Unification of Express Bus Designations

[Q43LTD]

Lake Success sounds like an area where a bunch of well off ppl. reside in... I'll go as far as to say I think that had a small part with it being on the destination signage as well.... Had the area been named lake failure or lake overflow (lol) or something another, Floral Park probably would've been on the express bus destination signage instead....

 

I still don't see how NST is technically in floral park, when the neighborhood of floral park is well south of NST.... If Glen Oaks is a subsection of Floral park, then that would be news to me.... While I didn't think NST was in Glen Oaks, I thought NST was its own neighborhood & had its own zipcode.....

 

How big a neighborhood is Floral park then? What are the (accepted) boundaries....

I would say anything east of Little Neck Pkwy, south of the Grand Central (while in Queens).

[bobtehpanda]

Lake Success sounds like an area where a bunch of well off ppl. reside in... I'll go as far as to say I think that had a small part with it being on the destination signage as well.... Had the area been named lake failure or lake overflow (lol) or something another, Floral Park probably would've been on the express bus destination signage instead....

 

I still don't see how NST is technically in floral park, when the neighborhood of floral park is well south of NST.... If Glen Oaks is a subsection of Floral park, then that would be news to me.... While I didn't think NST was in Glen Oaks, I thought NST was its own neighborhood & had its own zipcode.....

 

How big a neighborhood is Floral park then? What are the (accepted) boundaries....

 

As a resident of that general area, I've had mail addressed to Glen Oaks, Floral Park, Little Neck, and Bellerose.

 

At this point I've given up trying to figure it out.

[QM1to6Ave]

As a resident of that general area, I've had mail addressed to Glen Oaks, Floral Park, Little Neck, and Bellerose.

 

At this point I've given up trying to figure it out.

I second that--so many parts of Queens are part of multiple neighborhoods and can have mail sent to 5 different neighborhoods and still have it arrive properly (as opposed to when people mail something to, say, 65th road instead of avenue, or put dashes in the wrong places in the address). 

[B35 via Church]

I would say anything east of Little Neck Pkwy, south of the Grand Central (while in Queens).

I concur with the east/west border...

It's the north/south boundaries that I haven't a clue as to how much land/space Floral park encompasses....

 

As a resident of that general area, I've had mail addressed to Glen Oaks, Floral Park, Little Neck, and Bellerose.

 

At this point I've given up trying to figure it out.

Can't say I blame you, and you're a resident of eastern Queens.....

-----------------------------

 

I got another question for the 2 (well 3 of you, if QM1 wants to chime in)....

 

Bellerose LIRR station... Floral Park LIRR station.... Both about 1/2 mile away from each other....

I've been wondering about this for years... Just where in the heck is Bellerose exactly?

 

How is it that the Braddock Q1's got the signage up as destined to end at "Bellerose 243 st", but....

- the LIRR Bellerose station is well south of Jamaica av & east of Belmont park (meaning, the station is physically in Nassau county) ...

- the MTA got Bellerose plastered on the Queens bus map b/w Hillside & Union Tpke (east of LNP), and

- [bellerose Floral Park] & [Floral Park] are posted on some of these online maps (like google maps) as being two totally separate areas

All 4 of these being listed, it's too great a discrepancy.....

 

I mean here in Brooklyn, there's the great crown heights/east flatbush borderline debate (i.e., is kings county in east flatbush or crown heights) & just how large are the neighborhoods of Midwood & Flatlands, respectively, are (lol).... But the confusion of where what neighborhoods are said to be where in eastern Queens, takes the cake AFAIC....

[bobtehpanda]

I concur with the east/west border...

It's the north/south boundaries that I haven't a clue as to how much land/space Floral park encompasses....

 

Can't say I blame you, and you're a resident of eastern Queens.....

-----------------------------

 

I got another question for the 2 (well 3 of you, if QM1 wants to chime in)....

 

Bellerose LIRR station... Floral Park LIRR station.... Both about 1/2 mile away from each other....

