany is the most inept government since the government of James Callaghan (look it up). 

And that's precisely my point, and people that work at McDonald's and those other holes in the wall are the ones that would feel the pain because they are the ones that would likely eat that fast-food garbage, so they would get a raise only to see it go right back in food or some other service.

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And that's precisely my point, and people that work at McDonald's and those other holes in the wall are the ones that would feel the pain because they are the ones that would likely eat that fast-food garbage, so they would get a raise only to see it go right back in food or some other service.

 

This is not even coherent; what IS your point?

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If the wages go up the price of goods and services go up. Soon the wages will again be too low. Basic macroeconomics folks. You have to strike an equilibrium. The problem is, areas with higher costs of living (like New York) get no advantage in the minimum wage because of the federal guidelines and Albany is the most inept government since the government of James Callaghan (look it up).

Now you opened up a can of worms. Because now we are touching upon the mechanics behind inflation.

 

The only ways apparently to fix the problems will be felt by all income classes, poor working class and middle class alike, as measures at wage control, increasing interest rates with borrowing and establishing credit, and reforming fiscal policy by increasing taxes, will have to be imposed and enforced at the state and federal level. On the real estate end if property taxes are increased however the realtors will raise property values in turn landlords will raise the rents, while the banks will raise the mortgage rates. Which again will hurt the wallets of both the poor working and middle class alike. As I was saying with VG8 after some musing on this, catch 22.

 

Admittedly I'm stumped on this because apparently then there is no real solution to the problem. The capitalist model is failing and can be felt worldwide.

 

Hold that thought....

Edited by realizm

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And that's precisely my point, and people that work at McDonald's and those other holes in the wall are the ones that would feel the pain because they are the ones that would likely eat that fast-food garbage, so they would get a raise only to see it go right back in food or some other service.

So then the middle class will have to pay more taxes and pay higher interest rates on borrowing/spending and stop putting themselves in debt from overspending by means of credit, while the poor working class will have to take a hit with wage control policies. Unfortunately. The US treasury will have to find ways to raise the value of the dollar. All of these implementations should, according to financial analysts, reduce the rapid rising rate of inflation.

 

Rent control reforms will meanwhile help out the poor working class perhaps.

 

As far as mortgage rates if the prospective homeowner would have a good credit score that can reduce the costs of mortgage payments in the long run. As I was concluding with Tokkemon, we all have to suffer then.

 

Time to cut up those credit cards sir.

Edited by realizm

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Inflation is not very high by historical standards, and in any case deflation is a bigger risk to the economy (e.g., Japan's stagnant growth in the 90's and 2000s.)

 

The ideal way to boost general welfare would be to reduce costs for education and health expenses, since those costs are higher than in all OECD countries on a per-person basis (private and public), wih very little to show for it. The nation's high auto ownership also plays a role - we have one of the highest, if not the highest car per capita rates in the world, and being car-free in the US was estimated to save $9k a year, and up to $16k in the New York metro area. So the issue is a lot more complicated than the wages; it's also about the cost of living as well.

 

Excessive parking requirements and restrictive zoning also hinders the development of affordable housing near transit, but that's another story for aanother day.

 

(The other part of it is that a higher minimum wage helps downstate New Yorkers but hurts Iowans, so it needs to be more of a micromanaged thing.)

Edited by bobtehpanda

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Inflation is not very high by historical standards, and in any case deflation is a bigger risk to the economy (e.g., Japan's stagnant growth in the 90's and 2000s.)

 

The ideal way to boost general welfare would be to reduce costs for education and health expenses, since those costs are higher than in all OECD countries on a per-person basis (private and public), wih very little to show for it. The nation's high auto ownership also plays a role - we have one of the highest, if not the highest car per capita rates in the world, and being car-free in the US was estimated to save $9k a year, and up to $16k in the New York metro area. So the issue is a lot more complicated than the wages; it's also about the cost of living as well.

 

Excessive parking requirements and restrictive zoning also hinders the development of affordable housing near transit, but that's another story for aanother day.

 

(The other part of it is that a higher minimum wage helps downstate New Yorkers but hurts Iowans, so it needs to be more of a micromanaged thing.)

 

Totally agree with this.

