Government shuts down as Congress fails to prevent Funding Bill

[realizm]

LOL... Who else would I be talking about but those getting handouts that are perfectly capable of providing for themselves.  It doesn't necessarily mean poor people either, but those who manipulate and use the system unnecessarily.  There's a big difference between actual NEED and taking from the system because you can.

I've heard some sensational stories of those who made 6 digits who are incarcerated now on federal and state charges of felony tax evasion and extortion from the stealing away from the IRS and/or the investors in the NYSE.

 

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The majority of welfare recipients actually find dependence on public assistance programs offered by the HRA degrading and demoralizing, they would rather work, absolutely. Many do not turn to welfare because they are pathologically dependent on handouts or unusually reluctant to work. That is a myth. Many are forced into it because of unemployment and because many times as I mentioned many times over, are in a vicious cycle of poverty. Many are born into it! Yes here, in the United States!

 

There is no incentive nor gain for lazy people to enroll in welfare because the payments does not not allow families to make ends meet. Parents in poverty and on public assistance found that their family's rent and utilities cost way more than the monthly benefit. I'm talking hundreds of dollars with current real estate market trends.

 

Even for those few who are as of now receiving housing assistance, that leaves only $160 to $200 *monthly* to cover all other monthly expenses, such as transportation, clothing, books for school and hygiene products. Many recipients actually go hungry near the end of the month forcing them into the soup kitchens. To make ends meet, the mothers had to receive income from somewhere else, somehow. Some of this can come from family and friends but most end up seeking jobs that are minimum wage to make ends meet.

 

Now, it's very hard to even qualify for public assistance with the HRA to begin with in New York City, let alone live off it, that's another thing you must realize. Facts and figures added in, the applying recipient has to be practically homeless and destitute or suffering from a disability to qualify.

 

The checks and balances were weighed in. Therefore it's actually very hard to even qualify for PA let alone rip off the HRA once you're in it. Let alone again live off PA and survive the extremely high cost of living in NYC. So tell me again, how this is a handout?

[Roadcruiser1]

Don't be ignorant. The main enemy isn't China. It's the Federal Reserve Bank. It owns more of our nation's debt than China itself. Everyone knows that the bank is criminal. Andrew Jackson warned us about it. That's why he killed the first bank (United States Bank).......

[bobtehpanda]

Don't be ignorant. The main enemy isn't China. It's the Federal Reserve Bank. It owns more of our nation's debt than China itself. Everyone knows that the bank is criminal. Andrew Jackson warned us about it. That's why he killed the first bank (United States Bank).......

 

Yes, and Andrew Jackson's killing of the Second Bank of the United States caused a huge increase in demand for silver and gold that was unquenchable, leading to the Panic of 1837 and a several year-long recession. 343 out of 850 banks in the Union failed, losses in New York alone came up to about $100M in two months, most states defaulted on their bonds, and for several years many people lacked the necessary specie to make everyday payments. Crises like these continually occurred until the Federal Reserve was created, which provided both a lender of last resort for banks to prevent bank runs, and a currency that could be more easily moved around and valued than say, a pretty bar of metal.

 

Killing our central bank would be downright stupid - people don't realize how nasty the financial panics every ten years were.

[Tokkemon]

Can we get back on topic please? This shutdown has nothing to do with China or trade.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Can we get back on topic please? This shutdown has nothing to do with China or trade.

This shut down has to do with many things.  You should do some catching up...

 

I've heard some sensational stories of those who made 6 digits who are incarcerated now on federal and state charges of felony tax evasion and extortion from the stealing away from the IRS and/or the investors in the NYSE.

 

============================================

 

The majority of welfare recipients actually find dependence on public assistance programs offered by the HRA degrading and demoralizing, they would rather work, absolutely. Many do not turn to welfare because they are pathologically dependent on handouts or unusually reluctant to work. That is a myth. Many are forced into it because of unemployment and because many times as I mentioned many times over, are in a vicious cycle of poverty. Many are born into it! Yes here, in the United States!

 

There is no incentive nor gain for lazy people to enroll in welfare because the payments does not not allow families to make ends meet. Parents in poverty and on public assistance found that their family's rent and utilities cost way more than the monthly benefit. I'm talking hundreds of dollars with current real estate market trends.

 

Even for those few who are as of now receiving housing assistance, that leaves only $160 to $200 *monthly* to cover all other monthly expenses, such as transportation, clothing, books for school and hygiene products. Many recipients actually go hungry near the end of the month forcing them into the soup kitchens. To make ends meet, the mothers had to receive income from somewhere else, somehow. Some of this can come from family and friends but most end up seeking jobs that are minimum wage to make ends meet.

 

Now, it's very hard to even qualify for public assistance with the HRA to begin with in New York City, let alone live off it, that's another thing you must realize. Facts and figures added in, the applying recipient has to be practically homeless and destitute or suffering from a disability to qualify.