I've been wondering about this for years... Just where in the heck is Bellerose exactly?

 

How is it that the Braddock Q1's got the signage up as destined to end at "Bellerose 243 st", but....

- the LIRR Bellerose station is well south of Jamaica av & east of Belmont park (meaning, the station is physically in Nassau county) ...

- the MTA got Bellerose plastered on the Queens bus map b/w Hillside & Union Tpke (east of LNP), and

- [bellerose Floral Park] & [Floral Park] are posted on some of these online maps (like google maps) as being two totally separate areas

All 4 of these being listed, it's too great a discrepancy.....

 

I mean here in Brooklyn, there's the great crown heights/east flatbush borderline debate (i.e., is kings county in east flatbush or crown heights) & just how large are the neighborhoods of Midwood & Flatlands, respectively, are (lol).... But the confusion of where what neighborhoods are said to be where in eastern Queens, takes the cake AFAIC....

 

Floral Park is even more confusing than it should be, because the area stretches over the border into Nassau (and the Village of Floral Park, but let's not even go there).

 

I imagine Bellerose to be Cross Island to the west, Hillside to the north, the Main Line to the south, and LNP to the east. The only area around there truly set in stone is Glen Oaks - that's bounded by Union, Lakeville, and the GCP.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here's my question... Since the QM6 crosses into Lake Success briefly while heading to the North Shore Towers, do any people from Long Island use it? I'm almost certain that those damn people in South Yonkers get on our Riverdale express buses at the city border...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Here's my question... Since the QM6 crosses into Lake Success briefly while heading to the North Shore Towers, do any people from Long Island use it? I'm almost certain that those damn people in South Yonkers get on our Riverdale express buses at the city border...

I would say 3 people per 4 trips during the rush hours and 1 per 5 trips other times. (Might be overdoing the weekday ratio a bit)

What's so bad about South Yonkers? Yes I know its considered a "hood", but if they got the money then they'll pay for it, especially since the BxM4C doesn't cater to them in any way (that's for another discussion).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I would say 3 people per 4 trips during the rush hours and 1 per 5 trips other times. (Might be overdoing the weekday ratio a bit)

What's so bad about South Yonkers? Yes I know its considered a "hood", but if they got the money then they'll pay for it, especially since the BxM4C doesn't cater to them in any way (that's for another discussion).

Not to go off topic but city services should always be geared towards those living in the city.

[Turbo19]

Not to go off topic but city services should always be geared towards those living in the city.

Of course they should, and they are, smart one.

 

In the case of the Bronx-Manhattan routes reaching the city/county line they are only providing service within New York City, the only exception being the BxM3 reaching into Yonkers proper.

 

As for residents of Yonkers utilizing the Bronx and Bronx-Manhattan routes they have every right to, being that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and it's network of service are public services receiving public funds. Furthermore as I've  said in the past such additional ridership may prove to be beneficial, as a higher demand of service generally equates to more benefits for everyone on the routes.

[Vistausss]

I also do wonder where in the heck Bellerose actually is. And why LIRR even calls their station there 'Bellerose' because it seems quite off to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

@Turbo19: If people of South Yonkers have the money for express bus then why don't they just take MNRR instead of utilizing a city service?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Not to go off topic but city services should always be geared towards those living in the city.

You'll still get your seat on the BxM1/BxM2.

[Fresh Pond]

I also do wonder where in the heck Bellerose actually is. And why LIRR even calls their station there 'Bellerose' because it seems quite off to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

@Turbo19: If people of South Yonkers have the money for express bus then why don't they just take MNRR instead of utilizing a city service?

Maybe they don't want to sit on a train...maybe the bus puts them closer to where they have to go

[Turbo19]

I also do wonder where in the heck Bellerose actually is. And why LIRR even calls their station there 'Bellerose' because it seems quite off to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

@Turbo19: If people of South Yonkers have the money for express bus then why don't they just take MNRR instead of utilizing a city service?

In regard to the preliminary statement, the area known as Bellerose Manor, Bellerose, or the Village of Bellerose is mainly in Queens, with a small section of Nassau County being referred to a Bellerose as well.