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Here is my take on it 

 

Do I think $15 is to much? Yes, but do I also think that the minimum wage is way to low other states in U.S? also yes, I mean for god sake minimum wage NY in 1968 was $1.60 an hour, now that may not be to much for you guys but if you controverted to 2013 dollars is around $10.74 an hour.I blame both party on this, the people that work at these fast food chains because of there act of desperation to find work, you think some of these people like working at these low waged jobs? hell no but they have no choice because they have to pay the bills other wise you would be on the street, and the company's the payed them peanuts and meanwhile they are making record profits on Crappy foods the america loves,yuck but '''AM Loving it'' , even if they raise the wage the company's will do what they can to not let that happen because just like heroin addict they are addicted to much money and they well do whatever they can to support there habits, even if it screw there working in the ass. 

Edited by MTARegional Bus

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That's how I see it as a result of this discussion.

 

The ultimate problem with this issue stems from the rapidly rising rate of inflation. I'm unsure if this problem which fell into a state of negligence over the years can even be repaired. The prospects of that ever happening are gloomy, now that we are locked into a global economy which faces rising costs of the essentials in general.  The entire globe is feeling the pain. A total wake up call and a serious reality check particularly for all of us in our generation. All we as individuals can do is to see to it we prepare ourselves so that each of us here do not go rockbottom with the next pending recession. 

 

The governments and the politicians and world leaders within these sovereignties,  the major banks and major corporations around the world only wish to seek advantage for themselves as entities, so basically we must adapt and look out for ourselves then, regardless of economic class. It is what it is, it's a dog eat dog world out there, and not everything is under our control in terms of the world stage.  However we can indeed keep our individual economic situation under control.......

 

......On our parts by saving our money, cut spending and budget, and see to it we are established in traditional fields either by involving ourselves in skilled trades or/and seeking a secondary education so as to gain the credentials needed to succeed and gain financial security to get the things we want and get that slice of American apple pie, after that to sustain ourselves economically by being diligent as to secure our financial assets and remain competitive in whatever field we choose to work in.

Edited by realizm

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It kind of difficult saving money in this situation since inflation is rising an alarming rate,Thanks oil company's, Congress has to do something otherwise prepare for the next recession.but then again Washington has other problems like being lazy, like a certain senators who was playing a poker game on his phone during the Syria debate, am I right big guy ^_^

 

 

 

tumblr_msmvpqNa7t1qzlc1ro1_500.gif

Edited by MTARegional Bus

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Guys, there is no 'rapidly rising rate of inflation'. According to the Labor Department, hourly wages rose 2.2% over the same quarter last year, and inflation rose only 2%. The average hourly workweek rose from 34.4 hours to 34.5 hours, showing that employers may start to see labor shortages and start hiring or extending hours again. It's very slow going, but the economy is doing a lot better than its global peers.

 

Inflation at 2% is actually very good, since this is the Fed's explicit target for inflation. It is historically very low - much better than the stagflation of the '70s or the inflation during the boom years. You don't want stagnant inflation or outright deflation, since that would mean that employers would have to effectively pay more in 'real' wages for the same amount of productivity, limiting their R&D or new hiring (as has happened in Japan, where almost all young workers are being hired as contract temps with no benefits, skill levels and employment experience be damned).

 

We may actually see inflation fall even further. China and India are seeing reduced rates of growth compared to historical norms (7% and 5% respectively, vs. their double digit growth for the past decade), and China in particular is moving towards a consumption based model. As this shift occurs, their demand for commodities is falling, and with very little growth in demand from an America that has found new sources of gas and minerals and a Europe that has been in crisis for the better part of three or four years, commodity prices are set to fall (and take emerging markets' growth rates with them.) With slowing emerging markets and the majority of developed countries in crisis besides America and Japan, exports will not see spectacular growth.

 

With QE2 easing off as the recovery progresses, you may also see the dollar strengthen against other currencies, causing a credit crisis in some emerging markets and bringing global growth down even further. The dollar strengthening will also hurt exporters who now have to compete with cheaper imports.

 

Free trade deals are currently being negotiated with many Pacific Rim countries and the EU (and these trade deals, unlike the past ones given to our Asian trading partners, will actually lower barriers in the Asian countries for American products). While it will certainly be easier for, say, GM and Ford to export cars to South Korea at reasonable prices, these deals will take a very long time to materialize, and will only make things easier to export (import rules are already lax with the countries involved), and include services such as banking, etc.

 

In short, the global outlook is crap for the next couple of years, and America is doing just fine because everything is relative and in this context, 2.2% growth ain't too shabby.

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