 

The checks and balances were weighed in. Therefore it's actually very hard to even qualify for PA let alone rip off the HRA once you're in it. Let alone again live off PA and survive the extremely high cost of living in NYC. So tell me again, how this is a handout?

 

 

Alright, let's just say that you weren't insinuating anything prejudice and borderline racist to begin with.

 

To my understanding you are still criticizing those receiving public assistance by essentially equating them to manipulators collecting under false pretenses, unless I'm viewing your reply in a flawed demeanor. I'd say that's still a general statement that is baseless, unless you have evidence other than just your perception.

Awaiting a reply.

Yes, there are many manipulators of the system.  The Democrats help to foster this environment with their "tax the rich" mentality.  Tax the rich to give handouts and make things "equal".  Just look at Bill de Blasio and Obama...

 

 

China's consumers are an extremely superficial bunch who are hyper obsessed with luxury brands. Most of those are German, French, Swiss, British, Italian, etc, and made in their home country. American companies do brisk business in the country (H&M, Walmart, Ford, Apple, etc.), but mostly sell things mad in China. It makes absolutely no financial sense to produce high volumes of low value goods in America and ship it to China. The only reasonable things we could export to China are foodstuffs (because Chinese consumers don't trust domestically produced food) and financial services (but ordinary Chinese can't move money in and out of the country).

 

China also fakes a lot more because it is the biggest country on the planet. Korea has 50 million people. Japan has 120 million. China has 1.2 BILLION people. At this stage in its development cycle, it's normal for developing economies to copy goods, but Chinese companies are innovsting themselves - Lenovo makes very good PCs and laptops, and Huawei makes the most cost-efficient telecoms infrastructure on the market today. Keep in mind that American industry was started by an engineer who copied the plans for British textile mill equipment, so it's not like we have the right to talk about industries built off of fakes.

lol...  H&M is not American. It's Swedish and produces cheap low cost garbage. American companies haven't been able to appeal to a lot of Chinese consumers and some of that is due to cultural differences, but some of it is due to snobbery.  Relating this back to the big picture at hand, this shut down is a big wake up call for the many things that's going wrong with this country.  China is a big reason why this economy continues to struggle as the Obama administration fails to create good paying jobs, takes a soft stance on trade with China and then tries to force Obamacare down the throats of American businesses who are already struggling to compete.  It's downright scary.

 

[LTA1992]

All I have to say is, we have until October 17th to do something. After that point, the USA basically defaults.

[bobtehpanda]

All I have to say is, we have until October 17th to do something. After that point, the USA basically defaults.

Hopefully, Republicans are not so reckless as to actually default and undermine faith in the bedrock of the global financial system (Treasury bonds).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Hopefully, Republicans are not so reckless as to actually default and undermine faith in the bedrock of the global financial system (Treasury bonds).

Again blaming the Republicans.  Just so you know, the Democrats aren't being viewed as the "victims" here at this point, as they haven't been open to negotiation either, so it's both sides at this point feeling the heat.

[realizm]

Yes, there are many manipulators of the system.  The Democrats help to foster this environment with their "tax the rich" mentality.  Tax the rich to give handouts and make things "equal".  Just look at Bill de Blasio and Obama...

 

From what I was reading in the NY Times the other day, in a speech given to prominent civic special interest groups de Blasio argued against denounced the giveaways to the real estate industry, stated his wishes to 're-energize' the labor unions and made the point that that the city’s “affordability crisis” is a serious problem that must be addressed with urgency. Keep in mind that this may be beneficial even for the lower middle class let alone the poor working class.

 

De Blasio sat down with prominent heads in finance, real estate and technology includingthe CEO's of Goldman Sachs and Viacom stating that 'that his brand of liberalism is unapologetic but pragmatic, and can accommodate the value of business in a global city.' and that they 'may not agree, but [that they should] want to work together.' Which is a subtle way of saying that he is not trying to be the enemy but is in favor of a populist city that can overcome the financial problems that is behind the affordability crisis.

 

Lhota responded by calling his statements as absurb, but could not come up with a credible argument as to why.

 

Again, I tend to be politically neutral however in respects to my views from a human rights and societal equality perspective this may be a step in the right direction *if* he carries this out. I'm sure even the middle class is reeling from the out of control real estate rates concerning in particular rent, and are concerned that no reforms in rent control stabilization was never successfully implemented under the current administration. I will be following along with this and so will many others.

[CenSin]

Again blaming the Republicans.  Just so you know, the Democrats aren't being viewed as the "victims" here at this point, as they haven't been open to negotiation either, so it's both sides at this point feeling the heat.