 

For the secondary statement, In my opinion it shouldn't matter. Sure the Metro North Railroad is geared to provide regional service to those outside of the city's bus network, but if residents outside of New York City can easily access bus routes that are serving only NYC proper than there is nothing wrong with them doing so. As stated the routes are public services open to everyone.

 

 

You'll still get your seat on the BxM1/BxM2.

ROFL, figures that self interest prevails over all else.

 

 

Maybe they don't want to sit on a train...maybe the bus puts them closer to where they have to go

Or stand on a train. Why put up with that crap if the BxM's are providing service at much more frequent intervals.

 

That's all, I'm done here for now.

[Vistausss]

Thanks for the answer about Bellerose! That clears things up a bit. But I still wonder about the location of the LIRR station there... it still seems a bit off to me.

[B35 via Church]

Floral Park is even more confusing than it should be, because the area stretches over the border into Nassau (and the Village of Floral Park, but let's not even go there).

 

I imagine Bellerose to be Cross Island to the west, Hillside to the north, the Main Line to the south, and LNP to the east. The only area around there truly set in stone is Glen Oaks - that's bounded by Union, Lakeville, and the GCP.

Damn, So if that's the case, then the MTA map is way off where the have Bellerose as being.....

As for Glen Oaks, yep, and they wouldn't have it any other way either.... Folks are too old to have to be perturbed with ambiguity.

 

Anyway, good lookin out with this....

 

Here's my question... Since the QM6 crosses into Lake Success briefly while heading to the North Shore Towers, do any people from Long Island use it?

Doubt it.... Highly doubt it.

 

I don't get the sense that LIJ hospital is used as a park & ride for the express bus.... The only other stop (other than inside NST obviously) is the union tpke/lakeville rd stop in that immediate area of Queens, which isn't a highly used stop at all....

 

I'll say this much... there are easily more westchester folks using the riverdale expresses than there are LI-ers using the Queens expresses.... The only express route I think garners (few) usage from LI-ers are those that park over there by the Q30 terminal (LNP/HHE) for the QM5 or the QM8 (the QM3 runs [hell, begins] in that immediate area also, but QM3's don't start seeing pax like that until it hits northern)....

 

But the QM6, I don't think LI-ers utilize that route.....

 

Not to go off topic but city services should always be geared towards those living in the city.

What you say here is reminiscent of a dude that used to post on Rider Diaries/Straphangers named "Dadbo46"; supposed to have been some higher-up with Liberty Lines....

 

He was QUICK to say that Bee line buses don't exist to serve city riders (which is simply flat out bullshit), esp. whenever folks would suggest that Bee line should serve more of the Bronx..... Don't get me wrong, I still think Bee Line is on the ball with the way they run things, but let's see how strong system-wide ridership would be, have it not for Bee line buses crossing into city territory..... As if 100% of their routes are utilized by Westchester patrons... FOH....

 

...But yet, don't someone dare suggest extending an NYC route into Westchester county....

Quite sure someone would bring up the classic *stealing our riders* line....

 

Here's a post of his I remember quite vividly:

"No....not running a service for NYC residents."

 

The both of you are in agreement in your message/viewpoint - the only difference is what side of the county line the perspective is being given on......

 

 

side note: god damn, that was back in '08... wtf????

[Turbo19]

Thanks for the answer about Bellerose! That clears things up a bit. But I still wonder about the location of the LIRR station there... it still seems a bit off to me.

It's haphazard for sure, but it does an adequate purpose of serving the local residents.

[Q67 via Borden]

If and when the NYCT and MTAB merger is completed.  How should the Express Routes be unified. 

 

A - assume MTAB standards, (BM, QM, BxM, SM???) 

 

B - assume NYCT standards, (X) - There would have to be 3 digit X routes to fit all the MTAB routes into this standard. 

 

VOTE!

 

MTAB. Some people may be confused on which borough an express bus goes to if it only has an X. Ex. The X17 could be called the SM17 or the X1 the SM1 or the X63 the QM63 and so on.....

[Vistausss]

We've already discussed why using 'SM' is not a good idea...

[bobtehpanda]

I don't get the sense that LIJ hospital is used as a park & ride for the express bus.... The only other stop (other than inside NST obviously) is the union tpke/lakeville rd stop in that immediate area of Queens, which isn't a highly used stop at all....

 

As someone familiar with LIJ, they barely have enough parking spaces for their own workers. All of Lakeville Rd and Marcus around the hosptial is basically LIJ parking lots. (I'm actually surprised the hospital doesn't end up buying transit passes and running shuttle buses from LIRR stations for employees, because I imagine they're spending fortunes on building new parking garages all the time. Then again, they have the financial means to do so, so whatever floats their boat.)

 

As for Long Islanders, they probably wouldn't be caught dead on an express bus. There are two types of transit riders in Long Island - LIRR riders, and NICE+subway riders. The latter is doing it because peak fares and crowding is ridiculous (and it really is; it's a shame they shelved the third-track project, because that would've solved a lot of problems if it opened at the same time as East Side Access). The former thinks the city is some super ghetto full of rude disgusting people, but then they take up the three-seaters with their bags and do their nail polish on the train like it's their own house...

[Vistausss]

Uhm, bob, don't forget the students of Hofstra and NCC. An awful lot of them also take NICE and most of 'em just for the reason that they are students with limited money to spend so no LIRR.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You'll still get your seat on the BxM1/BxM2.

Heh... I was on the BxM2 yesterday coming back to Riverdale and when I got on that bus was almost SRO.  The buses have been much more crowded as of late, which is why I've been switching buses so I have room to breathe. The BxM1's of late have been semi sardine cans.

 

Doubt it.... Highly doubt it.

 

I don't get the sense that LIJ hospital is used as a park & ride for the express bus.... The only other stop (other than inside NST obviously) is the union tpke/lakeville rd stop in that immediate area of Queens, which isn't a highly used stop at all....

 

I'll say this much... there are easily more westchester folks using the riverdale expresses than there are LI-ers using the Queens expresses.... The only express route I think garners (few) usage from LI-ers are those that park over there by the Q30 terminal (LNP/HHE) for the QM5 or the QM8 (the QM3 runs [hell, begins] in that immediate area also, but QM3's don't start seeing pax like that until it hits northern)....

 

But the QM6, I don't think LI-ers utilize that route.....

 

What you say here is reminiscent of a dude that used to post on Rider Diaries/Straphangers named "Dadbo46"; supposed to have been some higher-up with Liberty Lines....

 

He was QUICK to say that Bee line buses don't exist to serve city riders (which is simply flat out bullshit), esp. whenever folks would suggest that Bee line should serve more of the Bronx..... Don't get me wrong, I still think Bee Line is on the ball with the way they run things, but let's see how strong system-wide ridership would be, have it not for Bee line buses crossing into city territory..... As if 100% of their routes are utilized by Westchester patrons... FOH....

 

...But yet, don't someone dare suggest extending an NYC route into Westchester county....

Quite sure someone would bring up the classic *stealing our riders* line....

 

Here's a post of his I remember quite vividly:

"No....not running a service for NYC residents."

 

The both of you are in agreement in your message/viewpoint - the only difference is what side of the county line the perspective is being given on......

 

 

side note: god damn, that was back in '08... wtf????

You'll love this one... I had a long weekend and stayed in Riverdale so my Metrocard ran out.  I decided to walk through Fieldston and over to 242nd for an unlimited yesterday, then walked up to 246th and got the BxM3 there to the city.  Seems like most of the folks that were already on the bus got on the Yonkers.  Didn't look like Riverdale types.  I was the only one at 246th and then from there nothing but females got on in the Bronx.  I was amazed at how different the vibe was on that bus compared to the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18.  Out of the three, I'd say the BxM1 is the snobbiest of them all by far.