The debt ceiling and government funding bill isn't something that should be used as leverage. It sets a bad precedent. And for the record, it's not all of the Republicans, but just the Tea Party. The Tea Party, which "represents" less than 15% of the US population is right now holding the bill from moving forward so it can ram its demands through. Other Republicans are happy to get this over with cleanly.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The debt ceiling and government funding bill isn't something that should be used as leverage. It sets a bad precedent. And for the record, it's not all of the Republicans, but just the Tea Party. The Tea Party, which "represents" less than 15% of the US population is right now holding the bill from moving forward so it can ram its demands through. Other Republicans are happy to get this over with cleanly.

lol... And the Democrats sure did their job last year of "ramming" their demands through and now they're unwilling to negotiate...

[LTA1992]

Hopefully, Republicans are not so reckless as to actually default and undermine faith in the bedrock of the global financial system (Treasury bonds).

Both sides are equally stubborn. Apparently, the word COMPROMISE has been lost in the sands of time.

[bobtehpanda]

Again blaming the Republicans.  Just so you know, the Democrats aren't being viewed as the "victims" here at this point, as they haven't been open to negotiation either, so it's both sides at this point feeling the heat.

 

The main focus of it has been the Republicans. Ever since 2010, the failure of the Republican leadership to control its backbenchers has had a detrimental effect. Look at how John Boehner was forced to end his negotiations with Obama on a grand deficit bargain a while back.

 

Democrats as of late have been becoming more stubborn as well, but how much of that is actual ideological posturing and how much of it is being fed up by constant games of political chicken is debatable. On the Republican side, it's purely ideological.

 

Both sides are equally stubborn. Apparently, the word COMPROMISE has been lost in the sands of time.

 

I personally blame all the gerrymandered districts. If the Supreme Court hadn't allowed gerrymandering back in the '30s, we wouldn't be having as big of a problem with this radicalization.

[CenSin]

lol... And the Democrats sure did their job last year of "ramming" their demands through and now they're unwilling to negotiate...

I'm not sure "ramming" is the right word. Remind me again how it got through the people, House, Senate, President, and the Court?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not sure "ramming" is the right word. Remind me again how it got through the people, House, Senate, President, and the Court?

What "people" are you referring to?  It was rammed through a Democratic controlled Senate and a President who has supported this plan from the start, who was determined to get it through regardless of what other Americans who disagreed with the plan thought about it.  Those who opposed the bill had no say whatsoever in the matter and that's the real problem here.  That's not democracy in any way shape or form.

[MHV9218]

Both sides are equally stubborn. Apparently, the word COMPROMISE has been lost in the sands of time.

 

No, they aren't. You can't compare the things the Democrats want (not defaulting the entire country's financial system and sending us into a potential recession) with what the Republicans want (getting rid of a healthcare plan created by a Republican backed by Republicans and Democrats and the entire country).

 

lol... And the Democrats sure did their job last year of "ramming" their demands through and now they're unwilling to negotiate...

 

Well that's bullshit. Ramming? Really? Nothing gets done because the Dems can't get ANYTHING done cause the Republicans filibuster and block absolutely everything. What congress are you looking at?

 

Again blaming the Republicans.  Just so you know, the Democrats aren't being viewed as the "victims" here at this point, as they haven't been open to negotiation either, so it's both sides at this point feeling the heat.

 

It's not negotiation. There is no negotiation. The American people voted in favor of this plan and this president. There is no debate.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, they aren't. You can't compare the things the Democrats want (not defaulting the entire country's financial system and sending us into a potential recession) with what the Republicans want (getting rid of a healthcare plan created by a Republican backed by Republicans and Democrats and the entire country).

 

 

Well that's bullshit. Ramming? Really? Nothing gets done because the Dems can't get ANYTHING done cause the Republicans filibuster and block absolutely everything. What congress are you looking at?

 

 

It's not negotiation. There is no negotiation. The American people voted in favor of this plan and this president. There is no debate.

-Osamacare and the healthcare plan put into to place by then governor Mitt Romney are not at all the same.

 

-That's because the Democrats are spending this country into the abyss.  We can't afford Osamacare. 

 

-I sure as heck didn't and millions of other Americans didn't either.  I know this may be hard for you to accept but not all Americans are Democrats.  Plenty of us are Independents, Republicans, Libertarians and so on.

[MHV9218]

-Osamacare and the healthcare plan put into to place by then governor Mitt Romney are not at all the same.

 

-That's because the Democrats are spending this country into the abyss.  We can't afford Osamacare. 

 

-I sure as heck didn't and millions of other Americans didn't either.  I know this may be hard for you to accept but not all Americans are Democrats.  Plenty of us are Independents, Republicans, Libertarians and so on.

 

Osamacare? Jesus f**k, it's like I'm talking to Glenn Beck. I'm not even to argue with you. You've clearly gone totally off the deep end, almost sad considering you used to be vaguely reasonable... I'm done.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Osamacare? Jesus f**k, it's like I'm talking to Glenn Beck. I'm not even to argue with you. You've clearly gone totally off the deep end, almost sad considering you used to be vaguely reasonable... I'm done.

Yes, Osamacare.  A healthcare plan with a "mandate" is certainly not American in any way shape or form.

[MHV9218]

He was a f**king terrorist who killed thousands of innocent Americans! This is a goddamn health care plan! 

 

If you think these are similar, you have totally lost it. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He was a f**king terrorist who killed thousands of innocent Americans! This is a goddamn health care plan! 

 

If you think these are similar, you have totally lost it. 

This plan represents everything that isn't America just like Osama Bin Laden.

[bobtehpanda]

This plan represents everything that isn't America just like Osama Bin Laden.

 

Is being required to purchase car insurance when registering a car un-American? Is a lender requiring you to purchase home insurance on a mortgaged home un-American? Then why is requiring medical insurance when buying medical care un-American?

 

We're mandated to buy insurance on things we consider necessities already. What makes this any different?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Is being required to purchase car insurance when registering a car un-American? Is a lender requiring you to purchase home insurance on a mortgaged home un-American? Then why is requiring medical insurance when buying medical care un-American?

 

We're mandated to buy insurance on things we consider necessities already. What makes this any different?

You can't put a mandate on something that people can't afford.  That's why they didn't have healthcare coverage in the first place. Hello... 

[Trainmaster5]

It never fails to amaze me that people who claim to have an iota of knowledge of the American political system can justify shutting down the government when they lost the last election. If you lose the popular vote,lose House seats, lose Senate seats, and lose the Presidency, in what country, on what planet, in what alternate reality, does the losing party demand concessions from the victor? I don't care if you love or hate the POTUS, ACA, liberals, conservatives, Dems, Repubs, Seal Team Six, Delta Force, Yankees, Red Sox, Coke or Pepsi the loser dictates nothing. Nunca,Nada, Zilch. Either John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Ted Cruz and company are playing a high stakes game of chicken with Obama, the Senate, and the American people, or they are ignorant of how our system of government works. It's been said that elections have consequences. They seem to have overlooked that maxim while going forward with their "plan". Don't let them fool you. This is not about "Obamacare". It's all about ignoring the will of the electorate. If this gimmick works who is to say civil rights, immigration, or Social Security or Medicare won't be held hostage next? They're lucky I'm not POTUS. If they want to play these banana republic games I'd play along with them. I would line item veto any legislation benefiting their consituents  after warning them. It's too bad Barack Obama isn't like LBJ 'cause Lyndon Johnson would have Speaker Boehner crying, or drinking, 24/7. Obama, Biden, and Reid should let the House crazies "own" the shutdown. Let them own the upcoming USA "default", too Make no mistake, I've seen some bone-headed Democrats in my day but these House bozos are one step from being anti-American in my book. Just my opinion though. Carry on.

[CenSin]

That's not democracy in any way shape or form.

I guess this addresses your post:

It never fails to amaze me that people who claim to have an iota of knowledge of the American political system can justify shutting down the government when they lost the last election. If you lose the popular vote,lose House seats, lose Senate seats, and lose the Presidency, in what country, on what planet, in what alternate reality, does the losing party demand concessions from the victor? I don't care if you love or hate the POTUS, ACA, liberals, conservatives, Dems, Repubs, Seal Team Six, Delta Force, Yankees, Red Sox, Coke or Pepsi the loser dictates nothing. Nunca,Nada, Zilch. Either John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Ted Cruz and company are playing a high stakes game of chicken with Obama, the Senate, and the American people, or they are ignorant of how our system of government works. It's been said that elections have consequences. They seem to have overlooked that maxim while going forward with their "plan". Don't let them fool you. This is not about "Obamacare". It's all about ignoring the will of the electorate. If this gimmick works who is to say civil rights, immigration, or Social Security or Medicare won't be held hostage next? They're lucky I'm not POTUS. If they want to play these banana republic games I'd play along with them. I would line item veto any legislation benefiting their consituents  after warning them. It's too bad Barack Obama isn't like LBJ 'cause Lyndon Johnson would have Speaker Boehner crying, or drinking, 24/7. Obama, Biden, and Reid should let the House crazies "own" the shutdown. Let them own the upcoming USA "default", too Make no mistake, I've seen some bone-headed Democrats in my day but these House bozos are one step from being anti-American in my book. Just my opinion though. Carry on.

The elections happened, and the people who are in the government just happened to be able to pass Obamacare. Now a vocal minority is threatening a default over Obamacare (which it couldn't stop the first time because Americans didn't vote enough of them into office). This is democracy in action, and frankly the Tea Party needs to suck it up. They already have an unfair advantage by having more representatives per person than Democrats.