 

[bobtehpanda]

Uhm, bob, don't forget the students of Hofstra and NCC. An awful lot of them also take NICE and most of 'em just for the reason that they are students with limited money to spend so no LIRR.

 

Well, I said people who do NICE+subway do it because the peak fares are ridiculous and the trains are crowded.

 

(Though, specifically I don't think students from either of those universities/colleges see a lot of city students - the big city magnet on the Island is SBU, which is all the way in Suffolk.)

[B35 via Church]

You'll love this one... I had a long weekend and stayed in Riverdale so my Metrocard ran out.  I decided to walk through Fieldston and over to 242nd for an unlimited yesterday, then walked up to 246th and got the BxM3 there to the city.  Seems like most of the folks that were already on the bus got on the Yonkers.  Didn't look like Riverdale types.  I was the only one at 246th and then from there nothing but females got on in the Bronx.  I was amazed at how different the vibe was on that bus compared to the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18.  Out of the three, I'd say the BxM1 is the snobbiest of them all by far.

The BxM3 is pretty weak in Westchester (Yonkers), so I doubt most the folks on that bus were Westchester patrons.... I'm thinking they were upper riverdalians.... Those first couple stops on the BxM3 south of the city line do tend to pick up quite a bit; the exact opposite of the BxM1/2/18 where usage in (that part of) upper riverdale is questionable/lacking/not all that potent.....

 

I actually think there are more Westchester folks that ride 1's/2's/18's than those that ride the 3 - and the 3 enters Westchester..... Go figure.

 

Oh yeah, the "feel" of the BxM3 is different from the BxM1/2/18; can't really describe it.... As far as which of the 3 routes (Bxm1/2/18) is the snobbiest, it is the BxM1 AINEC (and it's not even close); don't even have to hesitate about that.... I guess you would have to be more of a snob if you worked in some office bldg. or whatever in the UES, compared to that of the UWS.....

 

How much of those females that boarded got the "special treatment" (boarding for free, etc.) ?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BxM3 is pretty weak in Westchester (Yonkers), so I doubt most the folks on that bus were Westchester patrons.... I'm thinking they were upper riverdalians.... Those first couple stops on the BxM3 south of the city line do tend to pick up quite a bit; the exact opposite of the BxM1/2/18 where usage in (that part of) upper riverdale is questionable/lacking/not all that potent.....

 

I actually think there are more Westchester folks that ride 1's/2's/18's than those that ride the 3 - and the 3 enters Westchester..... Go figure.

 

Oh yeah, the "feel" of the BxM3 is different from the BxM1/2/18; can't really describe it.... As far as which of the 3 routes (Bxm1/2/18) is the snobbiest, it is the BxM1 AINEC (and it's not even close); don't even have to hesitate about that.... I guess you would have to be more of a snob if you worked in some office bldg. or whatever in the UES, compared to that of the UWS.....

 

How much of those females that boarded got the "special treatment" (boarding for free, etc.) ?

lol... I think all of them paid on the BxM3... For whatever reason, the BxM3 seems much longer... It makes more stops in the Bronx that's for sure.  What I found interesting was there were no white females at all on the BxM3.  All blacks with some Latinas thrown in.  There was only one male on the bus besides me and he was a black guy.

 

lol... As for the BxM1... It's the snobbiness of the UES folks, then the snobs along 57th and then snobs that work near Park like myself, so basically all the way down to 50th I'd say it's ubber snobby.  After that there aren't too many people left.  The BxM2 is not too snobby though the Mount Sinai folks can be snobby.  I find the Riverdale bound BxM2's more snobbier than the morning buses. The BxM18 is probably the most tolerable out of the 3 maybe because you have the Midtown folks mixed in with the Downtown folks, but I do notice a certain vibe against the Midtown folks that get off at 56th and 42nd... 

[Vistausss]

Come to think of it (due to VG8 mentioning 'SRO'): I wonder, on express buses, are you allowed to stand? Because they are essentially coach buses so I'm not sure about the rules when it comes to standing.